Turtle WoW

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=5658

The raise of the debuff limit from 16 to 24 has done one thing for 40man raiding: allowed a single shadow priest to join raids. The rest have been taken up by the last remaining raidwide DPS-up debuffs, like Gift of Arthas, arcanite dragonling...

What this raise has not allowed:
Crusader Strike, Consecration from Rets and prots
Holy fire from smite priests
Multiple other spriests
Shocks and stormstrike from shamans
Mortal strike, rend from arms
Dot based affliction and fire destro warlocks
Bleeds from feral cats
Bleeds and dot poisons from rogues
Dots from moonkin
Dots from hunters and their pets
Starshards and devo plague racials

Basically, all of the 1.12 meta builds are doing just fine and maybe even better, but only 1 of 40 people gets to play what used to be a meme. The rest are all heavily restricted from doing their full potential dps.

Remove the debuff limit, set it to 100 or 200 or something that will never be reached.

If the dev team is worried about power creep from this, do not worry, the meta builds won't gain anything else from extra debuff slots, with 24 we are currently putting up everything left for meta boosting buffs. Increasing the limit further... now there becomes room for selfish debuffs that dot classes/specs need for better DPS and/or DPM. Meme specs and alternate playstyles are buffed and instantly become vastly more interesting to play. The memes were not brought to raid before, but hopefully in the future they will be, and will end up the same dps as what would have been in their slot before. No power creep here.

If the dev team is worried about the UI not displaying every debuff, consider that both blizz' Season of mastery and the Vanilla+ server have made this exact change, and the UI only shows 16 debuffs. Literally nobody on those servers, cares about that problem, it's a complete nonissue.

Remove the limit, dont let the memes be dreams.

Agreed. Having the debuff limit it severely hampering people from playing the specs they enjoy, as well as pigeon-holing them into playing those they don't because it's the meta. Remove the debuff limit, find a way to make it so that only your debuffs show up on the target along with a few others.

agree

Agreed, sucks ass to have all this buffs and still be bent by debuff cap that is an outdated and crappy limitation.
Let everyone raid and bring more variety!!

I support this message.

The debuff limit was a technical limitation, not a balance one as stated by multiple original WoW devs.

Yes, please do this.

+1

I have re-opened this discussion with the team internally. I cannot promise anything, but do know we are talking about it :)

Also in support of this, its a strict upgrade to raiding QoL, eliminating the debuff discussion and allows people more freedom to play their specs. The priority debuffs that people use are already optimal for DPS, anything else that gets applied to the boss is minute in effect

Akalix wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:15 pm

I have re-opened this discussion with the team internally. I cannot promise anything, but do know we are talking about it :)

thanks man. make sure y'all guys make the correct choice. there is 0 excuse for any limit to debuffs to remain. have any dissenters duke it out with us in this forum post and we (everyone that has raided on this server and therefore fully understands the limit is beyond stupid) will convince them why they are wrong. thanks

I 100% agree with this, not being able to use poisons/bleeds as a rogue in raids, would be so sad.

agree

Hard agree of course. The original limitation of 8 (later 16) debuffs was dictated only by engine limitations and was never a design decision. Meanwhile the very design of various specs (spriest, aff lock, fdruid etc.) that is heavily based on debuff/dot application becomes total nonsense, considering a player actually can't use them in the only content where dps matters - raids. At the same time the exact same specs perform worse than meta specs - devs could never buff them without completely destroying the PvP balance, where dots work just fine.

The 24 buff limit already allows every raid-wide debuff to ever exist to be applied at the same time. Like others already said, normal players are meanwhile still locked out of their rotations.

100% support.

100% behind this idea. Debuff limit was an admitted technical limitation at the time and should be changed higher than 24.

Do it!

+1

100% agreed

+

+

Absolutely agree. +

daily + until fixed

i think 40 debuffs would be perfect, basicly 1 slot for every person in a 40 man raid grp (and we all know that some specs take more than 1 and some dont take a slot at all)

Meepingmeeps wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:58 am

Remove the debuff limit, find a way to make it so that only your debuffs show up on the target along with a few others.

+1

A toggle in the setting to switch between only your and all debuffs would be cool though

+1

Nobody likes having his potential dps impossible to reach because of a mechanic that nobody likes!

+1

Contributing an additional +
For the cause

+1

+1 for the DoT gang

100% support this!

+1

Just. DO IT!
+1

Agree please up the debuff so we can actually play classes and get into raids. I've never understood the whole design a class yet you can't play it due to terrible game design (or game limits at the time). There is no reason not to up it.

Couldn't agree more! Give this to us.

+1