Armored Azure Drake and other dragons...

[Whalemilk]

Invincible

[Racczull]

Why not offer a one-time token, where you can go to an NPC and use the token as currency to pick one of the three mounts?

I mean, the current vote count is pretty split.

Agreed. This was the base of my suggestion on the other thread, as well.

But if there's something to do with technical limitations that prevents that, somehow, and we have to pick one, I'd say stick to the horse. Not a fan of the TBC-themed mounts.

Agreed, please let us choose.

[Gheor]

Invincible

Why would you want a mount you can't see.

[Grandyman]

No! Not the warpstalker. Did we not learn with TBC Classic?

[Zulnam]

Why just one? Why not have a vendor for these mounts, when a HC character gets to 60 they get one special coil (soulbound) and they can go get whichever they want.

Some would look better/make more sense for horde, others for alliance.

[Dean]

Greetings!

This is a continuation of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3472

We apologize that it took so long to initiate a voting on this matter, we've been quite busy with post-release issues of our recent patch.

Please, keep in mind, that the majority of suggested mounts are technically either impossible or very hard to port to the Vanilla client, but we've picked a few of the suggestions and now are asking you to decide which of those you'd like to keep as a Hardcore Challenge reward!

Immortal Champion's Charger (current mount)



Mysterious Warp Stalker



Brave Adventurer's Talbuk



Thank you!

This is quite a short list but I understand the limitations in place and you guys have tried your best, thank you Torta.

Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t those two new choices from TBC? If so, are you sure these won’t conflict with any future plans? It would suck to have our mount taken away a second time.

[Nemaoc]

imo choices arent that good, if i had to choose one its the warp stalker. id like the core hound mount if they can pull it off

[Redrave23]

Really I would just want to see the mount be something unique. Sadly the Deathcharger is just another variant of so many mounts as is. If the Talbuk would be the only Talbuk mount i would say that. Otherwise the only unique mount would be the warpstalker which i personally would never use because its so out of place. Wish porting over was a more simple task. Great job either way, love the server and work put into it.

[Exizefra]

I still think that the Drake Turtles is the best choice...but i undestand the difficulties with adding that on vanilla. From all of suggested mounts i still prefer an Azure Drake. Because it looks massive (and i think it should be massive first of all, cuz it's just cool) and kinda brutal - perfect for those who beat such a hard challenge. From this 3 mounts i prefer the Warp Stalker - cuz of it's kinda fel-corrupted look (and that's is not a horse - there is really too many of them, and, as for me, the undead and warlock horses are looks better, so the Charger makes no unique feeling), but if there is any more options, just any, i'd gladly vote for it (like, i don't know...take a Brewfest Kodo and reskin it to red, scarred and demonic and/or metallic, like the Chaos orcs - i think, that's an option :D. Or take an Azure Drake and reskin it like undead or fel/void creature - that's an option too).

[Faustorgo]

+1

[Faustorgo]

Agree with Pacmage, or maybe a seasonalmount reward could work, un the mean time they can add or create anothers kin of mounts, but for god sake, anything beside the UNDEAD lame horse, even the OLD Invencible Horse looks way better n pixels.

P.D: Sorry for double posting :)

[Libur]

I agree with Pacmage, no matter what you choose currently nearly 2/3rds of the voters are going to be disappointed. A one use token definitely seems to be the best way to go.

[Dean]

I agree with Pacmage, no matter what you choose currently nearly 2/3rds of the voters are going to be disappointed. A one use token definitely seems to be the best way to go.

The main issue with this idea is that you would be effectively locking away three mounts and the Turtle WoW Staff are already limited on how many mounts they have in game and cannot find someone who can do 3D modelling for them so these mounts have to be rationed for other challenges they may have planned in the future.

[Nekrogrela52]

What about Vicious War Turtle for hardcore mount that goes with Turtle theme!!! More Turtles!!!!!

[Myrkul]

I'll be quite honest and my intention isn't to attack anyone but all three options are awful when compared to the drake, they're just ugly. Either give players donation points or come up with more creative rewards because right now HC doesn't even feel like worth doing, with S&S being way more rewarding while also infinitely easier.

[Kerenis]

IMO none of the rewards for HC are on par withthe effort required.

S&S rewards are more appealing. Why not give Immortals a token to buy any Shop mount?

[Nokidding]

I really don’t like any of the options

[Ramue]

Full honest opinion about this. And I am gonna be tough because I loved turtle wow.
This will be my first writing to turtle/forum in which I am actually mad, but I hope it will be constructive regardless of my more harsh than usual tone.

But turtle hasn't mentioned at all about the drake coming back for those who want it.
Their silence on the drake speaks volumes but it is what it is so I will be acting accordingly in my response.
I wrote my thoughts on this before, I don't like it but what ticks me off right now is thus, the biggest reason why the drake was removed was it was a clunky mount that didn't fit in with the world.
So it really rubs salt in the wounds of players who either liked the drake or like myself just really hate having things we earned taken away from us they went ahead and added a warp stalker to the list of possible replacements?
A mount that is just as big and clunky and just as out of place as any other giant reptile mount can be?
Like look at the elf for scale, the warp stalker is HUGE.
How would trading the drake for the warp stalker achieve the goals turtle had in removing the drake in the first place? other than the fact the stalker doesn't have wings for my "no creatures with wings that could possibly ever fly can exist in this version of world of warcraft" immersion.

This whole thing has been a whole cluster F of turtle's own making and it is the players that get to bear the burden of it, and that is just beyond silly.

I have been a big turtle fan girl for nearly 3 years now, and this whole situation with this mount and turtle showing their willingness to take things away from players has killed my enthusiasm for the server and my play time has dipped drastically because I can't find the will to care about a server that will take trophies players earned away from them.
I don't care how out of place or how "immersion breaking" the drake was, removing it was a bad move and the fact that another mount that has nearly as many problems as the drake did is considered for it's replacement is just beyond frustrating and defeating.

I hope none of this is taken personally, this is coming from a place of deep frustration with a server I used to be so in love with.
Despite the business side of your life if anyone from turtle reads this I hope the rest of your day on a personal level is great.

[Torta]

But turtle hasn't mentioned at all about the drake coming back for those who want it.

The spell was removed from the client altogether in 1.16.1, however, we'll add it back in 1.16.4 if the decision will be in favor of letting old HC to claim it back. Currently, it's impossible to restore, even if we wanted to.

We also do not enjoy this situation. The drake had to go, it was too much for Vanilla. However, it seems like there'll be no agreement on a single mount unless it's a super-shiny spectral something we cannot even port in the game. Locking three mounts away for HC alone won't happen, I'm sorry due to the low amount of mounts available in-game at all.

The warp stalker is much smaller than the drake.

The attempt will be made to add a drake turtle, however, no promises it'll even work.

[Torta]

I'm going to dismiss this voting due to overall negative feedback about all three options and merge this thread with the previous one. Currently, we have no solution that would satisfy everyone.

[Magina]

Full honest opinion about this. And I am gonna be tough because I loved turtle wow.
<snip>

This is very good and concise feedback, and I really hope that any devs that read it will take it to heart and not just dismiss it as 'negativity'.

In my opinion, this entire problem has been conjured out of nothing. There's been given a lot of half thought excuses for why the dragon had to go, when it seems pretty obvious that the core issue is that certain devs just plain didn't like it.

[Torta]

In my opinion, this entire problem has been conjured out of nothing. There's been given a lot of half thought excuses for why the dragon had to go, when it seems pretty obvious that the core issue is that certain devs just plain didn't like it.

Please don't come up with misinformation. We have decided to remove drake because it's too big for gameplay without flying mounts, they stand out too much due to their size. Seeing too many of those drakes in the world forced us to reconsider our first choice of this reward.

[Thecakeisalie]

Seeing too many of those drakes in the world forced us to reconsider our first choice of this reward.

I never experienced this "problem" my self, there are currently ~40,000 (active) characters on the servers according to https://turtle-census.org/faction-balance, and out of those 615 have achieved immortality https://armory.turtle-wow.org/hardcore/.

That would result in ~1.5% of all characters having the mount, and it previously also required epic riding (which was recently removed) that would have further reduce the number of players that could ride it.

So a very small portion of the playerbase could ride it, and in my experience I only saw maybe one idling in SW from time to time.

[Unvictorahi]

To be honest I'll be happy with whatever mount you people choose because I know I'll end up using the frostsaber from Winterspring :P

[Darkraggs]

A number of my close friends all did Hardcore for the drake mount, on a server that has custom crafted mech mounts, has an NPC that sells a drake mount for a few thousand gold with Exalted rep from a custom dungeon, and on the donation shop sells hippogryphs, flying machine mounts, and a mount that is straight up a cloud from Whimsyshire in Diablo 3. The plethora of other exotic mounts already along with cash shop illusions that the majority of owners use because it makes them stand out from other players and NOT for RP that can “break people’s immersion” in Turtle WoW completely invalidates that argument for removing the drake in my book. I don’t even have any immortal characters, but I’ve been upset about this for my friends. The current HC mount is also supposed to be a World Boss drop, so the rarity of that mount has absolutely plummeted and butchered a number of people’s interest in getting the mount from that world boss.

I might be misinformed, but outright removing the blue drake mount from the client goes against my understanding of the precedent set by Slow & Steady mode having its rewards changed over time for new characters that level up with that challenge rather than replaced for everyone that has ever done the challenge. How many people still play that have the High Elf illusion? I can count maybe three people that got that illusion back in the day from S&S that I’ve come across that still play. Over time, the amount of old immortals that would have the drake in the server would diminish if the reward for immortals was changed to a new mount for just new immortals going forward, and would give old immortal players a reason to make another Hardcore character to collect the new mount if they wanted it. That said, please don’t do seasonal crap that most other games these days do, just adjust future rewards as needed.

I would like to see the drake restored for old hardcore players, and the reward for new immortals to be a different mount. The Talbuk mounts would be fine since the design is similar to the vanilla ram/horse mounts. Warp Stalker feels too exotic compared to the other mounts that are from Azeroth so I would not want them as an Immortal reward. Corrupted Hippogryph from the TCG would work if it’s not on the shop already. The spectral mounts except the tigers would be fine. If another horse mount is to be added, there’s the Headless Horsemen mount that could work, the DK class horse or the crimson version since it’s unlikely Turtle will ever have DKs, the Ghostly Charger, and there’s also maybe the Thalassian Warhorse/Charger if that’s not on the cash shop already or planned for Scarlet Citadel. The Ultramarine Qiraji Battle Tank would be cool if it also worked inside of AQ40. If the devs were fine with importing turtle mounts, the Arcadian War Turtle mount would be really cool and reinforce the turtle theme despite how high res it is compared to vanilla/TBC mounts, along with the Alliance Vicious War Turtle mount if whoever is handling the mount assets is willing to remove the alliance emblems on the shields since the rest of the mount doesn’t look faction specific.

[Versidue]

For what it's worth, I really liked the warp stalker and was lowkey starting to get excited for it since it seemed to be in the lead... It's very exotic and otherworldly, I feel like it definitely has the potential to tie in well with whatever the karazshan quests are. It would be fun to see.

I can't help but wonder if the overall negativity for the mounts was worsened by the loss of the Azure Drake. Would the results have been more positive if there had been a mention of an option to restore it for people who had earned it on the voting page?

I also don't think it's completely fair to dismiss all the feedback as negative. How many people voted without making a post on the forums, because they were happy with the options and didn't feel a need to say anything more? And related, how many hardcore players weren't aware there was a vote at all? Most people in Still Alive didn't seem to know about it

I also... personally really dislike the dragon turtle XD
It's very clunky and kind of ugly imo...

[Dean]

In my opinion, this entire problem has been conjured out of nothing. There's been given a lot of half thought excuses for why the dragon had to go, when it seems pretty obvious that the core issue is that certain devs just plain didn't like it.

Please don't come up with misinformation. We have decided to remove drake because it's too big for gameplay without flying mounts, they stand out too much due to their size. Seeing too many of those drakes in the world forced us to reconsider our first choice of this reward.

To be honest with you Torta, until the team can provide a mount or create a mount that will make the majority of players happy, it is best to change the mount back to the drake for now to give yourselves more time to find a solution. There are only 621 players that are Immortal right now as of 2022/09/05.

Perhaps one solution is to make it so the first 1000 players to reach immortality gain the mount, after that you can change it to a different mount for every 1000 players that achieve immortality.

This way this rewards early adopters of the server, gives time for the players who are here now to get the drake and limits the amount of potential drakes that could cause problems, especially if some of those immortal players no longer play the game.

[Allknighty]

Playing a pally, I don't find the fiery warhorse ok with the lore of my class.

At least a blue drake can "ally" any character he wants.

Or, as someone said it above, a mount that would match the race of the characte or the shop solution, the player would choose the one he prefers.

For the "flying" argument, I don't think it works since there's an hippogryph in the turtle shop. ;)


For the immersion argument... you have magic clouds as mounts! :/

To be honest, I started the HC challenge thinking I would get that mount at the end...

[Mmoo]

A number of my close friends all did Hardcore for the drake mount, on a server that has custom crafted mech mounts, has an NPC that sells a drake mount for a few thousand gold with Exalted rep from a custom dungeon, and on the donation shop sells hippogryphs, flying machine mounts, and a mount that is straight up a cloud from Whimsyshire in Diablo 3. The plethora of other exotic mounts already along with cash shop illusions that the majority of owners use because it makes them stand out from other players and NOT for RP that can “break people’s immersion” in Turtle WoW completely invalidates that argument for removing the drake in my book. I don’t even have any immortal characters, but I’ve been upset about this for my friends. The current HC mount is also supposed to be a World Boss drop, so the rarity of that mount has absolutely plummeted and butchered a number of people’s interest in getting the mount from that world boss.

I might be misinformed, but outright removing the blue drake mount from the client goes against my understanding of the precedent set by Slow & Steady mode having its rewards changed over time for new characters that level up with that challenge rather than replaced for everyone that has ever done the challenge. How many people still play that have the High Elf illusion? I can count maybe three people that got that illusion back in the day from S&S that I’ve come across that still play. Over time, the amount of old immortals that would have the drake in the server would diminish if the reward for immortals was changed to a new mount for just new immortals going forward, and would give old immortal players a reason to make another Hardcore character to collect the new mount if they wanted it. That said, please don’t do seasonal crap that most other games these days do, just adjust future rewards as needed.

I would like to see the drake restored for old hardcore players, and the reward for new immortals to be a different mount. The Talbuk mounts would be fine since the design is similar to the vanilla ram/horse mounts. Warp Stalker feels too exotic compared to the other mounts that are from Azeroth so I would not want them as an Immortal reward. Corrupted Hippogryph from the TCG would work if it’s not on the shop already. The spectral mounts except the tigers would be fine. If another horse mount is to be added, there’s the Headless Horsemen mount that could work, the DK class horse or the crimson version since it’s unlikely Turtle will ever have DKs, the Ghostly Charger, and there’s also maybe the Thalassian Warhorse/Charger if that’s not on the cash shop already or planned for Scarlet Citadel. The Ultramarine Qiraji Battle Tank would be cool if it also worked inside of AQ40. If the devs were fine with importing turtle mounts, the Arcadian War Turtle mount would be really cool and reinforce the turtle theme despite how high res it is compared to vanilla/TBC mounts, along with the Alliance Vicious War Turtle mount if whoever is handling the mount assets is willing to remove the alliance emblems on the shields since the rest of the mount doesn’t look faction specific.

Completely agree with this. Restoring the drake mount for people who have earned it fair and square and let time do its work. It will be more and more seldomly seen as time goes on.

[Fizzeek]

I'm sad I lost my drake :/

Perhaps one solution is to make it so the first 1000 players to reach immortality gain the mount, after that you can change it to a different mount for every 1000 players that achieve immortality.

I like this idea.

[Duvel]

A number of my close friends all did Hardcore for the drake mount, on a server that has custom crafted mech mounts, has an NPC that sells a drake mount for a few thousand gold with Exalted rep from a custom dungeon, and on the donation shop sells hippogryphs, flying machine mounts, and a mount that is straight up a cloud from Whimsyshire in Diablo 3. The plethora of other exotic mounts already along with cash shop illusions that the majority of owners use because it makes them stand out from other players and NOT for RP that can “break people’s immersion” in Turtle WoW completely invalidates that argument for removing the drake in my book. I don’t even have any immortal characters, but I’ve been upset about this for my friends. The current HC mount is also supposed to be a World Boss drop, so the rarity of that mount has absolutely plummeted and butchered a number of people’s interest in getting the mount from that world boss.

I might be misinformed, but outright removing the blue drake mount from the client goes against my understanding of the precedent set by Slow & Steady mode having its rewards changed over time for new characters that level up with that challenge rather than replaced for everyone that has ever done the challenge. How many people still play that have the High Elf illusion? I can count maybe three people that got that illusion back in the day from S&S that I’ve come across that still play. Over time, the amount of old immortals that would have the drake in the server would diminish if the reward for immortals was changed to a new mount for just new immortals going forward, and would give old immortal players a reason to make another Hardcore character to collect the new mount if they wanted it. That said, please don’t do seasonal crap that most other games these days do, just adjust future rewards as needed.

I would like to see the drake restored for old hardcore players, and the reward for new immortals to be a different mount. The Talbuk mounts would be fine since the design is similar to the vanilla ram/horse mounts. Warp Stalker feels too exotic compared to the other mounts that are from Azeroth so I would not want them as an Immortal reward. Corrupted Hippogryph from the TCG would work if it’s not on the shop already. The spectral mounts except the tigers would be fine. If another horse mount is to be added, there’s the Headless Horsemen mount that could work, the DK class horse or the crimson version since it’s unlikely Turtle will ever have DKs, the Ghostly Charger, and there’s also maybe the Thalassian Warhorse/Charger if that’s not on the cash shop already or planned for Scarlet Citadel. The Ultramarine Qiraji Battle Tank would be cool if it also worked inside of AQ40. If the devs were fine with importing turtle mounts, the Arcadian War Turtle mount would be really cool and reinforce the turtle theme despite how high res it is compared to vanilla/TBC mounts, along with the Alliance Vicious War Turtle mount if whoever is handling the mount assets is willing to remove the alliance emblems on the shields since the rest of the mount doesn’t look faction specific.

THIS!

Also, here are my 3 pences:

1. I HATE the new mount with a passion. I am not a f*** warlock !!! Also male night elves look absolutely dumb on a horse, and will look dumb on anything that is close to it ! Should be even worst for Taurens I guess.

2. The 3 proposals on the poll are lame and I don't even want to vote for one. I want my drake back or something that is close to it, which means a BIG beast.

3. Its unfair for HC players that did the challenge for the drake mount. You find that there are too much of them: that is not true IMO. It will be true in one year when we will be 2000 Immortals. Then the only acceptable solution is to change the mount for new HC players and let it to the first batch of us that did it for the drake mount.

Given its growing popularity, your server is there to stay for years. I find it very cool to have a distinction for the first brave immortals that did the challenge, when we were 1000 max connected and overall before the class update that make it easier for most classes.
Its also worth to say that the upcoming new immortals will not have to pay 900 gold to ride their mount while we had to do it !!! And given the fact that my HC was my very first char on the server, I was poor and unstuffed, and grinding 900gold was hell.
New immortals will have easier to complete the challenge because there are more people to group with, because their class is stronger, and at the end they will have the luxury to ride their mount as soon as they hit 60 !
And veterans immortals have the same mounts than them while they proudly rode their drakes for months?...Too much unfairness here!

Metasploit

[Duvel]

The HC mount riding requirement will most likely be removed on the next server update :) Those who couldn't add the mount to their collection due to not having enough gold will be able to place it in their spellbooks.

Will you refund those that had to buy the epic skill while not having any other mount and have their drake stolen???

[Torta]

The HC mount riding requirement will most likely be removed on the next server update :) Those who couldn't add the mount to their collection due to not having enough gold will be able to place it in their spellbooks.

Will you refund those that had to buy the epic skill while not having any other mount and have their drake stolen???

You still need Riding Skill in general on level 60 to ride faster. The mounts will scale with the Riding skill, nothing is stolen from you. Right now it's simply possible to add HC mounts to the collection without the Riding Skill requirement, but they'll be slow without the skill.

[Fruitbat]

I'm very disappointed to find out that the High Elf I created and spent a great time investment getting to 60 in hardcore now looks different with no current way to change back and even worse the drake mount that I really liked has been taken away. Lost me as a customer.

[Versidue]

I'm very disappointed to find out that the High Elf I created and spent a great time investment getting to 60 in hardcore now looks different with no current way to change back and even worse the drake mount that I really liked has been taken away. Lost me as a customer.

There is actually a fix you can do to get the old high elf models back, refer to here
viewtopic.php?p=20467#p20467

(but also, you're not a customer XD this is a private server...)