Make dualspec machine viable to obtain for levelers

[Ugoboom]

The brainwashing device was a fantastic addition to the game, for those who don't know, it's a 350g item that allows for on the fly respecs, 2 specs being free. Currently, it's really really freed up lv 60 players to play all parts of the game on a whim. Great job adding it.

However, it's not viable to get as a fresh player, till 60, and it could solve a problem with modern vanilla leveling that this server too suffers from:

There's a common problem of difficulty finding a tank, sometimes healers, for dungeons while leveling, as most tank and healer players are in dps specs to make their leveling life easier, but do make dungeons a struggle. Yes they can pay 5g at the trainer then 5g back, but 10g is quite a hit to the budget even to a lv 50-59 player, and most would rather not do this, and thus groups form less than they would, more people stay leveling alone, and the game remains less social.

To fix this, I think the brainwashing device should be viable to obtain as a leveling player, yet still be expensive enough to be a big setback that wouldn't be taken by everyone. The amount of gold to obtain it at that moment, would scale with every level gained, but once obtained that one time purchase is complete.

To paint a rough picture of prices it could be at various levels:
10g at lv 15
40g at lv 35
200g at lv 50
350g at 60

These prices are designed to be a sizable chunk of change that is enough to disrupt the currently leveling meta and plans people have. This would mean that people who are interested in playing 2 specs (leveling and dungeon spec, or leveling and pvp spec) would have a very good reason to make money via professions, grinding, and even might turn off xp for a bit as they grind out their current level's gold requirement to buy it then. It would be enough money to be a sacrifice as they'd have to grind a lot, or forgo buying class abilities, or forgo getting their mount immediately at lv 40.

Ideally, this would be 3-5 hours of effort of pure grinding to make up the money for this purchase: 3-5 hours if done at lv 15, and 3-5 hours if done at lv 60. So yeah the gold values i proposed might need adjusting to make this goal.

With this, we'd see more people able to swap to tank and heal to improve the rate that dungeon groups actually form and complete, with less issues due to tanking healing or dpsing with improper specs, etc...

A problem with this suggestion, is that anyone with a main can just pay 10g to their lv 15 alt. but counterpoint, they can already twink out their toon and pay for 5g respecs already; sending gold to the alt is already altering that experience. easily allowing people's alts a more flexible and enjoyable alt leveling experience is a good call, I think.

[Zangatsu]

+Support

[Emmanamak]

Good suggestion. Even if any player with a 60 main can get it for their new alt, it would still encourage versatile play between solo and group content and be a positive impact on the server.

[Geojak]

Not needed, I got my brainwashing device at lvl 50 and felt really satisfied, like ab achievement.

IF the price changes by lvl, it just puts pressure on me to get it early or miss out. I strongly dislike such bechanics that actively punish you for getting levels (like transmog)

[Snakeman]

Agreeing with Geojak here - I love this idea in theory, but in practice I (as a current level 60 player) 100% would just send 10g to every new character I make to buy the respec machine early while it's cheap, and then at that point scaling it up to cost 350g (or 200 turtle coins) at level 60 just seems entirely pointless imo. I already feel bad I didn't farm Fashion Coins before I hit level 10 on my alts.

I don't know if it's strictly needed before 50-60, either way - given okayish gear especially you could heal as feral or tank as arms, etc. Respeccing might give a degree of comfort but unless you want to totally minmax it I don't really see an urgent need for it. I donated for the machine on my hunter, but I've only used it once in 42 levels because I wanted to be actually useful in a dungeon I was underlevelled for at the time (been levelling in PvP spec and used it to give the group Trueshot Aura) :d It'll see much more use when I hit level 60, so I can PvP and run raids whenever without scuffing my main spec or breaking the bank respeccing at the trainer... Which, again, is why I'd just buy it early on every new alt if the price scaled that way. :\

[Absolon]

one solution would be to have the respec machine be level restricted: when you hit lets say level 50, you need to pay the difference in gold (200 - 40) to upgrade your machine to be still useable for you, so in the end, everyone gets to pay 350g in total at level 60

[Qixel]

Just lower the cost. The players who paid real money didn't get refunded when it became available for gold. The players who spent 500g for the dual spec option didn't get refunded when it became a baseline feature of the machine. The players who spent 300g for the machine would not need to be refunded, either. Just make it cost however much gold and be done with it.

[Ugoboom]

Not needed, I got my brainwashing device at lvl 50 and felt really satisfied, like ab achievement.

IF the price changes by lvl, it just puts pressure on me to get it early or miss out. I strongly dislike such bechanics that actively punish you for getting levels (like transmog)

Do you see why I said, to balance the price so that to buy it, it would be 3-5 hours of farming, regardless of your level? So it would cost what a lv 15 can farm in 3-5 hours, or what a lv 50 can farm in 3-5 hours. There is no FOMO with an ideal implementation.

Agreeing with Geojak here - I love this idea in theory, but in practice I (as a current level 60 player) 100% would just send 10g to every new character I make to buy the respec machine early while it's cheap

Yes, I addressed that in the post. Why is it not okay to make things easier for when you level an alt? It's already smoother in that you're probably decking them out with 14 slot bags, maybe some gear.

I don't know if it's strictly needed before 50-60, either way - given okayish gear especially you could heal as feral or tank as arms, etc. Respeccing might give a degree of comfort but unless you want to totally minmax it I don't really see an urgent need for it. I donated for the machine on my hunter, but I've only used it once in 42 levels because I wanted to be actually useful in a dungeon I was underlevelled for at the time (been levelling in PvP spec and used it to give the group Trueshot Aura) :d It'll see much more use when I hit level 60, so I can PvP and run raids whenever without scuffing my main spec or breaking the bank respeccing at the trainer... Which, again, is why I'd just buy it early on every new alt if the price scaled that way. :\

Yes it's possible if you are more experienced with vanilla and know how to make up for the shortcomings of having the wrong spec. You're not the target audience for this, but instead new fresher players.

And yeah dps-only classes really have no need, like your hunter, so this isnt for you in this case. Maybe if you were a pvper and would want to bounce between pvp and pve specs. I already have a bug report in, being adressed, that will make leveling BGs and arenas far more viable.

one solution would be to have the respec machine be level restricted: when you hit lets say level 50, you need to pay the difference in gold (200 - 40) to upgrade your machine to be still useable for you, so in the end, everyone gets to pay 350g in total at level 60

I had this thought too, but these weird cutoffs are arbitrary. It might feel like the device exists to keep extorting you. Idk, would be weird.

[Geojak]

I think it's fine how it is. We need thaz 350 gold drain

No ah fees makes making gold already super easy

[Coun]

The problem with the costs scaling with your level is that you basically get punished for progressing (one of the common points of critique when it comes to transmog).

It's intended to be a lategame money sink and I think that's fine honestly. It's not really a requirement while leveling.

[Ugoboom]

The problem with the costs scaling with your level is that you basically get punished for progressing (one of the common points of critique when it comes to transmog).

It's intended to be a lategame money sink and I think that's fine honestly. It's not really a requirement while leveling.

Indeed its not a requirement, but it would help dungeon groups form more often and be less scuffed and painful when not set up ideally (a feral spec'd druid trying and struggling to heal SM Cath). Thats the root issue that I think needs solving

Hmmmm, maybe instead my suggestion should be, that we should scale the prices of respecs @ the trainers, with your level. Since yeah 5g is still quite a lot for lowbies, and if it was 50s for a lv 20 and 3g for a lv 40, people would be a lot more willing to make use of it.

[Seizethetaco]

People really put way too much value on talent trees while leveling. Gear is more important than talents for filling in an offspec role by a huge margin. If you can meet certain thresholds of whatever stat your role requires then your talent tree isn't going to stop you from being able to tank or heal. I play with a pally friend who is talented as holy but has filled all 3 roles as needed for dungeons. I have personally healed every dungeon in vanilla (non TWoW) as a spriest with no wipes. Yeah you have more downtime as an offspec healer or be slightly squishier as tank, but there are no talent issues filling the role. The main issue is the amount of people who simply want to dps with their warrior instead of just throwing on a sword & board and spamming sunder.

[Raukodor]

And what about make it binding on account? So just need buy 1 for all your characters

[Eielysele]

To paint a rough picture of prices it could be at various levels:
10g at lv 15
40g at lv 35
200g at lv 50
350g at 60

to refine this suggestion, the level breakpoints can be a temporary second spec:

10g at lvl 15 -> you can use dualspec til lvl 35
after this, u have to pay 35g to get back the dual spec etc.

[Ugoboom]

to refine this suggestion, the level breakpoints can be a temporary second spec:

10g at lvl 15 -> you can use dualspec til lvl 35
after this, u have to pay 35g to get back the dual spec etc.

Yeah this isnt a bad idea either, over time investments can be more palatable as an option for players.

[Markuis]

I agree. We need more tanks!

[Velite]

Something something... "Your leveling choices should matter, making you have multiple specs is wraaaaaath"..."gOtO rEtAiL" /s

[Shiznaught]

Tanking while leveling:

If any of the myriad warriors, regardless of spec, cannot throw on a shield and tank a dungeon, then that is a player skill issue and more likely a player choice to specifically only DPS.

I say this as someone who leveled a Fury in vanilla, and who has leveled countless tanks since including a full prot here. There are no tools outside of the baseline class that prevents you from holding agro and tanking as a warrior in 1-59 five man dungeons. It's easier now than ever with TC in Def Stance.

And there are a lot of warriors leveling.

As for healers, YMMV but certainly before 30 any class that can heal should be able to. Again, it has less to do with spec and more to do with gear and role acceptance.

[Ishilu]

Tanking while leveling:

If any of the myriad warriors, regardless of spec, cannot throw on a shield and tank a dungeon, then that is a player skill issue and more likely a player choice to specifically only DPS.

I say this as someone who leveled a Fury in vanilla, and who has leveled countless tanks since including a full prot here. There are no tools outside of the baseline class that prevents you from holding agro and tanking as a warrior in 1-59 five man dungeons. It's easier now than ever with TC in Def Stance.

Totally agree. Likewise, paladins and enhancers can easily swap out a shield and start tanking. Just make sure to keep some appropriate gear. Nothing cringier than leveling warriors whining about missing tanks.

Same goes for all potential healers. Only thing is that enhancer shamans, feral druids etc need to keep some heal gear on the bank for their dungeon runs.

[Forumaccount66]

I think for hc it should be cheaper. Imho 10g on 15lvl for hc is to much. Maybe respec item for hc for 1g usable only on levels 15-59?

It would definitely help with lack of healers and tanks for dungeons.

And maybe you have to upgrade for some amount of gold every 10lvls or something.

[Markuis]

Totally agree. Likewise, paladins and enhancers can easily swap out a shield and start tanking. Just make sure to keep some appropriate gear. Nothing cringier than leveling warriors whining about missing tanks.

Same goes for all potential healers. Only thing is that enhancer shamans, feral druids etc need to keep some heal gear on the bank for their dungeon runs.

As if inventory space isn't a problem already

This would alleviate the lack of healers/tanks. I consider tanking and healing (but mostly tanking) to be way harder that being dps. You have to keep aggro, know the dungeon's map and the boss mechanics, the pulls, keeping the pace of the group... I wouldn't deny those tanks (the new ones, mostly) the talent change. Maybe an experienced one can go fury and tank without worrying, but it may be enough to keep some others from tanking.

So give them the tools they need. Let not be the talents what keeps them from tanking. Yes, it may be a player issue, which doesn't mean it should be automatically ignored.

[Arraris]

I'm going to strongly disagree with this.

The only thing stopping a warrior or feral druid from tanking is the mindset, and a resto/boomkim can easily do it with some gear. They already have everything in their kit to tank perfectly well provided to them - regardless of spec. Paladins are the only one who struggle to tank without specific talents (Imp RF, Imp SoJ), but a Ret Pally easily can tank as long as his group listens to instructions and only focus target.

Similarly, any Paladin, Priest, Druid or Shaman can heal. I'm a 36 Prot Pally, and healed SM Arm/Cath just fine last night after popping on a healing weapon and a handful of int pieces I keep in the bank. Cleared both dungeons in less than 90 mins, no wipes.

The problem isn't the spec, it's just that people don't want to tank or heal. Making dual-spec more easily available won't change that at all.

And let's be fair - for the raiding environment there is no shortage of tanks. At the endgame, the existence of the dual spec machine is more to allow tanks/healers to have a dps/pvp spec than anything else.

[Shamma]

I think for hc it should be cheaper. Imho 10g on 15lvl for hc is to much. Maybe respec item for hc for 1g usable only on levels 15-59?

It would definitely help with lack of healers and tanks for dungeons.

And maybe you have to upgrade for some amount of gold every 10lvls or something.

Do you really believe this will solve tank/healer shortage in HC dungeons?

There is tank/healer shortage in all dungeons, but in HC so many ppl do not want to risk it, not only for themselves, but others as well.

This will not solve it! And the only place this is needed is for ppl who want to pvp and raid and for some reason think 5g (massively cheaper than classic) is too much.