Outlaw Glyph!

[Pogopogo]

Hello TurtleWoW Devs and TurtleWoW Community! We gits over at <Blacktooth Grin> have been having a ton of fun making base here on the turtle mul. The warm reception we've received from the community has truly been shocking, and we can't wait to keep bringing you all the gift of war with our RP and PvP activities. There has been a suggestion getting passed around for the last few weeks that I wanted to field publically.

*Drumroll*

Outlaw Glyph

-Purchasable from the glyph vendor for 5c.

-Available at all levels, starting at level 1.

-Reversible or semi-permanent ala Glyph of War (at the discretion of turtle devs)

~Mechanics~

-Taking the outlaw glyph makes you an ‘outlaw’, flagging you as PvP and hostile to all players regardless of faction.

-You are permanently flagged for FFA PvP and cannot unflag.

-You can attack all players flagged for PvP regardless of faction.

-You will still be friendly with faction reputations and able to complete normal game related activities as usual. Cities are accessible, but beware! Your own faction can PvP you in town.

-Any player that attacks you will be flagged for PvP the normal way. If they are not bearing the outlaw glyph they cannot be attacked by their own faction.

~Benefits~

The benefit should be minor if any. Perhaps a little silver or bonus honor per HK, with more elaborate suggestions of possible benefits at the end of the post. The effect itself is what should be attractive and not having a major PvE buff should keep players from picking it up by accident. Like all TurtleWoW glyphs, at the end of the day, it should feel entirely optional.

~FAQ~

“But… why?”
Well… for RP and WPvP of course!
There are many RP guilds and individual characters on TurtleWoW that are not friendly to either faction, or are wanted in their home cities. A few that come to mind are:
-The Scourge
-Scarlet Crusade
-Blacktooth Grin
-The School of the Dragonhawk

Offering an opt-in ‘hostile mode’ would be a fantastic spin on Turtle’s already unique and exciting cross-faction experience. It would offer a balance to the diplomacy already present and only enrich the server’s living roleplay. It would also help to normalize cross-faction WPvP grouping, which is a bit of a grey area right now regarding its ethics despite it being mechanically viable.

“You can’t fool me you cheeky troll. You just want to gank horde!”
Yah got me! What better way to make WPvP feel fuller and more alive on such a small server? Outlaw glyph would make it so that those seeing overworld PvP encounters would have a greater pool of rivals out in the wilderness. More opting in! More chances for encounters!

Other ideas from the community!

-Outlaw glyph could make all hks dhks for the glyph bearers and contribute to ‘dishonorable’ honor gain and rank. This should be coupled with a dishonorable reputation gear vendor of some kind, like a coin created at HK (similar to halaa token system) for glyph holders that could be spent. Gear aquirement based *solely* on negative rank would be imbalaced as civilian dhks are easy to farm.

-Outlaw glyph could give a minor amount of reputation for Ring of Blood with each honorable kill as this reputation is difficult to farm.

-Other players could get a bonus for killing outlaws, maybe a bit of bonus honor or a bit of silver; a sort of passive bounty system.

If you got this far and find this idea for a potential feature interesting please leave a comment or suggestion below! Let's think up the best way to implement such a glyph and create the most fun and dynamic RP server there could possibly be!

[N0l]

I fully support this, and I'd totally use it. Personally, I'm against any real benefit for the reasons you described - it should feel optional and be picked up because you want the world to be more fun and dangerous, not just because you want more honor per kill or similar.

I wouldn't mind an "Outlaw Reward System", but maybe instead of using the DHK system, just set it up more like a rep. Every PvP kill in outlaw mode gets you X rep with some merc/outlaw organization, selling some cosmetic rewards at different rep levels. That way, even if people want to "cheat" and just organize killing each other to get points, all they get for the effort is cosmetics.

[Zedth0ugh]

This is definitely a neat *optional* idea that could breath some life into the rppvp/wpvp community on TWOW.

[Crushfiend]

I support and would opt in!

-slim

[Shirazen]

I'm obviously going to throw my hand up in support of Outlaw Glyph as someone who's talked about loving something like this extensively - for both my character and my guild.
The cross-faction grouping aspect of Turtle's PvE being moved up to PvP as well is a great opportunity for grouping, roleplaying, RP-WPvP events, and everything in between.

I can see a *couple* of downsides, mainly lowbie ganking (This makes Warmode a LOT more risky for lowbies, which is actually a GOOD thing, imo) - BUT really at the end of the day, the Outlaw will suffer WAY more than he will benefit, which is the perfect balancing mechanism.
Even if you can kill/gank lowbies in your own faction, you're going to be getting killed by the 60s of BOTH factions, and the 60s of your own faction will be able to stop you from getting away with further crimes.

People who have been doing "robbery" roleplaying (if you're been in Westfall you may have gotten "held up" by a Goblin Rogue using disguises to appear as a Defias Bandit) will also love this as it will open up the spots they can do their trade-window pickpocketing gimmicks.

Overall, I feel the game would greatly benefit from an Outlaw Glyph, with few downsides. People who don't want to full-time PvP are already going to be safe by simply not flagging, so that just leaves Warmode players as the ones who are full-time flagged... they know what they signed on for!! The Outlaws are really the ones placing themselves at risk, even with "rewards" or minor benefits.

[Snakeman]

ADORE this suggestion and 100% would pick it up for RP reasons on my active Grin characters! Been eagerly awaiting the suggestion going up officially; I'm so for it.

I'd definitely love to see a way of gearing via dishonour implemented too - having to take the time to rank positively before you can go for the juicy outlaw and pariah titles when your character is a seasoned war criminal IC feels kinda sad, in my opinion. I could just hide my PvP title, but... *shudders*

It'd open up some great avenues for world PvP, and it'd also allow for each faction to fight their exclusive classes outside of duelling, which could be an interesting new experience for a lot of people in Vanilla. (Do I just want Alliance players to know how annoying Lay on Hands is to deal with? ...maybe. hehe <3 )

This is also definitely the kind of thing that shouldn't have a "reward" attached to it, I support that notion wholeheartedly. War Mode having the +30% XP mod is really nice when you just want it to show people you're available for fite anytime (hell, most of Grin kept it when they hit 60), but it's caused a lot of problems for people who take it with the primary purpose of levelling up faster and are surprised when they get camped in Stranglethorn Vale by someone 10+ levels over them. It would be preferable for something like this to have no direct rewards attached to it - even a small honour bonus would probably be enough for rankers to lap it up like warm milk, when they aren't really the intended target audience.

I really hope devs take this suggestion into consideration! I think it would be brilliant for the RPers on this server. (:

[Bellybutton]

This is probably one of the only PvP mode suggestions that I actually support, this sounds incredibly fun both from a PvP perspective and an RP perspective.

As a bit of RP flair, and maybe as the sole "refuge" for Outlaw Players, they're only """safe""" from being ganked by other players in Steamwheedle Cartel towns. Not because the Steamwheedle Cartel is openly supporting outlaws, and not because Outlaws are aligned with the Steamwheedle Cartel, but to maintain pure neutrality. Attacking an Outlaw in say, Ratchet or Booty Bay, will get the guards to attack you much like a Horde attacking an Alliance in Ratchet or Booty Bay. Likewise, goblin bruisers will attack Outlaws for PvPing in Goblin towns.

[Jambiya]

Use this to your hearts content: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2546

[Mativh]

...just set it up more like a rep. Every PvP kill in outlaw mode gets you X rep with some merc/outlaw organization, selling some cosmetic rewards at different rep levels.

This is a great idea and I think it should be applied on warmode, instead of the current xp reward it has.

[Mac]

I like the idea of an outlaw mode, and I think you make good arguments for it (like how quite a few roleplay guilds would be able to incorporate it into their game).

I wouldn't mind an "Outlaw Reward System", but maybe instead of using the DHK system, just set it up more like a rep. Every PvP kill in outlaw mode gets you X rep with some merc/outlaw organization, selling some cosmetic rewards at different rep levels. That way, even if people want to "cheat" and just organize killing each other to get points, all they get for the effort is cosmetics.

I like this idea for both Warmode and Outlaw modes. There could be a Mercenary Guild faction with a couple small mercenary camps set up across the world. I wouldn't even mind if there were non-cosmetic items attached as long as they were more PVP oriented (like items with worn effects on them that increase your chance to resist various forms of CC, like increased stun resistance and so on).

[Bellybutton]

Bumping for more visibility, because this is a really cool idea.

[Jekka]

Use this to your hearts content: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2546

+1 good stuff in both places there and here. There’s a workable solution somewhere in between.

[Geistxii]

Bump

[Meepingmeeps]

bump

[Anomay]

I support this idea, I like world pvp, and will be one of the first persons who will buy this glyph.

[Gladeshadow]

An outlaw glyph would be amazing for RP PvP purposes. Totally for it and would love to see people play their own way with their own story. It reminds me of my early days playing a human warlock. I wanted to be a cruel character. Finding oats in Westfall for Blanchy completely ruined that immersion and I stopped playing that character altogether.

It’s a no on the suggestion of only Steamwaddle Cartel towns being friendly to outlaws. Most classes can’t respec at neutral towns. And being able to be a hostile character in towns of your race makes sense rp wise. Like being an envoy of the Scarlet Crusade in Stormwind or of the Blacktooth Grin in Orgrimmar. It would certainly help in creating a sense of a dynamic political environment. Even for PvP enabled non-outlaws, it would give a sense of danger if wandering into rough parts own town like The Slaughtered Lamb or the Cleft of Shadow.

[Proudwell]

I adore this idea very much.

[Pringlesfan]

It's neat but sounds like it would create too much chaos and trolling opportunities so I'd say no. I'd say same faction pvp would only be ok if both players are using this glyph. I think if you pvp In cities guards should kill you (rp-wise this makes sense) idk what kinda crazy flags you would have to set to make this all work though. Also probably no honor benefit for killing your own faction.

[Gladeshadow]

It's neat but sounds like it would create too much chaos and trolling opportunities so I'd say no. I'd say same faction pvp would only be ok if both players are using this glyph. I think if you pvp In cities guards should kill you (rp-wise this makes sense) idk what kinda crazy flags you would have to set to make this all work though. Also probably no honor benefit for killing your own faction.

I’d say that outlaw reputation with their own faction groups ought to be fixed to neutral or unfriendly, something the original suggested left out. That way, non-outlaws will be assisted by city guards while outlaws will be attacked by city guards if any aggression occurs. Same as we see for the Steamwheedle Cartel factions. No honor for killing same faction is fine too. Such outlaw tactics aren’t honorable, after all.

[Jangles]

I want

[Noppanoppa]

I find this idea really appealing. Would love to see Outlaw Glyph in game! This would help the RP community and WPVP.

My friend said to me one day that Turtle WoW would be perfect if it only would be PVP server. Maybe Outlaw Glyph would bring him toward believing Turtle WoW can be a perfect server.

[Heinzanovatalks]

I love this idea

[Dauntedpony]

I feel like this should be connected to a crime faction in some way. Maybe the Syndicate. I like the idea, but I do not know if I would want new players to get exposed to such a harsh status when they might not fully understand it.

For flavor purposes, there could be an awesome questline unlocked once you enter this mode. Maybe an assassination of a series of important characters in major cities. Probably a group quest.

Killing an outlaw grants much more honor, but maybe they have access to a special PvP trinket?

One important bit though would be to create a special faction icon for outlaws.

Seems like a good addition that shouldn't affect the game in any negative ways.

[Ephixa]

Would be amazing to have this but I think it should only be available in higher level zones