Night Elf Mages

[Draiocht]

Sometime down the line, Turtle WoW team should add Night Elf Mages as a class/race combination!

[Notawen]

It has lore problems. That race collectively made a vow about not using arcane or fel magic. It sucks because I really wanted to play as a Night Elf warlock since I started.

[Augustfenix85]

I thought it was weird that night elf priests get a arcane spell. You would think Blizzard would’ve made it do holy damage.

[Afaslizo]

I thought it was weird that night elf priests get a arcane spell. You would think Blizzard would’ve made it do holy damage.

Moonfire and Starfire are arcane too, it is just a gameplay version of celestial damage. Nothing to do with arcane lore of mages.

[Gheor]

The Shen'drelar are the only Night Elves to currently use magic, them being Highborne really and no to mention currently corrupted. The Night Elves would not and will not take magic, especially not after the events of the Sundering, we try to look at it from the lore perspective.

Night Elf Mages shouldn't exist.

[Merikkinon]

I thought it was weird that night elf priests get a arcane spell. You would think Blizzard would’ve made it do holy damage.

Moonfire and Starfire are arcane too, it is just a gameplay version of celestial damage. Nothing to do with arcane lore of mages.

Good explanation. I appreciated it, Moo Man.

[Afaslizo]

It is not the only case if you look at it properly. The fire magic of mages is an arcane manipulation of the element of fire while shamans get their fire spells through negotiation with fire elemental spirits and warlocks do not use fire but essentially fel energy. They are just unified into a fitting damage type even if not entirely appropriate. Even it could be done in the engine without doing an entire new game fire mages do not really have much control over it and risk burning down the world with it while shamans could negotiate a local well defined effect if their negotiation skills are up to the task. Fel magic is inherently corrupting as a force of chaos and thus should permanently scar the land like the zone of Felwood.
Another case is shadow damage which is corruption by warlocks and mind magic of priests. There is no connection between the two of them. If you would have necromancy that would be another set of alltogether different corruption.

[Merikkinon]

Nice explanations.

I've always wanted fel power to have a risk of burning the warlock. The idea of complete mastery of it... yeah no. I mean, we have some of that with the greater demon taming (mastering), but I wish there was a mechanism that popped once in awhile on the warlock.

Just too much immunity to the effects of wielding arcane/magic powers in WoW. Too much control, too much certainty, to much insulation.

Kinda boring. But that goes on the original developers.

[Afaslizo]

Actually I think your mastery acknowledgement is found in the leveling process. Remember that Warlocks start with Shadow Bolt and corruption and only one fire themed dot. It is only later that they gain access to other forms of fel fire one of those being a spell that hurts themselves.

And in a way the cue that wl fire spells are far less effective than mage fire spells.

[Merikkinon]

Help me - what is this spell that hurts themselves? I am not catching on.

I mean, I think using magic (mage, warlock, whatever) should likely always have some risk associated with it. But this is very conceptual, and the original developers either didn't want it, conceive it, or simply just made the assessment that it might be too much for most players.

And if the latter, than perhaps that is so.

[Qixel]

It has lore problems. That race collectively made a vow about not using arcane or fel magic. It sucks because I really wanted to play as a Night Elf warlock since I started.

So did the orcs, but here we are.

[Sinrek]

Night Elf mage = Highborne. Those guys are tightly confined in their cherished Eldre'thalas. Gheor had it explained pretty thoroughly.

Read: "No."

[Afaslizo]

Help me - what is this spell that hurts themselves? I am not catching on.

https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=1949/hellfire

[Lahire]

Making Life Tap letal when used under 10% health would be a good change.

[Merikkinon]

Night Elf mage = Highborne. Those guys are tightly confined in their cherished Eldre'thalas. Gheor had it explained pretty thoroughly.

Read: "No."

Rude. What is the benefit of being rude to players? How do you know they are not super-supporting the server financially? You all are representing the team in how you respond to players and manage the forum.

Also, locking down threads in haste, unless they are inflammatory and super-negative, is ill-advised. Let them die out as they boil down to one person making an argument and no one reading it.

[Merikkinon]

Making Life Tap lethal when used under 10% health would be a good change.

OK! Now that is the kind of stuff I am talking about.

[Merikkinon]

Help me - what is this spell that hurts themselves? I am not catching on.

https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=1949/hellfire

Right, right. I avoid that so much. Thx.

[Gheor]

Night Elf mage = Highborne. Those guys are tightly confined in their cherished Eldre'thalas. Gheor had it explained pretty thoroughly.

Read: "No."

Rude. What is the benefit of being rude to players? How do you know they are not super-supporting the server financially? You all are representing the team in how you respond to players and manage the forum.

Also, locking down threads in haste, unless they are inflammatory and super-negative, is ill-advised. Let them die out as they boil down to one person making an argument and no one reading it.

Not sure how a lore explanation is rude, and honestly I am not sure how you read emotions through text. We're all trying to sound professional here, it's not our goal to be rude to players. We've offered an explanation why that is not feasible, it's simply something that shouldn't exist. Not because player X or Y proposed it, because that's just how it is. Me and Sinrek value the lore highly and we're trying to keep it as level headed as possible, I apologize if we seem rude in our words but that is not the intent, I know for sure my colleague feels the same way.

Text is emotionless, that's what I am trying to do, it doesn't make it rude, at least from where I am standing, it simply makes it unbiased.

[Merikkinon]

I think the first paragraph of response was fine. No problem.

The second line, however, was not, and I bolded it as such (perhaps I should only have quoted that). It was:

Quotes: Read: "No."

Having cited that, I do know that both of you (and the team in general) highly value lore. I think most of us do. And I appreciate you are holding together a project that requires boundaries. In no way, shape or form would I (and I hope others) wish for that to change. I believe we saw Blizzard relax many boundaries and we saw the repercussions.

Lines in sand or citing current thinking or decisions is fine. In fact, I think communities in general ask to know those things.

Delivery, however, does matter.

Anyhow, let me end by saying I do see often how, especially on Discord, you are gracious and patient. And that is appreciated.

[Kazgrim]

Considering night elves are highborne and highborne are night elves I don’t see why not. You can do a lot when it comes to class combinations, even having certain race class combos spawn in different areas. I don’t think it makes sense for a night elf mage to spawn in teldrassil seeing as night elven society has largely ostracized mages. If this were to be a thing, they would need their own starting zone. Perhaps in the future we can work on something like this if there is interest from the team to develop, but horde would need something too.

[Kazgrim]

It would require new quests and a new zone as well as some lore to explain why highborne have joined the alliance. I’m not saying this is going to happen, but I an outlining some of the things I think could make it possible.

[Notawen]

Considering night elves are highborne and highborne are night elves I don’t see why not. You can do a lot when it comes to class combinations, even having certain race class combos spawn in different areas. I don’t think it makes sense for a night elf mage to spawn in teldrassil seeing as night elven society has largely ostracized mages. If this were to be a thing, they would need their own starting zone. Perhaps in the future we can work on something like this if there is interest from the team to develop, but horde would need something too.

[Notawen]

Considering night elves are highborne and highborne are night elves I don’t see why not. You can do a lot when it comes to class combinations, even having certain race class combos spawn in different areas. I don’t think it makes sense for a night elf mage to spawn in teldrassil seeing as night elven society has largely ostracized mages. If this were to be a thing, they would need their own starting zone. Perhaps in the future we can work on something like this if there is interest from the team to develop, but horde would need something too.

They could start in the human starter area, as they could be ostracized by the broader night elven community in lore.

[Hawkknight]

It has lore problems. That race collectively made a vow about not using arcane or fel magic. It sucks because I really wanted to play as a Night Elf warlock since I started.

I mean there are Night Elf Mages who are from Dire Maul so who knows much like what Retail did I hope we see lore reasons for the Surviving Highborne who Survived the Mad Prince from Dire Maul come back to the Night Elf Society or atleast the High Elf Society and Dalaran too.

[Aszura]

the only problem is lore-wise, but... the Nelf priest arcane power is just gameplay-wise
lore-wise its celestial power (or something related to the Moon/Elune)

we could pretty much say that night elven mages are just Moon Priests using celestial/Moon/Elune powers

same as Tauren paladins being Sunwalkers (shaman warrior using sun power) and tauren priest being Seers (shamans who focus in the spiritual world and follows the sun goddes)

Nelf mage is a problem that is already solved ingame, just look at Forsaken Priest
Forsaken can't use Light, so lore-wise, they can't be Holy or Disc, only Shadow, the Holy/Disc specs are just gameplay-wise

Nelf mage specs would be gameplay-wise, lore-wise they use the Moon as said above
(devs could also just change the "Arcane" name to "Celestial" if possible)

So, Night Elf mage is possible in vanilla, thou i prefer they leave one free slot incase Devs decides to make a whole new class (demon hunter maybe...)

[Undertaker]

Night Elf mage = Highborne. Those guys are tightly confined in their cherished Eldre'thalas. Gheor had it explained pretty thoroughly.

Read: "No."

Rude. What is the benefit of being rude to players? How do you know they are not super-supporting the server financially? You all are representing the team in how you respond to players and manage the forum.

Also, locking down threads in haste, unless they are inflammatory and super-negative, is ill-advised. Let them die out as they boil down to one person making an argument and no one reading it.

What in the world?! How was that rude? If he would have only said the "No" then maybe we could debate whether it had any negative intent. But there is a short explanation and a reference to an earlier comment. I found the "No" to actually read as a funny "changes tone to a low voice: No" - I think this was the intention.

What's next, saying you were offended? That it was "triggering"? Such a ridiculous take...

[Allwynd01]

Night Elf mage = Highborne. Those guys are tightly confined in their cherished Eldre'thalas. Gheor had it explained pretty thoroughly.

Read: "No."

Rude. What is the benefit of being rude to players? How do you know they are not super-supporting the server financially? You all are representing the team in how you respond to players and manage the forum.

Also, locking down threads in haste, unless they are inflammatory and super-negative, is ill-advised. Let them die out as they boil down to one person making an argument and no one reading it.

What in the world?! How was that rude? If he would have only said the "No" then maybe we could debate whether it had any negative intent. But there is a short explanation and a reference to an earlier comment. I found the "No" to actually read as a funny "changes tone to a low voice: No" - I think this was the intention.

What's next, saying you were offended? That it was "triggering"? Such a ridiculous take...

Ignore the drama queen. These people enjoy being offended on the forums or Discord rather than playing the game. That's become their main source of entertainment, find ways to get offended by anything.

[Falerian]

The main argument I see whenever this topic is brought up is that Night Elves can't be mages because their society has outlawed it, and it would 'go against the lore'. Now, while it is true that at this point in Darnassian society, arcane is outlawed...however, the same could be said for Alliance warlocks. Human warlocks certainly go against the norm, and my understanding is that the quest dialogue for human warlocks heavily implies that their actions are outlawed and certainly not tolerated, to the point most of the class trainers practice their work under the basement of a dodgy pub.

I don't see why this couldn't be the case for night elf mages. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a class/race selection that can go against the norm, especially as the rest of the night elf classes in default vanilla are very much traditional picks. It could be a neat way for Turtle WoW to expand on Highborne lore, or even going down a more custom root and coming up with a faction of kaldorei who seek to go back to their old, arcane-manipulating ways, perhaps even with the influence of the Alliance's quel'dorei allies?

[Qixel]

The main argument I see whenever this topic is brought up is that Night Elves can't be mages because their society has outlawed it, and it would 'go against the lore'. Now, while it is true that at this point in Darnassian society, arcane is outlawed...however, the same could be said for Alliance warlocks. Human warlocks certainly go against the norm, and my understanding is that the quest dialogue for human warlocks heavily implies that their actions are outlawed and certainly not tolerated, to the point most of the class trainers practice their work under the basement of a dodgy pub.

I don't see why this couldn't be the case for night elf mages. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a class/race selection that can go against the norm, especially as the rest of the night elf classes in default vanilla are very much traditional picks. It could be a neat way for Turtle WoW to expand on Highborne lore, or even going down a more custom root and coming up with a faction of kaldorei who seek to go back to their old, arcane-manipulating ways, perhaps even with the influence of the Alliance's quel'dorei allies?

Warlocks are indeed practicing illegally for half the races. Orcs and humans are very hardline against it (especially the orcs, given their recent history), while gnomes see it simply as another thing to study (albeit a dangerous one) and the undead see it as a path to power.

[Mativh]

There were Night Elf mages, just the use of magic changed their appearance and they became known as the High Elves. The current Night Elves are against using magic, they don't teach it and exile anyone who would want to learn, so it makes no sense lore-wise for them to be mages.

[Allwynd01]

There were Night Elf mages, just the use of magic changed their appearance and they became known as the High Elves. The current Night Elves are against using magic, they don't teach it and exile anyone who would want to learn, so it makes no sense lore-wise for them to be mages.

Also don't forget that pretty much everything since WoTLK is kinda non-canonical. After they told the story in Warcraft 3, everything else was made up and pulled out of their ass just so they can continue making expansions and milk the franchise. Of course they will retcon why all of a sudden Night Elves can be Mages or Tauren can be Paladin, except it's all BS.

Just think about it:

The Night Elves: We banned the use of magic, because we almost destroyed ourselves, but now it's a good time to start using magic again, because it's a new expansion and the invisible hand that controls our lives demands it.

The Tauren: We haven't the slightest idea what Paladins stand for, we like the spirits of of the elements, but Paladins have cool armors and hammers, so we shall now be Paladins too.

Retail WoW and whatever happens in it stopped making sense over a decade ago and continues to make less and less sense. It absolutely SHOULD NOT be used as an example of lore or explanation why anything can or cannot happen.

I've said it before, but I will say it again - what makes Vanilla the best version of WoW is that it's so grounded and generic fantasy MMORPG, it doesn't have lasers or spaceships or aliens or weird crap like in all of WoW's expansions, even in TBC, which is also a piece of crap. The fact that only a few races can be a certain class is actually a good thing, it encourages roleplay, even if a player doesn't particularly talk as if they are their character, just the fact that they acknowledge that due to certain lore reasons only certain races can be certain classes and be OK with it is enough.

People need to realize some things and stop asking for the most ridiculous things to be added.

[Aszura]

Night Elf Shaman.

[Sinrek]

Night Elf Shaman.

They have Druids. Which is like an upgrade.

[Kanto123]

Night Elf Shaman.

They have Druids. Which is like an upgrade.

Are there lore reasons that contradict Night Elf shamans and make it prohibited like Night Elf mages, or is it just something that has never been addressed in the lore?

[Sinrek]

Night Elf Shaman.

They have Druids. Which is like an upgrade.

Are there lore reasons that contradict Night Elf shamans and make it prohibited like Night Elf mages, or is it just something that has never been addressed in the lore?

You'll have to dive into terms what shamanism is and what is druidism.