The multibox rule change punishes players doing leveling challenges with two characters that are the same level

[Apav]

I know I will get flamed for this because people don't like multiboxing at all, but oh well. I still want to voice my opinion anyway.

This recent rule change seems like it was targeted at people who created an alt with leveling challenges, only to have their other 60 character carry them to max level. What this rule also affects, which I'm not sure if the staff intended, is people like me who were doing leveling challenges on two characters that I started at the same time and thus are the same level.

Now I know some of you might argue that that's still less of a challenge, but when you have Slow and Steady, Vagrant's and Craftsman challenges on, it is still actually really challenging. You're not fully playing two characters because you're playing them manually, so playing one character leads you to barely playing the other character well at all outside of auto attacking and a spell on demand every now and again. You are extremely squishy without stats from gear (or any gear at all since white crafted gear is far less of an occurrence at higher levels) and when things go south, that's two characters you have to manage effectively while you're panicking instead of one, when the stakes are higher due to death being punished by Slow and Steady. Not to mention, for both of my characters I had fun coming up with and speccing into really weird specs that work only for this particular situation. This was my first time multiboxing, and it was a more thrilling way to level that is a refreshing change of pace from the same leveling journey I do on every character. But now I can't do it anymore because my playstyle was lumped into this rule.


I'd like to hear if this was the staff's intention to prevent people like me from doing what we were doing as well, and if it was then I'll accept it. Though I still think it would've been only fair to give the people who were already leveling characters this way a one time option to disable leveling challenges if they submit a GM ticket so they can continue to multibox without breaking the rules. If it wasn't the staff's intention, then I'd like to suggest a slight change to the rules, so that if you are doing leveling challenges besides Hardcore and War Mode, you're allowed to multibox with two characters as long as those characters are within one level from one another. This still stops from people leveling alts with their 60, but it allows people like me to continue with what they're doing. The one level difference is a buffer to allow the lower level character to catch back up in case one character gets ahead and levels up before the other. Thank you for hearing me out.

[amanagor]

Doing the wanderer challenge on a warrior when you can just /follow a warlock trivializes the challenge in the sameway following a 60. Some classes are way easier to do wanderer with than others...

[Apav]

Doing the wanderer challenge on a warrior when you can just /follow a warlock trivializes the challenge in the sameway following a 60. Some classes are way easier to do wanderer with than others...

Then add another stipulation to the rule so that both characters must be played in combat, one can't just simply AFK while the other one does all the work. Before the rule change I was playing both in combat constantly switching back and forth at all times, the only time I /follow is when I'm traveling a greater distance. That playstyle isn't for everyone, let it serve as a natural barrier to entry. Still, as a warlock leveling with multiple challenges it is absolutely challenging, I have to be careful to not pull more than one mob at a time because chain fearing costs mana. I have to cast more spells than a normal warlock to do the same amount of damage which requires more mana that I already have a lot less of compared to a normal warlock, and I can barely even life tap in combat for enough mana to cast more spells because I have so little maximum health as well.

Besides, there are other ways to trivialize the leveling challenges that don't utilize multiboxing too. The biggest one being how you can just do low level quests as they reward the maximum xp, as long as you aren't 25 or more levels higher than the quest I believe. I never did that as I was playing with challenges to offset the easiness of leveling two characters simultaneously, but as long as that is a possibility for players doing leveling challenges, I don't think it's fair to prohibit one way to arguably make it easier but allow another. If their intention is to make it as challenging as possible, then they should all be prohibited.

[Pulptenks69]

Yeah well too bad, multibox elsewhere. This is not about you, its about intergrity. Go play somewhere that lets you multibox. Oh wait, Blizzard let's you do that for $15 per month, each character.

[Apav]

Yeah well too bad, multibox elsewhere. This is not about you, its about intergrity. Go play somewhere that lets you multibox. Oh wait, Blizzard let's you do that for $15 per month, each character.

It looks like you didn't read the rules or my post. You still can multibox with the new rules, just not without any challenges enabled. There's no need to have an attitude here. I'm just trying to have civil discourse and hopefully have a member of staff weigh in if this was their intention as well.

[Sylveria]

Yeah well too bad, multibox elsewhere. This is not about you, its about intergrity. Go play somewhere that lets you multibox. Oh wait, Blizzard let's you do that for $15 per month, each character.

It looks like you didn't read the rules or my post. You still can multibox with the new rules, just not without any challenges enabled. There's no need to have an attitude here. I'm just trying to have civil discourse and hopefully have a member of staff weigh in if this was their intention as well.

It's about the challenge staying a challenge. Especially for the challenges that contain rewards. And as amanagor stated: some Challenges are easier with certain specs, so you could just follow them. Changing the rules to that both characters are used in combat won't solve much but blurring the rules and the situations GameMasters need to review and taking ressources off of other problems.
You can't make rules for every single exception and "what if"-scenario. GameMasters, Community Helpers & Co have to relearn the rules every time as well when they're changed and they need to stay simple and easy to understand.

[Apav]

Yeah well too bad, multibox elsewhere. This is not about you, its about intergrity. Go play somewhere that lets you multibox. Oh wait, Blizzard let's you do that for $15 per month, each character.

It looks like you didn't read the rules or my post. You still can multibox with the new rules, just not without any challenges enabled. There's no need to have an attitude here. I'm just trying to have civil discourse and hopefully have a member of staff weigh in if this was their intention as well.

It's about the challenge staying a challenge. Especially for the challenges that contain rewards. And as amanagor stated: some Challenges are easier with certain specs, so you could just follow them. Changing the rules to that both characters are used in combat won't solve much but blurring the rules and the situations GameMasters need to review and taking ressources off of other problems.
You can't make rules for every single exception and "what if"-scenario. GameMasters, Community Helpers & Co have to relearn the rules every time as well when they're changed and they need to stay simple and easy to understand.

If that's the case they shouldn't have changed the rule in the first place, but we can agree to disagree there. However, I still think it is only fair for those who were leveling with challenges via multiboxing to be able to submit an in game ticket to request a one time exception to remove leveling challenges, that way we can continue multibox leveling as we desire and not be stuck with being forced to play one character at a time with leveling challenges. There was no advance warning that this rule would be changing, if I had known about this when I created my characters, I wouldn't have enabled leveling challenges to begin with. This is a serious demotivation for me to continue leveling them, but I don't want to relevel new characters as my effort and donation points spent on them would go to waste. If their intention was to prohibit my playstyle as well I understand, but I will not concede that point.

[Sylveria]

It looks like you didn't read the rules or my post. You still can multibox with the new rules, just not without any challenges enabled. There's no need to have an attitude here. I'm just trying to have civil discourse and hopefully have a member of staff weigh in if this was their intention as well.

It's about the challenge staying a challenge. Especially for the challenges that contain rewards. And as amanagor stated: some Challenges are easier with certain specs, so you could just follow them. Changing the rules to that both characters are used in combat won't solve much but blurring the rules and the situations GameMasters need to review and taking ressources off of other problems.
You can't make rules for every single exception and "what if"-scenario. GameMasters, Community Helpers & Co have to relearn the rules every time as well when they're changed and they need to stay simple and easy to understand.

If that's the case they shouldn't have changed the rule in the first place, but we can agree to disagree there. However, I still think it is only fair for those who were leveling with challenges via multiboxing to be able to submit an in game ticket to request a one time exception to remove leveling challenges, that way we can continue multibox levelingor be stuck with being forced to play one character at a time with leveling challenges. There was no advanced warning that this rule would be changing, if I had known about this when I created my characters, I wouldn't have enabled leveling challenges to begin with. This is a serious demotivation to continue leveling, but I don't want to relevel new characters as my effort and donation points spent on them would go to waste.

Fair. But i think you will soon have a possibility again to end challenges earlier.

[Drubarrymooer]

Hey I got to immortal on two toons because I was dragging a dead weight behind me the whole time. Yeah totally fair. Smh. Play the character you want the challenge on. It's not a challenge if you just have a second account on follow. That's just players being lazy.

[Apav]

It's about the challenge staying a challenge. Especially for the challenges that contain rewards. And as amanagor stated: some Challenges are easier with certain specs, so you could just follow them. Changing the rules to that both characters are used in combat won't solve much but blurring the rules and the situations GameMasters need to review and taking ressources off of other problems.
You can't make rules for every single exception and "what if"-scenario. GameMasters, Community Helpers & Co have to relearn the rules every time as well when they're changed and they need to stay simple and easy to understand.

If that's the case they shouldn't have changed the rule in the first place, but we can agree to disagree there. However, I still think it is only fair for those who were leveling with challenges via multiboxing to be able to submit an in game ticket to request a one time exception to remove leveling challenges, that way we can continue multibox levelingor be stuck with being forced to play one character at a time with leveling challenges. There was no advanced warning that this rule would be changing, if I had known about this when I created my characters, I wouldn't have enabled leveling challenges to begin with. This is a serious demotivation to continue leveling, but I don't want to relevel new characters as my effort and donation points spent on them would go to waste.

Fair. But i think you will soon have a possibility again to end challenges earlier.

That's good to hear, I didn't know this. If by soon you mean it's likely coming within the next few months, I'll go play my character on Tel'Abim until then. But all the more reason for support to grant one time requests to those who were affected by this rule change, if their intention is to change this soon.

[Apav]

Hey I got to immortal on two toons because I was dragging a dead weight behind me the whole time. Yeah totally fair. Smh. Play the character you want the challenge on. It's not a challenge if you just have a second account on follow. That's just players being lazy.

Hardcore has never been allowed while multiboxing, please re-read the rules and actually read this post and the replies if that's what you think I was doing. I enabled leveling challenges in the first place to offset the easier difficulty multiboxing would create, and with these challenges while fighting yellow mobs I still found it to be a challenge. But I don't think this "it should be a challenge and that's why it's prohibited" argument has any merit when you are allowed to easily level a hardcore character doing quests that would normally be gray to you, since low level quests up until 25 levels beneath you give full xp.

[Drubarrymooer]

Hey I got to immortal on two toons because I was dragging a dead weight behind me the whole time. Yeah totally fair. Smh. Play the character you want the challenge on. It's not a challenge if you just have a second account on follow. That's just players being lazy.

Hardcore has never been allowed while multiboxing, please re-read the rules and actually read this post and the replies if that's what you think I was doing. I enabled leveling challenges in the first place to offset the easier difficulty multiboxing would create, and with these challenges while fighting yellow mobs I still found it to be a challenge. But I don't think this "it should be a challenge and that's why it's prohibited" argument has any merit when you are allowed to easily level a hardcore character doing quests that would normally be gray to you, since low level quests up until 25 levels beneath you give full xp.

I was being facetious. You can clear all the grey quests you want but the XP they give isn't scaling up, is it? So that's really a moot point. At some point you'll have to do lvl 50+ quests which do present a challenge.

What you find unfair is just low-key cheating. Let's say they change it, then the next thing people will be saying it's unfair they can't multi box 3 toons. After all warlocks can do it. Lol. It's just absurd. I'm not normally one to poke fun at strangers but it's kinda warranted here. It's just not cool to drag a toon behind, do virtually no part of the challenge, but reap the rewards, bragging rights, etc.

[Apav]

Hey I got to immortal on two toons because I was dragging a dead weight behind me the whole time. Yeah totally fair. Smh. Play the character you want the challenge on. It's not a challenge if you just have a second account on follow. That's just players being lazy.

Hardcore has never been allowed while multiboxing, please re-read the rules and actually read this post and the replies if that's what you think I was doing. I enabled leveling challenges in the first place to offset the easier difficulty multiboxing would create, and with these challenges while fighting yellow mobs I still found it to be a challenge. But I don't think this "it should be a challenge and that's why it's prohibited" argument has any merit when you are allowed to easily level a hardcore character doing quests that would normally be gray to you, since low level quests up until 25 levels beneath you give full xp.

I was being facetious. You can clear all the grey quests you want but the XP they give isn't scaling up, is it? So that's really a moot point. At some point you'll have to do lvl 50+ quests which do present a challenge.

What you find unfair is just low-key cheating. Let's say they change it, then the next thing people will be saying it's unfair they can't multi box 3 toons. After all warlocks can do it. Lol. It's just absurd. I'm not normally one to poke fun at strangers but it's kinda warranted here. It's just not cool to drag a toon behind, do virtually no part of the challenge, but reap the rewards, bragging rights, etc.

Why be facetious? Why poke fun at strangers? I get you don't like this post, but that's just needlessly pointless. You're wasting your own time. Don't get me wrong though, I welcome any discussion that keeps the topic relevant to increase the chance of it being looked over by a member of staff.

With the amount of quests in the game in addition to the new quests this server adds from both old and new zones, that's not true at all if you're making sure to finish all the quests before you're 25 levels above them. Plus there are daily quests here, like the two in the Shimmering Flats that reward 8k xp daily for a quick and out of combat objective. It is certainly doable without ever interacting with a level 50+ quest. You're actually making me want to create a hardcore Warrior character and level to 60 with only green or gray quests after I cleared the first starter zone to prove this point, while I wait for being able to disable leveling challenges on my other characters.

Until full xp on low level quests is disabled for players with leveling challenges, I don't want to hear anything about fairness. And again with dragging a toon behind, who is saying that should be allowed? A GM gets a report that a player is multiboxing with one character being AFK on follow. The GM teleports to that players location, observes and confirms the rule breaking behavior, then checks if the characters have leveling challenges enabled. If they do, then the GM applies whatever punishment is applicable. It's really not that difficult. Constantly playing two characters at once in and of itself is a challenge, and serves as a natural barrier to entry. The playstyle isn't for everyone, let that be the discouragement to multibox. No one is asking to multibox three toons. The rule was fine as it was before, and it would be fine if they changed the new rule change to allow multiboxing with leveling challenges enabled as long as both characters are within one level from one another and one is not AFK and on follow. This still achieves their goal of taking boosting out of the equation.

In any case whether you agree or disagree with me, there is no argument for not allowing people affected by this rule change to request to have leveling challenges removed from their characters so they can continue multiboxing, if that is what they desire. You may not like their playstyle, but that is only fair given we received no advance warning about the rule change. There is nothing unfair about giving up a challenge. Even the community helper above agreed with that.

[Drubarrymooer]

Hardcore has never been allowed while multiboxing, please re-read the rules and actually read this post and the replies if that's what you think I was doing. I enabled leveling challenges in the first place to offset the easier difficulty multiboxing would create, and with these challenges while fighting yellow mobs I still found it to be a challenge. But I don't think this "it should be a challenge and that's why it's prohibited" argument has any merit when you are allowed to easily level a hardcore character doing quests that would normally be gray to you, since low level quests up until 25 levels beneath you give full xp.

I was being facetious. You can clear all the grey quests you want but the XP they give isn't scaling up, is it? So that's really a moot point. At some point you'll have to do lvl 50+ quests which do present a challenge.

What you find unfair is just low-key cheating. Let's say they change it, then the next thing people will be saying it's unfair they can't multi box 3 toons. After all warlocks can do it. Lol. It's just absurd. I'm not normally one to poke fun at strangers but it's kinda warranted here. It's just not cool to drag a toon behind, do virtually no part of the challenge, but reap the rewards, bragging rights, etc.

Why be facetious? Why poke fun at strangers? I get you don't like this post, but that's just needlessly pointless. You're wasting your own time. Don't get me wrong though, I welcome any discussion that keeps the topic relevant to increase the chance of it being looked over by a member of staff.

With the amount of quests in the game in addition to the new quests this server adds from both old and new zones, that's not true at all if you're making sure to finish all the quests before you're 25 levels above them. Plus there are daily quests here, like the two in the Shimmering Flats that reward 8k xp daily for a quick and out of combat objective. It is certainly doable without ever interacting with a level 50+ quest. You're actually making me want to create a hardcore Warrior character and level to 60 with only green or gray quests after I cleared the first starter zone to prove this point, while I wait for being able to disable leveling challenges on my other characters.

Until that is disabled for players with leveling challenges, I don't want to hear anything about fairness. And again with dragging a toon behind, who is saying that should be allowed? A GM gets a report that a player is multiboxing with one character being AFK on follow. The GM teleports to that players location, observes and confirms the rule breaking behavior, then checks if the characters have leveling challenges enabled. If they do, then the GM applies whatever punishment is applicable. It's really not that difficult. Constantly playing two characters at once in and of itself is a challenge, and serves as a natural barrier to entry. The playstyle isn't for everyone, let that be the discouragement to multi box. No one is asking to multibox three toons. The rule was fine as it was before, and it would be fine if they changed the new rule change to allow multiboxing with leveling challenges enabled as long as both characters are within one level from one another and one is not AFK and on follow. This still achieves their goal of taking boosting out of the equation.

In any case whether you agree or disagree with me, there is no argument for not allowing people affected by this rule change to request to have leveling challenges removed from their characters so they can continue multiboxing, if that is what they desire. You may not like their playstyle, but that is only fair given we received no advance warning about the rule change. There is nothing unfair about giving up a challenge. Even the community helper above agreed with that.

Keep digging that hole man. It only makes you look worse. I'm dying over here. Lol. The fact you're admitting you've done it in the past is just so sad. Hopefully they find out which toons it was done on and you're stripped of titles and rewards. That would be awesome.

[Apav]

I was being facetious. You can clear all the grey quests you want but the XP they give isn't scaling up, is it? So that's really a moot point. At some point you'll have to do lvl 50+ quests which do present a challenge.

What you find unfair is just low-key cheating. Let's say they change it, then the next thing people will be saying it's unfair they can't multi box 3 toons. After all warlocks can do it. Lol. It's just absurd. I'm not normally one to poke fun at strangers but it's kinda warranted here. It's just not cool to drag a toon behind, do virtually no part of the challenge, but reap the rewards, bragging rights, etc.

Why be facetious? Why poke fun at strangers? I get you don't like this post, but that's just needlessly pointless. You're wasting your own time. Don't get me wrong though, I welcome any discussion that keeps the topic relevant to increase the chance of it being looked over by a member of staff.

With the amount of quests in the game in addition to the new quests this server adds from both old and new zones, that's not true at all if you're making sure to finish all the quests before you're 25 levels above them. Plus there are daily quests here, like the two in the Shimmering Flats that reward 8k xp daily for a quick and out of combat objective. It is certainly doable without ever interacting with a level 50+ quest. You're actually making me want to create a hardcore Warrior character and level to 60 with only green or gray quests after I cleared the first starter zone to prove this point, while I wait for being able to disable leveling challenges on my other characters.

Until that is disabled for players with leveling challenges, I don't want to hear anything about fairness. And again with dragging a toon behind, who is saying that should be allowed? A GM gets a report that a player is multiboxing with one character being AFK on follow. The GM teleports to that players location, observes and confirms the rule breaking behavior, then checks if the characters have leveling challenges enabled. If they do, then the GM applies whatever punishment is applicable. It's really not that difficult. Constantly playing two characters at once in and of itself is a challenge, and serves as a natural barrier to entry. The playstyle isn't for everyone, let that be the discouragement to multi box. No one is asking to multibox three toons. The rule was fine as it was before, and it would be fine if they changed the new rule change to allow multiboxing with leveling challenges enabled as long as both characters are within one level from one another and one is not AFK and on follow. This still achieves their goal of taking boosting out of the equation.

In any case whether you agree or disagree with me, there is no argument for not allowing people affected by this rule change to request to have leveling challenges removed from their characters so they can continue multiboxing, if that is what they desire. You may not like their playstyle, but that is only fair given we received no advance warning about the rule change. There is nothing unfair about giving up a challenge. Even the community helper above agreed with that.

Keep digging that hole man. It only makes you look worse. I'm dying over here. Lol. The fact you're admitting you've done it in the past is just so sad. Hopefully they find out which toons it was done on and you're stripped of titles and rewards. That would be awesome.

Done what in the past? What are you even talking about? You're definitely misunderstanding something or just arguing in bad faith. I don't have any characters that are level 60, I'm too much of an altoholic for that though I've only been playing on here for a few months. I have three characters in their 40s, two on Nord one on TA. I've played according to the rules at the time. Any reference I made to myself multiboxing with leveling challenges was obviously when it was allowed. That's why after the rule change I have stopped multiboxing those characters with leveling challenges and am making a post about it now. Actually stop and think for a second.

Wishing for someone else to face account action when they didn't even break any rules just because you don't like what they have to say is quite something.

[Pulptenks69]

Yeah well too bad, multibox elsewhere. This is not about you, its about intergrity. Go play somewhere that lets you multibox. Oh wait, Blizzard let's you do that for $15 per month, each character.

It looks like you didn't read the rules or my post. You still can multibox with the new rules, just not without any challenges enabled. There's no need to have an attitude here. I'm just trying to have civil discourse and hopefully have a member of staff weigh in if this was their intention as well.

Again with another individual who think they're not read at all. Tired of posters like this who just being diligently dismissive. Go Multibox elsewhere, you're not welcome here. Enough said.

[Apav]

Yeah well too bad, multibox elsewhere. This is not about you, its about intergrity. Go play somewhere that lets you multibox. Oh wait, Blizzard let's you do that for $15 per month, each character.

It looks like you didn't read the rules or my post. You still can multibox with the new rules, just not without any challenges enabled. There's no need to have an attitude here. I'm just trying to have civil discourse and hopefully have a member of staff weigh in if this was their intention as well.

Again with another individual who think they're not read at all. Tired of posters like this who just being diligently dismissive. Go Multibox elsewhere, you're not welcome here. Enough said.

Not trying to be dismissive, but it seems like you're under the assumption that any and all multiboxing is prohibited, which is not the case. Perhaps you could not be so dismissive yourself by telling me to leave?

Snippet from https://turtle-wow.org/rules:

Multiboxing
Multiboxing is the act of running multiple WoW clients simultaneously. This can entail having multiple clients open on a single machine, or utilizing multiple. On Nordanaar, we permit the use of at most two accounts at a time, with the following exceptions:

If the rule isn't reconsidered, I will continue to multibox here in the capacity allowed by the rules as soon as we can manually disable leveling challenges. I will not be leaving regardless, so now that we made that clear I hope you will actually discuss the topic at hand here. If you still have nothing of relevance to say, I at least appreciate you boosting the visibility of my thread.

[Sylveria]

If that's the case they shouldn't have changed the rule in the first place, but we can agree to disagree there. However, I still think it is only fair for those who were leveling with challenges via multiboxing to be able to submit an in game ticket to request a one time exception to remove leveling challenges, that way we can continue multibox levelingor be stuck with being forced to play one character at a time with leveling challenges. There was no advanced warning that this rule would be changing, if I had known about this when I created my characters, I wouldn't have enabled leveling challenges to begin with. This is a serious demotivation to continue leveling, but I don't want to relevel new characters as my effort and donation points spent on them would go to waste.

Fair. But i think you will soon have a possibility again to end challenges earlier.

That's good to hear, I didn't know this. If by soon you mean it's likely coming within the next few months, I'll go play my character on Tel'Abim until then. But all the more reason for support to grant one time requests to those who were affected by this rule change, if their intention is to change this soon.

I have to correct myself:

AT THE MOMENT We are not aware of any plans for a feature to disable challenges. That's up to the design team.
But you can make a suggestion about that here on the Forum. Even though they're not writing here often, they do read the suggestions.