Make Hardcore Mode Fairer by Adjusting Global Announcements and Cross-Faction Targeting

[Skyshrouder]

Hello Turtle WoW Team and fellow players,

First of all, I truly enjoy playing Hardcore. What makes it even more exciting, is playing on Tel’Abim PvP server, so to start off, I am not against dying in PvP.

However, there's a growing problem that's affecting many Hardcore players, including myself: griefing and cross-faction tracking using second accounts and addons like Spy or UnitScan.

Some players are creating characters on both factions. For example, they use an Alliance alt to scout where Hardcore Alli players are leveling. Then, they use their Mainaccounte Horde character and actively hunt them down using PvP tracking tools.

Here’s a recent example from my experience:

I was questing in Desolace when a known Hardcore Hunter logged in. Shortly afterward, he arrived in the zone, so I left to avoid confrontation. He then parked his level 60 character there, essentially locking me out of the zone. I moved to Dustwallow Marsh to continue questing, and once again, he followed using another character, traveling straight from Orgrimmar, to Dustwallow. I had to leave that zone too. Later, I went to farm in Crescent Grove, only to learn later from another player that the HC-Hunter even had a third character parked in Ashenvale, covering yet another zone.

This kind of behavior takes away the core enjoyment of Hardcore "surviving the game world" not surviving coordinated multi-account hunts by lvl 60s.

My suggestion:
A simple but impactful improvement would be to disable the server-wide announcements when a Hardcore player reaches levels 20, 30, 40, or 50. These announcements unintentionally make HC players visible targets, encouraging griefing.

I believe that without these announcements, some griefers might try to detect HC players by sending group invites. While non-Hardcore players cannot group with Hardcore characters, and the invite fails automatically, there is still a system message that reveals the reason: “You cannot invite a Hardcore player.”
This message can still be used to confirm a player is Hardcore.

To address this, I suggest:

Suppressing or modifying that system message so it doesn't confirm HC status.
Or delaying that feedback with a short cooldown to reduce its usefulness as a detection method.
Final thoughts:
Hardcore should be a test of survival against the game—not a meta game of avoiding griefers using technical workarounds and second accounts. These simple changes would go a long way in preserving the integrity and fairness of the Hardcore experience.

Thank you for your time, and for your continued work on Turtle WoW. I hope this suggestion will spark a discussion about improving the Hardcore system for everyone who loves it.

Kind regards,
A Hardcore Player on Tel’Abim

[Krystyna8364]

So you want to level on pvp server, but without it being pvp server? Just level on Nordanaar with warmode on or smth. Or maybe devs should just add HC server

[Skyshrouder]

So you want to level on pvp server, but without it being pvp server? Just level on Nordanaar with warmode on or smth. Or maybe devs should just add HC server

It's not about the pvp, but having a dude use 2nd acc and 4 alts to hunt you, has nothing to do with pvp. I don't wanna disable it, just not have a target created by server message, on my back.
Maybe it's too hard to understand, sorry.

[Elfje]

So you want to level on pvp server, but without it being pvp server? Just level on Nordanaar with warmode on or smth. Or maybe devs should just add HC server

I think you lack some reading comprehension. The problem is not the PVP server, as that is obviously known before you do HC on a PVP server. The problem is twofold:
- level 20, 30, 40 and 50 announcements that "you are still alive"
- 24/7 tracking of "friends" you added to your list

Here is how that works, assume I want to grief players: I see the level 40 announcement, I see that Orcslayer (human warrior) just reached level 40 on hardcore. I open my second account, log into my Alliance toon, and add Orcslayer to my friends list. Now I know 24/7 whenever he is online, and I also know the zone he is in! I leave this second account on my second monitor.
I open my main account, log in to my undead rogue and go to the zone he currently is in. He changes zones (I see in real time on my second monitor), so I follow him there. Eventually I WILL find him and kill him.

All this is possible, simply because of the announcements. On a PVP server, we don't need to tell the world we're still alive. We don't mind if we get killed by random encounters. We do mind if we get a team of Naxx geared players after us, that track us 24/7 simply because of a server announcement!

Having multiple accounts on the pvp server is not allowed, but it's very hard to enforce this. What is easy to solve though, is simply disable the announcement. That does not seem to much to ask? And yes, it is totally possible to get to 60 on HC on the pvp server, I've done it before, but that is not the point here.

[Athr]

I might be an odd one, because I quite enjoy the challenge, I've reached immortal on Tel'abim while being chased. It was not easy, there are some people, especially on Horde, extremely invested - monitoring your progress, predicting your logout spots. As with everything, there's counterplay, even if it is not easy.
Without the HC hunters and the limited population of Tel'abim, reaching 60 would be essentially a pve cakewalk.

Initially I was all in for turning off these milestones and party invite notifications, but the more I think about it, implementing these would ruin the fun for me of the hardcore challenge.

[Gladeshadow]

I agree there is a difference between the Nordanaar and Tel'Abim servers - obviously there is at least one, since one if PvE and the other is PvP. I agree with the original poster that some changes could therefore be welcome, such as turning off the serverwide announcements that serve as an alert to griefers.

Griefing is the big issue. It has long been an issue on Nordanaar and the devs finally, though glacially, took some steps to prevent it. For example, some quests, such such as the warrior defensive stance quest in Stormwind and "A Rogue's Deal" quest in Silverpine Forest no longer have flagged npcs that will tag the player if any offensive action is taken against the npc.

A big part could also be more engagement from GMs. For example, there was the player who for a long time abused the mind control mechanic of satyrs in Felwood to deliberately kill specifically HC players. The specific targeting of HC players is particularly what makes this griefing, even by the rules on the turtle wow website. And GM action was lacking there. It would nice to see more GM action against specifically targeting the killing of HC players generally. Removing the serverwide announcements on Tel'Abim would at least be a good and passive (requiring no GM action) step towards that.

[Skyshrouder]

I also think it doesnt have to be the end all, be all. Maybe compromise and set the first announcement to lvl 40, so that you atleast have "kind of" a fighting chance.

[Cosmico]

Hello Turtle WoW Team and fellow players,

First of all, I truly enjoy playing Hardcore. What makes it even more exciting, is playing on Tel’Abim PvP server, so to start off, I am not against dying in PvP.

However, there's a growing problem that's affecting many Hardcore players, including myself: griefing and cross-faction tracking using second accounts and addons like Spy or UnitScan.

Some players are creating characters on both factions. For example, they use an Alliance alt to scout where Hardcore Alli players are leveling. Then, they use their Mainaccounte Horde character and actively hunt them down using PvP tracking tools.

Here’s a recent example from my experience:

I was questing in Desolace when a known Hardcore Hunter logged in. Shortly afterward, he arrived in the zone, so I left to avoid confrontation. He then parked his level 60 character there, essentially locking me out of the zone. I moved to Dustwallow Marsh to continue questing, and once again, he followed using another character, traveling straight from Orgrimmar, to Dustwallow. I had to leave that zone too. Later, I went to farm in Crescent Grove, only to learn later from another player that the HC-Hunter even had a third character parked in Ashenvale, covering yet another zone.

This kind of behavior takes away the core enjoyment of Hardcore "surviving the game world" not surviving coordinated multi-account hunts by lvl 60s.

My suggestion:
A simple but impactful improvement would be to disable the server-wide announcements when a Hardcore player reaches levels 20, 30, 40, or 50. These announcements unintentionally make HC players visible targets, encouraging griefing.

I believe that without these announcements, some griefers might try to detect HC players by sending group invites. While non-Hardcore players cannot group with Hardcore characters, and the invite fails automatically, there is still a system message that reveals the reason: “You cannot invite a Hardcore player.”
This message can still be used to confirm a player is Hardcore.

To address this, I suggest:

Suppressing or modifying that system message so it doesn't confirm HC status.
Or delaying that feedback with a short cooldown to reduce its usefulness as a detection method.
Final thoughts:
Hardcore should be a test of survival against the game—not a meta game of avoiding griefers using technical workarounds and second accounts. These simple changes would go a long way in preserving the integrity and fairness of the Hardcore experience.

Thank you for your time, and for your continued work on Turtle WoW. I hope this suggestion will spark a discussion about improving the Hardcore system for everyone who loves it.

Kind regards,
A Hardcore Player on Tel’Abim

From a non-hc player that is about to enter hc.

I have prepared a lot for this, more than the usual players who talks with 2 or 3 friends as much and jump into it. Now, not assuming you don't know much of hc because maybe yo do know something, let me give you some hints.

You have a very interesting idea but the manners in which you present it could be different.

You don't want that to be removed, what you think may or not be an issue.

What you want is power. And that's what hc players usually don't have.

I aint telling you, I wouldn't dare to tell you to do the same thing they do in your favor. HOwever... in this situation, ask for the turtles to give the hc characters some bread and milk. And that's it. Because you do have a point, although it's a part of the game you might even be enjoying in the future, in reality it ruins the content as it was supposed to be from the start. And that's unfair, even for the unfairness.

Hc players needs a natural, not organizational way to put the scenery into an equal risk-advantage in front of the inconvenience. Try that, in another thread probably for the best.

[Elfje]

From a non-hc player that is about to enter hc.

I have prepared a lot for this, more than the usual players who talks with 2 or 3 friends as much and jump into it. Now, not assuming you don't know much of hc because maybe yo do know something, let me give you some hints.

You have a very interesting idea but the manners in which you present it could be different.

You don't want that to be removed, what you think may or not be an issue.

What you want is power. And that's what hc players usually don't have.

I aint telling you, I wouldn't dare to tell you to do the same thing they do in your favor. HOwever... in this situation, ask for the turtles to give the hc characters some bread and milk. And that's it. Because you do have a point, although it's a part of the game you might even be enjoying in the future, in reality it ruins the content as it was supposed to be from the start. And that's unfair, even for the unfairness.

Hc players needs a natural, not organizational way to put the scenery into an equal risk-advantage in front of the inconvenience. Try that, in another thread probably for the best.

I really don't want to sound rude, but... as you still have to enter HC, and have not lost your character at 52 due to an organized gank: you don't know what you are talking about.
Unless you experienced flying to a zone, where a rogue is waiting at the end of the flight path for you, unless you get hunted in a zone while someone else is waiting at your hearthstone location, unless you teleport and a ganker is waiting for you at your destination, unless all that, you don't know what it is like. Sure, it's absolutely amazing if you survive this! But let's be honest, is it a fair game, when you are being hunted at level 38 by Naxx geared players?

Look, if you ask in general chat for HC groups for dungeons, or you walk around with your "still alive" title, that is totally on you. But the server telling the other faction your name and that you are playing hardcore, that is over the top. It is hard enough to survive a pvp server, there is no need to encourage sending level 60's after you.
I'm sure some people like the challenge (yes, it feels amazing when you do reach level 60), but in that case I think it should be a choice to let the world know you are playing HC. As it currently is, you don't have a choice, and the hunter will come after you, simply because the server told them your name.

This is mostly for the Alliance side. Horde can level almost exclusively in non-contested zones all the ay to 60, so this should never ben an issue for them.

[Nilay]

From a non-hc player that is about to enter hc.

I have prepared a lot for this, more than the usual players who talks with 2 or 3 friends as much and jump into it. Now, not assuming you don't know much of hc because maybe yo do know something, let me give you some hints.

You have a very interesting idea but the manners in which you present it could be different.

You don't want that to be removed, what you think may or not be an issue.

What you want is power. And that's what hc players usually don't have.

I aint telling you, I wouldn't dare to tell you to do the same thing they do in your favor. HOwever... in this situation, ask for the turtles to give the hc characters some bread and milk. And that's it. Because you do have a point, although it's a part of the game you might even be enjoying in the future, in reality it ruins the content as it was supposed to be from the start. And that's unfair, even for the unfairness.

Hc players needs a natural, not organizational way to put the scenery into an equal risk-advantage in front of the inconvenience. Try that, in another thread probably for the best.

I really don't want to sound rude, but... as you still have to enter HC, and have not lost your character at 52 due to an organized gank: you don't know what you are talking about.
Unless you experienced flying to a zone, where a rogue is waiting at the end of the flight path for you, unless you get hunted in a zone while someone else is waiting at your hearthstone location, unless you teleport and a ganker is waiting for you at your destination, unless all that, you don't know what it is like. Sure, it's absolutely amazing if you survive this! But let's be honest, is it a fair game, when you are being hunted at level 38 by Naxx geared players?

Look, if you ask in general chat for HC groups for dungeons, or you walk around with your "still alive" title, that is totally on you. But the server telling the other faction your name and that you are playing hardcore, that is over the top. It is hard enough to survive a pvp server, there is no need to encourage sending level 60's after you.
I'm sure some people like the challenge (yes, it feels amazing when you do reach level 60), but in that case I think it should be a choice to let the world know you are playing HC. As it currently is, you don't have a choice, and the hunter will come after you, simply because the server told them your name.

This is mostly for the Alliance side. Horde can level almost exclusively in non-contested zones all the ay to 60, so this should never ben an issue for them.

As one of the few Immortals on Tel'abim, I validate this comment so hard. I really enjoyed the challenge on the PvP realm, the thrill of escaping others or finding safe XP routes is amazing.
But this suggestion makes sense, especially for the Alliance.
I had to do incredibly stupid things and cheese so hard in the end to escape Cor or other modafukas, while Grantotem, Fendig, or Deadcow were immediately ganked at 50+. This is kinda nuts. I'm all in for ganking, but the industrial, drone-like behavior we currently have on the server is just crazy.

As for other non-HC commenting: please, friends, come to the PvP server first for the HC challenge, ideally as Alliance and up to level 40+. Then come back and post here so we can have a constructive discussion. Perhaps we will end up with even more interesting suggestions.

[Cosmico]

From a non-hc player that is about to enter hc.

I have prepared a lot for this, more than the usual players who talks with 2 or 3 friends as much and jump into it. Now, not assuming you don't know much of hc because maybe yo do know something, let me give you some hints.

You have a very interesting idea but the manners in which you present it could be different.

You don't want that to be removed, what you think may or not be an issue.

What you want is power. And that's what hc players usually don't have.

I aint telling you, I wouldn't dare to tell you to do the same thing they do in your favor. HOwever... in this situation, ask for the turtles to give the hc characters some bread and milk. And that's it. Because you do have a point, although it's a part of the game you might even be enjoying in the future, in reality it ruins the content as it was supposed to be from the start. And that's unfair, even for the unfairness.

Hc players needs a natural, not organizational way to put the scenery into an equal risk-advantage in front of the inconvenience. Try that, in another thread probably for the best.

I really don't want to sound rude, but... as you still have to enter HC, and have not lost your character at 52 due to an organized gank: you don't know what you are talking about.
Unless you experienced flying to a zone, where a rogue is waiting at the end of the flight path for you, unless you get hunted in a zone while someone else is waiting at your hearthstone location, unless you teleport and a ganker is waiting for you at your destination, unless all that, you don't know what it is like. Sure, it's absolutely amazing if you survive this! But let's be honest, is it a fair game, when you are being hunted at level 38 by Naxx geared players?

Look, if you ask in general chat for HC groups for dungeons, or you walk around with your "still alive" title, that is totally on you. But the server telling the other faction your name and that you are playing hardcore, that is over the top. It is hard enough to survive a pvp server, there is no need to encourage sending level 60's after you.
I'm sure some people like the challenge (yes, it feels amazing when you do reach level 60), but in that case I think it should be a choice to let the world know you are playing HC. As it currently is, you don't have a choice, and the hunter will come after you, simply because the server told them your name.

This is mostly for the Alliance side. Horde can level almost exclusively in non-contested zones all the ay to 60, so this should never ben an issue for them.

GROW A PAIR BRO! GO GET THE F*CK OUT OF THE HORDE. Don't play hardcore.

[Elfje]

As one of the few Immortals on Tel'abim, I validate this comment so hard. I really enjoyed the challenge on the PvP realm, the thrill of escaping others or finding safe XP routes is amazing.
But this suggestion makes sense, especially for the Alliance.
I had to do incredibly stupid things and cheese so hard in the end to escape Cor or other modafukas, while Grantotem, Fendig, or Deadcow were immediately ganked at 50+. This is kinda nuts. I'm all in for ganking, but the industrial, drone-like behavior we currently have on the server is just crazy.

As for other non-HC commenting: please, friends, come to the PvP server first for the HC challenge, ideally as Alliance and up to level 40+. Then come back and post here so we can have a constructive discussion. Perhaps we will end up with even more interesting suggestions.

The good part is that I recognize all the names and have a pretty good idea who you could be on the server. Those are the good parts of playing hardcore.
But the announcements, they just have to go IMO.