Druids Need Cyclone to Compete in Rated Arenas

[Pixiestixie]

As I see it, you are just trying to PvP with PvE talents and complaining about you being unable to perform good in PvP with those talents you're trying to.

You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect? Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?

You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?

I know Paladins are the most broken class so far now in turtle wow PvP, I know they can tank, DPS and heal at the same time, that they have their bubbles, slow inmunity, magic cleanse, and all, and that they need to be urgent nerfed at PvP. But that doesn't mean that every class needs to be as op as pallys currently are.

"You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect?"

^Regrowth takes 1.94 to cast, which is too long to respond to a shammy's burst.

" Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? "

^ No, you don't understand how efflorescence works. I've specifically tested this and dispeled hots do NOT get a burst of the unfinished hot. How it does work is when a druid overwrites the hot of another druid the target recieves a burst of whatever hot ticks the original hot had left."

"Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?"

^As I said previously if you had read closely, we can only SM every 15 seconds and NS every 3 mins. If a shammy crits a team member outside of that window it takes about 2 seconds to hard cast Regrowth on them, and the target will probably be dead by the time you get it off.

"You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?"

Bash is strong and it the ONLY counter we have to shammies or any other caster. Pounce isn't bad, and roots works fine as a physical cc. Again, roots does nothing against casters. You can keep them in place but they will still free cast on you.

[Pixiestixie]

Dear T WoW Devs and fellow Players,

Resto druid is so weak we will not be included on high-rated 3s teams. Take one look at Priests, Pallies and Shammies and you'll see why.

No one will want to bring us, and none of us will get a chance at a high rank, because Druids do not have a tool set that enables us to be competitive.

And I don't want to be excluded from playing with my friends because my class is gimped!

I know T WoW cares more than this about resto Druids, because you gave us Tree Form. However, it is incomplete.

The easiest way to make resto druids attractive is to give us Cyclone.

Before the cries of "Cylone is too OP it will break the game!" come out, let's review resto's weaknesses.

1. No offensive dispel
2. No mitigation
3. Can only heal burst fast if SM or NS HT are off of CD.
4. No dispel protection for our hots

So why bother playing resto druid? What strategy can be enabled by our unique talents? Historically, the class has "hot and run". We can partially do this with Rejuv and Regrowth, however, we need Lifebloom to be able to properly execute this strategy.

With Cyclone a druid team has a shot of gaining control, and that is enough to make competitive players consider bringing their resto druid friends to heal areneas.

Please add Cyclone to the game before rated 3s come out! Furthermore, I ask you to please give us Lifebloom as well, and failing that, at least make our hots un-dispellable / purgable. We need LB to pre-hot dps who are going aggressive, which is another key strat of our spec.

Cyclone and Lifebloom were part of the original toolkit Tree From resto druids had in TBC. Please add them to make our class functional, competitive, rewarding and FUN again.

Thank you very much for a wonderful game and for reading this!

You seem to forget that you do actually play a class that can do other things than heal, druids versatility makes it an absolute beast in PvP but sure if you want to shackle yourself to being a slow widdly piece of timber you wont have fun, why even bother going full mono spec when hybrid speccing is the way to go for druid PvP?

You seem to forget that even with versatility druids are weak in arena unless we have the 1 thing that sets us appart: Cyclone.

I have already explained that I know how to make a spec that does not use Tree Form. Furthermore I do use the other forms when I play resto.

[Purecek]

if the devs dont want arena to be a shitfest then yes, cyclone has to be added to the druids. Yes they are powerful in wsg but arenas is another thing.

[Synthetiks]

I am in the camp that believes Arenas ruined part of the game, but Pixie is correct in her assessment of Resto Druids in relations to competitive comps. Without Lifebloom and Cyclone, Resto Druids will simply not be competitive at the higher tiers. People keep making comments about TBC, and how Cyclone needs to stay there, but it was introduced specifically for arenas. So since we are bringing that aspect to Twow, the one thing that gave Resto Druids a leg to stand on must be added. Please devs, consider Lifebloom and Cyclone.

[Vega12]

While druids can peel with roots and mitigate some incoming damage through their defensive abilities, they lack the dedicated Strong healing spells that other healers like Priests or Paladins have. For example, Paladins can dispel harmful effects from allies, providing immediate relief and removing dangerous debuffs, while Priests can shield and absorb damage with powerful shields and Strong heals.

These healing tools make Priests and Paladins significantly more effective at keeping their teammates alive in high-pressure arena situations.

Without access to these specialized spells, druids are more vulnerable and less capable as a potential Pick for a 3v3 Setup.

In this context, "Cyclone" becomes even more crucial because it fills a significant gap in their crowd control options. With limited ways to reliably neutralize dangerous enemy targets, Cyclone provides an essential means to control key opponents, disrupt enemy strategies, and create opportunities for your team. Its ability to temporarily remove threats from the fight makes it a vital spell that helps compensate for the overall limitations in a druid's arena toolkit, enhancing their viability and effectiveness in competitive play.

While Cyclone is primarily valued in arena for its crowd control, it also offers significant benefits in battlegrounds like Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch. In these large-scale PvP environments, Cyclone can be used to neutralize high-priority enemy healers or dangerous DPS players, preventing them from healing or contributing to the fight temporarily. This disruption can turn team fights in your favor by removing key threats from the equation, allowing your team to focus on objectives or push through enemy defenses more effectively

[Naptor]

lol @ people calling cyclone busted in TBC.

[Pixiestixie]

In this context, "Cyclone" becomes even more crucial because it fills a significant gap in their crowd control options. With limited ways to reliably neutralize dangerous enemy targets, Cyclone provides an essential means to control key opponents, disrupt enemy strategies, and create opportunities for your team. Its ability to temporarily remove threats from the fight makes it a vital spell that helps compensate for the overall limitations in a druid's arena toolkit, enhancing their viability and effectiveness in competitive play.

Yes! This is a great explanation!!!

[Alienns]

Cyclone will be ok.

Also Fix that Lock can NOT seduce mages in IB. That was never existed in any wow version.
Spell pushback should be reduced if you get few hits. If just pet hitting you, you can`t cast anything.

[Dyco]

As I see it, you are just trying to PvP with PvE talents and complaining about you being unable to perform good in PvP with those talents you're trying to.

You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect? Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?

You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?

I know Paladins are the most broken class so far now in turtle wow PvP, I know they can tank, DPS and heal at the same time, that they have their bubbles, slow inmunity, magic cleanse, and all, and that they need to be urgent nerfed at PvP. But that doesn't mean that every class needs to be as op as pallys currently are.

"You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect?"

^Regrowth takes 1.94 to cast, which is too long to respond to a shammy's burst.

" Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? "

^ No, you don't understand how efflorescence works. I've specifically tested this and dispeled hots do NOT get a burst of the unfinished hot. How it does work is when a druid overwrites the hot of another druid the target recieves a burst of whatever hot ticks the original hot had left."

"Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?"

^As I said previously if you had read closely, we can only SM every 15 seconds and NS every 3 mins. If a shammy crits a team member outside of that window it takes about 2 seconds to hard cast Regrowth on them, and the target will probably be dead by the time you get it off.

"You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?"

Bash is strong and it the ONLY counter we have to shammies or any other caster. Pounce isn't bad, and roots works fine as a physical cc. Again, roots does nothing against casters. You can keep them in place but they will still free cast on you.

1. I guess your teammates also have defensives to counter a shammy burst, right? Also you can use some haste in gear if you think 1.94s is too much.
2. About efflorescence, I gues you can report it as a bug, as tooltip says: "Any time your Regrowth or Rejuvenation effects are removed early or replaced...", purge tooltipo says: "Purges the enemy target, removing 2 beneficial magic effects". And dispel magic tooltip says: "Dispels magic on the target, removing 2 harmful spells from a friend or 2 beneficial spells from an enemy".
2. So you want swiftmend and NS with what? 0 sec cd?
3. Its you problem if you dont hide and stand like a cone in front of the rooted caster.
4. Finally, I guess you can keep premading rated arenas if you find it hard to pvp.

[Pixiestixie]

As I see it, you are just trying to PvP with PvE talents and complaining about you being unable to perform good in PvP with those talents you're trying to.

You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect? Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?

You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?

I know Paladins are the most broken class so far now in turtle wow PvP, I know they can tank, DPS and heal at the same time, that they have their bubbles, slow inmunity, magic cleanse, and all, and that they need to be urgent nerfed at PvP. But that doesn't mean that every class needs to be as op as pallys currently are.

"You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect?"

^Regrowth takes 1.94 to cast, which is too long to respond to a shammy's burst.

" Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? "

^ No, you don't understand how efflorescence works. I've specifically tested this and dispeled hots do NOT get a burst of the unfinished hot. How it does work is when a druid overwrites the hot of another druid the target recieves a burst of whatever hot ticks the original hot had left."

"Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?"

^As I said previously if you had read closely, we can only SM every 15 seconds and NS every 3 mins. If a shammy crits a team member outside of that window it takes about 2 seconds to hard cast Regrowth on them, and the target will probably be dead by the time you get it off.

"You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?"

Bash is strong and it the ONLY counter we have to shammies or any other caster. Pounce isn't bad, and roots works fine as a physical cc. Again, roots does nothing against casters. You can keep them in place but they will still free cast on you.

1. I guess your teammates also have defensives to counter a shammy burst, right? Also you can use some haste in gear if you think 1.94s is too much.
2. About efflorescence, I gues you can report it as a bug, as tooltip says: "Any time your Regrowth or Rejuvenation effects are removed early or replaced...", purge tooltipo says: "Purges the enemy target, removing 2 beneficial magic effects". And dispel magic tooltip says: "Dispels magic on the target, removing 2 harmful spells from a friend or 2 beneficial spells from an enemy".
2. So you want swiftmend and NS with what? 0 sec cd?
3. Its you problem if you dont hide and stand like a cone in front of the rooted caster.
4. Finally, I guess you can keep premading rated arenas if you find it hard to pvp.

The fact that you just lost to us does not change the fact that resto druids are currently too weak to be viable healers in rated arenas.

[Forumdweller]

frost mage complaining about not being able to hardcast frostbolts without kiting: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

me, playing arcane mage in pve spec without ice block and it not mattering in the slightest because i fucking oneshot people in polymorph and it still being stronger than immobile warlock that dies every time someone looks at him funny:

[Alienns]

frost mage complaining about not being able to hardcast frostbolts without kiting: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

me, playing arcane mage in pve spec without ice block and it not mattering in the slightest because i fucking oneshot people in polymorph and it still being stronger than immobile warlock that dies every time someone looks at him funny:

That lock have 2k hp?

[Dyco]

"You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect?"

^Regrowth takes 1.94 to cast, which is too long to respond to a shammy's burst.

" Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? "

^ No, you don't understand how efflorescence works. I've specifically tested this and dispeled hots do NOT get a burst of the unfinished hot. How it does work is when a druid overwrites the hot of another druid the target recieves a burst of whatever hot ticks the original hot had left."

"Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?"

^As I said previously if you had read closely, we can only SM every 15 seconds and NS every 3 mins. If a shammy crits a team member outside of that window it takes about 2 seconds to hard cast Regrowth on them, and the target will probably be dead by the time you get it off.

"You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?"

Bash is strong and it the ONLY counter we have to shammies or any other caster. Pounce isn't bad, and roots works fine as a physical cc. Again, roots does nothing against casters. You can keep them in place but they will still free cast on you.

1. I guess your teammates also have defensives to counter a shammy burst, right? Also you can use some haste in gear if you think 1.94s is too much.
2. About efflorescence, I gues you can report it as a bug, as tooltip says: "Any time your Regrowth or Rejuvenation effects are removed early or replaced...", purge tooltipo says: "Purges the enemy target, removing 2 beneficial magic effects". And dispel magic tooltip says: "Dispels magic on the target, removing 2 harmful spells from a friend or 2 beneficial spells from an enemy".
2. So you want swiftmend and NS with what? 0 sec cd?
3. Its you problem if you dont hide and stand like a cone in front of the rooted caster.
4. Finally, I guess you can keep premading rated arenas if you find it hard to pvp.

The fact that you just lost to us does not change the fact that resto druids are currently too weak to be viable healers in rated arenas.

The fact that you think your spec is too weak for rated arenas doesn't mean that it's not viable in rated arenas and that it needs another cc

[Pixiestixie]

1. I guess your teammates also have defensives to counter a shammy burst, right? Also you can use some haste in gear if you think 1.94s is too much.
2. About efflorescence, I gues you can report it as a bug, as tooltip says: "Any time your Regrowth or Rejuvenation effects are removed early or replaced...", purge tooltipo says: "Purges the enemy target, removing 2 beneficial magic effects". And dispel magic tooltip says: "Dispels magic on the target, removing 2 harmful spells from a friend or 2 beneficial spells from an enemy".
2. So you want swiftmend and NS with what? 0 sec cd?
3. Its you problem if you dont hide and stand like a cone in front of the rooted caster.
4. Finally, I guess you can keep premading rated arenas if you find it hard to pvp.

The fact that you just lost to us does not change the fact that resto druids are currently too weak to be viable healers in rated arenas.

The fact that you think your spec is too weak for rated arenas doesn't mean that it's not viable in rated arenas and that it needs another cc

The fact that you don't understand how critical cyclone is to druid teams, especially without Lifebloom, doesn't mean it still isn't going to be critical.

[Dyco]

The fact that you think your spec is too weak for rated arenas, and it needing cyclone to be good at it doesn't actually mean that it's a critical priority spell for your spec to be viable in that scenario. Also you seem to ignore this facts:

1. Your teammates also have defensives to counter a shammy burst.
2. You can use some haste in gear if you think 1.94s is too much.
3. You can root and hide to be not in LOS of the enemy caster. Just pounce, root and hide.

[Agentsmith]

Lmao cyclone and lifebloom made druid OP in TBC and anyone with half a brain knows it. 90% of the ladder became druid/x or druid/x/x. Just go play a tbc server. Druid as a support class is fine here. Dont forget the other healers can all be shut down with curse of tongues, which you can decurse. Nothing about pvp in this game is fair, its rock paper scissors. Learn to play and get a teammate that can cover your weaknesses.

[Flexdraw]

I just don't understand how shamans being broken is an argument for making druids stronger. NERF SHAMANS. There's really nothing complicated about it. "Regrowth takes too long to cast, a shaman will one shot me" yeah well everything takes too long to cast because a shaman will one shot anyone. What's your point? Cyclone's cast is only 0.4 seconds shorter.

We do not need an endless cycle of ridiculous buffs. We need nerfs now.

[boxcar221]

What restos really need is to get rid of stupid restrictions like only casting roots outdoors or inability to cast healing touch while in tree form, i think that would bring a lot to the table for them.

[boxcar221]

Also, without armor bonuses and -20% movement speed while in tree form, there is no point in actually playing resto in pvp, it looks like it's done intentionally. If you wanna pvp heal as a druid, you go humanoid form, utilities and 50/50 balance-resto tree. Like a real hybrid.

[Noephix]

Recently people in TWoW druid discord have crunched some numbers - and it appears that resto druid isn't just a bad PvP spec, it's the worst PvE healer too.
Devs have always claimed that Hots are druid speciality, but guess what? Priest does it better because Renew is just better than Rejuvenation. The only thing druid healers have going for them is a bug (https://turtle-wow.org/bug-report?id=10703). When it gets fixed - there will be no reason to even invite resto to raids, cause other classes just do the same job better.

Seems like druid needs lifebloom both for pve and pvp.

Also this thread is literally bad players telling a competent player how to play the game, lol.

[Pixiestixie]

Recently people in TWoW druid discord have crunched some numbers - and it appears that resto druid isn't just a bad PvP spec, it's the worst PvE healer too.
Devs have always claimed that Hots are druid speciality, but guess what? Priest does it better because Renew is just better than Rejuvenation. The only thing druid healers have going for them is a bug (https://turtle-wow.org/bug-report?id=10703). When it gets fixed - there will be no reason to even invite resto to raids, cause other classes just do the same job better.

Seems like druid needs lifebloom both for pve and pvp.

Also this thread is literally bad players telling a competent player how to play the game, lol.

Elune be praised!

[Naptor]

Also this thread is literally bad players telling a competent player how to play the game, lol.

facts lol

[Flexdraw]

<Boring whining>

Also this thread is literally bad players telling a competent player how to play the game, lol.

OP complained about pvping in tree form, so people naturally honed in on that, as it's something that competent players don't do. OP then said that they don't actually do that. Not sure what they expected.

As for the whiny section of your post, nobody "crunched some numbers" to determine that RDruid is a "bad pvp spec". Druid is fine if you aren't comparing it to shamans and paladins. "Renew is better than rejuv" isn't really an argument, as any "competent player" would be aware of the things that druids bring to PVP that any priest would kill for.

Still not sure how any of this means that druid deserves cyclone. "Druids depended on cyclone in TBC!" yeah and mages depended on spellsteal, water elemental and ice lance. Rogues depended on cloak of shadows, shadowstep, shiv, cheat death, and a two minute blind CD. Priests depended on mass dispel. If you want TBC, go play TBC.

[Pixiestixie]

<Boring whining>

Also this thread is literally bad players telling a competent player how to play the game, lol.

OP complained about pvping in tree form, so people naturally honed in on that, as it's something that competent players don't do. OP then said that they don't actually do that. Not sure what they expected.

As for the whiny section of your post, nobody "crunched some numbers" to determine that RDruid is a "bad pvp spec". Druid is fine if you aren't comparing it to shamans and paladins. "Renew is better than rejuv" isn't really an argument, as any "competent player" would be aware of the things that druids bring to PVP that any priest would kill for.

Still not sure how any of this means that druid deserves cyclone. "Druids depended on cyclone in TBC!" yeah and mages depended on spellsteal, water elemental and ice lance. Rogues depended on cloak of shadows, shadowstep, shiv, cheat death, and a two minute blind CD. Priests depended on mass dispel. If you want TBC, go play TBC.

Tree Form is the solution T'Wow gave to resto druids.
The entire point of the thread is that this solution is not viable.
If I did not play this spec, I could not describe how hard the play style is, and I would have no information to provide here.
I don't know how else to explain it to you.
At least you aren't a dev kek

[Forumdweller]

cyclone is the most op form of CC to ever exist in wow

yes even more op than rogue CC

why?

it makes the target IMMUNE to all spells including heal.

does not belong in vanilla or any other iteration of clasic +

if theres buffs to druid healing it needs to be similar to lifebloom spell, instantly healing the target if purged

biggest problem ally druids are facing is shaman spamming purge every gcd

[Voodoochile]

cyclone is the most op form of CC to ever exist in wow

yes even more op than rogue CC

why?

it makes the target IMMUNE to all spells including heal.

does not belong in vanilla or any other iteration of clasic +

if theres buffs to druid healing it needs to be similar to lifebloom spell, instantly healing the target if purged

biggest problem ally druids are facing is shaman spamming purge every gcd

Twow makes changes to existing spells. Cyclone doesn't NEED to function that way.

[Forumdweller]

many people here clearly asking for tbc version and thinks its ok

many classes dont even have 1 form of CC and druid has multiple already

even more is absurdd for such an already versatile class

if tree form actually made the druid non humanoid and got some form of lifebloom it would be more than enough
extra cc is overkill

[Springboards]

thats fine but then everyone else gets a cc ability too... do we want mages to get deep freeze? see where this is going..

[ForumGentleman]

Resto druid with a proper PvP talent setup is really strong right now

Far from being the worst spec in arena

[Noephix]

as any "competent player" would be aware of the things that druids bring to PVP that any priest would kill for.

Like being completely shut down by offensive dispelling while not having an offensive dispel yourself?
Any type of resto/balance pvp are currently shut down by shamans spamming purge. You press NS - it gets purged. You hot your target - hot gets purged. You try to swiftmend - but you can't because all the hots have been purged. You try to barkskin yourself? Purge.
And that's on top of weaker HoTs, slowest direct heal in the game (healing touch) and pretty mediocre cc options.

thats fine but then everyone else gets a cc ability too... do we want mages to get deep freeze? see where this is going..

Mages already have a polymorph, a spammable slow with 1 sec cast and an AoE instant cast root.

Resto druid with a proper PvP talent setup is really strong right now

Far from being the worst spec in arena

Nice gaslight.

[Zvyrhol]

CC2.5 are needed.

[Pixiestixie]

as any "competent player" would be aware of the things that druids bring to PVP that any priest would kill for.

Like being completely shut down by offensive dispelling while not having an offensive dispel yourself?
Any type of resto/balance pvp are currently shut down by shamans spamming purge. You press NS - it gets purged. You hot your target - hot gets purged. You try to swiftmend - but you can't because all the hots have been purged. You try to barkskin yourself? Purge.
And that's on top of weaker HoTs, slowest direct heal in the game (healing touch) and pretty mediocre cc options.

Preach! THIS is the resto struggle. The main tool we leverage - hots - are useless in pvp b/c they get dispelled left and right.

The funniest reply to this point was the guy who complained that shammies have to spend mana to purge our hots kek

[Atreidon]

Lets just assume for a seond that you need some better toolkit to combat shamans as they are shutting down your toolkit, why should an easily interruptable groundable naturespell be the tool to be added? It does nothing for that matchup specifically, as shamans if well played are the single best class to prevent you getting value from cyclone.

Even granted the claim that druid needs a tool forthe dispell matchups specifically, cyclone isnt even good in one of the two...

[Noephix]

Lets just assume for a seond that you need some better toolkit to combat shamans as they are shutting down your toolkit

Shamans AND priests. And pvp priests are mostly Horde because they don't have to face enemies with WOTF this way.

Cyclone is meant to improve druid's basic toolkit so there's an actual value to bringing a druid instead of literally any other healer. Because currently resto's toolkit is underwhelming AND the easiest one to shut down.

[Pixiestixie]

Lets just assume for a seond that you need some better toolkit to combat shamans as they are shutting down your toolkit

Shamans AND priests. And pvp priests are mostly Horde because they don't have to face enemies with WOTF this way.

Excellent, critical point!

A MAJOR reason why Horde are dominant in pvp is because they do not have to face a team with endless offensive dispels!

Horde do not walk into wsg and face an 8 shammy, 2 loc team. This means 80% of your opponents can dispel your hots!!!!

I know the people arguing that druids have too much CC already (kek) don't want druids to be capable of competing with them, and don't want us to be hard to kill. Because, making pvp more fair for druids would deprive you of an (unfair) advantage.

But please, if you guys have any sense of good sportsmanship, have the basic decency to face reality: Having access to TWO offensive dispels gives Horde an advantage that extends beyond the purview of the impotence of resto druid.