Druids Need Cyclone to Compete in Rated Arenas

[Pixiestixie]

Dear T WoW Devs and fellow Players,

Resto druid is so weak we will not be included on high-rated 3s teams. Take one look at Priests, Pallies and Shammies and you'll see why.

No one will want to bring us, and none of us will get a chance at a high rank, because Druids do not have a tool set that enables us to be competitive.

And I don't want to be excluded from playing with my friends because my class is gimped!

I know T WoW cares more than this about resto Druids, because you gave us Tree Form. However, it is incomplete.

The easiest way to make resto druids attractive is to give us Cyclone.

Before the cries of "Cylone is too OP it will break the game!" come out, let's review resto's weaknesses.

1. No offensive dispel
2. No mitigation
3. Can only heal burst fast if SM or NS HT are off of CD.
4. No dispel protection for our hots

So why bother playing resto druid? What strategy can be enabled by our unique talents? Historically, the class has "hot and run". We can partially do this with Rejuv and Regrowth, however, we need Lifebloom to be able to properly execute this strategy.

With Cyclone a druid team has a shot of gaining control, and that is enough to make competitive players consider bringing their resto druid friends to heal areneas.

Please add Cyclone to the game before rated 3s come out! Furthermore, I ask you to please give us Lifebloom as well, and failing that, at least make our hots un-dispellable / purgable. We need LB to pre-hot dps who are going aggressive, which is another key strat of our spec.

Cyclone and Lifebloom were part of the original toolkit Tree From resto druids had in TBC. Please add them to make our class functional, competitive, rewarding and FUN again.

Thank you very much for a wonderful game and for reading this!

[Orlymike2]

I think adding Lifebloom but tree form only may help.

[Elleshar]

I have said this too for like over a year but seen no changes to it so I wouldn't get my hopes up, nice to see however more people come to the same conclusions.

I think worst case scenario there are always other classic+ projects where these abilities are available if you enjoy pvping as rdruid.

[Warrior37]

true, resto druids don’t have what they need for 3v3 right now. No Cyclone = no real way to stop or control the match, and the other healers have op spells to make up for their weaknesses (PALADIN BUBBLE >_>). Tree form without cyclone or lifebloom feels half-baked, their HoTs get purged easy, and they don’t have big heals or utility to make up for it except running around rooting people till they get oneshot by a warrior. If nothing changes, most people just won’t bring them to super sweat teams.

[Gantulga]

Actually insane.

[Naptor]

Don't make the HoTs undispelable, but life bloom and cyclone will be needed period for Resto druids in arena at a minimum.

[Forumdweller]

big funny :)

[Flexdraw]

Please buff hybrids they're really struggling guys :( they need to be able to perform every role at the same time, preferably at a higher level than any class that's locked into one individual role, and with greater ease. The best CC in the game would also be a welcome addition.

Just keep comparing hybrids to other hybrids and then take turns buffing them accordingly.

The sky's the limit!

[Pixiestixie]

Please buff hybrids they're really struggling guys :( they need to be able to perform every role at the same time, preferably at a higher level than any class that's locked into one individual role, and with greater ease. The best CC in the game would also be a welcome addition.

Just keep comparing hybrids to other hybrids and then take turns buffing them accordingly.

The sky's the limit!

Pallies and Shammies will get to heal arena, but not Druids!

We're getting screwed.

[Meekster]

I've always noticed so few resto druids in general. These changes could make it more attractive to people wanting to play this role :D.

[Gs2knsxr750]

Absolutely agree with this. As it stands, resto druids are just too limited to keep up in competitive 3s. Watching priests fear, shammies purge, and paladins bubble while we just hope for a lucky NS+HT isn’t viable. Cyclone would give us a real tool to play with tempo instead of just reacting and slowly falling behind. Lifebloom would also help enable the “hot and run” style that makes resto druid unique.

Right now, it honestly feels like playing resto is a disadvantage in any serious setting. Please consider giving us the missing tools that made Tree Form viable back in TBC. It would mean a lot to us druids who love the spec and want to play it with our friends in the arena.

Thanks for your hard work on Turtle WoW and for listening to the community!

[Drubarrymooer]

Please buff hybrids they're really struggling guys :( they need to be able to perform every role at the same time, preferably at a higher level than any class that's locked into one individual role, and with greater ease. The best CC in the game would also be a welcome addition.

Just keep comparing hybrids to other hybrids and then take turns buffing them accordingly.

The sky's the limit!

Pretty much this. Cyclone was busted in TBC. Lets not bring it here. Druids are really good as is in pvp

[Bigsmerf]

Cyclone would add to the strength of every druid spec/playstyle. You're making a situation worse by making the oppressive picks even more oppressive with this. You want dispel resist on your hots? Just ask for a talent that'll do that and call it a day. Boom. Your problems are solved.

[Voodoochile]

Cyclone would add to the strength of every druid spec/playstyle. You're making a situation worse by making the oppressive picks even more oppressive with this. You want dispel resist on your hots? Just ask for a talent that'll do that and call it a day. Boom. Your problems are solved.

you could just as easily make a talent deep in resto that gives cyclone.

[Atreidon]

Bark Skin, Bear Form, Prowl, Roots and Natures Grasp are great forms of personal damage mitigation. He is also uniquely well armed to fight against interrupt heavy combos by virtue of a above average set of instant spells.

if you want tbc go play tbc. But keep cyclone out of twow. Pvp here is already shit enough without a spamable 6 seconds timeout spell if ttk is 2 seconds...

In tbc people are realistically able to survive a 10.5sek cc chain on their teammate. On twow an instant cast cclone wins you the game on the spot

[Pixiestixie]

Bark Skin, Bear Form, Prowl, Roots and Natures Grasp are great forms of personal damage mitigation. He is also uniquely well armed to fight against interrupt heavy combos by virtue of a above average set of instant spells.

if you want tbc go play tbc. But keep cyclone out of twow. Pvp here is already shit enough without a spamable 6 seconds timeout spell if ttk is 2 seconds...

In tbc people are realistically able to survive a 10.5sek cc chain on their teammate. On twow an instant cast cclone wins you the game on the spot

When I say "mitigation" I don't mean personal mitigation, obviously. I am referring to the fact that priests and pallies have bubbles. Further Barkskin only reduces 20% of physical and it's garbage. Roots, Prowl, Bear Form and NG are not mitigation spells.

[Pixiestixie]

Please buff hybrids they're really struggling guys :( they need to be able to perform every role at the same time, preferably at a higher level than any class that's locked into one individual role, and with greater ease. The best CC in the game would also be a welcome addition.

Just keep comparing hybrids to other hybrids and then take turns buffing them accordingly.

The sky's the limit!

Pretty much this. Cyclone was busted in TBC. Lets not bring it here. Druids are really good as is in pvp

Resto druids are not OP in pvp. What are you talking about? We are ridiculously weak! No one even wants us in BGs much less rated areanas.

Look, I've tried to use this shitty half assed Tree Form as much as any one human can. But it's not very effective.

Yeah it's passive raid healing. And 4 times a minute we can heal burst with SM and once every 3 mins with a NT macro.

Now is that fair against shammies and locs that one shot? When we CANNOT interrupt or do anything to counter an incoming 1 shot? Do you expect a hot that ticks for even 600 to heal someone after a lava burst??? You are asking us to do the impossible.

[Pixiestixie]

If a druid healer needs to heal bursty damage, which there will be a lot of in arena, we can ONLY do it 4 times a minute and once ever 3 mins. If your team happens to be outside of that window, YOU"RE FUCKED.

Imagine your most IMPORTANT spell, the one that defines your class, CAN BE DISPELLED. That is what it's like having Rejuv or Regroth dispelled.

DRUIDS' KEY SPELLS ARE IMPOTENT IN T HE FACE OF SHAMMIES AND PRIESTS.

Imagine having your spell deleted.

Now tell me how this is fair?

[Cosmico]

You will get an enhancement for your character class, let's be hopefull!

[Macbetto]

The problem is that you want to pvp in tree form. Druid already have good feats. You can go resto/balance for spamming roots, dots and hots. Or you can go resto/feral for more survivability and a spell interrupt with feral charge. These both spec work well in arena and are fun to play imo.
The point of playing druid in pvp is to always swap form, sticking to tree form and only heal will be always worse no matter if you have cyclone or not.

[Pixiestixie]

The problem is that you want to pvp in tree form. Druid already have good feats. You can go resto/balance for spamming roots, dots and hots. Or you can go resto/feral for more survivability and a spell interrupt with feral charge. These both spec work well in arena and are fun to play imo.
The point of playing druid in pvp is to always swap form, sticking to tree form and only heal will be always worse no matter if you have cyclone or not.

No, the problem is not that I want to PVP in Tree Form.

I understand how to make a pvp spec without Tree Form. If I DID want to complain about Tree Form, I'd point out that it's missing the armor bonus that helps us in arena.

If you DON'T use Tree Form, you ignore the ONLY buff T WoW has given Resto Druid. And it's just as shitty as on any other vanilla server. Why would you NOT use the 1 buff to your class the devs gave you? Aren't we supposed to work with the tools the devs give us?

Now, do you think anyone would take a vanilla resto druid to rated 3s?

[Flexdraw]

I don't see how cyclone even solves your complaints. Shaman drops grounding totem and starts casting chain lightning, you're dead before the second cast of cyclone. No, people will probably not enjoy arenas as druids, or as most classes, because shamans and paladins are the main characters on this server, and seemingly always will be.

You should be advocating for nerfs to overtuned classes, not suggesting an arms race of abilities from future expansions. If you have time to cyclone, just walk around a pillar. It's what made HoTs good in TBC arena, and purge was around then, too.

[Mitzter]

Ideally you'd have teammates that can CC instead of you and have that covered so you can do your job. Obviously if you're playing a melee cleave with no CC you're screwed with only one gameplan available - nuke the everliving shit out of everything. But melee cleaves are better with paladins or shamans anyway. As a resto druid you can be playing a spellcleave with ample amounts of available CC, or with a Rogue, in order to have that covered. I don't see a need to give resto druids Cyclone when roots on their own are powerful enough in vanilla, especially with proper coordination.

Druids will be picked for heavy mobile gameplay where a lot of running, kiting and resetting can be done in order to finesse a win.

[Pixiestixie]

I don't see how cyclone even solves your complaints. Shaman drops grounding totem and starts casting chain lightning, you're dead before the second cast of cyclone. No, people will probably not enjoy arenas as druids, or as most classes, because shamans and paladins are the main characters on this server, and seemingly always will be.

You should be advocating for nerfs to overtuned classes, not suggesting an arms race of abilities from future expansions. If you have time to cyclone, just walk around a pillar. It's what made HoTs good in TBC arena, and purge was around then, too.

Because Cyclone is strong enough that you can roll teams with a druid healer. For example, if I try to do rogue, mage, druid the comp isn't going to work because a key ability is missing.

Every 3s comp that takes a druid leverages Cyclone. Without it, we have NOTHING competitive to offer. There are 0 reasons to play a resto druid when every other healer has far more utility and a more useful healing strategy!

[Drubarrymooer]

Please buff hybrids they're really struggling guys :( they need to be able to perform every role at the same time, preferably at a higher level than any class that's locked into one individual role, and with greater ease. The best CC in the game would also be a welcome addition.

Just keep comparing hybrids to other hybrids and then take turns buffing them accordingly.

The sky's the limit!

Pretty much this. Cyclone was busted in TBC. Lets not bring it here. Druids are really good as is in pvp

Resto druids are not OP in pvp. What are you talking about? We are ridiculously weak! No one even wants us in BGs much less rated areanas.

Look, I've tried to use this shitty half assed Tree Form as much as any one human can. But it's not very effective.

Yeah it's passive raid healing. And 4 times a minute we can heal burst with SM and once every 3 mins with a NT macro.

Now is that fair against shammies and locs that one shot? When we CANNOT interrupt or do anything to counter an incoming 1 shot? Do you expect a hot that ticks for even 600 to heal someone after a lava burst??? You are asking us to do the impossible.

Cyclone was busted in tbc and you want it here because of your inability to play the class correctly. It's that simple. You have access to all your forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. You're basically un-cc-able and you want even more control over the battlefield. That simply isn't realistic or even good gameplay. This is purely a player issue.

[Pixiestixie]

Pretty much this. Cyclone was busted in TBC. Lets not bring it here. Druids are really good as is in pvp

Resto druids are not OP in pvp. What are you talking about? We are ridiculously weak! No one even wants us in BGs much less rated areanas.

Look, I've tried to use this shitty half assed Tree Form as much as any one human can. But it's not very effective.

Yeah it's passive raid healing. And 4 times a minute we can heal burst with SM and once every 3 mins with a NT macro.

Now is that fair against shammies and locs that one shot? When we CANNOT interrupt or do anything to counter an incoming 1 shot? Do you expect a hot that ticks for even 600 to heal someone after a lava burst??? You are asking us to do the impossible.

Cyclone was busted in tbc and you want it here because of your inability to play the class correctly. It's that simple. You have access to all your forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. You're basically un-cc-able and you want even more control over the battlefield. That simply isn't realistic or even good gameplay. This is purely a player issue.

"Cyclone was busted in tbc" is just your opinion. Somehow this "busted" spell is still in the game, to this day. How odd that Blizz would keep a busted spell for 20 years?

"This is purely a player issue." is another opinion. "forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. " if these measures, which mostly counter PHYSICAL damage only were effective, why did Blizz give us cyclone when they implemented arena? Because they NEW unless they buffed our class with SOME kind of tactical advantage the player base would not bring druids to high rated 3s, because there would be no druid healers in high rated 3s. We simply don't have the tool kit to get there.

You can keep insulting me all you like but it doesn't change the fact that a vamilla druid, even with t wow's buff to r druids ie Tree Form, is incapable of being a competitive healer in rated 3s.

If even the most talented resto druid on the server makes it to Glad, I'll pay you all my gold. I"m not too worried about losing my gold though, because I can clearly see there won't be high rated r druids.

This is going to be like Cata again for resto druids. NO ONE would even bring us to RBGs. IT FUCKING SUCKS.

[Doger]

good idea

[Drubarrymooer]

Resto druids are not OP in pvp. What are you talking about? We are ridiculously weak! No one even wants us in BGs much less rated areanas.

Look, I've tried to use this shitty half assed Tree Form as much as any one human can. But it's not very effective.

Yeah it's passive raid healing. And 4 times a minute we can heal burst with SM and once every 3 mins with a NT macro.

Now is that fair against shammies and locs that one shot? When we CANNOT interrupt or do anything to counter an incoming 1 shot? Do you expect a hot that ticks for even 600 to heal someone after a lava burst??? You are asking us to do the impossible.

Cyclone was busted in tbc and you want it here because of your inability to play the class correctly. It's that simple. You have access to all your forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. You're basically un-cc-able and you want even more control over the battlefield. That simply isn't realistic or even good gameplay. This is purely a player issue.

"Cyclone was busted in tbc" is just your opinion. Somehow this "busted" spell is still in the game, to this day. How odd that Blizz would keep a busted spell for 20 years?

"This is purely a player issue." is another opinion. "forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. " if these measures, which mostly counter PHYSICAL damage only were effective, why did Blizz give us cyclone when they implemented arena? Because they NEW unless they buffed our class with SOME kind of tactical advantage the player base would not bring druids to high rated 3s, because there would be no druid healers in high rated 3s. We simply don't have the tool kit to get there.

You can keep insulting me all you like but it doesn't change the fact that a vamilla druid, even with t wow's buff to r druids ie Tree Form, is incapable of being a competitive healer in rated 3s.

If even the most talented resto druid on the server makes it to Glad, I'll pay you all my gold. I"m not too worried about losing my gold though, because I can clearly see there won't be high rated r druids.

This is going to be like Cata again for resto druids. NO ONE would even bring us to RBGs. IT FUCKING SUCKS.

OMG it's almost like they've had 20 years and 100 expansions to balance the game out.

This is not tbc. This is vanilla, or vanilla plus if you really want to be pedantic about it. Tbc added several things to every classes toolkit, resilience, etc. Cyclone was widely regarded as busted back in the day and there are even threads on blizz forums, Reddit, etc complaining about the same thing. It was very op, especially in arenas. It basically takes out one player for the entire right. You yourself even said something along the lines of "druids with cyclone would roll over non druid teams". You want your basically already op class to be even more op. I've mained a druid here for ~3 years and we are already S, or maybe even A tier with some of the PVP nerfs we've gotten.

As I said before. This is a player skill issue. I'm sorry if that offends you but that is what it is. Feel free to go on a long diatribe here as well, as I won't be responding further. I'm not going to waste my time/breath explaining something that you simply refuse to accept/understand.

[Pixiestixie]

Cyclone was busted in tbc and you want it here because of your inability to play the class correctly. It's that simple. You have access to all your forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. You're basically un-cc-able and you want even more control over the battlefield. That simply isn't realistic or even good gameplay. This is purely a player issue.

"Cyclone was busted in tbc" is just your opinion. Somehow this "busted" spell is still in the game, to this day. How odd that Blizz would keep a busted spell for 20 years?

"This is purely a player issue." is another opinion. "forms, roots, shift out of movement impairing effects/cc, etc. " if these measures, which mostly counter PHYSICAL damage only were effective, why did Blizz give us cyclone when they implemented arena? Because they NEW unless they buffed our class with SOME kind of tactical advantage the player base would not bring druids to high rated 3s, because there would be no druid healers in high rated 3s. We simply don't have the tool kit to get there.

You can keep insulting me all you like but it doesn't change the fact that a vamilla druid, even with t wow's buff to r druids ie Tree Form, is incapable of being a competitive healer in rated 3s.

If even the most talented resto druid on the server makes it to Glad, I'll pay you all my gold. I"m not too worried about losing my gold though, because I can clearly see there won't be high rated r druids.

This is going to be like Cata again for resto druids. NO ONE would even bring us to RBGs. IT FUCKING SUCKS.

OMG it's almost like they've had 20 years and 100 expansions to balance the game out.

This is not tbc. This is vanilla, or vanilla plus if you really want to be pedantic about it. Tbc added several things to every classes toolkit, resilience, etc. Cyclone was widely regarded as busted back in the day and there are even threads on blizz forums, Reddit, etc complaining about the same thing. It was very op, especially in arenas. It basically takes out one player for the entire right. You yourself even said something along the lines of "druids with cyclone would roll over non druid teams". You want your basically already op class to be even more op. I've mained a druid here for ~3 years and we are already S, or maybe even A tier with some of the PVP nerfs we've gotten.

As I said before. This is a player skill issue. I'm sorry if that offends you but that is what it is. Feel free to go on a long diatribe here as well, as I won't be responding further. I'm not going to waste my time/breath explaining something that you simply refuse to accept/understand.

" You yourself even said something along the lines of "druids with cyclone would roll over non druid teams"."

When you quote someone, you should write what they actually said, because I did not say this at all.

"I've mained a druid here for ~3 years and we are already S, or maybe even A tier with some of the PVP nerfs we've gotten. " We have enough tools to get by currently in bgs, but with shammies / priests dispelling our hots, no purge, inadequate burst heals, we will not be able to progress to high-rated arenas because we simply don't have the tools to compete. It's going to be as bad as Cata.

"This is a player skill issue... Feel free to go on a long diatribe here as well, as I won't be responding further. "

I"ll take your silence as complicity then. No amount of player skill can compensate for the following deficiencies.

1. No offensive dispel
2. No mitigation
3. Can only heal burst fast if SM or NS HT are off of CD.
4. No dispel protection for our hots

[Atreidon]

Where are all these delulu self proclaimed gladiators coming from in the last couple months? Which server went bust?

Twow used to always have bad pvp takes, but they have gotten much much worse in recent months

[Naptor]

Pix is saying a very interesting thing, the devs should definitely look it up

[Idontcareatall]

Sure.

And I need frostbolt and holy shock on my war to be able to compete. I also don't want to feel gimped and excluded because I can't heal and do range damage.

-1

[Cheruscan]

Dear T WoW Devs and fellow Players,

Resto druid is so weak we will not be included on high-rated 3s teams. Take one look at Priests, Pallies and Shammies and you'll see why.

No one will want to bring us, and none of us will get a chance at a high rank, because Druids do not have a tool set that enables us to be competitive.

And I don't want to be excluded from playing with my friends because my class is gimped!

I know T WoW cares more than this about resto Druids, because you gave us Tree Form. However, it is incomplete.

The easiest way to make resto druids attractive is to give us Cyclone.

Before the cries of "Cylone is too OP it will break the game!" come out, let's review resto's weaknesses.

1. No offensive dispel
2. No mitigation
3. Can only heal burst fast if SM or NS HT are off of CD.
4. No dispel protection for our hots

So why bother playing resto druid? What strategy can be enabled by our unique talents? Historically, the class has "hot and run". We can partially do this with Rejuv and Regrowth, however, we need Lifebloom to be able to properly execute this strategy.

With Cyclone a druid team has a shot of gaining control, and that is enough to make competitive players consider bringing their resto druid friends to heal areneas.

Please add Cyclone to the game before rated 3s come out! Furthermore, I ask you to please give us Lifebloom as well, and failing that, at least make our hots un-dispellable / purgable. We need LB to pre-hot dps who are going aggressive, which is another key strat of our spec.

Cyclone and Lifebloom were part of the original toolkit Tree From resto druids had in TBC. Please add them to make our class functional, competitive, rewarding and FUN again.

Thank you very much for a wonderful game and for reading this!

You seem to forget that you do actually play a class that can do other things than heal, druids versatility makes it an absolute beast in PvP but sure if you want to shackle yourself to being a slow widdly piece of timber you wont have fun, why even bother going full mono spec when hybrid speccing is the way to go for druid PvP?

[Dyco]

As I see it, you are just trying to PvP with PvE talents and complaining about you being unable to perform good in PvP with those talents you're trying to.

You complain about priest/shaman dispelling your hots, but, doesn't regrowth have a direct healing component effect? Doesn't druids have a efflorescence passive spell which instantly heals friendly target 50% of the hot dispelled? Doesn't druids have swiftmend? Doesn't druids have nature's swiftness?

You complain about lack of cc druids have, but didn't they have pounce, bash and roots?

I know Paladins are the most broken class so far now in turtle wow PvP, I know they can tank, DPS and heal at the same time, that they have their bubbles, slow inmunity, magic cleanse, and all, and that they need to be urgent nerfed at PvP. But that doesn't mean that every class needs to be as op as pallys currently are.

[Pixiestixie]

Sure.

And I need frostbolt and holy shock on my war to be able to compete. I also don't want to feel gimped and excluded because I can't heal and do range damage.

-1

The difference is it's realistic for a Druid to want to heal arena.

Resto doesn't "feel" gimped, it IS gimped.

Finally this is an absurd argument as there is no rationale or precedent for giving a pally frostbolt. There is both a rationale and precedent for givng druids Cyclone.