Shaman Rework Proposal

[Akarui]

ok. let's continue the madness carousel and add a pwn button to all classes
Rogue. If Sinister Strike misses/blocks/parries/dodges - the next backstab can be used without spending energy
Mage. If Firebolt resists/misses, then the next Fireblast has an instant cast and 0 mana.
Hunter. If Aimed Shot misses/dodges, then you can immediately shoot another one instantly and without spending mana.
Warlock. I don't even know. If Shadow Bolt gain resist, then you can instantly cast Soul Fire without spending Soul Shards.
It's so cool to win even if you were unlucky once.

Rogue have a fuck ton of free hit chance within their talent trees as well as a fuck ton of cc in their Base kit. they don't need an "Overpower"
Mages have Arcane Surge
Hunters have Mongoose Strike
Warlocks also have a fuckton of free hit for their dots as well as have hard cc with no cd in the form of fear, and they also have Death Coil which is instacast and puts an enhanced fear on the target that cannot be cleansed. Also they have Nightfall procs which makes Shadowbolt instant cast.

rogues pay for that with weak survivability. Mages too. No heal no armor low hp. just cool collection of spells. This is not easy to use right spell for right situation. Hunters look trashie after cc2. just a mess. Fear has cast time. Death coil 2min CD. Nightfall sometimes procs 1-2 per hour, and what? Shadowburst better and has only 10s cd

Shaman is a combined class. Unlike Druids, Shadow Priests, he has no restrictions on healing if he chose the role of DD. Unlike hunters, it does not drop much in efficiency without totems. Unlike all classes, it has a rich arsenal of buffs for the entire party (totems). I think shamans cannot and should not be considered as a full DD. This is DD + support and CC2 is the biggest mistake at the moment and a disaster for balance. In best case, shamans should be strongly nerfed, and the bonuses from totems for shamans should be strengthened. Then the class will retain its peculiarity. And to make another caster or MDD from shaman - no, this is nonsense.

Druids and Spriests also have multiple forms of hard CC, and they have the same limitation on healing as Shaman does except that a Shaman has no peel in his base kit. Ele Shaman already is not a full on dps, but even if it were, my proposal, the OP, is replacing damage with utility. You are legitimately not addressing any points within the rework

Just suggest something that fits to the class concept. Not a full DD by default.

For example, what I mean. Rogues need to get a combo in battle, Warriors need to get rage. Warlocks need to pile up dots. Paladins need a seal and speed up (I forgot the name). All classes need to haste before they can do their max dps.
And only enh shamans are special now. Windfury totem, and bang, a stormstrike with a windfury proc right away. And if at least one attack misses, the next one will fly in a couple of seconds. Enhas now have more dps than fury warriors and mages. Up to lvl 30 is normal. After 30lvl, a complete trash begins. 60+% dmg from autoattacks+wf. Spec of one buff and one button.
Do you want the same for elems? No thanks. One crooked characters update was enough.
A shaman has totems. His strength should be in the correct use of totems and in the bonuses that totems give directly to the shaman. And without totems, the shaman's damage should be like that of hunters without pets. And then it will be an interesting class. And not for little children. Press one button and you're happy. And if you're not happy, press it again and you'll get a cookie. Let's think together how we can make a class both interesting and competitive. Because I would also really like to remember my childhood and play as a shaman. But not as a children's class like in Draenor

[.biggs]

I love ur post, especially ur use of colours. shaman could be the most fun melee class if a few changes were made. my suggestions are to allow certain totems to slowly follow the caster and some kind of mana on hit with Water Shield as opposed to gaining mana when you're hit.

[Guillaume]

As expected, you dropped the "fleshing out Shaman's class identity" act and just started to demand things other classes have while making zero meaningful concessions to address the op nature of this bloated, beyond-hybrid class. Guess "shaman envy" theory was correct, you guys really want to be CC1 paladins.

Spriests also have multiple forms of hard CC

lol, lmao, lmfao even. This take right there is why you should honestly be kept away from reworking anything in this game.

[Voodoochile]

As expected, you dropped the "fleshing out Shaman's class identity" act and just started to demand things other classes have while making zero meaningful concessions to address the op nature of this bloated, beyond-hybrid class. Guess "shaman envy" theory was correct, you guys really want to be CC1 paladins.

Spriests also have multiple forms of hard CC

lol, lmao, lmfao even. This take right there is why you should honestly be kept away from reworking anything in this game.

How about you name specifically the things you are claiming instead of vague balling it so we can have a constructive conversation. But you aren't going to because your arguments all lack substance, and are purely an outlet for your personal anger.

Also Shadow Priests have Mind Control, Psychic Scream, Silence, which for casters may as well be hard cc, and a chance to stun on EVERY. SINGLE. SHADOW DAMAGE SPELL with their blackout talent.

Like, are you dense? Y'know what, don't answer that. Any answer you give attempting to refute it will make the truth more obvious.

[Voodoochile]

ok. let's continue the madness carousel and add a pwn button to all classes
Rogue. If Sinister Strike misses/blocks/parries/dodges - the next backstab can be used without spending energy
Mage. If Firebolt resists/misses, then the next Fireblast has an instant cast and 0 mana.
Hunter. If Aimed Shot misses/dodges, then you can immediately shoot another one instantly and without spending mana.
Warlock. I don't even know. If Shadow Bolt gain resist, then you can instantly cast Soul Fire without spending Soul Shards.
It's so cool to win even if you were unlucky once.

Rogue have a fuck ton of free hit chance within their talent trees as well as a fuck ton of cc in their Base kit. they don't need an "Overpower"
Mages have Arcane Surge
Hunters have Mongoose Strike
Warlocks also have a fuckton of free hit for their dots as well as have hard cc with no cd in the form of fear, and they also have Death Coil which is instacast and puts an enhanced fear on the target that cannot be cleansed. Also they have Nightfall procs which makes Shadowbolt instant cast.

rogues pay for that with weak survivability. Mages too. No heal no armor low hp. just cool collection of spells. This is not easy to use right spell for right situation. Hunters look trashie after cc2. just a mess. Fear has cast time. Death coil 2min CD. Nightfall sometimes procs 1-2 per hour, and what? Shadowburst better and has only 10s cd

There. is no way. I just read that ROGUES have weak survivability with high base dodge stat, Evasion, Vanish, every fucking CC under the sun, and Sprint. You realize that evasion alone allows they to tank Naxx raid bosses for its duration, right?

Mages HAVE an armor spell, like every other cloth caster. But even if they didnt they have Fire and Frost Ward, Mana Shield, Ice Barrier, and Ice Block if we are purely talking damage mitigation, but they also have Blink, Poly, Frost Nova, CoC, Frostbolt, and Counterspell, AND/OR a chance to stun on fire spells.

Warlocks have Soul Link, Sacrifice, Siphon Life, Life Drain, Fear (1.5 sec cast), Howl of Terror (2 sec cast), a 26% chance to stun on 4 separate fire spells, and a Succubus with Charm, or a Felhunter with free resistances to themself and silences.

And what does the Shaman have? Mail armor. Sometimes they equip a shield. They have an instacast spell on a 3 minute cd that they can heal themself with. They can slow you (very annoying). They have 3 baseline dmg abilities that are instacast, but they all share the same 5-6s cd. If they cast for 1-3seconds they can run at 40% speed but casting anything breaks it.

Shaman is a combined class. Unlike Druids, Shadow Priests, he has no restrictions on healing if he chose the role of DD. Unlike hunters, it does not drop much in efficiency without totems. Unlike all classes, it has a rich arsenal of buffs for the entire party (totems). I think shamans cannot and should not be considered as a full DD. This is DD + support and CC2 is the biggest mistake at the moment and a disaster for balance. In best case, shamans should be strongly nerfed, and the bonuses from totems for shamans should be strengthened. Then the class will retain its peculiarity. And to make another caster or MDD from shaman - no, this is nonsense.

Druids and Spriests also have multiple forms of hard CC, and they have the same limitation on healing as Shaman does except that a Shaman has no peel in his base kit. Ele Shaman already is not a full on dps, but even if it were, my proposal, the OP, is replacing damage with utility. You are legitimately not addressing any points within the rework

Just suggest something that fits to the class concept. Not a full DD by default.

Do you want the same for elems? No thanks. One crooked characters update was enough.
A shaman has totems. His strength should be in the correct use of totems and in the bonuses that totems give directly to the shaman. And without totems, the shaman's damage should be like that of hunters without pets. And then it will be an interesting class. And not for little children. Press one button and you're happy. And if you're not happy, press it again and you'll get a cookie. Let's think together how we can make a class both interesting and competitive. Because I would also really like to remember my childhood and play as a shaman. But not as a children's class like in Draenor

Shaman already are punished in their damage by not using their totems in the same way that hunters are. Ele that don't use their fire totems lose out on something like 15% of their dmg output but twow doesn't have a way for the dmg meters to track it.

And I explicitly put changes in the rework that give Shaman incentive to do more than 1 button spam in this Elemental Mastery ability that you are so adamantly against for some fkn reason and in reducing the raw dps of LB and CL and adding debuffs on Spirit Link and reducing CL cd when you apply Lightning Shield to allies.

I have put my ideas forward. And you dm me about working together for Shaman concepts but all you have done is criticize without any contribution, comparing this somehow to mobile-game

I would like to suggest u, that we analyze and think together how to improve the class, based on its lore and original concept. And then write it in the proposals on the forum. I would like to play as a shaman myself, remember my childhood . But not with primitive gameplay at the level of mobile games

It is baffling, genuinely. I can't tell if I am being trolled or not.

[Akarui]

no im not trolling u. im realy serious. Just dont want annoying boring Draenor 2 in classic setting. PWN button - is bad idea anyway. class of one buff - is much worse.

[Cecilc]

You also forgot that shaman’s “OP” interrupt is 20 yards
Unless you expect me to Walk up to a mage so they can blink further away once more then I have to walk up AGAIN to interupt their frost bolt then I cast lightning bolt or chain just to get counter spelled and locked out of 95% of my spells

[boxcar221]

Shaman is a combined class. Unlike Druids, Shadow Priests, he has no restrictions on healing if he chose the role of DD. Unlike hunters, it does not drop much in efficiency without totems. Unlike all classes, it has a rich arsenal of buffs for the entire party (totems). I think shamans cannot and should not be considered as a full DD. This is DD + support and CC2 is the biggest mistake at the moment and a disaster for balance. In best case, shamans should be strongly nerfed, and the bonuses from totems for shamans should be strengthened. Then the class will retain its peculiarity. And to make another caster or MDD from shaman - no, this is nonsense.

Seems to me that you are an allie whos generally pwned by shamans in PVP and wants them to be cucked back to vanilla-style put your WF tot down and shut up kinda gameplay.

We shamans dont want to be straight buffers for all you "poompers" wearing shields and SPD wep when the whole Enhancement original idea, even in its blizz-state, screams of oneshotting people. If you let enhancer get close its your problem and your a n00b and should reside at GY constantly.

Elementals, the same. No multiple dots, no hard CCs, no defense buttons. Designed to crit and kill.

Healing while not specced and geared for healing is irrelevant and the higher the players status, the less relevant baseline heals get.

Your opinoing is dum and bad my opiniin issmart and good.

[Akarui]

Enhancement original idea, even in its blizz-state, screams of oneshotting people. If you let enhancer get close its your problem and your a n00b and should reside at GY constantly.

Elementals, the same. No multiple dots, no hard CCs, no defense buttons. Designed to crit and kill.

Your opinoing is dum and bad my opiniin issmart and good.

brainless spec with one PWN button is a big mistake and should be fixed. Shaman is NOT a raid boss
Are you sure you're not confusing an ENH shaman with a warrior or a rogue? Or maybe a shaman from another game.
I understand that rogues and feral druids in cat form shouldn't be approaching shamans at all.
For those who can't read well, I'll repeat myself
I played a shaman from version 1.8.2 until Draenor. Until they made it a primitive class for kids.
When I was a kid, it was funny and fun for me to see big numbers and kill all the casters with 2 hits. Now I understand that this is stupid and doesn't correspond to a normal game. Maybe in chinese mobile MMOs, this would be quite normal.
You can find the original idea of ​​a shaman in Warcraft 3. Google how shamans appeared in WoW and the questions will disappear.
Shamans now from 30 lvl is a top DPS and 70% of their dmg is an autoattack+WF. And most of them even doesnt use more than 1 totem. WF totem, WF buff. and thats all. its a shame, disaster for balance, brainless spec. It MUST be fixed

[Terrydavis]

balancing shamans is very easy:

-remove critical damage, add damage over time. shaman shocks do more damage than my 2 second casts

-remove WF proccing itself, add a cd like smite, add damage over time instead

-remove chain lightning entirely, remove chain healing entirely
these are hands down the strongest spells in the game right now for no reason
replace chain lightning with some rain of fire like ability
replace chain heal with single target heal

-nerf shaman healing outside of resto tree by 30% like you did with priests

and thats it. it wouldnt even hurt PVE shamans.


-> you have no idea how hard shamans delete alliance in pvp right now. alliance is so scared they dont attack at all anymore. its impossible to save someone from a shaman attack since they are dead in less than 3 seconds, usually you dont get enough time to cast a single heal meanwhile in that time a shaman clubs them down from 100 to 0. this gets more aids the more shamans are around. when i see the horde side is again 50% shaman it just makes me give up honestly, no one can win against this. shamans join bgs in full consumes now because theyre so unkillable, you die long before you can do anything against them. shamans go in 1 vs 3 and they win

feel free to explain to me why chain lightning does over 4000+ damage over 60 yards around LOS with a little 2 second cast. (single target its 2800)

[Voodoochile]

-remove WF proccing itself, add a cd like smite

This hasnt been a thing since 2004, bro.

balancing shamans is very easy:

-remove critical damage, add damage over time. shaman shocks do more damage than my 2 second casts

-remove chain lightning entirely, remove chain healing entirely
these are hands down the strongest spells in the game right now for no reason
replace chain lightning with some rain of fire like ability
replace chain heal with single target heal

-nerf shaman healing outside of resto tree by 30% like you did with priests

and thats it. it wouldnt even hurt PVE shamans.


-> you have no idea how hard shamans delete alliance in pvp right now. alliance is so scared they dont attack at all anymore. its impossible to save someone from a shaman attack since they are dead in less than 3 seconds, usually you dont get enough time to cast a single heal meanwhile in that time a shaman clubs them down from 100 to 0. this gets more aids the more shamans are around. when i see the horde side is again 50% shaman it just makes me give up honestly, no one can win against this. shamans join bgs in full consumes now because theyre so unkillable, you die long before you can do anything against them. shamans go in 1 vs 3 and they win

feel free to explain to me why chain lightning does over 4000+ damage over 60 yards around LOS with a little 2 second cast. (single target its 2800)

Shamans already had their base healing nerfed in CC2 with a 3 second chain heal nerf, and even before that both Lesser Heal Wave and Chain Heal are both crazy mana inefficient if you dont stack heal power, Shaman's biggest balancing point. The only difference now is that deep resto is actually mana efficient because they dont even get a heal boost in talents anymore.

This rework proposal nerfs the burst, both in crit dmg and in cast time of Chain Lightning, as I've already stated many times, and can be read in the original posts.

Not to mention it also removes Chain Heal for non-resto entirely, which, AGAIN can be read in the original posts.

Shaman doesn't need a Rain of Fire spell, they already have it in totems.

Shaman already has 2 single target heals, which I'm sure you've mutilated a TV control over in BG's seeing a Shaman use a 3m cd to heal 70% of their health instantly.

Please. Please. Read. I beg you. I know it's hard as an Alliance, but... please.

[boxcar221]

Man, I remember the original idea of shaman in Warcraft 3 being Thrall balling around the map with a coupla grunts killing everything, doesn't that check?
Same for paladins, and their story arc/WoW iteration is far more epic

[boxcar221]

I understand that rogues and feral druids in cat form shouldn't be approaching shamans at all.
For those who can't read well, I'll repeat myself
I played a shaman from version 1.8.2 until Draenor. Until they made it a primitive class for kids.
When I was a kid, it was funny and fun for me to see big numbers and kill all the casters with 2 hits. Now I understand that this is stupid and doesn't correspond to a normal game. Maybe in chinese mobile MMOs, this would be quite normal.

Rogues are the most skill-based class in the game, with the CC toolkit they have, it's their damn problem that they aren't geared enough to kill someone for CS+KS duration.
And feral druids? Don't even make me started, man.

Comparing us to warriors is a stretch because we do different things in a fight, aside from bonking. And if you dont heal, you bonk, there is no third option in a PVP fight. Did I mention we dont have any hard crowd control? Charging into the fray as an enha leads to instant death since every damn alliance whiner considers you number 1 target just because you're able to oneshot a greeny dude. We also have mobility slightly higher than that of a warlock, spirit wolf form doesn't prevent us from being slowed below 100% like it became in later expacks, let alone shifting out of roots like our fellow doodoos. It's not instant, hence barely usable mid-fight. 55% percent speed requires wearing mediocre blue boots, and with all the slows around, it's irrelevant anyway. You'd have to address all this at some extent if you still want to make enhas enjoyable while removing WF oneshot procs.

Talk about braindead gameplay, utilities in pvp? Good luck managing your 20 yd. range totems in a BG situation, I cant even use grounding to help anyone but myself. As if it's not tedious enough to tell if this particular dude in my party or not in the heat of a fight, I can't catch this Pyro to save his life because it just doesn't work like this.

And what class doesn't have braindead gameplay stereotype when you think abt it on a GY?

This damn hunter shot me again from 36+ yd. range, and his pet did half of the damage. Aint this fun?

That r14 warrior just put our whole group to death with 2 buttons via sweeps, and that's his reward for all the warrior struggles.

That feral druid is unkillable and unstoppable by a whole bunch of dudes, and WF procs dont seem to do much.

Mages straight have kill buttons for every spec, damn DISCO PRIESTS HAVE A KILL BUTTON WHICH IS ALSO A CC.

Yea, to me there is really not much of a choice:

1. Nerfing WF and overall bonkage to the ground turning us to battle cucks and call that iMpRoViNg uTiLiTiEs aNd cLaSs iDeNtiTy, which is not an option. No class in a computer rpg should be a "gamemaster" holding a candle while others have their fun killing eachother. Aint that what you suggest?

2. Getting rid of WF and turning enhancers into what? More dots, like the dude above said? Aren't ferals supposed to be melee dot class? Just another melee?
Yall just want to rob us from that one thing that lets us breathe the air of coolness and ownage.
These two points are all in all too much work to implement anyway, and tons of brainstorming should be done to get it work, and we all know our darling devs wouldn't do such a massive overhaul, like what? making totems our entire thing?

Then there is option number 3:
Deal. The fck. With it. Learn to play, learn about shaman's weaknesses, put yourself in our shoes, maybe you'll stop seeing double visions on BGs.

Also, I kinda understand that ele's want to press more buttons and all, you can talk about it all day, I never really played an ele, and well, maybe they could use some unique utilities and iDeNtiTy, but leave us enhas alone, please.


P.S. i barely touched any MMO besides WoW, arent asian MMO PVP more like wow's healers duel?

[boxcar221]

Okay, here's this one suggestion abt WF:
Remove the imbue, make WF totem give shaman 2 extra attacks, 1 for party members, no extra AP. Converge it w/ the agility totem. Let shamans benefit from it while using RB/FT/FB imbue.
30 yard range, uses GCD time, Enhancement tree exclusive. Same mana cost.

EDIT: Today I learned that FB imbue actually does stack with WF totem

[Romathi]

I was thinking on this for a bit, but have you considered swapping elemental weapons with flurry to incentivize its use on ele? Like having a frostbrand buff being exclusive to enhance doesnt really make sense when there isn't duel wielding because no enh sham uses that spell when wf exists, and less commonly flametongue

I actually love using frostbrand, for trash at least, soon as you hit a boss and frost shock effect doesn't apply it's not fun anymore or when mobs die quick so you basically get no use out of the buff. Would really help if they made the buff from elemental weapons with frost shock would be a buff on the user instead of debuff on the mob. All the crits makes mana usage so much more satisfying and really feels a lot better than WF.

[Akarui]

Weaken windfury so that it does not give a chance to kill the ragdoll from the first second - this is the first thing to do. Increase the survivability of the shaman is the second.
At the BG I observed the following picture of brainless gameplay
the shaman runs on a mount -> jumps into the crowd solo -> presses stormstrike -> shock -> kills the ragdoll -> and then dies himself because he brainlessly flew into the crowd and everyone hit him at least once.
Respawned and repeated. two buttons. I am categorically against such brainless gameplay being effective.

Once again I want to remind you. The spec is called "Enhancement", NOT "Windfury" or "Autoattack". Totems and other weapon buffs should also be relevant

At the moment in twow only the resto tree seems interesting and thought out to me. I am still thinking about the proposal how to fix the shamans in an interesting way

[boxcar221]

At the BG I observed the following picture of brainless gameplay
the shaman runs on a mount -> jumps into the crowd solo -> presses stormstrike -> shock -> kills the ragdoll -> and then dies himself because he brainlessly flew into the crowd and everyone hit him at least once.
Respawned and repeated. two buttons. I am categorically against such brainless gameplay being effective.

Dude, how on earth is this playstyle effective? BG is not about suiciding, hell, sadly it's not even about killing blows.
Notice how I used the word PLAYSTYLE instead of GAMEPLAY. Blame the player, not the class. Enhancer with a head on his shoulders wouldn't do such thing, and changing balance won't change players. Who doesnt charge in and die once in a while anyway?

We don't need extra survivability, too, it would be an overkill, we are already tough enough if we play smart and with a good team.

Devs did a good job making Horde leader class desirable in groups and hated by Alliance.
Reworking WF means smoothing out damage spikes because in PVE enhas aren't top DPS at all. So generally damage shouldn't be nerfed. It's the sudden death that people complain about, and it's what's enhas known for in vanilla.

[Cecilc]

Change wf to 3% spell haste

Put weaker wf effect on agi totem

[Voodoochile]

June 28, 2025 Update

Reworked the Enhance tree after great consideration of the state of Shaman pvp, leveling, and tanking. The goals of these changes, which can be found in the edited original posts, have been to stimmy the ability for Elemental to specc into the Enhancement tree to get alot of free, passive damage mitigation. The mitigation originally found on Ancestral Guidance and Spirit Shields has been moved further into the tree and have had their power reallocated into the Shaman's totems as opposed to being a passive, persistent stat increase.

Additionally Flurry and Ele Weps have been swapped on the tree to allow for more build options, and Forked Tongue has had a mini-rework.

[Cecilc]

Did I mention we dont have any hard crowd control?

Proof people don't even play the game

viewtopic.php?p=136883#p136883

About half way on this topic

[Bjorn88]

"Elemental Mastery (Replaces Electrify) - When your offensive spells miss, resist, or are interrupted, your next Shock spell has a 100% hit chance, has its range match your Lightning Bolt, cost no mana, and incurs no GCD. 45s CD (1 Rank)."

Absolutely not. The only thing Ele needs for the 30 pt talent is the reinstallment of Elemental Fury. With all this thinking you must have missed that the burst is the core identity of the class. Anything else than crit dmg boost of X% here will destroy the class.

[Voodoochile]

"Elemental Mastery (Replaces Electrify) - When your offensive spells miss, resist, or are interrupted, your next Shock spell has a 100% hit chance, has its range match your Lightning Bolt, cost no mana, and incurs no GCD. 45s CD (1 Rank)."

Absolutely not. The only thing Ele needs for the 30 pt talent is the reinstallment of Elemental Fury. With all this thinking you must have missed that the burst is the core identity of the class. Anything else than crit dmg boost of X% here will destroy the class.

If you read the rest of the talents you'd see that it was still there in the tree.

Also, big crits is the current identity, but it is:
1) Not unique
2) Not even the best burst caster anymore

Ele needs an identity unique to itself, so I provided it with a niche for 2-3 target burst and aoe debuffing.

[Bjorn88]

"Elemental Mastery (Replaces Electrify) - When your offensive spells miss, resist, or are interrupted, your next Shock spell has a 100% hit chance, has its range match your Lightning Bolt, cost no mana, and incurs no GCD. 45s CD (1 Rank)."

Absolutely not. The only thing Ele needs for the 30 pt talent is the reinstallment of Elemental Fury. With all this thinking you must have missed that the burst is the core identity of the class. Anything else than crit dmg boost of X% here will destroy the class.

If you read the rest of the talents you'd see that it was still there in the tree.

Also, big crits is the current identity, but it is:
1) Not unique
2) Not even the best burst caster anymore

Ele needs an identity unique to itself, so I provided it with a niche for 2-3 target burst and aoe debuffing.

I was looking at it but didn't find Elemental Fury anywhere. Or lol did you refer to the 15 or whatever extra % from the final talent? The sole most important thing for the Ele tree is the reinstallment of Elemental Fury. Put it at 75% or whatever. This stacking dmg increase mechanic Electrify has is pure dogshit in pvp. Completely unreliable.

1) so what, it's still the identity
2) true, and that's the fault of the devs for introducing abominations like smite priest and caster druids.

[Akarui]

June 28, 2025 Update

Reworked the Enhance tree after great consideration of the state of Shaman pvp, leveling, and tanking. The goals of these changes, which can be found in the edited original posts, have been to stimmy the ability for Elemental to specc into the Enhancement tree to get alot of free, passive damage mitigation. The mitigation originally found on Ancestral Guidance and Spirit Shields has been moved further into the tree and have had their power reallocated into the Shaman's totems as opposed to being a passive, persistent stat increase.

Additionally Flurry and Ele Weps have been swapped on the tree to allow for more build options, and Forked Tongue has had a mini-rework.

viewtopic.php?t=20061

About ele. Not any PWN button and talent. just remove that. On my opinion ele should be fast caster , with gradual acceleration in spell rotation. And not just cast a big crit and be glad, like winning the lottery

[Cecilc]

"Elemental Mastery (Replaces Electrify) - When your offensive spells miss, resist, or are interrupted, your next Shock spell has a 100% hit chance, has its range match your Lightning Bolt, cost no mana, and incurs no GCD. 45s CD (1 Rank)."

Absolutely not. The only thing Ele needs for the 30 pt talent is the reinstallment of Elemental Fury. With all this thinking you must have missed that the burst is the core identity of the class. Anything else than crit dmg boost of X% here will destroy the class.

If you read the rest of the talents you'd see that it was still there in the tree.

Also, big crits is the current identity, but it is:
1) Not unique
2) Not even the best burst caster anymore

Ele needs an identity unique to itself, so I provided it with a niche for 2-3 target burst and aoe debuffing.

I was looking at it but didn't find Elemental Fury anywhere. Or lol did you refer to the 15 or whatever extra % from the final talent? The sole most important thing for the Ele tree is the reinstallment of Elemental Fury. Put it at 75% or whatever. This stacking dmg increase mechanic Electrify has is pure dogshit in pvp. Completely unreliable.

1) so what, it's still the identity
2) true, and that's the fault of the devs for introducing abominations like smite priest and caster druids.

@devs

Why does arcane mage get Arcane Potency and ours removed?

Why does arcane mage get 40% thread reduce and we only get 15%, not even on the elemental tree?

Why does arcane mage get Resonance Cascade and Shamans have to wear 8/8 T2 for it

Warlock has Ruin at 100%

Shadow priest has threat reduction at 25% on the same tree for 3 points, 20% for 5 points in disc

Owls, 100% crit damage, 20% threat reduction in resto tree

This isn’t even homogenization, as ALL the other casters have it already, this is just straight up unfair and discrimination

[Voodoochile]

Put it at 75% or whatever. This stacking dmg increase mechanic Electrify has is pure dogshit in pvp.

I beg you people. Just read the proposal. You didnt even read through the one tree.

[boxcar221]

No, just no.

Nerfing ele tankiness yet buffing their melee capabilities when there are already ele shamans who kill in ranged AND melee. Having both melee abilities AND talent-improved Frostbrand render playing pure Enhancement a second-hand experience and making Elemental way too versatile and overpowered.

Why would I walk around waving my big manly axe if there is clearly a more effective way to play, when elemental shamans would clearly take the best off of Enha tree and continue to be 1h+shield armored turrets who ALSO manages in melee?

Stormstrike baseline -- nonsense, this and +10% melee damage talent should have swapped places, done.

Totems on GCD -- reverting back to vanilla nonsense, having grounding totem GCD is enough. I know some use superwow or something to get their tots put in a single button push, but still that doesn't justify having globals on them. With 20 yard range, just no. Don't listen to whiners who are horrified seeing shaman put tremor/wf and stormstriking at the same instant. And it's not of your (OP) interest to propose such dumb nerfs just to calm down the noobs who support nerf because they hate shamans being decent in a vanilla wow situation.

YES to tucking WF totem down to 31 enhancement, Yes to merging it with agility totem, and also I support removal of the passive threat reduction talents, turning it into something that player would have to manage on his own (besides pushing esc button)

I admire your commitment to find a way to smooth things out, but some of what you've wrote looks terrible to me. And im not cc2 hater either

[Voodoochile]

No, just no.

Nerfing ele tankiness yet buffing their melee capabilities when there are already ele shamans who kill in ranged AND melee. Having both melee abilities AND talent-improved Frostbrand render playing pure Enhancement a second-hand experience and making Elemental way too versatile and overpowered.

Why would I walk around waving my big manly axe if there is clearly a more effective way to play, when elemental shamans would clearly take the best off of Enha tree and continue to be 1h+shield armored turrets who ALSO manages in melee?

Stormstrike baseline -- nonsense, this and +10% melee damage talent should have swapped places, done.

Totems on GCD -- reverting back to vanilla nonsense, having grounding totem GCD is enough. I know some use superwow or something to get their tots put in a single button push, but still that doesn't justify having globals on them. With 20 yard range, just no. Don't listen to whiners who are horrified seeing shaman put tremor/wf and stormstriking at the same instant. And it's not of your (OP) interest to propose such dumb nerfs just to calm down the noobs who support nerf because they hate shamans being decent in a vanilla wow situation.

I admire your commitment to find a way to smooth things out, but some of what you've wrote looks terrible to me. And im not cc2 hater either

I don't really understand your argument. As it stands right now, why would you be enh over ele in pvp to begin with? Ele is better in almost every because they can burst just as hard from range, has ghost wolf, and are as tanky as an enh shaman as well as still pick up Lightning Strike and often STILL choose 30/21/0 SS over Elemental Mastery.

So whats the issue here?

Enh got a minor buff here with flurry, elemental weapons does not need a 3 point commitment anymore for BL, and I gave them a root & slow cleanse on their keystone, not even including that WF and Agi are now on the same totem essentially deleting the opportunity cost in group pvp and more than doubling that totem's value.

This in addition to the reduction of sp scaling on lightning bolt and increasing CL cast time with the reduction talent, and reducing LB's base cast speed to 2.5s are all forms of the power balance being swayed away from Ele to the other trees.

Totems still don't have a cd and are an aoe buff that cannot be dispelled and MUST be destroyed (or force the targets out somehow) which costs a gcd. Shaman can spend 1 gcd to remove 2 buffs, which I don't think is a bad thing, but there is an uneven gcd economy when you can drop 4 totems instantly, and can refresh them instantly. Having totems on gcd were perfectly fine in vanilla. It didn't stop Shaman from wrecking house.

However you did bring up a point I had completely forgotten about when I was making this proposal. I do want to make the buff totems a default 24 or 25 yard range because 20 yards does feel just awful.

[Bjorn88]

Put it at 75% or whatever. This stacking dmg increase mechanic Electrify has is pure dogshit in pvp.

I beg you people. Just read the proposal. You didnt even read through the one tree.

Haha, my apologies xD I am so frustrated by Electrify, anything talent-related I see I go into fury mode.

[Akarui]

basic spell crit dmg - 150%. It means 100% + crit bonus +50%. Increasing crit bonuse by 100% - means 100% + 50% + (50*1)% = 200%
increasing by 75% - means 100%+50% + (50*0.75)% = 187.5%
how modest XD

[Voodoochile]

basic spell crit dmg - 150%. It means 100% + crit bonus +50%. Increasing crit bonuse by 100% - means 100% + 50% + (50*1)% = 200%
increasing by 75% - means 100%+50% + (50*0.75)% = 187.5%
how modest XD

LB is also nerfed from 85.7% spell power scaling to 71.4% due to cast time change, meaning that per cast at 500sp is losing 70dmg per cast. Meaning at 500 sp with the crit nerf as well that just off of the bonus sp dmg, LB crit is losing 188dmg. This in addition to Chain Lightning being increased from 1.5s cast to 2s with Lightning Mastery both contribute to reducing burst.

[Bjorn88]

. This in addition to Chain Lightning being increased from 1.5s cast to 2s with Lightning Mastery both contribute to reducing burst.

Yea absolutely not. Why this intent on reducing the burst? because twow pvp newbies complain so much?

[boxcar221]

I actually like the suggestion above about turning elemental shamans into fast casters who gradually gain their damage. This, combined with ENHANCED melee capabilities would result in an interesting and dynamic pvp gameplay, and also bit more engaged pve button mashing.

Let's say, 1.7 sec max level LB, 1.5 CL baseline casts, with little to no talent improvements, more focusing on improving damage scaling and gaining momentum while actively casting. Allowing enhancement shamans to also make a cast or two when rooted.

The rest is tweaking numbers.

My suggestions may be not so detailed as those of OP's, maybe even radical, but I'm all into turning the two damage shaman trees synergistic, and as viable, versatile and interesting as ever. Without making us complete OP ofc.

[boxcar221]

No, just no.

Nerfing ele tankiness yet buffing their melee capabilities when there are already ele shamans who kill in ranged AND melee. Having both melee abilities AND talent-improved Frostbrand render playing pure Enhancement a second-hand experience and making Elemental way too versatile and overpowered.

Why would I walk around waving my big manly axe if there is clearly a more effective way to play, when elemental shamans would clearly take the best off of Enha tree and continue to be 1h+shield armored turrets who ALSO manages in melee?

Stormstrike baseline -- nonsense, this and +10% melee damage talent should have swapped places, done.

Totems on GCD -- reverting back to vanilla nonsense, having grounding totem GCD is enough. I know some use superwow or something to get their tots put in a single button push, but still that doesn't justify having globals on them. With 20 yard range, just no. Don't listen to whiners who are horrified seeing shaman put tremor/wf and stormstriking at the same instant. And it's not of your (OP) interest to propose such dumb nerfs just to calm down the noobs who support nerf because they hate shamans being decent in a vanilla wow situation.

I admire your commitment to find a way to smooth things out, but some of what you've wrote looks terrible to me. And im not cc2 hater either

I don't really understand your argument. As it stands right now, why would you be enh over ele in pvp to begin with? Ele is better in almost every because they can burst just as hard from range, has ghost wolf, and are as tanky as an enh shaman as well as still pick up Lightning Strike and often STILL choose 30/21/0 SS over Elemental Mastery.

So whats the issue here?

Enh got a minor buff here with flurry, elemental weapons does not need a 3 point commitment anymore for BL, and I gave them a root & slow cleanse on their keystone, not even including that WF and Agi are now on the same totem essentially deleting the opportunity cost in group pvp and more than doubling that totem's value.

This in addition to the reduction of sp scaling on lightning bolt and increasing CL cast time with the reduction talent, and reducing LB's base cast speed to 2.5s are all forms of the power balance being swayed away from Ele to the other trees.

Totems still don't have a cd and are an aoe buff that cannot be dispelled and MUST be destroyed (or force the targets out somehow) which costs a gcd. Shaman can spend 1 gcd to remove 2 buffs, which I don't think is a bad thing, but there is an uneven gcd economy when you can drop 4 totems instantly, and can refresh them instantly. Having totems on gcd were perfectly fine in vanilla. It didn't stop Shaman from wrecking house.

However you did bring up a point I had completely forgotten about when I was making this proposal. I do want to make the buff totems a default 24 or 25 yard range because 20 yards does feel just awful.

I maybe was too dismissive with my post, what I didn't like is that playstyle-wise, elemental shamans benefit from having SS and LS and in pvp are able to somewhat facetank melees while dealing great amount of damage, while pure enhancement shaman just gets a couple of talents here and there, basically being disabled version of elemental shaman with a 2hander (nothing enhancing about it, isn't it), not using anything unique besides maybe Bloodlust, while still getting whined about. Why give elemental shamans that? I have LB and CL on my action bar, even though I don't use them. I heard elemental specced searing totem hits 200, while I barely make use of any fire totem in pvp.

Mind that enhas still considered OP for big bonk. Giving us root cleanse would make enhancement way too OP in the eyes of other classes. This is exactly what melee shaman want to be unstoppable deathkinght-style killing machine. On the other hand, making it, like, 3 min+ CD wouldn't make difference in the big picture. And we still would have to trade something big in exchange for that, like purge, or straight damage numbers although we aren't top dps in pve.


Honestly, I'm a bit confused right now.
I think I should reconsider what I actually want with my favourite class. One thing I know, I don't want to be some cucked on-GCD-totem dropping miserable "shut up, you're hybrid" player.

[Cecilc]

I actually like the suggestion above about turning elemental shamans into fast casters who gradually gain their damage. This, combined with ENHANCED melee capabilities would result in an interesting and dynamic pvp gameplay, and also bit more engaged pve button mashing.

Let's say, 1.7 sec max level LB, 1.5 CL baseline casts, with little to no talent improvements, more focusing on improving damage scaling and gaining momentum while actively casting. Allowing enhancement shamans to also make a cast or two when rooted.

The rest is tweaking numbers.

My suggestions may be not so detailed as those of OP's, maybe even radical, but I'm all into turning the two damage shaman trees synergistic, and as viable, versatile and interesting as ever. Without making us complete OP ofc.

Numbers not gonna work
Baseline short cast time = low spell coeff = high base damage to counter = enh doing way too much spell damage
How are you going to balance around stacking buffs again? Electrify x2? Its the most hated thing on the forums since it got introduced. How are you going to get stacks in PVP?