NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

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Patholon
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NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Patholon » Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:38 am

The Case for Dual-Wielding Shamans in Turtle WoW

In the dynamic world of Turtle WoW, where custom content breathes new life into the classic World of Warcraft experience, the concept of dual-wielding shamans emerges as both an exciting and mechanically sound idea. This proposal not only adds a fresh layer of gameplay but also aligns with the lore and design philosophy of the shaman class.

1. Lore-Friendly Evolution
Shamans are spiritual warriors who channel elemental forces, embodying the raw power of nature. In Warcraft lore, notable shamans like Thrall wielded formidable weapons, showcasing their martial prowess alongside their spiritual might. Allowing dual-wielding taps into this narrative, emphasizing the shaman's versatility—a master of both the elemental and physical realms. This evolution honors the lore while expanding the class's identity.

2. Enhanced Gameplay Diversity
Mechanically, dual-wielding offers shamans a unique hybrid playstyle. It bridges the gap between melee and spellcasting, enabling thrilling synergies with abilities like Stormstrike and Flurry. This change can rejuvenate the Enhancement specialization, making it more competitive in both PvE and PvP environments. Players can experiment with weapon combinations, optimizing for speed, elemental damage, or critical strikes, adding depth to build customization.

3. Balancing and Customization Opportunities
Concerns about balance can be addressed through thoughtful design. Adjustments to talent trees, weapon speed normalization, and mana cost tweaks ensure that dual-wielding doesn’t overshadow other playstyles. Moreover, this feature can be gated behind specific quests or achievements, making it a rewarding challenge for dedicated players while maintaining class integrity.

4. Community Engagement and Fresh Content
Turtle WoW thrives on its community-driven approach. Introducing dual-wielding shamans would spark new discussions, theorycrafting, and content creation. It encourages veteran players to revisit the class and invites newcomers to explore shaman gameplay in a novel way.

In conclusion, dual-wielding shamans are more than a flashy addition; they represent a thoughtful enhancement that respects Warcraft lore, enriches gameplay diversity, and fosters community engagement. It's a bold step that aligns with Turtle WoW's mission to innovate within the spirit of the original game.

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Elisleris
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Elisleris » Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:34 am

With all these proposals, plz answer to question: who will be need on two handed weapons in raids except retri paladins and feral druids? Dual wielding shamans will need the same weapons as warriors, rogues (also hunters for some weapons).
There is no ballance
Last edited by Elisleris on Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Bigsmerf » Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:51 am

This idea isn't new. TBC did it. Countless other people who clearly just want TBC-onward enhancement have suggested it. Stop. We have enough dual wield and use of one-handers. SoD did it. Other custom servers did it. You're not a special snowflake.

1. This is pretty much just a stretched out way of saying "Trust me guys, shamans just deciding to use two small weapons instead of one big one would be so interesting and cool!"

Boy, you're just holding an extra smacking stick. I don't see how this enriches or enhances (pun intended) lore.

2. You can do all this with 2h, can't you? I suppose two weapons would open up the possibility of 2 weapon procs or something like that, but it wouldn't change much at all in the grand scheme of things. I don't see people deviating much from the norm.

3. While I like the idea of locking stuff behind a grind, I think something like this would be too much. For all we know dual wielding could end up being the meta for enhancement, and- "Oops, now you gotta do this tedious ass class quest along with all your totem ones just to like- play the class!"

4. The over-use of flowery words and nearly AI generated levels of eloquency really confuses me here. Not much changes about enh sham when you slap an extra weapon on it when all is said and done. Every meta weapon has been discovered at this point, and people know what stats which class needs, so chances are dual wielding sham will have its bis discovered before it even exists.

The level of glazing and random nonsense in this post really boggles the mind. How would a human person type all this out in full confidence?
Last edited by Bigsmerf on Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bigsmerf
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Bigsmerf » Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:52 am

Elisleris wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:34 am With all these proposals, plz answer to question: who will be need to two handed weapons in raids except retri paladins and feral druids? Dual wielding shmans will need the same weapons as warriors, rogues (also hunters for some weapons)
Arms warriors and survival hunters exist too.
Elmhoof - 60 Boomkin
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Atreidon
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Atreidon » Wed Feb 05, 2025 6:55 am

New idea?
TBC came out in 2007. That makes the idea of dualwielding shaman at least 18 years old.

But lets see if the idea has any actual merrit.
Lorewise if we look at the warcraft universe, Tauren Warchief, Orc Farseer, Troll Shadowhunter, Orc Shaman and Troll Whichdoctor who were arguably the main inspirations for shaman. None of which dualwield. Being proficient with one weapon doest equate to being proficient with two, otherwise you could give Paladin dualwielding with the same reasoning.

In fact, being proficient spellcasters, ir makes sense to have one Hand free for fiddling with reagent pouches or other spell related actions.
Which reduces this part of your post to "it'd be cool".
While thats a valid way to design something in a vacuum. These kinds of changes to a class with thousands of dedocated players playing it already might seriously piss some of them off. (For similar example, check survival hunter and sub rogue. These talent trees while probably fun in their own right have forsaken the players that already enjoyed them for new ideas.

In practice there will be exactly two viable options if we add just dualwielding. Full elemental with midnight haze in the offhand for more spelldamage, reducing the "playstyle" to a statstick or also having to touch stormstrike, lightningstrike, the way imbues work in classic and probably most crucially, give shamans a massive hit talent, as they are already in the position wanting too many different stats for their own good. Adding 19% hit as a new requirement is not helpful.
Otherwise it will just not be playable in raids.

In conclusion, this is a "it'd be cool if" change that does create more problem than it solves, especially when it is requested in a post that didnt actually consider the implications of its implementation. Considering there is a massive list of changes tbc had to do to make dualwield even a thing, id rather keep my shaman as it is now (or preferably without the mistake that is lightning strike)

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Akos1896 » Wed Feb 05, 2025 10:47 am

I'm against it. DW enh shaman is the retail way and TWOW seemingly wants to be unique with shamans. Let them cook.

amanagor
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by amanagor » Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:05 am

No thanks, if you want dualwield, go sod.

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Wrathweaver » Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:26 pm

Adding dual wield to shaman will most likely just draw in even more players.
These people would play retail if it was free and they will just replace the old playerbase.


When blizzard did the same back in the day, their population also grew.
The trick is to design the classes around the lowest common denominator with shorter attention span(less resource managment, more fast paced clicking)
"Our philosophy has always been focusing on enhancing and polishing the existing identity of classes and specializations, rather than reworking or replacing them entirely"

Atreidon
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Atreidon » Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:34 pm

Right, and how is wow doing after applying this formula over and over?

The more you mess with whats nostalgia, the more you piss of the nostalgia crowd that is the lions share of yout current playerbase

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Wrathweaver » Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:28 pm

Atreidon wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:34 pm Right, and how is wow doing after applying this formula over and over?

The more you mess with whats nostalgia, the more you piss of the nostalgia crowd that is the lions share of yout current playerbase
Yes and they will be replaced by younger people with no connection to vanilla or class playstyles/identity and they would like an even more modern design than cc2.
Im just explaining where the server is at the moment.
Adding dual wield will draw in more people and increase the pop, replacing people like me for example.

Once it has startet we will see even more class and spec replacements going further away from the original classes in the future.
"Our philosophy has always been focusing on enhancing and polishing the existing identity of classes and specializations, rather than reworking or replacing them entirely"

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by FrankFankledank » Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:09 am

Enhance is already in a nightmare position where it's trying to do a Feral thing and have both tanking and DPS talents in the same slot. Making it so it now has to accommodate tanking, 2H DPS AND dual wield DPS talents is just unviable.
Concerns about balance can be addressed through thoughtful design.
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Patholon
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Patholon » Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:05 am

Thanks for the opinions guys. Ultimately it's the right move and they're planning on implementing it. It's so much fun to use the flurry talent with two one-handed weapons, seeing your character swivel around.

It works for classic and they know it will work for here.

Atreidon
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Atreidon » Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:08 am

Patholon wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:05 am Thanks for the opinions guys. Ultimately it's the right move and they're planning on implementing it. It's so much fun to use the flurry talent with two one-handed weapons, seeing your character swivel around.

It works for classic and they know it will work for here.
Read the room jerry...

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Patholon
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Patholon » Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:10 am

Atreidon wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:08 am
Patholon wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:05 am Thanks for the opinions guys. Ultimately it's the right move and they're planning on implementing it. It's so much fun to use the flurry talent with two one-handed weapons, seeing your character swivel around.

It works for classic and they know it will work for here.
Read the room jerry...
It's not the people that agree with it that are posting. They already know it's the right choice
But people are already thanking me.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Bigsmerf » Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:31 am

Patholon wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:05 am they're planning on implementing it.
Source?
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Harkus
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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Harkus » Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:12 pm

Bigsmerf wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 8:31 am
Patholon wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 7:05 am they're planning on implementing it.
Source?
His behind, of course happy_turtle_head
Enh DW is lore unfriendly and will never happen because then enh would be even more of a nightmare to balance. Just go to any other server for it instead of trying to make Turtle more like retail... 2H enhance is cool and unique to vanilla satisfied_turtle_head

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Thule » Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:34 pm

Patholon wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:38 am
1. Lore-Friendly Evolution
Shamans are spiritual warriors who channel elemental forces, embodying the raw power of nature. In Warcraft lore, notable shamans like Thrall wielded formidable weapons, showcasing their martial prowess alongside their spiritual might. Allowing dual-wielding taps into this narrative, emphasizing the shaman's versatility—a master of both the elemental and physical realms. This evolution honors the lore while expanding the class's identity.
Ummm Iam not aware of any notable shaman from the Lore that wields 2 onehands.
Maybe you're referring to Thrall and his training in captivity.
But he was trained as a gladiator-warrior long before he conquered the elemental forces. Combining dual wielding with shamans is not lore-friendly.


2hands are just good for enha. (And more badass)

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by droddhoof » Mon Feb 10, 2025 1:38 pm

I understand you, I started WoW in BC a long time ago :).

I start an enhanced shaman, for remember the old time. At lvl30 i see i'll can't go for dual...

I'll reroll, no way i can play a 2H enhanced, for me it's a PvP specialisation for OS on a WF proc.

It's just my opinion, i understand that vanilla player don't see enhanced like that.

have fun.

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Re: NEW IDEA **dual wielding shamans**

Post by Kerenis » Mon Feb 10, 2025 6:50 pm

I hated when TBC popped and enhance was suddenly balanced around dual wield

Big nope

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