Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

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Ulukay
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Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Ulukay » Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:28 am

Almost all fabric equipment has bonuses to spirit, intelligence, possibly endurance and some kind of magic enhancement. With the exception of a couple of unique items and green items with random stats. I think this is a little unfair. It would be nice to have the parameters of agility, strength and some kind of bonus other than amplification of magic (weapon hit chance, attack power, crit hits...) on unique cloth equipment.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Bigsmerf » Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:10 am

So in other words you want melee stats on caster gear


Lmao
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Ulukay
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Ulukay » Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:48 pm

Bigsmerf wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:10 am So in other words you want melee stats on caster gear


Lmao
In other words, or rather in one word, "diversity" rather than bland sameness.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Bigsmerf » Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:40 pm

Ulukay wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:48 pm
Bigsmerf wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:10 am So in other words you want melee stats on caster gear


Lmao
In other words, or rather in one word, "diversity" rather than bland sameness.
What makes it diverse besides having a new number attached to gear for the sake of it? You're just giving classes useless stats they don't need. When have you ever seen a mage pull out his staff and run into melee outside of the first ten levels? We have wands when we run out of mana. You're not opening the door to some new undiscovered or previously impossible build, 'cause like- no caster class besides shaman and *maybe* balance druid could make use of melee stats even in the most niche situations. You know why? Because they're hybrids. These classes are quite literally built to be able to go from magic to melee. Mage is not. Priest is not. Warlock is not. A change like this would be too much time and effort for ultimately nothing. PLEASE never cook again, the water is burnt after that.
Elmhoof - 60 Boomkin
Tacheka - 41 Melee hunter (Planned secondary main)
Anbone - 36 Shadow Priest (Idk what I'm doing with him)

The laser chicken called to me. And so I answered.

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Turbosaxophonic
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Turbosaxophonic » Mon Jan 27, 2025 4:22 am

Funny enough every stat being relevant to each class was a concept that wasn’t scrapped until pretty late in development. Unfortunately that wasn’t communicated to the Itemization Lead, which led to a lot of the weird stats that showed up on some pieces of gear. While it’s a fun idea to think about that’s evocative to the game’s earlier stages of development, that’s the kind of thing that should be tried with the launch of a new server. Unless you’re talking about something like one-off pieces of gear that would pose a trade-off for melee-users in armor value for raw stats, it would just be too massive of an undertaking for an existing server.

Xudo
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Xudo » Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:34 am

Ulukay wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:48 pm
Bigsmerf wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:10 am So in other words you want melee stats on caster gear


Lmao
In other words, or rather in one word, "diversity" rather than bland sameness.
Do you have anything more specific than "diversity"?
I don't think that more sources of nexus crystals is good idea.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

Ulukay
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Ulukay » Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:36 am

Xudo wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:34 am
Ulukay wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:48 pm
Bigsmerf wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:10 am So in other words you want melee stats on caster gear


Lmao
In other words, or rather in one word, "diversity" rather than bland sameness.
Do you have anything more specific than "diversity"?
I don't think that more sources of nexus crystals is good idea.
viewtopic.php?p=117942#p117942

Akos1896
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Akos1896 » Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:14 pm

Will explain why this would be a problem.
Currently no cloth-build is melee. You can in theory play melee-lock or melee priest but there are like 5 people around playing with those memes.
Of course melee classes have the option to opt for cloth even if they can wear leather, mail and/or plate but from one hand, the higher level the gear type the better (added damage mitigation) and from the other hand those item types have an established niche for providing melee items.

Let's say that in the name of diversity you spam dungeons with cloth melee items. What would you accomplish?
* You'd make the 5 memer guys who play melee priest/warlock happy.
* You'd make some melee kinda confused. They take the +str cloth shoulder but it's not that optimal.
* You'd mostly screw with everyone though by diluting the loot table. Let's say a boss had 5 items and 3 were interesting for a frequently used build so boss was being farmed. Now the boss has 6 items out of which people want 3. Giving these to dungeons would just dilute the loot table and would make everyone bitter when the boss dies and instead of a useful item that cloth melee hat drops again.

Ulukay
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Ulukay » Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:25 am

For some reason, everyone is starting to talk about melee, but there are other possibilities besides that.
For example, dexterity will increase Wand damage for a mage, priest, and warlock, as well as give a bonus to defense, evasion, and crit chance. One parameter gives you a bunch of bonuses. Not to mention, it can be used by a scammer or a hunter.
The weapon hit chance parameter will also add an advantage for Wand and melee combat.
Strength may seem useless to some, but it can also be useful to someone.

Akos1896
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Akos1896 » Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:13 am

I'm fine with them as craftables but on loot tables, still no.
Those items you desribe have very niche benefits, very few people would actually want them so they would just dilute the loot table, making people unhappy every time they drop instead of the gear people farm that dungeon for.

Ulukay
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Ulukay » Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:53 am

Akos1896 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:13 am I'm fine with them as craftables but on loot tables, still no.
Those items you desribe have very niche benefits, very few people would actually want them so they would just dilute the loot table, making people unhappy every time they drop instead of the gear people farm that dungeon for.
There will always be dissatisfied and unhappy people anyway. smiling_turtle_head There's no way to make everyone happy at once, since there's no personalized loot.

Akos1896
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Akos1896 » Sun Feb 02, 2025 10:21 am

Just admit, that your idea is bad if you plan to add these items amongst the loot drops.
There is a difference between items 30% of the playerbase wants and items that 1% wants, even if you are a part of that 1%.
Those items dropping would make the 99% annoyed because the item almost noone really wants blocked more desirable items to drop for which many party members joined the dung.

Ulukay
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Ulukay » Sun Feb 02, 2025 10:40 am

Akos1896 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 10:21 am Just admit, that your idea is bad if you plan to add these items amongst the loot drops.
There is a difference between items 30% of the playerbase wants and items that 1% wants, even if you are a part of that 1%.
Those items dropping would make the 99% annoyed because the item almost noone really wants blocked more desirable items to drop for which many party members joined the dung.
I didn't say a word about loot from bosses or anything like that. I was just pointing out a flaw.

Akos1896
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Akos1896 » Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:50 am

That's okay but let me put it this way:
You pointing out a flaw (too few non-caster cloth items) would mean a solution which sometimes (if we talk about instance drops) means a very bad in-game experience for most players since the drop rate of the items people usually go for gets reduced with the added item.
As a craftable it's okay or if we ever have a dungeon designed for niches.
But making cloth instance drops more diverse would mean less useful loot for the big majority.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Bigsmerf » Sun Feb 02, 2025 12:31 pm

Ulukay wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:25 am dexterity will increase Wand damage for a mage, priest, and warlock, as well as give a bonus to defense, evasion, and crit chance.
Wands don't scale with stats, and spells don't get crit from agility. In other words? You only get armor and dodge from it. Those are the only *useful* things agility does for a caster. Why would you want either of those over something like int or spell damage though? Like literally why? Are you trying to mage tank?
Ulukay wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:25 am The weapon hit chance parameter will also add an advantage for Wand and melee combat.
No it doesn't. Wands aren't affected by hit chance either. You're putting yourself at a disadvantage even being in melee range as any caster, so having melee hit as a caster is downright stupid.
Ulukay wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 8:25 am Strength may seem useless to some, but it can also be useful to someone.
Melee classes. It's useful to melee classes. They do melee damage, and strength gives you melee attack power. Also block chance, I think.
Elmhoof - 60 Boomkin
Tacheka - 41 Melee hunter (Planned secondary main)
Anbone - 36 Shadow Priest (Idk what I'm doing with him)

The laser chicken called to me. And so I answered.

FrankFankledank
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by FrankFankledank » Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:33 am

I mean, Jewelcrafting, and to a lesser extent Engineering with the new epic goggles kind of already addressed this. They just have to add a few more bits and bobs, I agree with keeping it primarily craftables as 99/100 raids are going to groan if one of the bosses is dropping an AGI/STR robe instead of something they can use for more than replacing a preraid blue.

Fugus
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Re: Unjust inequality of fabric clothing.

Post by Fugus » Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:27 am

All I can think of with this is a Warrior running around decked out in Int and Spell Damage plate running around wanding everything to death because they would give them wands as part of this change.

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