Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

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Jammyzz
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Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Jammyzz » Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:57 pm

No , I'm not talking about Might of Menethil that literally every warrior on the server has.

Im talking about the hardest grind in the game. Rank 14.

Literally everyone I see as Rank14, doesnt even use their Rank14 Weapon.... Why you ask?

Because they are vastly outperformered by Naxx and even some AQ40 weapons... This will only get worse after Kara40.

We now have 100+ DPS 2Handers in Kara40, meanwhile the hardest to obtain weps are stuck in the past at 77.4dps...

Honestly I think this is a slap to the face to any Rank14 player.... Imagine grinding Kara40 and getting a worse wep than Naxx, even though its a harder raid.

Infact the whole PvP Sets need buffing as a whole (Blizzard themselves buffed the PvP gear when AQ40 released to keep up with the new raid tier) however they didnt buff them again in the naxx patch, But following their trend, the PvP Sets should have been buffed now a new raid tier is out to keep up.
Last edited by Jammyzz on Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grizb37
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Grizb37 » Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:04 pm

Totally agree, and I think its pretty pathetic how they havent atleast been bumped up to 85dps.

These weapons were released back in BWL, and were the most sought after and
prestigious weapons in the game.

Now they're just for transmog.... thats all theyre good for, as pretty much any R14 player has a AQ40 or Naxx weapon.

They buffed the WSG and AB rewards Barely in 1.17.2. - Still PvP'ers dont have enough choice, and their only Weapons for sole PvPing are just vastly outperformed from raid weapons.

I bought my R14 wep and just shoved it in the bank, never even used it, because I had better from AQ40.

Honestly that Epic feeling of finaly getting R14 I had in original vanilla in 2005, was not there, as I didnt have a strong epic weapon that people only could fantasize of having, and thats pretty fucking sad for the hardest grind in the game.

oh well

Jammyzz
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Jammyzz » Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:12 pm

Grizb37 wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:04 pm Totally agree, and I think its pretty pathetic how they havent atleast been bumped up to 85dps.

These weapons were released back in BWL, and were the most sought after and
prestigious weapons in the game.

Now they're just for transmog.... thats all theyre good for, as pretty much any R14 player has a AQ40 or Naxx weapon.

They buffed the WSG and AB rewards Barely in 1.17.2. - Still PvP'ers dont have enough choice, and their only Weapons for sole PvPing are just vastly outperformed from raid weapons.

I bought my R14 wep and just shoved it in the bank, never even used it, because I had better from AQ40.

Honestly that Epic feeling of finaly getting R14 I had in original vanilla in 2005, was not there, as I didnt have a strong epic weapon that people only could fantasize of having, and thats pretty fucking sad for the hardest grind in the game.

oh well
Well just imagine this, If in TBC for example, when Sunwell Plateau raid is out, and you could only wear Season 1 Gladiator gear.... Does this make sense? no it doesnt.

Caracole
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Caracole » Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:34 pm

All the pvp gear is quite sad, especially given how hard it is to get it (in terms of time investment), especially with the current population of TWoW.

Shouldn't the blue pvp gear be a staple for fresh lvl60 pvp-oriented players? But it's not, because it takes forever and it's so much easier to get in MC/ZG.

I don't know whether the solution would to make the gear more accessible, or to boost it to make the grind worth it. In an ideal world, we would have both, and 3rd set would be created for higher ranked pvpers. But I understand that's currently not a priority.

There was a movement in this direction with the buff of the Warsong/Arathi/Alterac gear, but honor sets need love too, and they get none.

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Ataika
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Ataika » Sun Dec 08, 2024 6:58 am

Just imagine warrior damage in pvp with all these new weapons from Kara40
PVp is done

Eversongwoods
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Eversongwoods » Sun Dec 08, 2024 7:15 am

It is totally ridiculous, they should atleast scale all gear down to the iLvL of the highest pvp gear in bgs like they did in MoP. It is a bunch of PvE andies running twow so the plus in vanilla+ doesn't pertain to PvP.

Likaleo
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Likaleo » Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:34 am

Rank14 grind is for the title not for the weapons..

Geojak
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Geojak » Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:52 am

Pvp grind is an alternative to get to aq40 lvl gear without raiding. The grind is insane, unhealthy und needs to be changed so that points don't deprecated anymore.

The gear is fine, doesn't need a buff, just needs to be made easier to get

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Ragetto
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Ragetto » Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:20 am

Likaleo wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 8:34 am Rank14 grind is for the title not for the weapons..
That’s exactly the point of the initial post.

The grind should also be worth it for the weapons (and PvP gear in general).

I stopped at R13 because the insane grind for R14 just wasn’t worth it... especially since the R14 ranged weapon aren't better than my Rock’delar (hunter quest), even though it’s 1000 times harder to get.

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Ragetto
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Ragetto » Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:27 am

Geojak wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:52 am Pvp grind is an alternative to get to aq40 lvl gear without raiding. The grind is insane, unhealthy und needs to be changed so that points don't deprecated anymore.

The gear is fine, doesn't need a buff, just needs to be made easier to get
The PvP sets are decent, but the weapons are BWL-level. They need a (small) buff.

The grind is insane for players doing both PvP and PvE, but it’s acceptable (while still tough) for those who specialize in PvP. Dedicated PvP players should have better PvP gear than PvErs (but I’m mainly talking about the sets here - R14 weapons should be slightly weaker than the best PvE weapons available, but still competitive).

Geojak
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Geojak » Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:39 am

Ragetto wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:27 am Dedicated PvP players should have better PvP gear than PvErs
Why should they, naxx should be the best gear in game.

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Ragetto
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Ragetto » Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:47 am

Geojak wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:39 am
Ragetto wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:27 am Dedicated PvP players should have better PvP gear than PvErs
Why should they, naxx should be the best gear in game.
Because it’s 100% logical to do PvP to get the best PvP gear, and PvE to get the best PvE gear. But weapons being tied to damage, they remain a bit more PvE-oriented.

R14 weapons should deal less damage than the best PvE weapons but include tons of PvP stats or a unique PvP ability (like a trinket with a defensive effect, a time-limited fap, a sprint, a CC or anything that provides a PvP advantage without impacting PvE damage).
Ragetto wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:27 am (but I’m mainly talking about the sets here - R14 weapons should be slightly weaker than the best PvE weapons available, but still competitive).
But still, if a server is at Naxx (and soon Kara40), R14 weapons shouldn’t still be stuck at BWL-level. It made sense when PvP gear was first introduced in vanilla, but it’s outdated now.

Grizb37
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Grizb37 » Sun Dec 08, 2024 1:34 pm

Geojak wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:39 am
Ragetto wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:27 am Dedicated PvP players should have better PvP gear than PvErs
Why should they, naxx should be the best gear in game.
Thats a dumb perspective to have, like said imagine in TBC, you had to grind Sunwell to get the best weapon and PvP Weps were stuck at Season1 Gladiator rather than Season 4 Brutal Gladiator

Eversongwoods
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Eversongwoods » Sun Dec 08, 2024 2:01 pm

The best gear for pvp should be from pvp there is no two ways about it and that is always how it was after vanilla. It didn't even matter in vanilla because such a low % of players raided and less than .1% cleared naxx. This situation here though makes pvp a side activity for raiders because most people play wow for one or the other not both and you are at too much of a disadvantage if you don't raid.

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Billymenager
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Billymenager » Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:25 pm

Another solution is to introduce a new PVP gear for rank 12,13,14 and move the current epic gear plus weapons to lower ranks, e.g. 9,10,11. As was the case in TBC and later expansions, with the newer season/raid, older PVP gear was easier to obtain. Besides, the grind based on standing, where you have to be a total no-life to get something, should have been changed a long time ago, this system is a relic of the past and is completely sick.

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Ragetto
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Ragetto » Sun Dec 08, 2024 5:46 pm

Billymenager wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:25 pm Another solution is to introduce a new PVP gear for rank 12,13,14 and move the current epic gear plus weapons to lower ranks, e.g. 9,10,11. As was the case in TBC and later expansions, with the newer season/raid, older PVP gear was easier to obtain. Besides, the grind based on standing, where you have to be a total no-life to get something, should have been changed a long time ago, this system is a relic of the past and is completely sick.
The issue is that the devs don’t seem willing to change the pvp grinding system.

And it’s this very system that prevents them from introducing new pvp gear (especially on twow, where ranks are permanent once achieved)

Grinspoon
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Grinspoon » Sun Dec 08, 2024 6:54 pm

it's a slippery slope to increase/improve pvp rewards because it attracts players who have no interest in pvp whatsoever to a mindless grind for gear.
the powercreep from higher raid tiers is an issue but considering the focus of this server is on pve I don't think much effort will go into fixing it.

Atreidon
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Atreidon » Sun Dec 08, 2024 7:05 pm

The PvP and rank system sorta worked when everyone in the bgs was running around in gear that for the vast numbers of bg participants was lower or equal to the blue ranking gear.

Having backloaded gear of any sort for pvp, No matter if its r14 gear or the so dreaded naxx gear makes pvp unattractive as a gamemode for people who dont have either of those bis options unlocked yet.

To that extent, with how easy it is on twow to get endgame raiding items, the pvp system as a concept fails entirely. Because people interested in pvp will have to go grind gear in raids (which is llamented here). Or will be at a massive disadventage for their entire ranking journey.
So the pvp gear that needs buffing arethe rep rewards & intermediate gear options. At least moreso than the r14 stuff

"I had to do this shit so i earned ruining your fun with my superior gear" is a cancerous mindset no matter if you suffered in pve or pvp to get said superior gear.

One easy way to solve this would be to create pvp gear that is meant as mercenary armor and grants a part of its stats only when in bgs/arena. That way you can fight on a fair(ish) playing field and the reward for high rank can be the same gear without being restricted to the bg.

Xudo
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Xudo » Sun Dec 08, 2024 7:11 pm

Real short-term solution for players is to avoid battlegrounds at lvl 60 entirely.
Even 19 bracket full of twinks is not flawed as much as 60 bracket.
If you want more class features, you can make lvl 49 twink and play there.
Battlegrounds of those brackets happen pretty often around 05:00-07:00 server time almost every day.

50-59 is not very viable, because players share same AV as lvl 60. Theoretically, it is possible to earn r14 at lvl 59 (source) but honor grinding is so awful that you don't really want to involve in this. Also, there are not enough 59 battlegrounds happening.
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.

Snkx
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by Snkx » Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:26 pm

The Rank14 weapons need bringing up to par with atleast Eye of Nerubs DPS... Think when Kara40 comes out we will see 100+ Dps two handers, and the R14 weps will be 77 dps. LOL

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killend
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Re: Why are the HARDEST Weapons to obtain not used?

Post by killend » Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:29 pm

As a PVP enthusiast, I believe that if the turtle wants to encourage players to participate in the battlefield without causing PVP equipment to perform too strongly in PVE, the best solution is still to add resilience or other damage reduction attributes independent of PVE properties to PVP items, so that the weapons obtained by PVP have limited movement, immobilization, or knockdown effects in player player battles, which are ineffective for non players and NPCs.

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