Dev Blog: Balance in 1.17.2

[Calli]

I think, linearizing weapon skill means 310 weapon skill will be much better than 308 than currently is.

Another question: What is about the ranged weapon skills? There is no glancing with ranged. Will they provide more hit with linearization?

[Erhog]

Adding +5 skill bonus rewards from various sources.

Could we have also a way to obtain other racial feats? Seems like it will be a very frustrated to people realising that their race were gimped while others will get the benefits which was exclusive to the only race for a free AND they keep all their other bonuses. Like trolls and their bows specialization but now it will be much more wider - it's like you can do not to pick orc for your precious ench but pick tauren and enjoy weapon skill as well as extra HP and AoE stun or as the gnome getting sword specialization and keep your escape artist and so on. Human and troll racials are pretty weak compared to others if we exclude their weapon specializations. Orcs racials is fine and probably some people could counting them as OP but it's depending on many other factors imo. Anyway - would be nice to have a way to swap your racial bonuses or upgrade races with weapon specializations with a new or upgraed current racials - for example give trolls +30 bonus speed at any health% but with 1.5x incomming damage or something this like.

[Chudman123]

This opens up all weapon types to be used by all races. How is that a bad thing that a good weapon drops and feel free to use it now instead of waiting 2 years for that specific type of weapon everyone else wants?

I really don't get all the whining...with such a simple QoL improvement and people complain proves that no matter what people will complain.

[Czxddl]

From the comments, it can be seen that human warriors make up the majority. Because this adjustment is detrimental to human

[Hajache]

what about specs that do not use weapon skills ... such as the feral druid, how will the feral druid be able to acquire weapon skill?

[Hajache]

what about specs that do not use weapon skills ... such as the feral druid, how will the feral druid be able to acquire weapon skill?

[Chudman123]

From the comments, it can be seen that human warriors make up the majority. Because this adjustment is detrimental to human

Humans will still have +3 swords and now can get +5 more from a book.

Please explain how this is detrimental to human?

[Borefficz]

From the comments, it can be seen that human warriors make up the majority. Because this adjustment is detrimental to human

Humans will still have +3 swords and now can get +5 more from a book.

Please explain how this is detrimental to human?

It will be very easy to obtain +3 weapon skill as a non human to glance cap while it will be impossible to learn Berserking and +5% damage against beasts as a non troll.

[Biteyou]

From the comments, it can be seen that human warriors make up the majority. Because this adjustment is detrimental to human

Humans will still have +3 swords and now can get +5 more from a book.

Please explain how this is detrimental to human?

It will be very easy to obtain +3 weapon skill as a non human to glance cap while it will be impossible to learn Berserking and +5% damage against beasts as a non troll.

That +3 weapon skill still has a ton of value. End game for example, the difference between wearing a Crystal Sword of the Blossom or THC in the OH versus an Iblis is pretty substantial for humans. Humans not being viable because of this change is just not a valid argument, it's actually no different than what it is now looking at end game gearing when compared to orcs.

[Chudman123]

From the comments, it can be seen that human warriors make up the majority. Because this adjustment is detrimental to human

Humans will still have +3 swords and now can get +5 more from a book.

Please explain how this is detrimental to human?

It will be very easy to obtain +3 weapon skill as a non human to glance cap while it will be impossible to learn Berserking and +5% damage against beasts as a non troll.

Dude I said like 10 comments earlier they should buff human racials.

Maybe make orcs on use not anti heal you too especially since hardiness could use a nerf.

[Chudman123]

People should make suggestions on racial changes imo instead of acting like this change is the only thing that's going to happen with cc2.

The druid comments around wep skill are positive as well as the need for racials rebalance and hopefully the devs and class council take notice.

[Piacrt]

Humans will still have +3 swords and now can get +5 more from a book.

Please explain how this is detrimental to human?

It will be very easy to obtain +3 weapon skill as a non human to glance cap while it will be impossible to learn Berserking and +5% damage against beasts as a non troll.

That +3 weapon skill still has a ton of value. End game for example, the difference between wearing a Crystal Sword of the Blossom or THC in the OH versus an Iblis is pretty substantial for humans. Humans not being viable because of this change is just not a valid argument, it's actually no different than what it is now looking at end game gearing when compared to orcs.

It has substantially less value if every race and class will be able to get +5 to swords. This mainly affects warriors, but rogues can completely skip Crystal Blossom and Anasterians now and just go for Iblis or Widows Remorse.

[Lazarvs]

This is not a good change, in my opinion. Part of what makes vanilla interesting is that while the other races are unique looking and have cool (albeit not powerful) racials, humans/orcs are always the go-to for maximum melee damage. This leads to the population of each faction being skewed in favour of these races, which is lore accurate. By removing this reason for players to pick said races, you're changing the composition of guilds/raids away from that.

I understand not wanting players to feel like they HAVE TO pick the main race of each faction in order to "parse", but I believe that's what made original Warcraft so great - the fact that you have a choice (either go for the mainstream race/class and have a gameplay advantage OR go for the off-race/off-class and enjoy being special, but with a drawback); this just removes some of that choice and leads into the same "everyone gets everything" mentality that came with Wrath and further expansions.

Remember, when everyone is special, noone is.

Warcraft II Humans Vs Orcs. That was the essence of wow, other races came as an addition to the main core of the story. What bothers me most, is that what makes the human race really great, appart from having "diplomacy" (wich is secondary in terms of importance, in my pov), is that it had +swords and +maces. Im afraid that, with this change, human race is the one that will become most nerfed, and i didn't saw nothing regarding a boost to compensate for this. Incurring in the mistake that i usually point fingers at, when speaking about what wow was, and what it is (retail), you guys are falling exacly in the same kind of mistakes that Blizzard made, you're bringing too much attention to the whining on forums from people that get mad saying the game is imbalanced. You're fighting a ever loosing war and in the process taking the original flavor of the game over time. Leave the mechanics of classes as they are and focus on solving the quest bugs, the armory, and the escort quests that make npc's invisible when we trespassing game zones.

[Lazarvs]

No it's a good change. Characters doing 30% less dps because they picked the wrong race is not good game design, and it should have been changed from the start.

30% is a major overstatement, for rogues its like 40 dps at the very top tier., which is more like 3%

All this does is screw over min maxers who are picking a race specifically so they can perform at the pinnacle of the content, so that some high elf warrior can feel better about themselves.

Applauses to this!
Couldn't have said it any better!

If you want to min max, don't go for the looks, you're a gamer, play as a gamer. If you are for the RP, don't come cry on the forums, deal with it. Like someone said, the game has 20 years already.

There's no being pleasent to 100% the server population, people are never happy, they live to complain, you think changes will balance the game? Pshhh, i laugh at you.. HARD!

[Slashignore]

make mindflay same range as the other spells please. :)

[Bogyone]

Perhaps it's worth to link refresher from Nostalrius: Weapon skill from 300 to 323 and the implications therein.

[Piacrt]

The proof that this change is controversial is in the thread itself, almost as many replies as the dev roadmap post in less than a day.

Please reconsider TWoW, or at least followup with detailed information explaining your reasoning for the change to weaponskill and racial wskill, how exactly will this benefit every relevant class that uses weapons for melee damage?

Warrior
Rogue
Ret/Prot Pala
Enh Shaman
Survival Hunter
etc

By homogenizing weapon skill as it currently appears, many +skill weapons will be thrown aside and never used again, instead players will opt for stat sticks that those +skill weapons would occupy instead. Also part of the fun of being a class/race combo is you can go for certain weapons even those in your same class can't reasonably use. Why take that away? Now everyone will just want the BiS 2h or dual wield set up and every other piece of gear will be unwanted.

This really does appear to be a shadow nerf to warriors specifically, as they are the ones that benefit the most of having a racial weapon skill advantage. Either you dropped the ball and announced this too early, or you are withholding a lot of info from this update that is causing a lot of confusion, or a combination of both.

[Eversongwoods]

put some raid bros in charge and they homogenize everything until its retail

[Charanko]

fist weapon shaman? and maybe off hand fist also? =P

[Gantulga]

I fear that humans will become the meme race since they don't have any actual racials aside from the weapon skills.
Is it the era of troll/orc dominance?

[Calli]

Humans and highelves will always dominate the population no matter what.

[Calli]

And another thing, the bow book was an experiment with results so future changes based on that are valid.

[Zeran]

Is it the era of troll/orc dominance?

Ye mon.

[Galun]

I dont understand why every single comment is about humans, they still have useful racials:
-Stealth Detection increased
-Increased Spirit
-Bonus rep

Goblins on the other hand without a buff or rework is just....
-+10 alchemy LOL
-+10mining LOL
-Sprint that slows you at the end and doesnt allow you to use abilities

Rework GOBLIN racials please.

[Gantulga]

I dont understand why every single comment is about humans, they still have useful racials:
-Stealth Detection increased
-Increased Spirit
-Bonus rep

Goblins on the other hand without a buff or rework is just....
-+10 alchemy LOL
-+10mining LOL
-Sprint that slows you at the end and doesnt allow you to use abilities

Rework GOBLIN racials please.

Perception is dogshit that doesn't even seem to work in here most of the times, spirit is only useful for disc priest. At least gobbo's racial has SOME use in PvE while Perception has 0 even if it actually worked.

[Piacrt]

I dont understand why every single comment is about humans, they still have useful racials:
-Stealth Detection increased
-Increased Spirit
-Bonus rep

Goblins on the other hand without a buff or rework is just....
-+10 alchemy LOL
-+10mining LOL
-Sprint that slows you at the end and doesnt allow you to use abilities

Rework GOBLIN racials please.

10 mining is valid, goblin miners dont need enchants to mine the new gemstone deposits that will be added.
Increased spirit? sure, if youre a druid...oh wait.
Perception is very underwhelming compared to most horde racials.
I agree that the sprint on goblins is terrible, would rocket jump be so hard to add?

[Nerat]

And another thing, the bow book was an experiment with results so future changes based on that are valid.

You can't possibly compare ranged and melee weapon skills.

And even so, when I heard about that book being available, I felt bad for troll hunters that became ever-so-slightly less special. By giving everyone the same ability, it removes some of the uniqueness that race had.

[Tanasa]

Rogue Axe gang rise up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWh5xZuR2Io

Edit 2: Yo homies what happened to embedding some youtubes trying to post a cool vid of the literal Axe Gang

[Mac]

These changes sound really great although until more details are given it's kind of hard to do anything but speculate endlessly on what they really mean.

[Hhplayer]

Hunters have 14 kinds of pets, but only cats, birds, and wind Serpents can be used.

Like scorpion, spider, bear, hyena, tallstrider, crocolisk, they either have no unique skills, or their damage and speed are not outstanding,

the CD of gorilla's Thunder stomp & turtle's Shell Shield are as long as 60 seconds, which is almost negligible.

pls make these pets more useful.

It costs a lot for hunters to change their pets, which leads them to choose cats and birds directly and ignore other types of pets

[Ghola]

This happened because Akalix stayed so obscure. If you dotn give the details, then critical player fill it out in there heads. He could have just be less vague

that would require having more than a vague idea

[Tanasa]

One thing is for certain. Any shaman not shooting green shit out of their hands to heal the entire raid will be told that it's intentional they are a big jabroni and to stick their head between their legs and kiss their taint if they think stormstrike should be worth more than a wet fart and elemental more than a play thing for people who put in the time as a healer dupe to play what they really wanted to play.

[Deeno]

Weapon skill for everybody

The main reason players are going for weapon skill is to reduce glancing blows.
I found a formula on another forum post: 1 - ((Defense skill – Weapon skill - 5) * 3%)
If this is correct, instead of this "weapon skill for everybody" approach, why not introduce negative defense skill as stat?


Humans gonna be extinct

Every forum "wow expert" doomer forget that there are other players and perspectives as well. Just because you are the majority here, and reinforcing eachother, means nothing. You are the same type of guys who predicted that nordanaar going to die when the pvp server is out. What about the human reputation bonus, it is insanely good as well. Oh you are into this minmaxing dps 7/24 gameplay, ok, but please dont project it.

Rouges with axes

Something smells FISHY here. Not that im against it, but ironic how changing a shaman trinket to give 6 mp5 instead of 4 is a monthy debate probably within the CC and the devs, while giving rouges a notable change that wasn't even necessary. Again, cool change, but the primary reading of this on my behalf is that "we only care about classes and specs that we or friends play". This might not be true, but the previous paladin changes cast a shadow to any class changes.

[Mac]

I like rogues with axes because I’ve wanted to play an orc or troll or dwarf rogue but not having axes feels wrong somehow.

[Hctwowfan]

double post, can't delete