What would you like to see added, nerfed or changed to the Paladin?

[Likaleo]

Hello!

With the announcement of class changes 2.0, let's shift our focus to the Paladin. What can we expect for Paladin? It's an open discussion where we can talk about what we would like to see added, removed, or changed. Be creative or wild, just toss out ideas.


I personally belive that its kinda silly that there is only 7 talents difference on spell retri and melee retri. I hope they change them both.

i would personally move the spell retri to the holy tree(it makes sense right?) with talents like

increase holy damage done by 20% but only if you wear shield

that way spell paladin would be like holy crusader who uses dresses ,runs with shield/1hander using seal of Righteous and having holy shock on rotation.

Melee retri would be on retribution tree with more melee based talents using 2handers.
i think vengeance should be changed to melee only. Atm its so strong that 3 paladin builds want that talent prot,melee and spell retri wich makes it too strong in my eyes.

[Wafflecrusher]

I'm concerned paladins might not be strong enough. I'm thinking they should get an AOE LoH, or perhaps the ability to fly.

[Gantulga]

Holy strike and judgement triggering procs have to go. No way around it.

[Aalena]

Here are the 4 things I would like to see changed if possible from a Retribution PvE point of view:

1: Make Crusader Strike less of a spammy ability. At the moment it has the functions of "Quickly spam 5 times for debuff" and "Keep spamming it with windfury to make it proc".

I would like to see it have a longer cooldown, make up for it with damage (Though shouldn't be too much) and now you only need to get 3 stacks instead of 5 (Though in the end, it should equal the same amount of bonus). Bonus would be if it did like in TBC and it refreshed -all- judgement effects!

2: Make Judgement feel more worth it.

As stated above, if you have windfury available, you won't want to do anything but spam CS. Judging Command also doesn't have much oomph to it unless the target is stunned; which won't work on most bosses / raid enemies. I would love to see them buff the talent which returns mana too: Actually give a decent amount of mana and not just limit it to Command.

3: Place Repentance elsewhere.

As a level 40 talent it's pretty much a dead talent unless you PvP - and as a 'last talent in a spec tree', that's disappointing. Maybe if we got an improved 'Mana return on judgement' as stated above, that could be our new level 40 talent and place repentance off to the side?

4: Make Seal/Judgement of Light/Wisdom scale with spellpower.

I want Retribution to be a 'Support DPS class' rather than just pure DPS. So having us toss up a Judgement of Light/Wisdom that scales - even if VERY little - with spellpower could be fun! Right now only Wisdom serves a purpose, whereas Light heals way too little to even be noticable - and already, only melee classes can get anything out of it.

[Tobbsu]

I love see the Righteous Fury get a new change bc only threat from light magic and is worthless if the target take less magic damage or immune to magic make your job become a nightmare.

Light shield is way to low threat on add more threat on it plz and remove the global cooldown and make it can be used while in silence it be lovely.

Ardent Defender is dead talent in 40 man unless you have over 15k to 20k HP to be good.

[Manletow]

1. Remove Holy Strike from the game.
Or make it a Talent deep in the Prot tree.
2. Indirectly Nerf Divine Shield
via adding Shattering Throw to Warrior
3. Crusader Strike is annoying BS cuz it kills my Totems so easily
Nerf that too
give it a couple sec cooldown or sumthing idk

[Jonyhand]

Change back to orginal palading except following ones:
1,Blocking recovering mana
2, Ardent Defender
Removing Holy Strike , Crusader Strike,and new Crusader seal effect.
New righteous judgement effect that slightly increase your move speed and limit emeny acceleration.
Adding new Exorcism in talent tree that could be used to all ememy,
in holy,it need 2-2.5s casting time instead of 1 min cd;
in defense,it has taunt effect
in ret,it recover 10% -20% mana

[Ichtacaforum]

I just want longer durations on blessings so I can feel like I'm actually helping someone out when I pass a random in the world and toss a blessing on them. With the extremely short 5 minutes, I always wonder if they'll actually get any use out of it before it fades. If the worry is that of people too easily getting a bunch of different Paladin blessings at once, make it so having more than one paladin blessing cuts any current blessings down to 5 minutes if they were longer.

Edit: Or, have it check to see if any current blessings are > 5 minutes, and if so, the new blessing being applied is only 5 minutes. Otherwise, 30 minutes.

[Manletow]

I just want longer durations on blessings so I can feel like I'm actually helping someone out when I pass a random in the world and toss a blessing on them. With the extremely short 5 minutes, I always wonder if they'll actually get any use out of it before it fades.

I agree 5 min is too short -- it should be buffed to 10 mins (to match TBC).

HOWEVER --
Blizz intended Paladin to be constantly refreshing buffs on their party -- they are a support class.
Just like Shaman is intended to constantly be dropping various Totems.

The short 5 min duration is also there for the "Paladins own good"
as if the duration is 'too long' then no one would bother taking Paladins into their party
(they would just pay them gold/silver for buffs then get a Warrior instead)

(Or worse -- get the Pally to buff everyone... then simply kick them from the group... then get a Warrior instead. LOL)

[Turtlesuit]

Protecting paladins requires more survival, hatred, control, maneuvering, and mana recovery abilities.

Survival: 1, as a tank paladin health is too low, compared to the other two tank Paladin that poor health can not serve as a tank position.
2, Paladin armor should not be ordinary, why not sacred armor? Can reduce or rebound spell damage.
3. Lack of active damage reduction and defense skills, unable to face sudden crisis situations.
4. The Red-hot Defender has little effect on the protection of anemic paladins and is not immune to fatal damage. They often die suddenly before the Heat Defender can take effect.

Hatred: 1. Hatred is too slow to work and can only be established by cutting the Seal of Justice. You mean holy spirit strike? The chances of this thing being dodged and missed are too high to serve as a hate booster. Would you say there is no dedication? Hey, man, this thing consumes a lot of blue. How many times can you use it?
2, the priority of short taunt effective time is not higher than the other two tanks, the other two tanks taunt effective time you immediately taunt is ineffective, which is fatal for the BOSS who needs tank relay.
3, no group ridicule, only by dedication to work too slowly.
4, Encounter will use the silent skills of the monster can not use any skill hatred, because all your skills are all spells attack. There's nothing you can do in the silence, nothing you can do but watch the monster run into the crowd and wreak havoc on your teammates.

Control: 1. There is no control interrupt ability, the only single control ability Sanction Hammer is immune to bosses and most monsters. Why is that? 1 minute CD monomer control technology should be more powerful, why is it damn immune.
2, no group control can enter, such as: group movement deceleration and group attack deceleration. It also helps to improve survivability.
3, the lack of remote opening ability, is currently in the face to open the strange, this is too bad.

Maneuver: Encounter the monster that will blow away and fight off the hatred at the same time can only run back with two legs, and when you run back slowly, your teammates have been killed by the monster.

Mana regeneration: Mana regeneration through shield blocks is a good idea, but it is very fast when facing multiple monsters, and it is difficult to regenerate mana when facing a single monster or a spell attack monster or a BOSS battle. All your skills are magic. What can a paladin do without magic? Not to mention being a protective paladin requires a lot of mana to establish and maintain the stability of this hatred.

There are too many defects of this kind, I hope the official can improve and strengthen the protection of the paladin, so that the Paladin can become a qualified tank, now he is really too fragile.

[Geojak]

holy strike truned paladi from a dead boring class to play and lvl to a fun one. removing it instead of reworking it is a huge mistake

[Zulnam]

There's plenty of opinions on how to bring pali down to the same level as everybody else in pvp so i won't bother with that.

What I would like to see is Sanctified Command made useful. Currently it returns 20% of seal cost on using Judgement with Seal of Command.

It is ludicrously weak. Even with these 2 points of talents, using JoC before the seal is about to expire is not helpful in any way to either you or your team. With 4 talents (imp Judgement + SC) it brings just under 80mp every 8 seconds.

It would make more sense and be much nicer to have it proc some mana gain on seal proc. This way you can passively be increasing the team mana. 1 or 2% of paladin mana to the entire party, similar to the shadow priest talent (or the pali shield spec, though that is self-buff only).

That, some buffs to prot and some nerfs to ret in pvp (tho not sure how to nerf it in pvp without also breaking it in pve; maybe make holy strike a stackable DoT?)

[Calli]

Unique ability for prot pals : Light bursts from the paladin, blinding all opponents in a 5 yards circle, increasing their miss chance against the paladin by 20% for 20 seconds, 2mins cd

[Mac]

Forsaken Paladin please.

[Jonyhand]

holy strike truned paladi from a dead boring class to play and lvl to a fun one. removing it instead of reworking it is a huge mistake

NO，if you really want it,pls play warrior.
the pala is more like a knight, with main melee attack and few holy spell.
in fact auto attack with command seal have more haptic response than countless pressing "1!" in keyboard.
i want play pala only for Reckoning and Consecration,but reckoning is already dead.

[Geojak]

holy strike truned paladi from a dead boring class to play and lvl to a fun one. removing it instead of reworking it is a huge mistake

NO，if you really want it,pls play warrior.
the pala is more like a knight, with main melee attack and few holy spell.
in fact auto attack with command seal have more haptic response than countless pressing "1!" in keyboard.
i want play pala only for Reckoning and Consecration,but reckoning is already dead.

You don't even know what you talking about if you confuse holy strike and crsuader strike

[Charanko]

Too much utility/survivabilty/dispels/clenses and too much dmg/burst; something needs to go;

[R0ck3rhe4d]

Is the Reckoning bomb working here at TWOW?

[Grizb37]

The fact that the discord icon for the class changes discord is a Paladin class icon with a cross through it seems pretty promising for nerfs lmao

[Bigsmerf]

holy strike truned paladi from a dead boring class to play and lvl to a fun one. removing it instead of reworking it is a huge mistake

NO，if you really want it,pls play warrior.
the pala is more like a knight, with main melee attack and few holy spell.
in fact auto attack with command seal have more haptic response than countless pressing "1!" in keyboard.
i want play pala only for Reckoning and Consecration,but reckoning is already dead.

Ret is viable in PvE now. That's a result of both holy/crusader strikes for the most part. Prot also benefits from this greatly, so like... I wouldn't mind keeping them the way they are in PvP considering they're still mediocre at best in PvE. I've love to see some ideas to buff paladin based on their original design if you have some though.

[Jonyhand]

holy strike truned paladi from a dead boring class to play and lvl to a fun one. removing it instead of reworking it is a huge mistake

NO，if you really want it,pls play warrior.
the pala is more like a knight, with main melee attack and few holy spell.
in fact auto attack with command seal have more haptic response than countless pressing "1!" in keyboard.
i want play pala only for Reckoning and Consecration,but reckoning is already dead.

You don't even know what you talking about if you confuse holy strike and crsuader strike

Holy strike=Heroic strick(one use mana with 8s cd and one use rage without cd)
i mean peopel will continuously press "1!" for making the most of 8s holy strike cooldown time,and even make a Macro
,put holy strike and crsuader strike together.

[Geojak]

holy strike truned paladi from a dead boring class to play and lvl to a fun one. removing it instead of reworking it is a huge mistake

NO，if you really want it,pls play warrior.
the pala is more like a knight, with main melee attack and few holy spell.
in fact auto attack with command seal have more haptic response than countless pressing "1!" in keyboard.
i want play pala only for Reckoning and Consecration,but reckoning is already dead.

Ret is viable in PvE now. That's a result of both holy/crusader strikes for the most part. Prot also benefits from this greatly, so like... I wouldn't mind keeping them the way they are in PvP considering they're still mediocre at best in PvE. I've love to see some ideas to buff paladin based on their original design if you have some though.

Holy strike insane burst comes from 1 problems, dmg tuned holy.
Double dipping vegan (+15% physical dmg) then the holy strike turns the hole strike int holy dmg and applies another +15% holy dmg.

This can be fixed like this.
Instead of turning the hole strike holy, only the bonus dmg from the ability should be holy dmg + spellpower.
The physical strike shoukd stay physical.
The hole thing would work like for example any weapon that has +elemtns dmg on strike. It doesn't show up ingame but it's there

[Invokersama]

Holy

- the spec is perfect as healers role.

- maybe add new range spell dmg deep down in holy talent tree beside holy shock with some SP Dmg talent, like Holy priest talent tree that share CD with [Holy Strike], why ? i think SP dmg paladins should be in same talent tree with holy instead of Ret spec, since SP Paladins dmg come from using spells while Rets use their AP to deal dmg or as engine, kinda like enchantment shamans (tank and Dps share some spec ), Feral druids (Tank, Dps), Holy priest (Dps, Healer)....... well that what i want at least



Protection

Protection paladin as spec is kinda meh, most paladin Tanks go Rets with 0/20/30 build for threat, i think deep protection need rework, the spec lack Survival, Threat, Range pull spell, Better taunt

-for survival you can easily fix that by adding T3,T2,T1 Protection paladin sets with all stats paladin need like SP, stamina, def and block etc etc... without missing with spec talent tree.

-Threat as i said protection paladin lack threat compare to Ret build, Thats why most paladins go Ret with 0/20/30 build, that why i think we need better rework for deep protection talent tree or better 31 point talent tree then [Argent Defender], maybe like explosive holy shield as bounce to AoE threat, idk added anything creative XD.

-Give us Range Pull spell or GUN XD, i am tried of asking Range dps to pull adds for me, kinda annoying, and yeah yeah i know engineering exist but been tank require A lot of money and i need to farm gold with 2 Professions. (and i know i can leveling alt to 60 to farm gold but that ridiculous solution some People like to stick with their main characters you know Causals )


-a lot of paladins complains about lack of taunt, and some think paladins shouldn't get taunt because that will make them too strong, both way i don't care anymore honestly i think i love [Seal of justices] but for love of god don't make it 3 talent tree and instead make it 1 point to get 100% taunt bounce.


Ret

- buff [Seal of The Crusader] auto attack by removing dmg reduction every hit, i would like to see the seal more useful with pure AP even if it's weaker then SoC

-Maybe Nerf [Holy Strike] Damage, and buff [Crusader Strike] in exchange, to fix Brust dmg issue, and to stop ppl complain....... :P

-maybe better 31 talent tree point then [Repentance]

- other then that i think Ret paladin is ok right now even without changes in both PvE and PvP.

PvE: the spec is fun while leveling, and also END game content like AQ40 and Naxx, we have rough life in early 60s
content like BWL, MC, 20 raids because of mana after you get full T2 and above life start been ezer even
without windfury.

PvP: paladins still ok, and before you attack me, yes paladin have brust damage issue but MY BROTHER IN LIGHT
EVERY SINGLE SPELL DAMAGE CLASS ALSO DO
then the right call wouldn't be Nerfing paladins only but all spell dmg classes in general ( pvp only ), maybe
something like [stamina : reduce crit damage from other players] or etc etc.


(sorry for bad English :) )

[Akos1896]

I mostly agree with you.
For palas they get the PVP hate because holy damage is really nasty in TWOW + usually a caster died quick after you start bonging with a sword but bubble+shield+plate prevents that.

For holy I'd add something unique. Right now they are 100% focused on single target healing which is viable but very boring. Would sneak in some alternatives without breaking class flavor. My best idea is a deep holy talent for a hot blessing. Other than that.. They need gearing but after that they are fine. Maybe raising quick heal amount AND mana cost a bit so they are better early.

For prot I totally agree. It's not a class flavor restriction if it just forces people to take engineering to actually use a build. Range pull is a big yes.

For retri, another issue I see is the threat/damage in raids. Most classes have own threat reduction talents. Retri has a blessing to reduce threat. But while retri only has that, a mage f.ex. gets his own threat reduction+pala blessing. At the end of the day retri takes over threat which much less damage than a mage. Would give them added threat reduction, increased maintained damage (they need help for raids) but would def cut down they burst potential.

[Wrathweaver]

Holy strike would fit well in the retribution tree, but nerfed to not be too powerful in dps to outshine shockadin.
I have no love for holy strike myself and find it bothersome compared to the seal playstyle.

Dont play protection, but if something must happen i think a taunt would fit better than holy strike in the talent tree.
Holy strike doesnt really fit in a protection paladin in my opinion, its more retribution in style.

Spamming crusader strike is very very annoying, it worked well before jotc was changed to proc since you had a choice if you wanted to debuff a bit extra when it stacked with jotc.
Perhaps consider removing crusader strike or put it on a cooldown and solve tank problems in other ways.

Make jotc do holy debuff again and buff the effect, add damage or increase debuff time.

What i wish is to have access to all vanilla paladin spells again with a small dps buff and maybe add another fun seal.
More focus on the seal playstyle for paladin instead of burst paladin.