Turtle WoW

I've been thinking for some time that it would be helpful for melee dps classes to be able to apply a modest weapon skill enchant to their glove slot, especially if their preferred race doesn't have a weaponskill racial ability. In order to preserve, in a smaller way, the value of items having weaponskill as well as racial weaponskill abilities, the enchants could provide up to 5 weapon skill on a weapon category (i.e. if you already have 305 weapon skill or over 305 weapon skill then the enchant would have no effect). Edgemaster's Handguards would still retain a good deal of their value due to only taking up one bag slot and having mroe weapon skill that what I propose.

In terms of the economics of the enchant, perhaps the weapon categories could be distributed between leatherworkers and blacksmiths. Leatherworkers could get "Lumberjack's Grip Tape" that adds up to 5 weapon skill to 1h and 2h axes. Blacksmiths could get "Fencing Modification" for up to 5 weapon skill to 1h and 2h swords. I don't know what flavor a mace enchant would be and how to distribute it, perhaps "Mason's Glove Reinforcement" and it could be distributed between the two. I'm sure there are more sensible names and distribution schemes that others can come up with.

What do you guys think?

Anything that lets people pick the race they want and not feel "forced" into a jabroni (humans, orcs) with the face of a butt for max dps gets my vote

Edit: Goblins notably omitted from the butt face because they have the shrewd elegantly drawn features of cunning merchants.

I like the idea, +1
Getting weapon skill for certain types of weapons is way harder than it should be (or straight up impossible) and the price and prevalence of Edgemaster's in endgame is frankly ridiculous - it's a lvl 44 item, for crying out loud!
Spellcasters get awesome endgame gloves enchants +20 spell damage per element, why should melee not get something similar in the form of +skill per weapon type?

Then weaponskill racials should be replaced with something else for orcs,goblins and humans, and it should be replaced for trolls and highelves since the bow book to stay fair to those races.

I'd rather see the Racials turned into Crit.

Then a level 60 quest that involves a short chain to master the skill, which then rewards a book with +5 Skill.

Also I think feral druids would then need a +5 Skill to their hidden claw weapon.

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:49 am

Then weaponskill racials should be replaced with something else for orcs,goblins and humans, and it should be replaced for trolls and highelves since the bow book to stay fair to those races.

Are you saying you'd like to see the racials removed as a result of my proposed change? That certainly would level the playing field but then you'd have only a few opportunities in the entire game to get above 5 weapon skill (e.g. Edgemaster's, OEB, the mace pants). I'd rather see more options than less, personally.

Grizb37 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:54 am

I'd rather see the Racials turned into Crit.

Then a level 60 quest that involves a short chain to master the skill, which then rewards a book with +5 Skill.

Also I think feral druids would then need a +5 Skill to their hidden claw weapon.

So basically the same thing--remove possibilities from the game for all classes but druids. Why do you think this is a good idea?

Ninjerk wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:14 am

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:49 am

Then weaponskill racials should be replaced with something else for orcs,goblins and humans, and it should be replaced for trolls and highelves since the bow book to stay fair to those races.

Are you saying you'd like to see the racials removed as a result of my proposed change? That certainly would level the playing field but then you'd have only a few opportunities in the entire game to get above 5 weapon skill (e.g. Edgemaster's, OEB, the mace pants). I'd rather see more options than less, personally.

Grizb37 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:54 am

I'd rather see the Racials turned into Crit.

Then a level 60 quest that involves a short chain to master the skill, which then rewards a book with +5 Skill.

Also I think feral druids would then need a +5 Skill to their hidden claw weapon.

So basically the same thing--remove possibilities from the game for all classes but druids. Why do you think this is a good idea?

"I am a high elf hunter and you are a nigth elf hunter. I got +5 bow skill as my racial in addition with my other racials and you got yours. You go and buy the book and get +5 bow skill, basically getting my racial in addition to yours. So please give me shadowmeld too." This is why I said to replace weapon skill racials. So as a human you can also buy the book or enchant whatever +5 and it would be basically the same as now, and no race would be in disadvantage.

Turning those racials into crit would be a mistake to make more useless racials and undervalue humans,orcs,goblins.

Another solution would be to give only +3 from book or enchant.
Also, arms warriors should also get weapon skill from their weapon specialization talents like rogues to make arms stronger in pve.

my suggestions:

make +3 one hand weapons only enchants(maces, swords and axes).

plus

buff HE and trolls bow mastery to something like spearhead mastery(+5 bow and +5 polearms)

Just give every race some sort of melee weapon skill. Problem (kinda) solved. Stuff like...

Screwdriver Expertise - Gnome +5 daggers

Primitive Weapons - Tauren +5 Maces

Savage Spears - Troll +5 polearms

HAMMER TIME - Dwarf +5 Maces

Might be pretty cool, right?

Calli wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:07 pm

Ninjerk wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:14 am

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:49 am

Then weaponskill racials should be replaced with something else for orcs,goblins and humans, and it should be replaced for trolls and highelves since the bow book to stay fair to those races.

Are you saying you'd like to see the racials removed as a result of my proposed change? That certainly would level the playing field but then you'd have only a few opportunities in the entire game to get above 5 weapon skill (e.g. Edgemaster's, OEB, the mace pants). I'd rather see more options than less, personally.

Grizb37 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:54 am

I'd rather see the Racials turned into Crit.

Then a level 60 quest that involves a short chain to master the skill, which then rewards a book with +5 Skill.

Also I think feral druids would then need a +5 Skill to their hidden claw weapon.

So basically the same thing--remove possibilities from the game for all classes but druids. Why do you think this is a good idea?

"I am a high elf hunter and you are a nigth elf hunter. I got +5 bow skill as my racial in addition with my other racials and you got yours. You go and buy the book and get +5 bow skill, basically getting my racial in addition to yours. So please give me shadowmeld too." This is why I said to replace weapon skill racials. So as a human you can also buy the book or enchant whatever +5 and it would be basically the same as now, and no race would be in disadvantage.

Turning those racials into crit would be a mistake to make more useless racials and undervalue humans,orcs,goblins.

Another solution would be to give only +3 from book or enchant.
Also, arms warriors should also get weapon skill from their weapon specialization talents like rogues to make arms stronger in pve.

OK, I think I get you now, but I don't play hunter so I have to ask--do high elf hunters (or whatever class if they implemeneted +5 weapon skill book) not then get a total of 10 weapon skill? I'll be honest, I also don't know much about weapon skill for ranged attacks except that I believe I read somewhere that there are no glancing ranged attacks and thus weapon skill is not quite as impactful as it is in melee.

In any case, the book thing seems like a bit of an inelegant solution to me compared to enchants.

WRT what you wrote about Arms warriors, I think that's a great idea--I'm assuming you're thinking that you'd just add the weapon skill bonus on top of the weapon specializations that are already there.

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:49 am

Then weaponskill racials should be replaced with something else for orcs,goblins and humans, and it should be replaced for trolls and highelves since the bow book to stay fair to those races.

Humans literally have no actual racial except the weapon skills. Orcs have two amazing racials aside.

Bigsmerf wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:25 pm

Just give every race some sort of melee weapon skill. Problem (kinda) solved. Stuff like...

Screwdriver Expertise - Gnome +5 daggers

Primitive Weapons - Tauren +5 Maces

Savage Spears - Troll +5 polearms

HAMMER TIME - Dwarf +5 Maces

Might be pretty cool, right?

Same thing, then you have to add something to humans/orcs/goblins or remove something from trolls/dwarves/gnomes..etc

Ninjerk wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:42 pm

OK, I think I get you now, but I don't play hunter so I have to ask--do high elf hunters (or whatever class if they implemeneted +5 weapon skill book) not then get a total of 10 weapon skill? I'll be honest, I also don't know much about weapon skill for ranged attacks except that I believe I read somewhere that there are no glancing ranged attacks and thus weapon skill is not quite as impactful as it is in melee.

In any case, the book thing seems like a bit of an inelegant solution to me compared to enchants.

WRT what you wrote about Arms warriors, I think that's a great idea--I'm assuming you're thinking that you'd just add the weapon skill bonus on top of the weapon specializations that are already there.

I am not sure about that if they could reach 10 weapon skill. what I surely know that for ranged weapons no point to go above 5.

For melee the cap is 8, so it can be beneficial, but then we would be in a place where we are at now with "meta" races.

For warriors, yes weapon skill could be added to their existing specialization talents addition to crit or replacing it.

Calli wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:43 am

Bigsmerf wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:25 pm

Just give every race some sort of melee weapon skill. Problem (kinda) solved. Stuff like...

Screwdriver Expertise - Gnome +5 daggers

Primitive Weapons - Tauren +5 Maces

Savage Spears - Troll +5 polearms

HAMMER TIME - Dwarf +5 Maces

Might be pretty cool, right?

Same thing, then you have to add something to humans/orcs/goblins or remove something from trolls/dwarves/gnomes..etc

Do you actually? I mean- if it is a real problem I'd like to hear how this disrupts the balance in any significant way, but to me it just seems like levelling the playing field.

Gloves enchant for +5 specific weapon skill is good solution.
If you are human/orc/goblin, you can enchant +9 Strength / +15 Agility.
Otherwise use +5 skill to improve own melee DPS.

The book for +5 skill will render useless racial skill.

I wonder why turtle devs decided to give racials to goblins those should have given to dwarves? Like mace expertise and mining. They should have gotten +damage or shorter cooldowns on explosives and +engineering skills. It is just weird to thinking about goblins as great warriors like orcs and humans.

Elisleris wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:21 pm

Gloves enchant for +5 specific weapon skill is good solution.
If you are human/orc/goblin, you can enchant +9 Strength / +15 Agility.
Otherwise use +5 skill to improve own melee DPS.

The book for +5 skill will render useless racial skill.

+9/+15 agi is nothing compared to +5 weapon skill. Then a head/legs enchant would be better to provide +3 weapon skill, so people can customize to have head enchant +3 and for example kara sword +4

Offensive cloak enchants basically do not exist. It's free real estate right now.

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:25 am

Offensive cloak enchants basically do not exist. It's free real estate right now.

And what would races with weaponskill racial would get to be better? +3 agi? lmao

Calli wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:06 pm

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:25 am

Offensive cloak enchants basically do not exist. It's free real estate right now.

And what would races with weaponskill racial would get to be better? +3 agi? lmao

They'd get the new, relevant cloak enchants that'd come with the same patch like 12 agi/str or haste/ARP. The cloak weapon enchants would provide +3.

Bigsmerf wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:25 pm

Just give every race some sort of melee weapon skill. Problem (kinda) solved. Stuff like...

Screwdriver Expertise - Gnome +5 daggers

Primitive Weapons - Tauren +5 Maces

Savage Spears - Troll +5 polearms

HAMMER TIME - Dwarf +5 Maces

Might be pretty cool, right?

Yep. The devs would probably need to add a few more custom items to make it work perfectly, but that's not really a problem.
I'd modify your example slightly by ensuring every race gets a 1-h and a 2-h option. For example, trolls could get a +5 on unarmed (fist weapons) on top of +5 to polearms.