How are druids atm?

[Anythinggoes]

Hi,

I made an account here a year or two ago, got a druid to 35, and decided to stop playing WoW for a long time.
Now I want to get back but given the unique balance of this server, I wonder if Druid is right for me.

Druids are well known for being horrible in vanilla and I don't want to be undesired in both PvE and PvP. Having to beg to be taken in a group is not exactly a good time, IMHO.

I aim to play as a caster in world PvP/battlegrounds, do the occasional 5-man/raid if I am wanted, and generally have fun. Are boomkins good here? In any area of the game? The other class I have always enjoyed is a mage, but they are very one-dimensional, lacking in variety compared to a druid.

Can you recommend any other class if the druid is not good? I tried looking around the comments, people claim ret palas are pretty strong in PvP, but I find them boring. Warriors rely on their gear and a pocket heal to be decent, rogues get old fast, hunters I hate for some reason, maybe warlock or priest?

[Akos1896]

Druids are good.
viewtopic.php?t=2197
I'm not a druid main. I can tell what I saw but having no real expertise.
As far as I see, moonkins are wanted in raids as a 1-2 of. Moonkin aure is useful and a custom idol in Kara10 makes it 4% from 3%.
Other than that, for moonkins, I'm unsure. You won't regularly outDPS mages most probably but you'll def find a guild. Specially since most guilds are understaffed and would welcome almost any build.

Also, Emerald Sanctum, a custom raid is very good for moonkins, cool items there. There is also a druid buff you can get there. It is very strong but I'm unsure if it's usually used by moonkins.

Also, this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=10761

ALso, for druids in general:
As far as I see, 1 tree is welcome at any raid for the healer party.
Cats... I'm unsure.
Bears are very potent tanks here. Classic Wow had 1 real tanking class, TWOW has 2. With the exception of some Naxx bosses.

[Bigsmerf]

Druid never was terrible and especially here that is not the case... Well, boomkin is definitely still very weak, but the spec has a lot of problems at least partially addressed and the utility makes them pretty desirable. I'd say it's pretty decent in PvP. You can kite/dot, starfire does good damage when you find those moments to do so or start a fight with control and advantage. PvE and group play is where they shine though.

Insect swarm is good utility, as is faerie fire, innervate, bres, off heals, and root in locations that allow it. You'll probably be taking imp thorns so the extra bit of indirect damage from the tank. I've actually seen a few guilds looking for specifically boomkins in advertisements because of their uses.

All in all? I know most would tell you to forgo optimal play in favor of fun, but personally I think the fun playstyle is the optimal one.

[Majestik51]

druid = broken class in turtle

[Akos1896]

Druid never was terrible and especially here that is not the case... Well, boomkin is definitely still very weak, but the spec has a lot of problems at least partially addressed and the utility makes them pretty desirable. I'd say it's pretty decent in PvP. You can kite/dot, starfire does good damage when you find those moments to do so or start a fight with control and advantage. PvE and group play is where they shine though.

Insect swarm is good utility, as is faerie fire, innervate, bres, off heals, and root in locations that allow it. You'll probably be taking imp thorns so the extra bit of indirect damage from the tank. I've actually seen a few guilds looking for specifically boomkins in advertisements because of their uses.

All in all? I know most would tell you to forgo optimal play in favor of fun, but personally I think the fun playstyle is the optimal one.

I agree. Our guild is looking for a 2nd moonkin raider right now. We have one but having 2 for 2 caster groups would be fenomenal. Also, cool looks.

One more thing. Spriests and arcane mages are buffed here, they are viable team-support specs. Because of this, there is more shadow and arcane damage in raids than usual, you can usually get curse of shadow more easily/even with fewer warlocks, which can somewhat help on the DPS meter.

[Drubarrymooer]

If you're worried about how high your dps will be, roll a warrior. If you're interested in a very versatile class that can succeed in any spec, does good to great dps depending on gear and skill level, and is a competent healer, etc keep leveling your druid.

[Anythinggoes]

Thanks for the replies. I see there is a new pvp server here. Is it worth playing on? Lvl 35 is nothing so I may as well reroll. The population seems to heavily favor Alliance, but this probably also means HUUGE queues for BG, so Horde seems like a better choice?

[Drubarrymooer]

Thanks for the replies. I see there is a new pvp server here. Is it worth playing on? Lvl 35 is nothing so I may as well reroll. The population seems to heavily favor Alliance, but this probably also means HUUGE queues for BG, so Horde seems like a better choice?

For PVP druid is exceptionally strong. Probably S class. I would definitely roll horde. Great pvp racials. I might roll a toon on Tel'Abim myself because of the low pop. That's how the PVE server was for a very long time. Cement your legacy!! <3

[Mahga]

I leveld two druids to 60, still a blast and with the new custom gear its even smoother.

As for the class overall, it's still dogwater : moonkin's buffs and cooldown doesnt make up the dps loss of any other caster dps, cat has no aoe or cleave so it's really bad on anything else than tank and spank bosses, bear is very solid even tho it still suffers from fears.

People said "play for fun" and "you have a little bit of everything". Truth is, if you want to raid, you will get rejected on the pve server. There's no reason to bring a druid over any other dps class if you're not in need of a tank or a healer (aka decurse / poison bot). PVP is less crowded, so if you're a warm body you'll get invited anyway, with the added benefit of being able to sleep drakes in BWL (current patch).

[Drubarrymooer]

I leveld two druids to 60, still a blast and with the new custom gear its even smoother.

As for the class overall, it's still dogwater : moonkin's buffs and cooldown doesnt make up the dps loss of any other caster dps, cat has no aoe or cleave so it's really bad on anything else than tank and spank bosses, bear is very solid even tho it still suffers from fears.

People said "play for fun" and "you have a little bit of everything". Truth is, if you want to raid, you will get rejected on the pve server. There's no reason to bring a druid over any other dps class if you're not in need of a tank or a healer (aka decurse / poison bot). PVP is less crowded, so if you're a warm body you'll get invited anyway, with the added benefit of being able to sleep drakes in BWL (current patch).

This is not true in the slightest. This isn't classic. I'd say 25% of the guilds out there roll at least 1 MT Feral. I have like 25 on my friends list that I can whisper for questions if need be. I was never rejected from a raid because I wanted to play cat or bear. I was only ever gear and skill restricted. Once I met those caps, I eventually earned a MT spot in BWL onward. I progged AQ40 in the MT core. I progged Naxx in the MT core. I know my experience isn't unique either. There are boomies in every top raiding guild. This isn't the all warrior/priest/mage meta in classic at all. Boomies give 5% crit to every caster in their group while pumping in the top third of dps themselves. Cat can top meters but is going to stink at trash...can't be great at everything. Cat will also give 5% crit to everyone in their group. Resto can pump out some good heals and I've seen most raids run at least 1 if not 2.

Last I checked, this is a game....an almost 20yo game at that, that was "beaten" 18 years ago. You're supposed to have fun in games. If anyone is taking this so seriously they won't put you in a raid, thank your stars you didn't get in that raid/guild. Chill, relax, and have fun w/ the rest of us. If players are treating you that way, come to BWG.

[Mahga]

I'd say 25% of the guilds out there roll at least 1 MT Feral.

Already said that Bear were fine

I have like 25 on my friends list that I can whisper for questions if need be. I was never rejected from a raid because I wanted to play cat or bear. I was only ever gear and skill restricted. Once I met those caps, I eventually earned a MT spot in BWL onward. I progged AQ40 in the MT core. I progged Naxx in the MT core.

Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man.

Only pugged in Nordanaar, have a raiding team on tel'abim. Most guild message out there are for furywar/mage/rogue/shaman healers. Ofc for chill guild they would take anyone, as long as you're a body to fill up the ranks. My point was that playing druid you have to be sure what you want, because there's no reason to stack druids.

Also, just check other topics from the druid section. The class still has shortcomings that were left out by the dev team (windfury, healing touch, hot stacking, in form barkskin). Those little thing can get very annoying over time.

[Drubarrymooer]

I'd say 25% of the guilds out there roll at least 1 MT Feral.

Already said that Bear were fine

I have like 25 on my friends list that I can whisper for questions if need be. I was never rejected from a raid because I wanted to play cat or bear. I was only ever gear and skill restricted. Once I met those caps, I eventually earned a MT spot in BWL onward. I progged AQ40 in the MT core. I progged Naxx in the MT core.

Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man.

Only pugged in Nordanaar, have a raiding team on tel'abim. Most guild message out there are for furywar/mage/rogue/shaman healers. Ofc for chill guild they would take anyone, as long as you're a body to fill up the ranks. My point was that playing druid you have to be sure what you want, because there's no reason to stack druids.

Also, just check other topics from the druid section. The class still has shortcomings that were left out by the dev team (windfury, healing touch, hot stacking, in form barkskin). Those little thing can get very annoying over time.

There's so much wrong here, logical fallacies aside. So you're opinion is that the op shouldn't play druid because the class has shortcomings on the forums? That's literally every other class on the forums. You go on to swap my opinion for your own as if fact. We have 2-3 ferals and 2-3 boomkins in nearly every raid and have been clearing naxx for almost a year.

So yes op, roll whatever class you think you'll have fun with. Druids are in a good spot rn.

[Rannick96]

Druids are completely broken in PvP, in PVE they are giga strong aswell.

Any normal classic wow druid main is gonna say the same thing.

[Gantulga]

Solid in PvE and extremely broken in PvP.

[Shenjo]

Hey,

Recently playing balance druid and can tell you yes you will easily find a raid spot because the 4% aura is wanted, also good utility with Combat ress, decurse and innervate and buff.

However even though the twow team have made changes to the class to address mana issues (still can be an issue in certain fights) balance druids still have problems with pushback on a three second cast is just horrible, it will impact your dps greatly. Lack of crit from talents makes your nature's blessing procs less often and with no ony buff in raids aswell. Lastly you won't be prioritised by guilds on the good loot items like Nefarians Tear, Mish'undare or even the Genesis set from AQ40 which has been changed for druids and is now great (irony).

Lastly Curse of Shadow... it seems the server suffers from a lack of locks and ideally you would have all curses up but again depending on your guilds rooster you may not be able to. Again Reck & Elements will be prioritised and if you don't have it up will also impact dps.

If you still enjoy playing the old laser chicken... great l did not however and decided to switch specs because of this, l guess its up to you.

[Zahnfee]

i roll the class since a month now. still lvling since i only play on weekends but so far its been a fun journey. At the moment im lvl 51 and i got the AV Spear today yay me! There is alot of utility in these new talent trees made! remember that druid is a jack of all trades to be played to its full potential. I cant say much about endgame since i have not seen it on this server yet but a druid, since it can fill so many roles is always a good addition to any raid team. Also Plaines Running in Owlkin is pretty funny!

[Anythinggoes]

I just don't understand how feral are "broken" in pvp. Please, explain.

Compared to a rogue, your advantages are heals and snare removal. Other than that, ferals seem like a rogue without cooldowns. Rogue that is also without poisons(crippling, wound, mind numbling), proper interrupt, and VERY, VERY limited ways to control the enemy, unlike a rogue(sap, blind, kidney). Ferals are better at running away too, but running cannot kill anyone. And if you can run away to heal, so can the enemy. The only way to counter Fear is deep in the feral tree on a 6-minute cooldown. If you had a reliable way to interrupt, fine, but you don't.

The cat is extremely squishy. Other hybrid classes like shaman or paladin can still take advantage of their entire kit and armor and stuns, interrupts and bubbles, Lay on Hands and God knows what else WHILE still having their FULL damage(ok, maybe except when in the bubble). You, on the other hand, have to shift to bear and while doing so, have absolutely pathetic damage. Bear is fine against physical damage and Frenzied regen can save your life, however, against a caster, you simply die one way or another.

Can more people with actual experience as a pvp druid add something to this thread? Throwing random comments without backing is just pointless.

I just don't see why not roll a rogue instead of a feral? I am far more interested in balance for pvp, but still?

[Jammyzz]

I think people are saying they're OP in PvP When they meet the one person who knows how to play the class, only then are they 'Great' but wouldn't say OP.

All it takes is to get hammer of justice in Cat/Caster form and if there's 1-2 players on you, you'll be dead by the time you're out the stun, Unless you're in bear form you get stomped.... So you can't deal much dmg if you're always forced into Bear.

[Gantulga]

I just don't see why not roll a rogue instead of a feral? I am far more interested in balance for pvp, but still?

Because feral provides more overall utility than rogue, has higher pressure with berserk up and is infinitely more survivable.
Bear doesn't do "pathetic damage", the opposite actually for how ridiculously tanky they are.

[Templar85]

I am playing druid for 2 years. Clearing Naxx for half year, exalted with Arena. In Naxx healing, AQ40 and BWL tanking as a druid. My opinion showing in the excel table.


I posted a lengthy druid analysis with solution and ideas here viewtopic.php?p=83965#p83965

Druids are good in BG and Arena but not broken. Handle druid frenzied regeneration as paladin bubble. Do you still hitting a paladin while has immune bubble? If you have an average IQ then you don’t. Don’t hit the bear regen duration time. If you do giving him/her more rage that equals more healing. Run away or root him/her forcing to change form losing healing ability.

[Akos1896]

This is interesting data, thx.

[Jc473]

I just don't understand how feral are "broken" in pvp. Please, explain.

Compared to a rogue, your advantages are heals and snare removal. Other than that, ferals seem like a rogue without cooldowns. Rogue that is also without poisons(crippling, wound, mind numbling), proper interrupt, and VERY, VERY limited ways to control the enemy, unlike a rogue(sap, blind, kidney). Ferals are better at running away too, but running cannot kill anyone. And if you can run away to heal, so can the enemy. The only way to counter Fear is deep in the feral tree on a 6-minute cooldown. If you had a reliable way to interrupt, fine, but you don't.

The cat is extremely squishy. Other hybrid classes like shaman or paladin can still take advantage of their entire kit and armor and stuns, interrupts and bubbles, Lay on Hands and God knows what else WHILE still having their FULL damage(ok, maybe except when in the bubble). You, on the other hand, have to shift to bear and while doing so, have absolutely pathetic damage. Bear is fine against physical damage and Frenzied regen can save your life, however, against a caster, you simply die one way or another.

Can more people with actual experience as a pvp druid add something to this thread? Throwing random comments without backing is just pointless.

I just don't see why not roll a rogue instead of a feral? I am far more interested in balance for pvp, but still?

I think you are drastically a druid's control on the battle field. Also, you are comparing them to a class (rogue) which is the king of locking down a single target (whilst still delivering damage) through stuns/slows/gouge/blind/sprint/vanish etc. A druid's control is more versatile; spammable/ranged root, feral charge, bash (1min cd, to be fair) and hibernate. Also, a form of control is the fact that they are virtually unkitable. In any 1v1 or small skirmish, the druid gets to dictate the flow of the battle. They can very easily kite you and either do some range chip damage (moonfire/insect swarm) or exit the battle, at their leisure. You said "running cannot kill anyone", yes, but it's still a very useful thing to be able to do. Also, just because the druid has 'run away' doesn't mean they are out of the fight. It's still very easy for them to reenter with a quick moonfire/insect swarm to stop you from bandaging. All of the above control is available to any druid spec in PvP except for feral charge which is only 11points into the tree.

As for your comment on having to switch between forms to access various abilities, I'm not really sure what to say other than it's just the fundamental design of the class. In PvP, any druid (irrespective of spec) worth their salt should be moving from form-to-form to play to the situation. All the good druids know this and it's how they maximise their value.

Also, as per Gantulga's comment, you have drastically underestimated a bear's damage output, especially given how tank they are!

[Drubarrymooer]

I am playing druid for 2 years. Clearing Naxx for half year, exalted with Arena. In Naxx healing, AQ40 and BWL tanking as a druid. My opinion showing in the excel table.


I posted a lengthy druid analysis with solution and ideas here viewtopic.php?p=83965#p83965

I'm curious as why you ranked cat druids as bad? On single target fights like Vael and patchwerk we're capable of 1200-1300 DPS which is up there with mages and warriors.

[Tanasa]

I wanted to take a break from my warlock after hitting 50 and try a tank.

Can anyone here tell me how druids stack up against paladin as dungeon tanks? I got a paladin to 23 but the kit and the flavor don’t really floor me and I’ve noticed on my main dungeon runs with bear tanks always seem just ridiculously smooth.

If it helps it’s likely I’ll top out in 5 man content/craftables, don’t have much interest in raiding.

[Akos1896]

In my experience it is very good. Huge healthpool, big damage to a tank, OK way to keep threat.
Some things to note though:
* When I tried it, bear animation was just huge (tried a tauren). SOemtimes I wasn't even sure what I'm supposed to tank ehre and needed to turn back just to be able to see. Not sure if it was a me problem.
* No dodge and parry.
* No consumables in bear form.
* Before feral fire you kinda have to come out of bear form to pull which can mess with rage generation.

But all in all a very viable tank even at raid levels if you wanna continue it. + you can always go boomkin if you get bored of being a bear.

[Templar85]

I'm curious as why you ranked cat druids as bad? On single target fights like Vael and patchwerk we're capable of 1200-1300 DPS which is up there with mages and warriors.

Rip and Rake doesn't scale. They do laughable damage. Rip does 1/3 damage of an auto attack. Only optimal playstyle is Powershifting, Shred, and for finisher Ferocious bite. Pounce is weak too.

When using Berserk can not switch out cat form or will lose the buff.

Auto and melee attacks can proc Clearcast, but the only optimal use for it is Shred. When you have 5 combo point and 100 Energy and Clearcast is up, casting Ferocious Bite and will using all your energy instead of being free. Can cast free Shred but can not cast free Ferocious Bite.

Combo points does not sticking to targets.

Can not use potions while shapeshifted, or a Sapper Charge.

Since the cat "paw weapon" is treated as its own weapon class, Ferals cannot benefit from Weapon Skill bonuses to Sword, Mace, Axe, and Dagger weapons from racials or items like Edgemaster's Handguards and Aged Core Leather Gloves. Bonus weapon skill is easily the strongest melee DPS stat in vanilla WoW, as it is the only way to mitigate glancing blows on auto-attacks and also provides Hit Chance. Since there is no analogue to +Daggers for the Feral paw weapon, cats are stuck dealing with the full 35% damage reduction on glances, which constitute 40% of their total melee attacks!

No benefit from Windfury or any Chance On Hit weapon enchant effect. There is no similar spell like what Wild Strikes Rune do in SoD.

MCP is as good as The Eye of Nerub Polearm from Loatheb. Heavy reliance on MCP up until very late game.

[Gantulga]

Druid isn't the only class carrying inconveniences (or rather class design choices) and mechanics they cannot use in raids. Feral still pumps pretty nicely considering the hybrid nature of the class, sometimes they pump even above pure damage dealers which is actually a bad thing.

[Anythinggoes]

I still think rogue>feral for pvp. The fact that you can murder people while still being in full possession of your entire bag of tricks makes it superior. You don't even need all your cooldowns tbh. Too bad rogues are so boring once you figure out how much of a murder machine they are. And I see little reason to play boomkin when I can mage and snare several people while dishing out fat crits. As for healers, if you don't have dispels, you are suboptimal. May as well roll priest, pala, or shaman.

It is fun to be able to do multiple things, but when the only area you truly shine is being a flag carrier in Warsong, why bother? Everyone else will do one of the things you do better than you?

[Templar85]

Druid isn't the only class carrying inconveniences

30-40%% of feral toolkit is useless on Turtle. TBC and Wrath improved about this aspect.


Ferals in raids can greatly shine when :

• Energy is unlimited like Vaelastrasz fight.

• Single target boss fights (Like Patchwerk) when druids don’t have to change between targets.

• Somebody knows feral druid 150% and using specially tailored macros for optimal energy usage.

• Using every beneficial consumable available and other stuff like Battle Chicken, Dragons Chili, Tel A’bim haste food buff etc

• In a best optimal group composition.

• Have good gear with enchants and constant MCP usage.

Otherwise they are limited and mediocre.


I think, having a diverse and useful toolkit is important. Also the skill ceiling should be high.

sometimes they pump even above pure damage dealers which is actually a bad thing.

If somebody do the work and know the class the dps numbers can be high. Its not a problem, it is a reward.

[Jc473]

I still think rogue>feral for pvp. The fact that you can murder people while still being in full possession of your entire bag of tricks makes it superior. You don't even need all your cooldowns tbh. Too bad rogues are so boring once you figure out how much of a murder machine they are. And I see little reason to play boomkin when I can mage and snare several people while dishing out fat crits. As for healers, if you don't have dispels, you are suboptimal. May as well roll priest, pala, or shaman.

It is fun to be able to do multiple things, but when the only area you truly shine is being a flag carrier in Warsong, why bother? Everyone else will do one of the things you do better than you?

Why are you comparing one spec of a Druid to a rogue/mage? Why are you just focusing on whether the healing spec has a dispel?

What you’ve written demonstrates that you do not understand the power of a hybrid.

“Jack of all trades, master of none but often better than one”

The last part of this phrase exists because of the versatility of the hybrid. Simply put, they can do things that a master of one cannot. Comparing one spec of a Druid against a non hybrid is a completely false comparison as you’re just neglecting a huge chunk of the toolkit.

[Gantulga]

Druid isn't the only class carrying inconveniences

30-40%% of feral toolkit is useless on Turtle. TBC and Wrath improved about this aspect.


Ferals in raids can greatly shine when :

• Energy is unlimited like Vaelastrasz fight.

• Single target boss fights (Like Patchwerk) when druids don’t have to change between targets.

• Somebody knows feral druid 150% and using specially tailored macros for optimal energy usage.

• Using every beneficial consumable available and other stuff like Battle Chicken, Dragons Chili, Tel A’bim haste food buff etc

• In a best optimal group composition.

• Have good gear with enchants and constant MCP usage.

Otherwise they are limited and mediocre.


I think, having a diverse and useful toolkit is important. Also the skill ceiling should be high.

sometimes they pump even above pure damage dealers which is actually a bad thing.

If somebody do the work and know the class the dps numbers can be high. Its not a problem, it is a reward.

You're literally describing rogue and retribution paladin by the way. Every melee DPS except warriors have to actually work for their damage.

[Tanasa]

In my experience it is very good. Huge healthpool, big damage to a tank, OK way to keep threat.
Some things to note though:
* When I tried it, bear animation was just huge (tried a tauren). SOemtimes I wasn't even sure what I'm supposed to tank ehre and needed to turn back just to be able to see. Not sure if it was a me problem.
* No dodge and parry.
* No consumables in bear form.
* Before feral fire you kinda have to come out of bear form to pull which can mess with rage generation.

But all in all a very viable tank even at raid levels if you wanna continue it. + you can always go boomkin if you get bored of being a bear.

Convincing enough to get me to roll one. Thanks for all the info!

As a secondary question does anyone know if they ever ended up adding Glyph of the Stag back as a quest or is it just cash shop only now?

[Reploidrocsa]

I did get mine when it was a quest, dunno now

[Zvyrhol]

Druid can't dodge in bear form?

[Akos1896]

I'm stupid. Of course, it can dodge. It can't block and parry