Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

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Imonobor
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Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Imonobor » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:48 am

Survival melee hunters are in need of some love, and their current capstone talent Wyvern Sting has nothing to do with their build.

My suggestion is to move Wyvern Sting up in the talent tree (or even to another tree), and replace it with a new capstone ability - Windwalk.

Those of you who are familiar with the Blademasters from Warcraft 3 will know what I'm talking about.
Wind Walk - 1 second cast - 20% base mana - 3 minutes cooldown
Grants you (lesser) invisibility and 40% increased movement speed for 5 seconds. Any attack you make will break the effect, but will be a guaranteed critical strike.
Dispels movement impairing effects.
This will give melee hunters some much needed mobility and burst damage. It could be too powerful if people use it with aimed shot, so maybe the crit part could be limited to melee attacks, or the effect could dispel if you start casting.
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Studbucket
Posts: 43

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Studbucket » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:07 pm

I like the suggestion and way you are thinking. Hunter melee attacks suffer from a complete lack of scaling, so this is a way to give them at least a nice opener and give them some more flavor.

The idea of "silently moving around" also fits the class fantasy of a ranger/hunter well.
Member of <Grey Haven>. Mains: Koukouvagia, Awsploda, Gordoba.

Ishilu
Posts: 325

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Ishilu » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:51 pm

I'll probably never be a fan of melee hunters and really liked the CC heavy playstyle that was possible in TBC. It's harder here but doable and i wouldn't like to see it replaced altogether in favour of a melee dps tree. However, that's not what you're suggesting here, anyway.

I've done some digging in the past and found the 1.1. talent trees here:

http://www.classicwowtalents.appspot.co ... =1124125_3

Working from this, I proposed in a long buried thread the solution which was roughly:
a) Condensing the trap talents as seen in that tree into one, similar to how things are right now.
b) Keep Wyvern Sting but enter a second capstone talent for melee hunters. Lacerate, Windwalk, knock yourselves out here, folks.
c) Add some dependencies, so that a W.S. hunter would need to invest into trap talents while the melee dps guy would have to put points into melee specialisation in order to get the melee capstone.

The idea was to keep trap hunters and melee hunters in the game without one excluding the other but also without overpowering a build with 2 capstones.

Pretty sure we can find a solution that would make melee hunters happy without making a WS weido like me unhappy.

Azuredrak0
Posts: 26

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Azuredrak0 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:41 pm

Honestly, survival hunter is not so much a "melee hunter" but rather a hunter that can be effective at all ranges equally, meaning if the enemy enters your dead zone, you can charge into melee and be quite effective just like at range.

In my opinion, the initial changes required are fairly simple:
1. Unlock Rapid Fire to work for melee strikes as well as ranged. This makes the cooldown universal and will allow hunters to use it at range as well as melee
2. Grant Wolf Form or maybe simply the entire Survival Tree some form of group utility via capstone talent in Survival talent tree. I believe 3-5% Speed increase to the group when in Wolf Form would make the spec quite a bit more desirable to the group.

Additional issues like lack of cleave, heavy mana use due to Wing clip and very little tier set bonuses for Survival melee can be addressed on later passes.

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Majestik51
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Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Majestik51 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:44 pm

cool idea +
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Dyco
Posts: 8

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Dyco » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:07 pm

*Edited, text fixed below*
Last edited by Dyco on Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ishilu
Posts: 325

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Ishilu » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:24 pm

Dyco wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:07 pm
I like your idea, and following the link posted by Ishilu this would be my ideal survival melee spec tree:


Improved Slaying (0/3): Superior Strikes (0/5): Deflection (0/5):
Increases all damage Reduces the cooldown of Increases your parry
against beast, giants, your raptor strike and chance by 1/2/3/4/5.
dragonkin and humanoid mongoose bite by 0.2/0.4
targets by an 0.6/0.8/1 sec.
additional 1/2/3%. |
|
|
Trap Mastery (0/3): Savage Strikes (0/2): Improved Wing Clip (0/5):
Increases the duration Increases the critical Gives your Wing Clip
of freezing and frost strike chance of Raptor ability a 4/8/12/16/20%
trap by 10/20/30% and Strike and Mongoose Bite chance to immoilize the
the damage of inmolation by 10/20%. target for 5 sec.
and explosive trap by
10/20/30%.
Gives your traps a
8/16/25% chance to entrap
the target preventing them
to move for 5 sec.
Decreases the chance
enemies will resist trap
effects by 5/10/15%.


Survivalist (0/5): Deterrence (0/1): ------------------ Counterattack (0/1):
Increases total health by Whean actived increases A strikes that becomes
2/4/6/8/10%. your dodge and parry active after parrying an
chance by 25% for 10 sec. opponent's attack. This
attack deals 40 damage
and immobilizes the
target for 5 sec.
Counterattack annot be
blocked, dodged or parried.


Wyvern Sting (0/1): Surefooted (0/5): Improved FD+Disengange(0/2):
A stinging shot that puts Increases hit chance by Reduces the chance your feign
the target to sleep for 1/2/3/4/5% and increases death ability will be resisted by 2/4%.
12 sec. Any damage will the chance movement Increases the amount of threat
cancel the effect. When impairing effects will be reduced by yourdisengange ability by
the target wakes up, the resisted by an additional 0/20%.
sting causes 300 nature 3/6/9/12/15%.
damage over 12 sec. Only
usable out of combat.
Only one sting per hunter
can be active on the
target at a time.


Killer Instinct (0/3): -----------Bleeding Strikes (0/1): Melee Specialization (0/5):
Increases your critical Your critical melee strikes Increases the damage you deal
strike chance with all cause your target to bleed with melee weapons by 1/2/3/4/5%.
attacks by 1/2/3%. dealing 133 damage over
21 sec.


Lacerate (0/1): Lighting Reflexes (0/5):
A istant strike that deals Increases your agility by
X damage increased by 45% 3/6/9/12/15%.
of your attack power. |
|
|
Windwalk (0/1):
Grants you and your party
(lesser) invisibility and
40% increased movement speed
for 5 seconds. Any attack while
in invisibility will break the
effect, but will increase you
and your party critical strike
chance by 10% for 20 sec.
Dispels movement impairing
effects.
Invisibility effect will only
apply when out of combat.
3 min cooldown.

Mixed some of the 1.1 talents and the actual ones, merged all trap talents into one (maybe add that fire traps can be used in combat).
- Lacerate bleeding effect will now work as warrior's deep wounds -> Bleeding Strikes.
- Lacerate will work as a pseudo warrior's bloodthirst. (I really think melee hunter needs a strike that doesn't depend of dodge/parry chance)
- Surefooted will now grant a max of 5% hit chance as the precision talent in 1.1.
- Merged Feign death actual talent and Disengange 1.1 talent into one.
- Added Melee Specialization talent from 1.1
- Final talent is now windwalk, I think the invisibility component should be applied only out of combat. Instead of guaranteed critical strike for just the hunter I think it could be better to add a critical chance increased buff to the hunter and his party to give this spec a bit support role (MM got Trueshot Aura). If the 20 sec 10% crit buff is too powerful maybe downgrade it to 5% idk.
Haven't done the math, but this looks like a lot of fun.

Dyco
Posts: 8

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Dyco » Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:16 am

Ishilu wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:24 pm
Dyco wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:07 pm
I like your idea, and following the link posted by Ishilu this would be my ideal survival melee spec tree:


Improved Slaying (0/3): Superior Strikes (0/5): Deflection (0/5):
Increases all damage Reduces the cooldown of Increases your parry
against beast, giants, your raptor strike and chance by 1/2/3/4/5.
dragonkin and humanoid mongoose bite by 0.2/0.4
targets by an 0.6/0.8/1 sec.
additional 1/2/3%. |
|
|
Trap Mastery (0/3): Savage Strikes (0/2): Improved Wing Clip (0/5):
Increases the duration Increases the critical Gives your Wing Clip
of freezing and frost strike chance of Raptor ability a 4/8/12/16/20%
trap by 10/20/30% and Strike and Mongoose Bite chance to immoilize the
the damage of inmolation by 10/20%. target for 5 sec.
and explosive trap by
10/20/30%.
Gives your traps a
8/16/25% chance to entrap
the target preventing them
to move for 5 sec.
Decreases the chance
enemies will resist trap
effects by 5/10/15%.


Survivalist (0/5): Deterrence (0/1): ------------------ Counterattack (0/1):
Increases total health by Whean actived increases A strikes that becomes
2/4/6/8/10%. your dodge and parry active after parrying an
chance by 25% for 10 sec. opponent's attack. This
attack deals 40 damage
and immobilizes the
target for 5 sec.
Counterattack annot be
blocked, dodged or parried.


Wyvern Sting (0/1): Surefooted (0/5): Improved FD+Disengange(0/2):
A stinging shot that puts Increases hit chance by Reduces the chance your feign
the target to sleep for 1/2/3/4/5% and increases death ability will be resisted by 2/4%.
12 sec. Any damage will the chance movement Increases the amount of threat
cancel the effect. When impairing effects will be reduced by yourdisengange ability by
the target wakes up, the resisted by an additional 0/20%.
sting causes 300 nature 3/6/9/12/15%.
damage over 12 sec. Only
usable out of combat.
Only one sting per hunter
can be active on the
target at a time.


Killer Instinct (0/3): -----------Bleeding Strikes (0/1): Melee Specialization (0/5):
Increases your critical Your critical melee strikes Increases the damage you deal
strike chance with all cause your target to bleed with melee weapons by 1/2/3/4/5%.
attacks by 1/2/3%. dealing 133 damage over
21 sec.


Lacerate (0/1): Lighting Reflexes (0/5):
A istant strike that deals Increases your agility by
X damage increased by 45% 3/6/9/12/15%.
of your attack power. |
|
|
Windwalk (0/1):
Grants you and your party
(lesser) invisibility and
40% increased movement speed
for 5 seconds. Any attack while
in invisibility will break the
effect, but will increase you
and your party critical strike
chance by 10% for 20 sec.
Dispels movement impairing
effects.
Invisibility effect will only
apply when out of combat.
3 min cooldown.

Mixed some of the 1.1 talents and the actual ones, merged all trap talents into one (maybe add that fire traps can be used in combat).
- Lacerate bleeding effect will now work as warrior's deep wounds -> Bleeding Strikes.
- Lacerate will work as a pseudo warrior's bloodthirst. (I really think melee hunter needs a strike that doesn't depend of dodge/parry chance)
- Surefooted will now grant a max of 5% hit chance as the precision talent in 1.1.
- Merged Feign death actual talent and Disengange 1.1 talent into one.
- Added Melee Specialization talent from 1.1
- Final talent is now windwalk, I think the invisibility component should be applied only out of combat. Instead of guaranteed critical strike for just the hunter I think it could be better to add a critical chance increased buff to the hunter and his party to give this spec a bit support role (MM got Trueshot Aura). If the 20 sec 10% crit buff is too powerful maybe downgrade it to 5% idk.
Haven't done the math, but this looks like a lot of fun.
Sorry, My bad when posting (I've wrote it as a talent tree but when posted it just scraped)
Going to re-write it and post it tomorrow

Dyco
Posts: 8

Re: Windwalk (new survival hunter capstone spell)

Post by Dyco » Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:26 am

Okay so, somehow I managed to fix the text. Here it is:

FIRST TALENT ROW:

Improved Slaying (0/3):
Increases all damage against Beast, Giants, Dragonkin and Humanoid targets by an additional 1/2/3%.

Superior Strikes (0/5):
Reduces the cooldown of your Raptor Strike and Mongoose Bitte 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec.

Deflection (0/5):
Increases your parry chance by 1/2/3/4/5%.

SECOND TALENT ROW:

Trap Mastery (0/3):
Increases The duration of freezing and frost trap by 10/20/30% and gives your traps a 8/16/25% chance to entrap the target preventing them to move for 5 sec.
Also decreases the chance enemies will resist trap effects by 5/10/15%.

Savage Strikes (0/2) (linked to Superior Strikes):
Increases the critical strike chance of Raptor Strike and Mongoose Bite by 10/20%.

Improved Wing Clip (0/5):
Gives your Wing Clip ability a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.

THIRD TALENT ROW:

Survivalist (0/5):
Increases total health by 2/4/6/8/10%.

Deterrence (0/1):
When active increases your dodge and parry chance by 25% for 10 sec.

Counterattack (0/1) (linked to Deterrence):
A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent’s attack. This attack deals 40 damage and immobilizes the target for 5 sec. Counterattack annot be blocked, dodged or parried.


FOURTH TALENT ROW:

Wyvern Sting (0/1):
A stinging shot that puts the target to sleep for 12 sec. Any damage will cancel the effect. When the target wakes up, the sting causes 300 nature damage over 12 sec. Only usable out of combat. Only one sting per hunter can be active on the target at a time.

Surefooted (0/5):
Increases hit chance by 1/2/3/4/5% and increases the chance movement impairing effects will be resisted by an additional 3/6/9/12/15%.

Improved feign death + Improved Disengange (0/2):
Reduces the chance your feign death ability will be resisted by 2/4%. Increases the amount of threat reduced by your disengange ability by 10/20%.

FIFTH TALENT ROW:

Killer Instinct (0/3):
Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks by 1/2/3%.

Bleeding Strikes (0/1) (linked to Killer Instinct):
Your critical melee strikes cause your target to bleed dealing 133 damage over 21 sec.

Melee Specialization (0/5):
Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 1/2/3/4/5%.



SIXTH TALENT ROW:

Lacerate (0/1):
A Instant strike that deals X damage increased by 45% of your attack power.

Lighting Reflexes (0/5):
Increases your agility by 3/6/9/12/15%.

SEVENTH TALENT ROW:

Windwalk (0/1) (linked to Lighting Reflexes):
Grants you and your party (lesser) invisibility and 40% increased movement speed for 5 seconds. Any attack while in invisibility will break the effect, but will increase you and your party critical strike chance by 10% for 20 sec.

Dispels movement impairing effects.

Invisibility effect will only apply when out of combat.

3 min cooldown.
------
Mixed some of the 1.1 talents and the actual ones, merged all trap talents into one (maybe add that fire traps can be used in combat).
- Lacerate bleeding effect will now work as warrior's deep wounds -> Bleeding Strikes.
- Lacerate will work as a pseudo warrior's bloodthirst. (I really think melee hunter needs a strike that doesn't depend of dodge/parry chance)
- Surefooted will now grant a max of 5% hit chance as the precision talent in 1.1.
- Merged Feign death actual talent and Disengange 1.1 talent into one.
- Added Melee Specialization talent from 1.1
- Final talent is now windwalk, I think the invisibility component should be applied only out of combat. Instead of guaranteed critical strike for just the hunter I think it could be better to add a critical chance increased buff to the hunter and his party to give this spec a bit support role (MM got Trueshot Aura). If the 20 sec 10% crit buff is too powerful maybe downgrade it to 5% idk.

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