Consumables & Gold Farming

[Nablatidis]

Allthough this is a welcome change,
I still think there could have been better changes you could have done. If stacking all these consumables is what replaces the world buffs you used to get - limit those consumables a bit. Because there were better solutions for adding a "raid buff". For example bloodlust/heroism, healer raid CDs like (better) tranquility or spirit link. Raid CDs are way more fun and adds a strategic element to raiding. It's much easier to balance for pve/pvp too since they very niched to what they do.

[Noyah]

Nice update.

Obvious BUT: death is death.
It punishes the player for making a mistake. The player loses all buffs except FLASKS (world and alchemy).

But I think you thought about this without our comments.
This is a bold step - let's see where it leads.

[Healingrain]

I am glad consumable cost and currency inflation is on the radar of the development team and I appreciate the spirit of these changes. Buff persistence not only alleviates the economics of the situation but in general makes actual raiding less frustrating and toxic and prevents the "I'm not going to use consumes because we're going to wipe again" death-spiral you see commonly in more casual or pug groups.

Unfortunately I feel Icecap and Gromsblood dodge the brunt of this change because they're for Major Mana and Mighty Rage potions, but I expect further monitoring of this and economic changes if it gets too obscene. One suggestion if I may is simply to double flask timers so they can comfortably be used once for the 3-4 hour block of raiding typical for most nights. Using half a flask is pretty feels bad.

As much as players may be upset, I think the greys from lasher farming really have to go. The herbs help to supplement the lack of supply a bit but the money printer going brr for 2/3rds of the classes in the game can't possibly be a good thing. It was baffling to me that it wasn't addressed before ZG crocs because it's far more harmful to the game in my opinion.

[Thyx]

The gold farming line will just be blurred if DME is destroyed. I have a feeling people will just search for far more destructive ways to farm gold and it will affect dungeon running as a whole. This isn't classic anymore that's for sure.

[Zvyrhol]

These changes don't seem to apply to flask cost in general. No matter how cheap some herbs are that are required for flask, there will always be one Black Lotus needed. Currently Black Lotus costs 50g in Nordanaar and I don't really think it will go down. These changes don't fix Black Lotus supply issue. I'm afraid flasks will still cost so much. These changes only affect every other consumable.

Supply of Black Lotus should be increased unless we accept current flask prices.

[Blehz]

Will you also do something against (Chinese) players camping, e.g. Rich Thorium Vein spots in Burning Steppes? I don't believe they aren't botting or anti-afking while standing there. But they're there all day. It's also a pain to get anything with these players being there during night and morning European hours if you want to avoid prime European hours.

[Ataika]

thanks for listening the community twow dev

[Lokaz]

[/quote]

Dying doesnt get punished anymore.

[/quote]

./me looks around as HC player :)

[Theolini]

Thank you very much for this change !

[Amptie]

Thanks for the changes Dev Team!

I don't know why some people are complaining.
"This is not classic anymore" Yes, this server is classic+, a server what could have been made by Blizzard, not just the same Blizzard did.

Be happy (as I am), that the dev team does something to help the player base. Blizzard has no support and everyone was complaining. On twow we have a good support with weekly fixes and changes that issue current playerbase problems and everyone is like "you should have done this and that". Just wait what happens, then you still can use critique, but first of all be happy there are people, who are concerned about YOU playing a free-to-play game.

Just want to repeat myself: Thank you devs and keep up the good work!

[Stirlitz]

Amazing changes!
Nothing to do with retail, btw, lol.

[Leizisoso]

give some love to infernors ... it need so long time to farm mats for petrification flask （ u need to seize mats with normal players）, and a mistake in raid may consume 10-20 prtrification flask .... i know inernors choose this way,but no one wanna take 60%+ time to farm mats(or gold for buy flask) , it's so boring and may stop ppl keep playing in inferno...

[Balake]

Was I mistaken in thinking that inflation was a concern for you guys? Isn't this one of the worst changes you could make in terms of managing inflation? Raid consumes are the biggest gold sink in the endgame by far, reducing demand means less gold is moving between players and less gold is removed from circulation from AH fees. Seems like a potentially disastrous change. If consumes being too expensive was truly an issue then you should make farming gold or consume mats more accessible - more/quicker respawning gathering nodes for example.

It's common sense that some things cost resources and not gold. Consumables don't straight up remove gold from the economy, they just circulate it around at a price that's based on the demand on that consume and the supply on its reagents.

Quicker respawning gathering nodes (increase supply) or consumes persist on death (lower demand) have the same effect on the economy and that's lowering the gold circulated to move these consumes from person to person, it won't create new gold out of thin air. It's not right to say one one will cause inflation and the other won't cause inflation.

[Sheed90]

Thanks DEVs! That will help us alot.

I would like to take this opportunity to draw attention to my idea once again:

viewtopic.php?p=84990#p84990

Hello everyone,

I creating this post in the hope that DEVs will understand the current situation of large raiding guilds.

Firstly, I'd like to describe my role in our guild. I manage the guild bank for the <Turtles with Benefits> guild, so I have a good overview of the herb and raid materials situation.

We as a guild have been offering flasks to our members at a discounted price for a very long time.

So far we have been able to finance all this with normal means. In other words, we sold no needed raid materials and bought the materials for the flasks.

The price of herbs has been rising dramatically in the last few months. Last week I had to pay almost 40g for ONE black lotus. And also the prices of herbs such as gromsblood, plaguebloom, etc. have risen dramatically. That's why we've limited the distribution of titan flasks to tanks.

That alone gives us cause for concern. Especially with upcomming to the T3.5 raid and the T4 raid…

Why is that?

In my opinion, the entire herbal system is not designed for this number of players. What's more, our Chinese fellow players have a completely different game mentality and suck up everything in the open world like a hoover.

I think, increasing the herb pool will not solve the problem. The herbs would just be farmed out even more and of course sellers wouldn't want to lower the prices any more.

A proposed solution that could also have another positive effect.

Daily and weekly dungeon quests with token rewards.

These tokens can in turn be exchanged for soulbound flasks, elixirs and potions. This would reduce the need for herbs and potions in the AH and thus hopefully also the prices.

Players would have the opportunity to safely obtain a certain amount of these tokens, regardless of the herb situation.

This would also have the positive effect that lvl 60 players with high-end gear running back into the 5 man and 10 man dungeons. Of course, these tokens could also be included in the small raids (Kara, ZG, AQ20). But not in the 40s, otherwise it would have no effect on the regular dungeons.

Blizzard already included those system in TBC in the black temple and hyjal.

[Saltypete]

You're destroying people's ability to farm gold in a reasonable time-frame — heavily disincentivizing engaging with the majority of end-game content — and forcing what used to be around 7k people (is now closer to 3.5k) into an open world that was designed to accommodate 1.8k-2k at most, and you didn't know this would make things ludicrously expensive?

[Inovatu]

best changes ever, thank you TWoW Devs!
Helps all Guilds in Progress and the ones on Farmstatus!
Great overall

[Gxmaki1]

I hope to change the buff of the Paladin to one hour

[Jannus]

slowly turning the game into retail

I agree with the above statement.

[Amptie]

slowly turning the game into retail

I agree with the above statement.

Because you don't have to quit your job to keep raiding endgame content? Sounds legit
It's not farming 10h a day in DM:E why people love vanilla. It's the old world, it's the long journey to level up to 60, it's the social aspect keeping 40 players together to raid on a regularly basis etc.

In retail leveling was not a big part of the game anymore, you went to other worlds/islands and lost contact to the old world, scaling went out of control pretty fast, you didnt need to talk to any player since group finder would port you inside the queued dungeon and so on

TWoW is miles away from "turning into retail"

[Zvyrhol]

slowly turning the game into retail

I agree with the above statement.

Because you don't have to quit your job to keep raiding endgame content? Sounds legit
It's not farming 10h a day in DM:E why people love vanilla. It's the old world, it's the long journey to level up to 60, it's the social aspect keeping 40 players together to raid on a regularly basis etc.

In retail leveling was not a big part of the game anymore, you went to other worlds/islands and lost contact to the old world, scaling went out of control pretty fast, you didnt need to talk to any player since group finder would port you inside the queued dungeon and so on

TWoW is miles away from "turning into retail"

I'm confused. Long preparations for raids were a big part of vanilla, at least for me. Retail became more convenient for players who had not much time to play.
Though in my opinion current state of TWoW is still far away from retail, the server still values fundaments of vanilla. This change only reduced the demand for some consumables.

[Jongyi]

You're destroying people's ability to farm gold in a reasonable time-frame — heavily disincentivizing engaging with the majority of end-game content — and forcing what used to be around 7k people (is now closer to 3.5k) into an open world that was designed to accommodate 1.8k-2k at most, and you didn't know this would make things ludicrously expensive?

This.
Devs don't know what the hell they are doing

[Inovatu]

pretty sure DME will still be lucrative for the people, just little bit less
i think the Devs know pretty well what they are doing and to be fair thats not the last change for the server, other Options are still there and maybe more will come
so please stop crying^^

[Zetheros]

In about a day, prices for oily blackmouth fish went from 70s-43s and is steadily dropping. Will you guys compensate us for tanking our stocks of materials that we spent time gathering?

[Inovatu]

half a year ago before our chinese friends joined the Server the prices where this low too, just went up because of greed

[Zetheros]

maybe players just need to git gud and stop dying in raids lol

[Zetheros]

does it make people feel better, beating Ragnaros on easy mode?

[Ataika]

these "tryharders" who complain this change is an easymode (rofl) can always throw their consumables away upon death

You're destroying people's ability to farm gold in a reasonable time-frame

Oh now they are trying to remove the biggest goldfarm that makes most other methods obsolute.
How dare they.

[Zetheros]

why don't you go out and farm materials, Ataika? Have fun spending hours running around clicking nodes, and give up your time raiding or leveling. That's what we do. My hunter is level 21, but could be level 30-40 if I didn't spend my time fishing.

If you don't want to pay the AH prices, go out and do it yourself. These changes make the game matter less.

Nobody is gatekeeping you from reducing the prices on the AH. If players don't like how expensive consumables are, the power was already in their hands to change it prior to this update.

[Plainbear]

I dont think that casual and hardcore should be measured on how many time in an hour you can run around Burning Steppe hoping to find herbs, so I'm happy.

[Zetheros]

Then stop dying in raids, learn or join better guilds. That's what we had to do in 2004-2006. Not everyone should be guaranteed to clear raids. The game is already far too casual with the tents and free mount.

I went past the gates of Stormwind and saw a massive crowd of people just standing there, under a tent. How is that immersive? How is that roleplay? Completely took me out of it. Why is everyone riding turtles? Sure it's cute but it's also immersion breaking in the extreme.

It was a massive fucking achievement to do endgame content in vanilla WoW. That's what made the game real to us, that's the golden carrot we were all chasing. Making the game easier is the same mistake retail did.

[Biteyou]

Then stop dying in raids, learn or join better guilds. That's what we had to do in 2004-2006. Not everyone should be guaranteed to clear raids. The game is already far too casual with the tents and free mount.

I went past the gates of Stormwind and saw a massive crowd of people just standing there, under a tent. How is that immersive? How is that roleplay? Completely took me out of it. Why is everyone riding turtles? Sure it's cute but it's also immersion breaking in the extreme.

It was a massive fucking achievement to do endgame content in vanilla WoW. That's what made the game real to us, that's the golden carrot we were all chasing. Making the game easier is the same mistake retail did.

Alright grandpa, let's get you back to bed.

[Sheed90]

half a year ago before our chinese friends joined the Server the prices where this low too, just went up because of greed

Yes, even with alot of players.

[Zetheros]

Alright grandpa, let's get you back to bed.

Get off my lawn

[Slashignore]

as an alchemist ..
why u nerf my profession that i make very few gold on in first place?

[Leert]

It was a massive fucking achievement to do endgame content in vanilla WoW. That's what made the game real to us, that's the golden carrot we were all chasing. Making the game easier is the same mistake retail did.

dude, it was an achievement because people used to cast their spells with mouse from the spellbook