Greetings everyone.
I want to open up a simple discussion about the Draenei about their "Retcons". People often say that "Draenei were heavily retconned", even though we barely had much lore about them prior to TBC. We met some(!) Draenei during WarCraft III TFT, yes, we know that they were almost extinct by the Orcs, yes, but that's about it.
So I personally do not understand why the people are talking about "Retcons" all the time, when it came to the TBC-Draenei.
As far as I see it, there's barely any base of story so that they can truly be "retconned". When reading the books, especially those about the Second War ('Tides of Darkness' and 'Beyond the Dark Portal'), I can see it, that some Draenei might not have been affected by the energies of the Portals, that teared Draenor apart, like if they sought refuge beneath Auchindoun (which was already an established place in WarCraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal).
Yes, I agree that the whole Spaceship-part about the Draenei is.. uhm.. yeah.. well.. "not very well written and hardly to believe", to put it in a nice way, but those are things that might be changed, IF Turtle would decide to bring the Draenei (even if it's their TBC-Model, which i personally like).
So again my question would be: What "retcons"? Has anything truly been "changed" about the Draenei? All that TBC did (from my point of view) was "adding" lore, not changing.
Draenei "Retcons"?
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
I believe that eredar&draenei connection is the biggest part of what people here call "draenei retcon".
Other things are insignificant and, as you mentioned, do not change things but add them instead.
Other things are insignificant and, as you mentioned, do not change things but add them instead.
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
Hm.. doesn't seem too big of a deal or "retcon" to me, since it also seems more like an "addition" than an actual "change". As mentioned before: the Lore behind the Draenei was pretty much unexplored 'till TBC. Even those glimpses we got during TFT weren't as much as we could say, that it would suffice to have a base of knowledge about their race.
So i still don't know why people would be against the Draenei as a playable race (especially with their TBC-Model) (IF Turtle would decide to bring more races.. like.. The Ogres for Horde and Draenei for Alliance - [Cause.. by all that is holy.. why in their right mind some would consider the Draenei joining the Horde?]).
Since Turtle is ignoring the Lore AFTER Vanilla WoW anyway, the lore behind them could be re-written so they'd fit in the Turtleverse.
And yes: I'd leave out all that spaceship stuff.. cause that was really silly.
I'd even pull the lore of the Book "Beyond the Dark Portal" to it (even though it was written years later and may have "some" retcons, but those are insignificant to the plot:
After the Orcis Horde almost extinct the Draenei and left through the Dark Portal for Azeroth, some Draenei may have survived and sought refuge in the crypts beneath Auchindoun. From that moment on they lived hidden among the ruins of their civilization. When the Orcs returned to Draenor and the Dark Portal was closed (the first time), they knew they had to hide again. Auchindoun was mostly their Home from that moment on.. and when the Portal was opened the second time and the alliance came they sought allies in 'em. especially since Kurdran and Sky'ree were captured near Auchindoun..
i have to admit, i have to re-read the novel, but in the game, Kurdran/Sky'ree were captured there.. and i'm pretty sure that Turalyon met the Draenei there for the first time. They helped 'em through the ruins to rescue Kurdran.
If we'd take that novel as a basis, it would be a perfect chance to bring the survivors of the Draenei to the Alliance.. of course that would be something for the future, when the Dark Portal will be opened here on Turtle.. and IF they'd decide to bring more races.
So i still don't know why people would be against the Draenei as a playable race (especially with their TBC-Model) (IF Turtle would decide to bring more races.. like.. The Ogres for Horde and Draenei for Alliance - [Cause.. by all that is holy.. why in their right mind some would consider the Draenei joining the Horde?]).
Since Turtle is ignoring the Lore AFTER Vanilla WoW anyway, the lore behind them could be re-written so they'd fit in the Turtleverse.
And yes: I'd leave out all that spaceship stuff.. cause that was really silly.
I'd even pull the lore of the Book "Beyond the Dark Portal" to it (even though it was written years later and may have "some" retcons, but those are insignificant to the plot:
After the Orcis Horde almost extinct the Draenei and left through the Dark Portal for Azeroth, some Draenei may have survived and sought refuge in the crypts beneath Auchindoun. From that moment on they lived hidden among the ruins of their civilization. When the Orcs returned to Draenor and the Dark Portal was closed (the first time), they knew they had to hide again. Auchindoun was mostly their Home from that moment on.. and when the Portal was opened the second time and the alliance came they sought allies in 'em. especially since Kurdran and Sky'ree were captured near Auchindoun..
i have to admit, i have to re-read the novel, but in the game, Kurdran/Sky'ree were captured there.. and i'm pretty sure that Turalyon met the Draenei there for the first time. They helped 'em through the ruins to rescue Kurdran.
If we'd take that novel as a basis, it would be a perfect chance to bring the survivors of the Draenei to the Alliance.. of course that would be something for the future, when the Dark Portal will be opened here on Turtle.. and IF they'd decide to bring more races.
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Philandros
- Posts: 30
- Contact:
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
Let's get into this Draenei stuff. I've essentially compiled all the references to them before TBC.
From the Warcraft 2 handbook.
(pg 59)
The Rise of the Shadow Council
Like an elemental force of havoc and destruction we thundered through the lands of the Draenei
devastating all that we beheld. Not one life was spared. No building was left standing. The only
traces of their existence were the blood-soaked fields they had worked for nearly five thousand years and the rank, acrid smell of the huge victory fires that consumed the bodies of their young. The Draenei were a weak people - hardly worth the effort of our raiding sweep. In the end, however, even these simple victories serve to keep the inferior in their place…
...
Yet without a common foe, even the leaders of the Orc clans blindly turn upon each other.
The appetite for destruction that prevails amongst these fools drives the Horde; might and might alone is honored above all things.
(pg 60)
...
The destruction of the Draenei left nothing upon which the great beast of war- could feed. After centuries of violence and warfare, we had finally conquered the whole of our world. With no enemies left to crush and no new lands to conquer, the clans had fallen into a state of utter anarchy. Minor disputes between clans led to open battle and massive bloodshed. Those chieftains who attempted to assume the position of overlord soon found themselves slaughtered by the ravenous legions of the disheartened Horde.
(pg 61)
...
Though the Shadow Council kept the warring clans pacified by the promise of escape from the dying world, I knew that this new order - much like the war against the Draenei - would provide only a brief respite if I could not find new lands for the Orcs to conquer.
(pg 63)
...
The agents of the Shadow Council reported that the denizens of this world were called Humans, and their lands were known as Azeroth. We found that these Humans were a weak race, farming their fields and living peacefully in the countryside. I feared that they would prove no more of a challenge than the Draenei, and would not appease the hunger of the Orcish war machine for long.
So as we can see from the origional lore in Warcraft 2, the Draenei were essentially wiped out.
Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal game manual has no mention of Draenei, Broken, or lost ones. And they are not represented in the game while in Outand.
Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne
Their first appearance was in the Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Alliance campaign where Prince Kael'Thas and his Blood Elves journeyed to Outland with Illidan and the Naga. In Chapter 5 you have an option to save the Draenie village from the fel orcs. Once complete Akama introduces himself and tells you on the deal he made with Illidan. "Lord Illidan Promised to rid us of our ancient enemies in exchange for our loyalty. ... The orcs hunted us to the brink of extinctions. But now, with Lord Illidan behind us we will fight back and take our ancestral lands."
In Chapter 6 it involved infiltrating Hellfire Citadel to bring down Magtheridon and you commanded three armies (Blood Elves led by Kael'Thas, Draenei led by Akama, and Naga led by Lady Vashj) to do a multi-pronged attack on the citadel and its fel orcs and demons. The Draenei used their stealth abilities to sneak past the fortifications and take out power generators to disable the demonic contraptions that guarded the walls. Illidan then replaces Magtheridon as the ruler of Outland and proclaims it to all the denizens (possibly uniting whatever is left under him).
After this the Draenei are not seen in the game, even after Illidan and his forces return to Azeroth.
"Retcons"
As it stood in warcraft 2-3 they were essentially a primitive race that were wiped out by the orcs and learned to hide in the shadows, using guerrilla warfare when needed (Akama says they had faught the orcs and their demon masters for generations). The 'pretty' Draenei were introduced in TBC and much of thier little story was retconed or added onto through the game and later novels. In Warcraft 3: Reforged their buildings were remoddeled to what we know as Draenei architecture and technology shown to us in TBC. And the Draenei area in the Swamp of Sorrows was updated after TBC.
The novel 'World of Warcraft: Rise of the Horde' was released in December 2006, which shares the background of how the horde found out about the Draenei, their technology, and their background. Culminating in the Orcs campaign against them and later using their souls to open the dark portal.
'World of Warcraft: Beyond the Dark Portal' was released in June 2008, which adds the 'detail' of second game and the Dranei hiding and helping the Alliance in Auchindoun.
Now to discuss what remains in the 'vanilla' World of Warcraft.
They were simply referred to as Draenei in all past media and their appearance was quite similar to how the Broken/Lost Ones currently look in WoW, with long, thin teeth and they spoke in raspy voices. The Draenei units could all use stealth, which is how they could hide from the horde and stay alive. Their villages were not advanced at all, basically huts, even seen in the Swamp of Sorrows.
The ones seen on Azeroth I would bet to say came with either the Orcs as slaves or free souls for the warlocks or Illidans forces and after these defeats were abandoned. Many of them looking for a way to go back home.
And the ones that were left in Outland allied themselves to Illidans forces, for which if he was trying to break free of Kil'jaeden, is trying to bolter his forces against the Demons. Who knows
how they feel about being made to ally with whatever orc or demons presence Illidan also took control of, or if they are helping Illidans forces break free of the Burning Legion or fall back in with them. Or created their own civil war with what little forces they have there to reclaim Outland as their own.
From the Warcraft 2 handbook.
(pg 59)
The Rise of the Shadow Council
Like an elemental force of havoc and destruction we thundered through the lands of the Draenei
devastating all that we beheld. Not one life was spared. No building was left standing. The only
traces of their existence were the blood-soaked fields they had worked for nearly five thousand years and the rank, acrid smell of the huge victory fires that consumed the bodies of their young. The Draenei were a weak people - hardly worth the effort of our raiding sweep. In the end, however, even these simple victories serve to keep the inferior in their place…
...
Yet without a common foe, even the leaders of the Orc clans blindly turn upon each other.
The appetite for destruction that prevails amongst these fools drives the Horde; might and might alone is honored above all things.
(pg 60)
...
The destruction of the Draenei left nothing upon which the great beast of war- could feed. After centuries of violence and warfare, we had finally conquered the whole of our world. With no enemies left to crush and no new lands to conquer, the clans had fallen into a state of utter anarchy. Minor disputes between clans led to open battle and massive bloodshed. Those chieftains who attempted to assume the position of overlord soon found themselves slaughtered by the ravenous legions of the disheartened Horde.
(pg 61)
...
Though the Shadow Council kept the warring clans pacified by the promise of escape from the dying world, I knew that this new order - much like the war against the Draenei - would provide only a brief respite if I could not find new lands for the Orcs to conquer.
(pg 63)
...
The agents of the Shadow Council reported that the denizens of this world were called Humans, and their lands were known as Azeroth. We found that these Humans were a weak race, farming their fields and living peacefully in the countryside. I feared that they would prove no more of a challenge than the Draenei, and would not appease the hunger of the Orcish war machine for long.
So as we can see from the origional lore in Warcraft 2, the Draenei were essentially wiped out.
Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal game manual has no mention of Draenei, Broken, or lost ones. And they are not represented in the game while in Outand.
Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne
Their first appearance was in the Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Alliance campaign where Prince Kael'Thas and his Blood Elves journeyed to Outland with Illidan and the Naga. In Chapter 5 you have an option to save the Draenie village from the fel orcs. Once complete Akama introduces himself and tells you on the deal he made with Illidan. "Lord Illidan Promised to rid us of our ancient enemies in exchange for our loyalty. ... The orcs hunted us to the brink of extinctions. But now, with Lord Illidan behind us we will fight back and take our ancestral lands."
In Chapter 6 it involved infiltrating Hellfire Citadel to bring down Magtheridon and you commanded three armies (Blood Elves led by Kael'Thas, Draenei led by Akama, and Naga led by Lady Vashj) to do a multi-pronged attack on the citadel and its fel orcs and demons. The Draenei used their stealth abilities to sneak past the fortifications and take out power generators to disable the demonic contraptions that guarded the walls. Illidan then replaces Magtheridon as the ruler of Outland and proclaims it to all the denizens (possibly uniting whatever is left under him).
After this the Draenei are not seen in the game, even after Illidan and his forces return to Azeroth.
"Retcons"
As it stood in warcraft 2-3 they were essentially a primitive race that were wiped out by the orcs and learned to hide in the shadows, using guerrilla warfare when needed (Akama says they had faught the orcs and their demon masters for generations). The 'pretty' Draenei were introduced in TBC and much of thier little story was retconed or added onto through the game and later novels. In Warcraft 3: Reforged their buildings were remoddeled to what we know as Draenei architecture and technology shown to us in TBC. And the Draenei area in the Swamp of Sorrows was updated after TBC.
The novel 'World of Warcraft: Rise of the Horde' was released in December 2006, which shares the background of how the horde found out about the Draenei, their technology, and their background. Culminating in the Orcs campaign against them and later using their souls to open the dark portal.
'World of Warcraft: Beyond the Dark Portal' was released in June 2008, which adds the 'detail' of second game and the Dranei hiding and helping the Alliance in Auchindoun.
Now to discuss what remains in the 'vanilla' World of Warcraft.
They were simply referred to as Draenei in all past media and their appearance was quite similar to how the Broken/Lost Ones currently look in WoW, with long, thin teeth and they spoke in raspy voices. The Draenei units could all use stealth, which is how they could hide from the horde and stay alive. Their villages were not advanced at all, basically huts, even seen in the Swamp of Sorrows.
The ones seen on Azeroth I would bet to say came with either the Orcs as slaves or free souls for the warlocks or Illidans forces and after these defeats were abandoned. Many of them looking for a way to go back home.
And the ones that were left in Outland allied themselves to Illidans forces, for which if he was trying to break free of Kil'jaeden, is trying to bolter his forces against the Demons. Who knows
how they feel about being made to ally with whatever orc or demons presence Illidan also took control of, or if they are helping Illidans forces break free of the Burning Legion or fall back in with them. Or created their own civil war with what little forces they have there to reclaim Outland as their own.
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
Thank you for bringing all these lore bits in one message!
There are two things I should mention though.
1. Illidan didn't bring draenei with him on Azeroth (at least, we didn't see them among Illidari in Northrend during TFT). Thus, those draenei on Azeroth aren't connected with him. But, as we saw surviving draenei in Outland during TFT, there's safe to say that draenei on Azeroth are just like them, survivors who managed to flee from their dying world to find safe haven.
2. "As it stood in warcraft 2-3 they were essentially a primitive race" - a thing I can't agree with. We see them now, in TFT and Vanilla WoW, living in huts and using primitive tools. But it's only their current state! As was mentioned before, orcs destroyed all their buildings and, as they thought, killed every living draenei during the centuries-long war. Their society, government, industry - all was lost. What would become with us, humans, in this situation? Stone age - or, at least, massive rollback in terms of industry, education, medicine and society.
But their sad current state tells us nothing about draenei progress in the past.
TWoW custom quests in Swamps of Sorrow have some information about their past.
[The Sanv Charm] quest:
"The world we come from is a hellish place. One filled with danger, with demons, and hostile to life in all ways imaginable. Food was scarce, and water even scarcer. I led my people to the safety of this world through our magic by way of the Rift. In the ancient days, my people created a charm that attuned them to the old world, and it held great magic. This allowed for Riftwalking, the ability to travel great distances.
Much of this skill is lost to us now. From stories told to me by the older generations, it was much more powerful than the primitive means we currently use.".
[Draenic communication] quest:
"Akh Z'ador is a Riftseeker who led us to this world. He was one of the few of our kind that knew the magic of our ancient ancestors. He was skilled enough to bring our entire tribe here, and that of the Fallow Sanctuary, with the help of the other lesser Riftseekers.".
There are two things I should mention though.
1. Illidan didn't bring draenei with him on Azeroth (at least, we didn't see them among Illidari in Northrend during TFT). Thus, those draenei on Azeroth aren't connected with him. But, as we saw surviving draenei in Outland during TFT, there's safe to say that draenei on Azeroth are just like them, survivors who managed to flee from their dying world to find safe haven.
2. "As it stood in warcraft 2-3 they were essentially a primitive race" - a thing I can't agree with. We see them now, in TFT and Vanilla WoW, living in huts and using primitive tools. But it's only their current state! As was mentioned before, orcs destroyed all their buildings and, as they thought, killed every living draenei during the centuries-long war. Their society, government, industry - all was lost. What would become with us, humans, in this situation? Stone age - or, at least, massive rollback in terms of industry, education, medicine and society.
But their sad current state tells us nothing about draenei progress in the past.
TWoW custom quests in Swamps of Sorrow have some information about their past.
[The Sanv Charm] quest:
"The world we come from is a hellish place. One filled with danger, with demons, and hostile to life in all ways imaginable. Food was scarce, and water even scarcer. I led my people to the safety of this world through our magic by way of the Rift. In the ancient days, my people created a charm that attuned them to the old world, and it held great magic. This allowed for Riftwalking, the ability to travel great distances.
Much of this skill is lost to us now. From stories told to me by the older generations, it was much more powerful than the primitive means we currently use.".
[Draenic communication] quest:
"Akh Z'ador is a Riftseeker who led us to this world. He was one of the few of our kind that knew the magic of our ancient ancestors. He was skilled enough to bring our entire tribe here, and that of the Fallow Sanctuary, with the help of the other lesser Riftseekers.".
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Philandros
- Posts: 30
- Contact:
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
This is where I would still contend with the primitive race thing. They used magic and stones or charms to travel through the 'rift'. So means of opening small portals, much like the Illidari did later on or using the Sargarite Keystone.
Still nothing noting great ships or machines capable of interstellar travel or being connected to the Naaru.
This would all depend on how Turtle devs take this information and decide to use it.
Still nothing noting great ships or machines capable of interstellar travel or being connected to the Naaru.
This would all depend on how Turtle devs take this information and decide to use it.
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
one thing i have to say though, that "primitive" can be kinda relative. Those texts from WC2-Manual are described from orc-perspective, so "primitive" can mean something different to them than humans, right? To an orc "primitive" can also mean "they have no honor" or just "weak". Just like in StarTrek Klingons have a wide.. "variety" when it comes to the term of "honor".
I'm not looking for any excuse to promote my ideas at this point, but "the victor writes history" is a phrase, that can make the draenei look weaker then they actually were.
But i agree, that if we'd bring the draenei, into Turtle, please no Naaru or Spaceships. That was way over the top. But i think many would agree with me, that their TBC-Model was nice to look at. (especially the female ones. :D)
I'm not looking for any excuse to promote my ideas at this point, but "the victor writes history" is a phrase, that can make the draenei look weaker then they actually were.
But i agree, that if we'd bring the draenei, into Turtle, please no Naaru or Spaceships. That was way over the top. But i think many would agree with me, that their TBC-Model was nice to look at. (especially the female ones. :D)
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Bigspliffa22
- Posts: 20
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
I don't get the whole "the broken are the only real Draenei!" when there wasn't much material to base them off of to begin with. I get the retail TBC hate, but I feel like the Draenei models are an unfortunate casualty of that. Those models can be recycled for Twow, Just not with the ridiculous spaceship Exodar intro.
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Redmagejoe
- Posts: 1125
- Likes: 1 time
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki ... ontroversy
When pressed on it, the writer responsible for this retcon even went so far as to say "whoops, I'd forgotten I wrote that, and completely changed the story". The biggest point of contention is the idea that it was Sargeras who was the original big bad who corrupted the Draenei into Eredar, rather than the other way around. The Eredar are the big bads, and you will not convince many Warcraft I - III + Vanilla purists otherwise. Therefore, retconned Draenei cannot exist on Turtle.
Given the plot threads the Turtle team have publicly stated that they accept as the proper canon and, more importantly, the "Turtle canon", they are never ever going to put TBC Draenei in, because it would go in direct opposition to their canon that Sargeras was a Titan who was corrupted by the evil Eredar, who have nothing at all to do with the Draenei.
When pressed on it, the writer responsible for this retcon even went so far as to say "whoops, I'd forgotten I wrote that, and completely changed the story". The biggest point of contention is the idea that it was Sargeras who was the original big bad who corrupted the Draenei into Eredar, rather than the other way around. The Eredar are the big bads, and you will not convince many Warcraft I - III + Vanilla purists otherwise. Therefore, retconned Draenei cannot exist on Turtle.
Given the plot threads the Turtle team have publicly stated that they accept as the proper canon and, more importantly, the "Turtle canon", they are never ever going to put TBC Draenei in, because it would go in direct opposition to their canon that Sargeras was a Titan who was corrupted by the evil Eredar, who have nothing at all to do with the Draenei.
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Bigspliffa22
- Posts: 20
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
Redmagejoe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:59 amhttps://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki ... ontroversy
When pressed on it, the writer responsible for this retcon even went so far as to say "whoops, I'd forgotten I wrote that, and completely changed the story". The biggest point of contention is the idea that it was Sargeras who was the original big bad who corrupted the Draenei into Eredar, rather than the other way around. The Eredar are the big bads, and you will not convince many Warcraft I - III + Vanilla purists otherwise. Therefore, retconned Draenei cannot exist on Turtle.
Given the plot threads the Turtle team have publicly stated that they accept as the proper canon and, more importantly, the "Turtle canon", they are never ever going to put TBC Draenei in, because it would go in direct opposition to their canon that Sargeras was a Titan who was corrupted by the evil Eredar, who have nothing at all to do with the Draenei.
Who's to say there weren't any rebellious Eredar who split off and found a new society elsewhere? Instead of retail's canon of Sargeras chasing them around the galaxy, make it so it was other Eredar chasing them. There's plenty of room to add on, even within turtle canon.
Last edited by Bigspliffa22 on Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
Even from WarCraft 1 - 3 there were retcons made, even subtl ones.
When looking at the outland maps in WC3 TFT and seeing Eredar Creeps, i can hardly believe that those were even remotely capable of corrupting Sargeras.
But yeah atm. i think the TBC-Draenei (at least their models) are too easily discarded by some. As mentioned: We barely have information about the draeneis origins, their society, etc. UP TO Vanilla WoW. So Turtle would be able to use their TBC-Model while writing a new background story added to the existing informations.
When looking at the outland maps in WC3 TFT and seeing Eredar Creeps, i can hardly believe that those were even remotely capable of corrupting Sargeras.
But yeah atm. i think the TBC-Draenei (at least their models) are too easily discarded by some. As mentioned: We barely have information about the draeneis origins, their society, etc. UP TO Vanilla WoW. So Turtle would be able to use their TBC-Model while writing a new background story added to the existing informations.
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Dracarusggotham
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Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
The Eredar were already corrupt sorcerers prior to Sargeras inducting them into the ranks of the Legion and those we now know as the Broken were originally Draenei.
"The Eredar, an insidious race of devilish sorcerers, used their warlock magics to enslave a number of worlds that they had invaded. The indigenous races of those worlds were mutated by the Eredar's chaotic powers and turned into demons themselves. Though Sargeras' nearly limitless powers were more than enough to defeat the vile Eredar, he was greatly troubled by the creatures' corruption and all-consuming evil. Unable to fathom such depravity and spite, the great Titan slipped into a brooding depression. Despite his growing unease, Sargeras sought to rid the universe of the warlocks for all time, by trapping them within a vacuous corner of the Twisting Nether."*
This was from something before TBC. IDK I guess something like the manual or a book before even WoW.
Yeah, the Eredar lore was stablished before TBC.
TBC broken a lot of the lore stablished before:
Draenei: The biggest retcon, they practically should not exist, since either they are Eredar or they are broken, no blue, muscular or sexy space goats. It had literally been established that the Eredar were responsible for the corruption of Sargeras and not the other way around, but I don't know what Metzen or Blizzard was thinking at that time, tremendous crack in the lore, my God.
Blood Elves: I read that really, REALLY, Kael'thas only named the people who left with him to help the Alliance and then left for Outland as Blood Elves, so canonically before TBC, the High Elves still existed, and in essence, they were a good part of the survivors of the destruction of Quel'thalas.
But then Blizzard came and for two eggs he made most of them Blood Elves and they were so twisted and desperate that they joined the Horde.
Here's a post with all the retcons in TBC:
https://gamerant.com/every-major-lore-r ... g-crusade/
"The Eredar, an insidious race of devilish sorcerers, used their warlock magics to enslave a number of worlds that they had invaded. The indigenous races of those worlds were mutated by the Eredar's chaotic powers and turned into demons themselves. Though Sargeras' nearly limitless powers were more than enough to defeat the vile Eredar, he was greatly troubled by the creatures' corruption and all-consuming evil. Unable to fathom such depravity and spite, the great Titan slipped into a brooding depression. Despite his growing unease, Sargeras sought to rid the universe of the warlocks for all time, by trapping them within a vacuous corner of the Twisting Nether."*
This was from something before TBC. IDK I guess something like the manual or a book before even WoW.
Yeah, the Eredar lore was stablished before TBC.
TBC broken a lot of the lore stablished before:
Draenei: The biggest retcon, they practically should not exist, since either they are Eredar or they are broken, no blue, muscular or sexy space goats. It had literally been established that the Eredar were responsible for the corruption of Sargeras and not the other way around, but I don't know what Metzen or Blizzard was thinking at that time, tremendous crack in the lore, my God.
Blood Elves: I read that really, REALLY, Kael'thas only named the people who left with him to help the Alliance and then left for Outland as Blood Elves, so canonically before TBC, the High Elves still existed, and in essence, they were a good part of the survivors of the destruction of Quel'thalas.
But then Blizzard came and for two eggs he made most of them Blood Elves and they were so twisted and desperate that they joined the Horde.
Here's a post with all the retcons in TBC:
https://gamerant.com/every-major-lore-r ... g-crusade/
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
I know this post is about dranei, but I want to point out having any "high elves" seems to contradict TFT. When Kael'thas meets Tyrande and Maiev, he says that the high elves have renamed themselves blood elves. Maiev asks about "high elven brethren" and not specifically about his troops, Implying renaming to Blood Elf was a people-wide move. So really, it should be more like Belfs have joined the alliance on turtle. 
Kael'thas: Sadly, I have only a few warriors left. The Scourge has pressed us
hard these last few months.
Maiev: Kael, where are your high elven brethren? Do they not fight the undead
as you do?
Kael'thas: The Scourge devoured our ancient homeland of Quel'Thalas. The once
proud bloodline of my people is nearly spent. The few of us that remain now
call ourselves blood elves, in homage to our murdered people.
Tyrande: I grieve for your people, Kael. But you must not allow rage and
despair to poison your heart. You may lead your people to a brighter future.
Kael'thas: Sadly, I have only a few warriors left. The Scourge has pressed us
hard these last few months.
Maiev: Kael, where are your high elven brethren? Do they not fight the undead
as you do?
Kael'thas: The Scourge devoured our ancient homeland of Quel'Thalas. The once
proud bloodline of my people is nearly spent. The few of us that remain now
call ourselves blood elves, in homage to our murdered people.
Tyrande: I grieve for your people, Kael. But you must not allow rage and
despair to poison your heart. You may lead your people to a brighter future.
Re: Draenei "Retcons"?
Please stay on the topic. Any Lore debates about high elves/blood elves should have an topic of its own.Perkasie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:20 pmI know this post is about dranei, but I want to point out having any "high elves" seems to contradict TFT. When Kael'thas meets Tyrande and Maiev, he says that the high elves have renamed themselves blood elves. Maiev asks about "high elven brethren" and not specifically about his troops, Implying renaming to Blood Elf was a people-wide move. So really, it should be more like Belfs have joined the alliance on turtle.
Kael'thas: Sadly, I have only a few warriors left. The Scourge has pressed us
hard these last few months.
Maiev: Kael, where are your high elven brethren? Do they not fight the undead
as you do?
Kael'thas: The Scourge devoured our ancient homeland of Quel'Thalas. The once
proud bloodline of my people is nearly spent. The few of us that remain now
call ourselves blood elves, in homage to our murdered people.
Tyrande: I grieve for your people, Kael. But you must not allow rage and
despair to poison your heart. You may lead your people to a brighter future.
But since the blood elves delved into demonic powers, some of the remaining High Elves neglected the name "Blood Elf". Besides: Not every remaining High Elf was with their people so not everyone was propably aware of this renaming.