Shamans : New talent trees dropped

[Rafale]

Elemental :


Enhancement :


Restoration :


The goal of those changes is :
- Helping the mana sustain of elemental
- Helping the scaling of enhancement (and its threat)
- Giving restoration a better end of tree

Welcoming your feedback

[Glipo]

I see this good taletce but only in perspective of 1 to 59 lvl. If wach it thru 60 lvl progression we still have problems 1st is that enha mostly focusing in melee crit items what means no spell hit no spell power so we gonna get another unscalable tool + lighting sheld cant crit so it can provide us +9 crit from elem spec

[Glipo]

If im not mistaken spell hit cap in boss fights is around 16% so u still need 6 and its alot due to u need melee hit to so the question is how u gonna do 20/31/0 if u gonna need that talent with hit from heal spec and that gonna cost u 8 talent point

[Soapbar]

Bloodlust and stormstrikes changes look very good.
Giving curse of elements does make sense for shamans.
My only concern is not the new shield’s talents but the fact once shamans learn Water shield they wont use any other shield.
Other than that these changes look good.

[Schlaechter]

sauce?

[Trickyduck87]

Will the water totems benefit for the whole duration of the empower water totem because in classic this is something I abused late game with hst. The coefficient is very low but you could pop zhc and use hst and it would have the bonus sp for the eilntire duration. Combine this with high +healing already and I'd see ticks of 100+

[Isvya]

Finally some good suggestions from someone who understands the game. Numbers can be tweaked anytime but i like all the concepts.

One more change i'd make is totemic mastery baseline at 40 by training and replace it with the current thunderhead but make it affect all 3 shields so that you can use earth and water shield on party members.

[Aavri]

Finally some good suggestions from someone who understands the game. Numbers can be tweaked anytime but i like all the concepts.

One more change i'd make is totemic mastery baseline at 40 by training and replace it with the current thunderhead but make it affect all 3 shields so that you can use earth and water shield on party members.

Yeah, I'll kinda miss thunderhead. Before Earthshield it was a fun talent to put it on targets.

That said, I don't think this will completely solve the main issues of enhancement's scaling. It does make us scale better... but we're still spread so thing among so many stats.

Maybe a talent somewhere that increases our melee hit by 20/40/50% of our spell hit as well. Or just a presicien (from paladin's) like talent somewhere in elemental or enhancement.

Or even a totem that increases hit chance.

[Jstansberry]

Love the enhancement changes, especially how you want to make shields useful in PvE. If they added something like Critical Syngery that''d be HUGE. Ele changes might be a bit overtuned, ele is already kinda cracked in pvp. Reverberation changes would also be amazing for enhancement, though.

The only change that feels weird is the new resto capstone talent. Likely would be more useful than mana tide but still seems like it'd not feel worthwhile going deep into resto to get it.

Would still like to see the Nature's Guidance hit talent moved out of resto and into one of the dps specs, though.

[Mac]

These are good changes. Really like Enhancement’s changes.

[Glipo]

These are good changes. Really like Enhancement’s changes.

Where they are good ? Do u even play this spec ? like for real this looks uber raw 1st enha already strugling coz of mana and here is 0 solution to this in intire spec that u gonna do more crits with shocks wont affect mana cost of all your totem and sheild and stormstrike what u gonna be need to reuse ower and ower again while trash killing and boss fights.
Another thing is that with this talence ppl will be forsed to go deep in elemental spec what makes new players suffer from not enoff hit raiting whats still sit in to restoration tree.
"Elemental Reaction" is a chanse to hit insteead of a ppm what makes u suffer with 2h and be fine with fasty weapons
Another thing enha have issuse with AOE, show me please where is any solution in this talent rework what gonna fix it?
1 fucking magma totem is around 650 mana and if u AOE u gonna use this in combo with fire nova totem what is 520 mana
and u need spam them and if u are good shaman u gonna do air totem twistin at the same time and u know what u gonna be OOM coz of only this and that cool +5% haste or criting shocks or 10% chanse to got damage from shields u use wont fix a thing.
I got feeling that u have no idea abot enha or u gonna eat whatever bad solution u see only to get somthing instead of nothing

[Mac]

These are good changes. Really like Enhancement’s changes.

Where they are good ? Do u even play this spec ? like for real this looks uber raw 1st enha already strugling coz of mana and here is 0 solution to this in intire spec that u gonna do more crits with shocks wont affect mana cost of all your totem and sheild and stormstrike what u gonna be need to reuse ower and ower again while trash killing and boss fights.
Another thing is that with this talence ppl will be forsed to go deep in elemental spec what makes new players suffer from not enoff hit raiting whats still sit in to restoration tree.
"Elemental Reaction" is a chanse to hit insteead of a ppm what makes u suffer with 2h and be fine with fasty weapons
Another thing enha have issuse with AOE, show me please where is any solution in this talent rework what gonna fix it?
1 fucking magma totem is around 650 mana and if u AOE u gonna use this in combo with fire nova totem what is 520 mana
and u need spam them and if u are good shaman u gonna do air totem twistin at the same time and u know what u gonna be OOM coz of only this and that cool +5% haste or criting shocks or 10% chanse to got damage from shields u use wont fix a thing.
I got feeling that u have no idea abot enha or u gonna eat whatever bad solution u see only to get somthing instead of nothing

k

[Glipo]

how to post screenshots here? i just wanna show a thing with some other thing to make ppl think

[Q408395216]

Is this official news or did netizens imagine it themselves？

[Shwind]

Is this tree available on game? Please note that Turtle talent web page does not have similar changes.

[Jc473]

No, they are not. This is just a community idea.

[Glipo]

is a list of enhas from retail classic i understand that turtle have more chousus in itamization but lets take that ones coz i have no idea where is turttle logs siting. Lets take first one most gearead one and lets take boss with aoe chek Anub'Rekhan.
shaman gear is more then avg..

now lets wach a logs

77.29% is a melee and 7.91% is a storstrike what lead us to 85.2% of melee damage
and lets see what how done a earth shock and aoe abilitys and we see thigs are pretty bad here...
we wont go to analys aoe coz we havent yet any solution but my point that needs somthing what makes us spam fire totems and give them scale from melee hit/crit and waepon damage or ap
lets wach instead of it shoks

ok avg damage on boss is a 555 xD
now lets see that boss fight was 1 min 26 sec is it alot for shok spam? if we gonna spam it ever 5 sec we gonna have somthing around 17 shocks i belive
so lets imagine that all this 17 shoks wont resist they all get busted by 20% of stormstrice and curse of elemetals + and let them be under a Elemental fury+ they all gonna be critical what is already absurd but let them be
so 555*1.2*1.1*2=1465
1465*17=24908 damage its somthing around 293 dps i belive but here may happend delay and other issuses but let it be 300 dps OK
And now lets find some top war from same wowlogs and compre to enha

and what we have here ? oh look we reach a nothing coz 1 cleave ability out dps us even with complitly unrealistic scenario
Link to logs
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/report ... 25&fight=4
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/report ... &source=23
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/r ... nhancement

[Rafale]

Enha shouldn't reach the same dps than fury warrior because enha is a support and brings much more than its dps.

[Glipo]

Enha shouldn't reach the same dps than fury warrior because enha is a support and brings much more than its dps.

1.First of all its lie even blizzard devoloper who designed enha spec sayd that its a DPS spec not an support one.
2.Second if u take it as support then please stop even touching this talents let spec die coz its finally ok that ppl dont want to be totem sult.

[Glipo]

honored brothers and sisters if u see a heretic arguing that enha is supports spec just ignore a heretic coz its a pointless waste of your personal time.
Sadly no one reads the forum so here is no way to start riot from here...

[Jstansberry]

Enha shouldn't reach the same dps than fury warrior because enha is a support and brings much more than its dps.

It doesn't need to be as good as a fury warrior, it just shouldn't be less than half the DPS of other DPS specs - which is what it is right now.

[Glipo]

Enha shouldn't reach the same dps than fury warrior because enha is a support and brings much more than its dps.

It doesn't need to be as good as a fury warrior, it just shouldn't be less than half the DPS of other DPS specs - which is what it is right now.

Fully agree. we have 0 active skill from spell book what scales from our gear progression and when u give them this fact and say that this must be fixed they just say YOU ARE SUPPORT CLASS

[Glipo]

also talent [Elemental Devastation] can be improved by taken credit from f totems crit if they crit + instead of 10 sec duration make an 5 stacks it will give more profit coz in some situation it may be wasted in to the nothing or hold only for few hits.

[Queenoona]

Kevin Jordan also says that in hindsight he would have increased tanking capabilities to add a couple extra Tank classes into the game. (Shaman being one of them)
The important thing to note in this interview is that to the original team had the primary concern of making sure the Class can get in the raid. (Shaman as a whole) and then they would look at the specs as secondary.

This meant that due to time constraints itemization happened for the already good spec (Resto) but not as much for Enhancement/Elemental. They also didn't get the design attention that they needed for the same reason.

Hopefully if the Turtle Team goes this route it means they can also pick up where Kevin left off and try to amplify Shaman to a proper tanking position as well as DPS in their 2 other specs. Similar to how Feral Druid functions.

Enhancement offers a lot of support to its group, but so does Warrior. (Sunder Armor, Battle Shout, Demo Shout, Disarm, Thunderclap)

[Glipo]

if wach on druid tank. Druids have a bear form if make an Earch elemental form for enha tank what will give more stamina, damage reduction and generate more thret, also can add some ability to aoe agro somithing like a earthquake or pulsing earch or thunder clap. Adding form wont increase a threat ability of usual dps enha and its gonna be easy to balance talence without making it too fat as dps or to burstable as tank.

[Trickyduck87]

Stop with bloodlust, it is not a fun talent. Enhance needs shamanistic rage (call it bloodlust if you must) as it's lvl 40 talent, this will fix their atrocious mana problems and give them a defensive cd which would help their survivability and tanking capabilities.

I've been playing shaman a very long time and this would fix the class more than you would imagine. No they don't need dual weild, that takes away from the vanilla shamanism themes. They don't even need lava lash to balance their dps capabilities, that just adds another attack button.

Shamanistic rage would tie enhance together perfectly with better sustainability and better tanking capabilities. Most people don't take bloodlust as it stands because it's not worth it. The lvl40 talent needs to be something that's important to the subclass and exciting to pursue.

Paladins are strong and this is good, they are alliance only, that makes them special and so they should be strong but so should shamans.

[Glipo]

Stop with bloodlust, it is not a fun talent. Enhance needs shamanistic rage (call it bloodlust if you must) as it's lvl 40 talent, this will fix their atrocious mana problems and give them a defensive cd which would help their survivability and tanking capabilities.

I've been playing shaman a very long time and this would fix the class more than you would imagine. No they don't need dual weild, that takes away from the vanilla shamanism themes. They don't even need lava lash to balance their dps capabilities, that just adds another attack button.

Shamanistic rage would tie enhance together perfectly with better sustainability and better tanking capabilities. Most people don't take bloodlust as it stands because it's not worth it. The lvl40 talent needs to be something that's important to the subclass and exciting to pursue.

Paladins are strong and this is good, they are alliance only, that makes them special and so they should be strong but so should shamans.

Shamanic rage is cool but it needs some adaptation coz if u played TBC/WotLK and dual weild will pop your mana wery fast while 2h wont coz here some trobles imagine u have 15 sec buff and with dual weild it means u already use somthing like 2.6 weap speed what meens even without flurry buff and haste u gonna do somthing around 5 hits from both hands and its a 10 hits while with 2h u gonna do at the same 15 sec 3-4 hits whats is not enoff to regen your mana pool.
Second problem that its a defencive cooldown so it means u must use it in sticky situation so if u waste it u cant use it when u get oom coz it wonna be on cooldown.
My point is shamanic rage must have spreaded for 2 and one is passive what works all time and gain u mana and other is active is when u activate it reduse damage taken by 30%.

[Trickyduck87]

That's what's great about the idea of it, it's more that one option in one, will be times it's only used for mana regen and others as a defensive when already full mana. The mana regen for 2h would be fine and would make faster 2h weapons and 1h + shield look more appealing. Keep dual weild away from shamans.

[Blondboombox]

Shaman tanking feels really good on TWoW, the totem gcd changes makes setting up much faster, and I'm decently durable for normal sized pulls. The addition of shamanistic rage would be hugely welcomed, as the two biggest problems IMO are mana and durability. Shaman tanks (when they have mana) are threat masters. The problems happen when someone ass pulls or a patrol shows up, shamans tanks don't have an 'oh shit' button. I play Tauren and warstomp and a grenade can substitute. Or if it's a huge pull kiting with earthbind can work but, it's more mana intensive bc Lighting shield isn't proccing and I'm not hitting anything with Rockbiter. Which means any and all threat is coming from earth shock or if I have time, chain lightning.

[Glipo]

Shaman tanking feels really good on TWoW, the totem gcd changes makes setting up much faster, and I'm decently durable for normal sized pulls. The addition of shamanistic rage would be hugely welcomed, as the two biggest problems IMO are mana and durability. Shaman tanks (when they have mana) are threat masters. The problems happen when someone ass pulls or a patrol shows up, shamans tanks don't have an 'oh shit' button. I play Tauren and warstomp and a grenade can substitute. Or if it's a huge pull kiting with earthbind can work but, it's more mana intensive bc Lighting shield isn't proccing and I'm not hitting anything with Rockbiter. Which means any and all threat is coming from earth shock or if I have time, chain lightning.

cool to see someone tanking as enha can u please tell more about durability problem, as i understand its more about a defoult low hp bar what shaman have? if u have some logs or video will be good to wach

[Blondboombox]

Sorry no logs or vids.
Stats wise Shaman tanks do alright, they can reach decent levels of stamina, coupled with high dodge and a good shield just little wotse than bears just in stats.
Turtle wows coding is a bit more friendly towards grounding totem which helps with some specific boss fights, and the armor buffs in their talents helps some.
The durability problem is if your healer can't heal you, generally you are SOL. If you pull too much or a boss is dealing high burst damage there isn't a button to push that will help. Stacking dodge and stamina is the best shamans can do, but without any defensivea and the worst armor value of all the tanks your health bar can be spikey. That's the RNG, sometimes it's dodge, dodge, block, parry. And other times you get crit three times in a row.
There are obviously strategies for most things, but that requires planning and setup. And you don't always get the ideal setup, it can get messy and you're not going to be able to pull kite everything.
But generally, shaman tanks are so fun, especially in dungeons because doing a good pull feels so nice.
Set the appropriate totems and cast Lightning shield
Cast LB on the max range target, cast chain lightning on a closer target, and cast earth shock on another target if you procc'd clear casting. Then tab auto target till they die, and refresh lightning shield if the DPS is pumping.
There is also casting multiple rank 1 LB to proc clear casting before the mobs hit you.

[Glipo]

so tankhance need save buttons and way to fix crit mitigation for more durability
what if make a talent whats gonna give def raiting for each 100-200 armour i know sounds wierd but this may give us crit mitigation and if shamanic rage gonna be added this gonna solve durability problem

[Blondboombox]

I think TWoW has made a lot more shaman tank gearing, I think getting the required defense rating is doable on TWoW. I would love shamanistic rage or anything similar.

[Gdawg45]

What about making shaman be more helpful with group damage mitigation? See explanation below:

Currently, Spirit Link works by displacing damage done to a target by sharing 15% of the damage taken by the target with party members next to the target. Currently, this damage type is classified as spell damage. Why not change that classification of damage from spell to physical.

What will this do? It will allow the shaman, whether it be healer/melee/caster, to use different totems to increase the damage mitigation effects for the grouped members.
The shaman could use stoneskin totem to reduce the shared physical damage taken by the party members. Using stoneskin instead of healing stream would allow the shaman to use the water totem for poison/disease dispels or fire resist totem. If the group is more caster heavy or if the fight is longer and more mana is needed then mana spring can be used as an additional option.

Any thoughts?

[Charanko]

Some very good ideas