Mindflay x2

[Slashignore]

Spriests aoe is very bad. we gotta dot everything up and then we are oom.
What about if our Mindflay either chained or have two beams.
It will increase our dps on multiple targts but most of the times but not on bossfights! so we wont be overpowered at all.

[Geojak]

Yay double Mind flay in pvp. Let's go

[Slashignore]

would be nice too tbh, we are VERY single target (except 1 dot) and its not even overpowred to give us two mindflays.

disable in arena if nessesary.

[Quidoba]

If you have your brainwashing device you can switch specs to 0/11/40 spec that gets holy nova and doesn't sacrifice any shadow damage, only a little mana regen. Then pick yourself up a blade of eternal darkness (Mara princess is easy to solo as a shadow priest) and find the right downrank of holy nova that allows your mana to last through the fight you are engaging in. Holy nova is easily one of the best AOEs in the game as it doesn't cause any threat and can be spammed with impunity immediately on pull.

Smite spec is also very viable on TWOW (although very gear dependent). As a smite priest you can dish out very effective holy nova damage on aoe pulls in dungeons and raids. Just be prepared for full drinks, and/or mana consumables.

This isn't retail wow where everyone gets the same capabilities (homogenization... bleh). But if you're creative you can make do with the tools you have (or just think about rerolling an alt).

[Slashignore]

Quidoba what a poop specc you suggested.

but as you say "This isn't retail wow where everyone gets the same capabilities " yet we buff classes like elemental shaman, paladin... "

[Jstansberry]

Quidoba what a poop specc you suggested.

but as you say "This isn't retail wow where everyone gets the same capabilities " yet we buff classes like elemental shaman, paladin... "

How did they buff elemental shamans? I thought the only change was making the clearcasting proc off of crits and give 40% cost reduction instead of 100%.

[Slashignore]

Quidoba what a poop specc you suggested.

but as you say "This isn't retail wow where everyone gets the same capabilities " yet we buff classes like elemental shaman, paladin... "

How did they buff elemental shamans? I thought the only change was making the clearcasting proc off of crits and give 40% cost reduction instead of 100%.

here it is each crit and for two next spells. .old was 10% for a 100% clearcast
clearly a buff

[Jstansberry]

here it is each crit and for two next spells. .old was 10% for a 100% clearcast
clearly a buff

Just seems like you're being a bit dramatic if you think buffing 1 talent is comparable to the homogenization of WotLK + expansions

Shadow has been given an incredible amount of changes to make it function in PVE and you think even more is appropriate, but one buffed talent for elemental is too much? Double Mind Flay would be a huge change. There are some specs that have no real AoE damage options at all, this would be like suggesting shaman Windfury procs to cleave or cat druid TIger's Fury to give a sweeping strikes effect.

[Ashstache]

Didn't Wrath have some addition to Mind Flay that made it an aoe?

[Slashignore]

here it is each crit and for two next spells. .old was 10% for a 100% clearcast
clearly a buff

Just seems like you're being a bit dramatic if you think buffing 1 talent is comparable to the homogenization of WotLK + expansions

Shadow has been given an incredible amount of changes to make it function in PVE and you think even more is appropriate, but one buffed talent for elemental is too much? Double Mind Flay would be a huge change. There are some specs that have no real AoE damage options at all, this would be like suggesting shaman Windfury procs to cleave or cat druid TIger's Fury to give a sweeping strikes effect.

im a dramaqueen my deer. But when doing dungeons stuff die pretty fast and having mindflay and mindblast as your only damage makes you lack behind alot on damagemeters.
Again my suggestion wont affect bosses mostly because they are always alone - mostly just trash!

[Delsin]

Didn't Wrath have some addition to Mind Flay that made it an aoe?

I think you're referring to Mind Sear https://wotlk.evowow.com/?spell=48045 . I think that a Mind Sear-like spell, perhaps also damaging the main target, could be beneficial for Shadow Priest if the damage could be balanced with other casters. Most spriests on twow I've seen are generally pretty happy with their class, but lament the lack of aoe for pve. I don't think giving them an aoe would break them in pvp (even moreso) since I don't think its damage that's their main strength. Its the fear, dot, shield, self sustain, more fear, and the pocket tank they always seem to have.

[Ashstache]

Didn't Wrath have some addition to Mind Flay that made it an aoe?

I think you're referring to Mind Sear https://wotlk.evowow.com/?spell=48045 . I think that a Mind Sear-like spell, perhaps also damaging the main target, could be beneficial for Shadow Priest if the damage could be balanced with other casters. Most spriests on twow I've seen are generally pretty happy with their class, but lament the lack of aoe for pve. I don't think giving them an aoe would break them in pvp (even moreso) since I don't think its damage that's their main strength. Its the fear, dot, shield, self sustain, more fear, and the pocket tank they always seem to have.

Right, right. Do you think that would be a good avenue, or maybe a method to spread dots?

[Delsin]

Didn't Wrath have some addition to Mind Flay that made it an aoe?

I think you're referring to Mind Sear https://wotlk.evowow.com/?spell=48045 . I think that a Mind Sear-like spell, perhaps also damaging the main target, could be beneficial for Shadow Priest if the damage could be balanced with other casters. Most spriests on twow I've seen are generally pretty happy with their class, but lament the lack of aoe for pve. I don't think giving them an aoe would break them in pvp (even moreso) since I don't think its damage that's their main strength. Its the fear, dot, shield, self sustain, more fear, and the pocket tank they always seem to have.

Right, right. Do you think that would be a good avenue, or maybe a method to spread dots?

I am in favor of ways for dot heavy specs/classes, hello affliction warlocks, to be able to spread their core dots more easily. Spending 6-30 cooldowns dotting up targets while some frost mage yoho CoCs, blizzards, then ice lance spams to top the dps charts does make me jealous. While leveling, Rain of Fire is nice but expensive and doesn't really fully come online until late 40s when you have enough points in Destruction to make it more efficient/powerful.

For a default 'Mind Sear' I think a directed aoe would probably be the best way, keep the base spell a simple aoe for newer players and whatnot. Then add/change a talent to give it the ability to spread SWP. Perhaps a new talent that costs 2 points that does it. Its implementation depends on what is possible in the engine's backend as much as it is on balance and gamefeel/fun. Note that neither implementation below will increase the duration/refresh SWPs duration on the main target of the spell.

Complex implementation: Migraine (2) - "When your Mind Sear deals damage and the main target is affected by your Shadow Word: Pain spell, all other targets affected by Mind Sear are inflicted with Shadow Word: Pain with a duration of 3 seconds. If the targets are already inflicted with Shadow Word: Pain then additional 3 seconds are added to Shadow Word: Pain's duration up to your Shadow Word: Pain's maximum duration. If the additional duration would increase the duration past the maximum duration, the duration is refreshed and the target takes 16/33% of Shadow Word: Pain's tick. Improved Shadow Word: Pain increases this damage to 25/50%." This means that after a single Mind Sear the other targets would have SWP duration at 11 seconds due to the 1 second per tick of the Mind Sear. The reason for it being an incremental duration increase is to prevent crazy damage burst or the player doing a single damage tick then cancelling the spell for a cheap/fast dot spread. The spriest will have to Mind Sear at least twice to get the duration high enough to proc the bonus damage on duration overflow. The Imp SWP bonus is because the talent gives 3/6 second greater duration and if we did not account for it then players would ignore that talent to get the earlier 33% damage tick procs. This is a bit of a wordy talent, but spriests already have things like Vampiric Touch and Shadow Weaving so they are used to reading.

Engine limited/Computationally simple implementation: Migraine (2) - "Casting Mind Sear for its full duration on a target inflicted with your Shadow Word: Pain has a 50/100% chance to cause a mental shockwave, inflicting other targets in its radius with Shadow Word: Pain. If the targets are already afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain they take damage equal to 3 seconds of Shadow Word: Pain's damage." This implementation is likely the easiest to add, but could be bursty and lead to spriests pulling threat early. It does not refresh SWP on targets that already have it so they are taking damage at 3 second intervals plus the 5 second interval at the end of Mind Sear. (Not including player/server lag etc.)

There's probably dozens of other ways to implement it, but these are a good starting point. Extra input by spriest mains is appreciated.

[Slashignore]

tbh i dont think needing 1-2 extra points for this to work should be nessesary.
remember it will only be really effective in groups of mobs (trash) and on bosses it wont really make a difference. And thats my entire point of the post. Give us a bit more aoe =) split or a chain mindflay
OR as you say mind sear. However i would prefer just the mindflay to do it instead of yet another spell

[Drubarrymooer]

While I'm not in favor of chaining MF, I would like some sort of limited AOE/multi target cast. The reason I say limited is because I'm 100% against the homogenization of classes. It would just be nice to not be rock bottom on trash DPS.

The holy nova spec is alright on paper but in practice its not my favorite. I love the lore and RP surrounding spriests and I would love to keep the damage just shadow. Something that might even damage the caster in return a la hell fire would be neat.

The "migraine" ability listed above sounds neat as well. However I feel like it would be a pain to manage on a lot of social/chainable packs.... Looking at you P1 KT fight. ;p I think if the ability is called migraine, it should something like mind blast but it chains to 2/3/4 targets reducing in damage by 50/25/15% and have it be a 2 or 3 point talent and just replace imp fade (most useless aggro drop, and maybe even talent, in the game). Migraine, similar to mind blast should also caused increased threat. Heck, maybe even have it go up in threat if you spec into it.

Just spit balling another; "Shadow Tendrils": 5 second channel, call forth the shadow spirits from beyond to grasp at the feet of your enemies which try to drag them into the spirit realm. Does X-amount of damage (scaling/damage to be determined by devs. I'm not great at math. :p ).

Not at all related but "Shadow Resurrection", call the spirit back to a player. Player is resurrected but doesn't come fully back from the shadow realm. Resurrected player appears translucent. Effect persists until death and resurrected by a holy priest/paladin. .... Basically whatever keeps me in shadow form. and that reminds me.... Move cleanse disease to the discipline tree.

[Stasyalyova]

Mind Flay should be reworked i think. Maybe give it boost up health&mana regen to group as it full spell? Right now It lasts 3sec, Can Not Crit, having very low cast range and has only 45% coefficient from all spell power when usually 3.5sec cast have 100%. Also, calculating channels as a DoT wasn't exactly right.

Because of it trinket from pre-last boss(Sapphiron) in Naxx have less benefit in dps than trinket of falling star (aq40) for shadow priest. It's strange that you need 3-4 living 18sec targets for dots and cast every second for get advantage of Sapphiron trinket over Fallen Star. Plus mostly all mobs in raids have too high shadow resistance only.

Mind Flay have 50% of slow movement on target, but can be dispelled + i doubt it will be more useful than just 75% coefficient of SpellPower instead of 45% as it now, but only for mana+health Regen. Usually all combat mobs and even pvp players have too high mobility/spells for speed up or just dispels. If we make another coefficient for health&mana from Mind Flay, it solve fast permanent oom of shadow priest and make trinket from naxx more viable. Without any + more damage.

Shadow priests useful in raids as boosters: mana battery for heal group and passive healers - it was designed as you can see in Atiesh for priest (the only legendary weapon in the game for priest, make you lose 10SP(End of Dreams/Midnight Haze+Tome of Shadow Force) for have aura +62healing to group) while in combat we haven't good mana regen at all. In packs of mobs EVERY shadow priest need put on everyone Vampiric Embrace that has 10sec CD and can be easy resisted. Very inconvenient. And improved Mind Flay could be change it

[Grizb37]

Maybe give them a shadow nova, but as something unique make it damage EVERYONE. this would make it dangerous to use but give shadow priest some Aoe. So basically it would be the opposite of Holy nova. The party damage shouldn't be too much maybe like 100 dmg at 60.
Kinda like Hellfire... Idea is to make a skill that's not busted in PvP for shadow as their already strong there.

[Akos1896]

My take is changing mind flay that all mobs within 10 yard of the target while having shadow word pain on receive 30% of mindflay's channeled damage.
It can motivate shadow priests to work together since anyone's swp triggers this effect. Would be unique.

[Zvyrhol]

Every specialization has own weaknesses. Shadow's is that they can't do AOE damage. Does it mean that Priest can't deal AOE damage? No. Just reroll Smite. Holy Nova is one of the most powerful AOE spells in the game and scales even better in Turtle WoW. Priest's AOE is unique thing to Holy tree and shouldn't be given to Shadow. Besides Shadow is powerful enough in raiding now. They aren't top dps but it's not their role. Not only they deal decent damage but also restore group's resources. They rock in Naxx against Thaddius or Sapphiron.

[Stasyalyova]

Rescale of mana gains wouldn't make it worst anyway, it need rescaling.

[Akos1896]

Every specialization has own weaknesses. Shadow's is that they can't do AOE damage. Does it mean that Priest can't deal AOE damage? No. Just reroll Smite. Holy Nova is one of the most powerful AOE spells in the game and scales even better in Turtle WoW. Priest's AOE is unique thing to Holy tree and shouldn't be given to Shadow. Besides Shadow is powerful enough in raiding now. They aren't top dps but it's not their role. Not only they deal decent damage but also restore group's resources. They rock in Naxx against Thaddius or Sapphiron.

I'd have a question regarding that. Not disagreeing with you, I just can't see the shpriest in TWOW utility picture.
They boost warlocks like in Vanilla. They also recharge some mana to the caster party but they do it much less effectively than an arcane mage. They refill party HP but my problem here is that it's limited to party.
I def agree that 1 spriest can help to make warlocks go brr but I don't see the value in their current mana regen and health regen utility because mana regen is subpar to arcane mage and health regen is only party-wide in a caster group. 1-2 resto shamans usually take care of the wide-healing of the caster parties.

For AoE an idea I was thinking about is a talent which allows shadow word pain to spread at every tick in a very limited radius. Let's say each tick gives 20% chance that another enemy, currently without shadow word pain would receive it in a 5y radius (pain wouldn't reset, new target would only receive the remaining amount of it). Would give a unique but unreliable AoE-like effect to spriests and I think it wouldn't break anything in PVP. Disspelling and staying a bit far from the target solved the problem.

[Calli]

Chain mindflay please, shadowpriest is very weak in all aspects. Thank you.

[Bigsmerf]

Chain mindflay please, shadowpriest is very weak in all aspects. Thank you.

Hey. Pass the peace pipe.

[Zvyrhol]

They also recharge some mana to the caster party but they do it much less effectively than an arcane mage. They refill party HP but my problem here is that it's limited to party.
I def agree that 1 spriest can help to make warlocks go brr but I don't see the value in their current mana regen and health regen utility because mana regen is subpar to arcane mage and health regen is only party-wide in a caster group. 1-2 resto shamans usually take care of the wide-healing of the caster parties.

Is Arcane's mana regeneration as powerful as you described? I haven't played this spec though I'm surprised to hear something like that when only one Mind Blast (supposing I have good gear) can restore 50 mana and 500 hp to the whole party. I don't know how much mana can Arcane Mage restore but I doubt it's more than Shadow. There are some raiding fights when everyone is taking damage, in these moments Shadow Priest rocks because their dps-healing works instantly. And also if you would like to broaden the Shadow Priest's utility to whole raid instead of group, you will break the game. Imagine if you had 5 Spriests in the raid that heal everyone, raid would be unkillable and with infinite mana. Besides, the raid-wide utility was introduced in WotLK. In Vanilla and TBC most buffs were party-wide.

For AoE an idea I was thinking about is a talent which allows shadow word pain to spread at every tick in a very limited radius. Let's say each tick gives 20% chance that another enemy, currently without shadow word pain would receive it in a 5y radius (pain wouldn't reset, new target would only receive the remaining amount of it). Would give a unique but unreliable AoE-like effect to spriests and I think it wouldn't break anything in PVP. Disspelling and staying a bit far from the target solved the problem.

Do you know how strong SW:P is right now? I'm close to BiS gear and generally my one SW:P deals 2400 damage which is 300 a tick. In Vanilla you can stack mobs easily. Even if you allow it to spread for such short radius, you will make Spriest top tier dps which already is strong spec. I recommend starting your own private server, add the changes you propose and see how overpowered it would be.

[Drubarrymooer]

I mean, I always wanted shadow AOE back in the day and it took till WOTLK to get it. I wouldn't mind a mind sear or shadow explosion or shadow nova....anything other than tab swp tab swp tab swp. lol

[Stasyalyova]

You will go OOM if you make Mind Blast by CD, 2 Mind Flays and SW:P (every 18sec) (i even not counting Shields on people and Dispels) in less 2min (after about 50sec with 6k mana pool and 800 spell power you will have ≈ 1450 mana).

If you have more than 1 target: you put SW:P that costs ≈400 mana for 80 mana total (only if targets will be alive all 18sec) and you go OOM even less than a minute.

One Mana Potion gives you ≈17sec to cast, while you get 300 mana from it (one Mind Flay ≈ 42 mana for 6 sec to all in line of sight and 30(36) yards group members)

So yes, we are very mana effective to others..
... but we OOM in 2min if cast any else spells, except Mind Flay (14 mana x3 ticks ≈ 42 mana total for 3 sec cast).