New Races - Blood Elves & Ogres

[Mac]

I mean, how do you even explain a playable Worgen without the Cataclysm sheningans.

The villagers of Pyrewood Village are friendly with the Alliance. So the playable character would be a Gilnean like that except more in control of their curse.

[Bellybutton]

+1 for Ogres to Horde.
I feel like Blood Elves are redundant and Turtle's essentially written Blood Elves out as a future playable race, Blood Elves are going to be enemies whenever we get Outland content.

Now, I genuinely think Alliance should get Draenei. Not TBC Draenei, TBC Draenei are a massive retcon and don't fit Turtle's WC3/Vanilla-based lore. Turtle Draenei should be more akin to the Draenei we know of from established lore that existed before TBC. No high tech sci-fi rubbish.

The issue is, the ugly Draenei models that exist in the Swamp of Sorrows are really not appealing at all as a playable MMO race. They're also supposed to be highly deformed Draenei and not indicative of the race in general.
But I also think the TBC space goat models do not fit the Draenei either.

I think playable Turtle Draenei should look something like this. This would be a "pure" Draenei, rather than the degenerated Draenei we see in the Swamp of Sorrows.

[Mac]

+1 for Ogres to Horde.
I feel like Blood Elves are redundant and Turtle's essentially written Blood Elves out as a future playable race, Blood Elves are going to be enemies whenever we get Outland content.

Now, I genuinely think Alliance should get Draenei. Not TBC Draenei, TBC Draenei are a massive retcon and don't fit Turtle's WC3/Vanilla-based lore. Turtle Draenei should be more akin to the Draenei we know of from established lore that existed before TBC. No high tech sci-fi rubbish.

The issue is, the ugly Draenei models that exist in the Swamp of Sorrows are really not appealing at all as a playable MMO race. They're also supposed to be highly deformed Draenei and not indicative of the race in general.
But I also think the TBC space goat models do not fit the Draenei either.

I think playable Turtle Draenei should look something like this. This would be a "pure" Draenei, rather than the degenerated Draenei we see in the Swamp of Sorrows.

That model is a fair compromise.

[Markuis]

+1 for Ogres to Horde.
I feel like Blood Elves are redundant and Turtle's essentially written Blood Elves out as a future playable race, Blood Elves are going to be enemies whenever we get Outland content.

Now, I genuinely think Alliance should get Draenei. Not TBC Draenei, TBC Draenei are a massive retcon and don't fit Turtle's WC3/Vanilla-based lore. Turtle Draenei should be more akin to the Draenei we know of from established lore that existed before TBC. No high tech sci-fi rubbish.

The issue is, the ugly Draenei models that exist in the Swamp of Sorrows are really not appealing at all as a playable MMO race. They're also supposed to be highly deformed Draenei and not indicative of the race in general.
But I also think the TBC space goat models do not fit the Draenei either.

I think playable Turtle Draenei should look something like this. This would be a "pure" Draenei, rather than the degenerated Draenei we see in the Swamp of Sorrows.

Just like forest trolls are skins present in the character creator and in the skin shop, the ugly draenei model could be available just like the not-so-ugly model. I'd choose the ugly one, of course!

[Gladeshadow]

I mean, how do you even explain a playable Worgen without the Cataclysm sheningans.

The villagers of Pyrewood Village are friendly with the Alliance. So the playable character would be a Gilnean like that except more in control of their curse.

Worgen stopped being cool and gothic horrors when cataclysm turned them into furries with clown armor. The furbolg suggestion makes much more sense given their connection with the night elves (Timbermaw remaining neutral of course).

Ogres would be cool though. Even if the horde got 1 more playable race than Alliance, it would likely remain the less played faction and therefore help balance things. And it remains that Forsaken never should have been written into the Horde by Blizzard to begin with, so adding a race that isn’t the antithesis of the faction would be nice.

As far as animations go, the ogres already have all the standard animations. The model we usually see in game, not the busted alpha model that can be what the character turns into if using the ogre illusion. The one rewarded for slow & steady at level 30.

Work on adding armor models could require a lot of effort for what would likely be a rarely played race. Rather than investing energy in making armor models, it might be wiser to make a race first and not even have the armor models - we already see this for people who play using illusion models. And rather than putting effort into making a new starting zone, I’d probably just have them start in Mulgore with the tauren. Same thing I’d probably do with the furbolg if they were in the alliance.

[Mac]

Worgen stopped being cool and gothic horrors when cataclysm turned them into furries with clown armor.

I didn't play the worgen expansion (barely played TBC and only tried WotLK beta) but I've seen pictures and I agree with this, putting top hats and silly suits on them was just no. In my head, if you're going to do worgen as a form, just have them be unarmored like how bear and cat form are. I have the worgen illusion on one character and I like that it's unarmored. In fact, I'd kind of like to be able to make my weapons disappear as well so I could just be clawing guys. I don't know, maybe let shoulderpads be visible if you really want to give them a cosmetic option.

The furbolg suggestion makes much more sense given their connection with the night elves (Timbermaw remaining neutral of course).

It worked with goblins leaving the neutral goblins in game neutral while having a non-neutral goblin faction.

Ogres would be cool though. Even if the horde got 1 more playable race than Alliance, it would likely remain the less played faction and therefore help balance things. And it remains that Forsaken never should have been written into the Horde by Blizzard to begin with, so adding a race that isn’t the antithesis of the faction would be nice.

As far as animations go, the ogres already have all the standard animations. The model we usually see in game, not the busted alpha model that can be what the character turns into if using the ogre illusion. The one rewarded for slow & steady at level 30.

Work on adding armor models could require a lot of effort for what would likely be a rarely played race. Rather than investing energy in making armor models, it might be wiser to make a race first and not even have the armor models - we already see this for people who play using illusion models. And rather than putting effort into making a new starting zone, I’d probably just have them start in Mulgore with the tauren. Same thing I’d probably do with the furbolg if they were in the alliance.

I think that's a practical approach. I mean you look at a lot of the ogres (and furbolg) in the game, and they aren't wearing a whole lot of armor. I think the thing players should try to keep in mind with Turtle WoW is that this is a fan project. Yeah, goblins weren't 100% ready to go when they were released, but at least they were released, and at least they got worked on later down the line. And yeah, Furbolg could easily use the night elf starter zone. Not like it's overpopulated. Not like they won't wind up just going to Stormwind anyway.

[Karrados]

"Goblins weren't 100% ready to go then they were released" Is probably the understatement of the year.

They missed basic animations, they missed armor pieces, they had 2 or 3 faces at best which all looked the same with your choice being beard, no beard, more beard but it all was the same face.

One of the leading reasons why they are the least played race is because they were not finished. High Elves? Aside from a few emotes and maybe a sitting animation on the chair they were almost done. Not only that but they gave them one custom hairstyle to go.

If Horde gets yet another race that is not finished while the Alliance would get one that fully works for the most part then you will just see another case of "Most played vs Least played" in the graph.

[Mac]

You could have flipped the situation around, had high elves be completely incomplete while goblins were completely complete, and players would have still gone with high elves over goblins because high elves are prettier. Only way players are choosing goblins over high elves is if high elves used their original vanilla models.

[Galendor]

Worgen stopped being cool and gothic horrors when cataclysm turned them into furries with clown armor.

I didn't play the worgen expansion (barely played TBC and only tried WotLK beta) but I've seen pictures and I agree with this, putting top hats and silly suits on them was just no. In my head, if you're going to do worgen as a form, just have them be unarmored like how bear and cat form are. I have the worgen illusion on one character and I like that it's unarmored. In fact, I'd kind of like to be able to make my weapons disappear as well so I could just be clawing guys. I don't know, maybe let shoulderpads be visible if you really want to give them a cosmetic option.

Even in Vanilla lore there are two types of worgens: those who were summoned from another dimention and those who were cursed (by Arugal or other worgens). Among the last ones there are a group of people whose worgen state is, basically, a classic werewolf fantasy: you are a human and you can transform into a monstrosity at nights. I'm talking about villagers of the Pyrewood, of course. From this PoV Cataclysm didn't bring many new things to worgens except Victorian vibes and the straight link between these creatures and night elves.

What I'm trying to say is that even without Catalysm's events there is a place for playable worgens with armor and stuff.

[Zulnam]

I like that idea a lot but the BE silence might be too strong in pvp. It was pretty strong back in TBC.

Blood elves feels a bit cheap too. Seeing as they are literally the High Elves we have now but with green eyes. But I guess the alternative is the TBC-style Draenei...


I'd love to roleplay an ogre!

[Kazgrim]

[Kazgrim]

[Kazgrim]

"Goblins weren't 100% ready to go then they were released" Is probably the understatement of the year.

They missed basic animations, they missed armor pieces, they had 2 or 3 faces at best which all looked the same with your choice being beard, no beard, more beard but it all was the same face.

One of the leading reasons why they are the least played race is because they were not finished. High Elves? Aside from a few emotes and maybe a sitting animation on the chair they were almost done. Not only that but they gave them one custom hairstyle to go.

If Horde gets yet another race that is not finished while the Alliance would get one that fully works for the most part then you will just see another case of "Most played vs Least played" in the graph.

Not to mention high elves are probably the #1 most simped for race in wow by its playerbase.

[Jambiya]

Also that worgen looks sick, damn.

[Mac]

Awesome work, Kazgrim.

[Elkepwn]

Kazgrim 4tw!

The starting area for the worgen is clearly Gilneas. I was doing some thinking about the ogre starting area last night and noticed that there is a lot of unused space south of Thousand Needles.



A small quest series: a warring ogre tribe breaks up in a war and you have to flee in order not to die. Luckily, there is a wyvern nest right there and some ogres can escape to mulgore, where they are skeptically but helpfully taken in by the tauren

[Drummbass]

Give me ogre as a playable race and i'll switch ( yes, im aware you can buy a costume and transform but it's not the same).

[Kazgrim]

Something to think about, but it's possible to easily expand the character selection screen to include clickable arrows that act as pages for more space.

[Kazgrim]

Better resolution but not a gif

[Whalemilk]

Damn kazgrim that looks sick. That would be so awesome.

[Pauloricardo]

Adding Blood Elves as a playable race wouldn't make a lot of sense to me because of the way lore evolved with the High Elves. Blood Elves could be added as enemies.

The Ogres is something I'd like to see happen though. I think they could have an option to have 2 heads, in which case the 'thinking is hard' could be replaced with 'magical affinity'; increasing intelligence by 5% but also increasing casting time by 20%.

Blizzard was planning to add Ogres in vanilla but supposedly couldn't figure out how should be the female ones, I don't think it should be an obstacle; make them only male, and add quests indicating that the brutes have the females opressed and don't allow them to be any of the classes.

The gear adapted to their model would be a big task, unfortunately I don't see them being added anytime soon, but they're definitely the number 1 candidate for a new Horde race.

That reminds me, according to the lore, Night Elves have only male druids and only female priestesses.

On the side note, apart from Ogres, they planned at one point to also add Goblins and Nagas in vanilla.
So Goblins being added was a good idea.

I like the Nagas, they weren't added because they don't have feet and legs, so there would be a gear imbalance. But in my opinion there could be a solution to that; they could have a Naga-only witchcraft ability that could make what they'd be wear on their lower body, to assume the qualities of the equipment they can't wear (foot and legs gear) as long as they meet the requirements to wear it (their level, their class restricted gear type like plate mail etc) and they have the item in the inventory. If transmog is possible it doesn't sound too far fetched. But I don't see the Alliance accepting the Naga if they rejected the Forsaken. So at best they could become yet another strategic ally of the Horde, likely won't happen because Ogres make much more sense to join the Horde.
I'm not sure what race could be then added to the Alliance, my number one choice would be the Vrykul, if Northrend was introduced as horizontal content.

Maybe Furbolgs?They could start alongside with Night Elf and they were in Warcraft 3. I like them a lot

[Zergest]

I really want Ogres for the Horde to be a real thing, but it's probably will never happened, because of how much work will be needed for that to be done.

[Pauloricardo]

I really want Ogres for the Horde to be a real thing, but it's probably will never happened, because of how much work will be needed for that to be done.

Well, hope is the last to die....

[Pauloricardo]

I mean, how do you even explain a playable Worgen without the Cataclysm sheningans.

The villagers of Pyrewood Village are friendly with the Alliance. So the playable character would be a Gilnean like that except more in control of their curse.

Worgen stopped being cool and gothic horrors when cataclysm turned them into furries with clown armor. The furbolg suggestion makes much more sense given their connection with the night elves (Timbermaw remaining neutral of course).

Ogres would be cool though. Even if the horde got 1 more playable race than Alliance, it would likely remain the less played faction and therefore help balance things. And it remains that Forsaken never should have been written into the Horde by Blizzard to begin with, so adding a race that isn’t the antithesis of the faction would be nice.

As far as animations go, the ogres already have all the standard animations. The model we usually see in game, not the busted alpha model that can be what the character turns into if using the ogre illusion. The one rewarded for slow & steady at level 30.

Work on adding armor models could require a lot of effort for what would likely be a rarely played race. Rather than investing energy in making armor models, it might be wiser to make a race first and not even have the armor models - we already see this for people who play using illusion models. And rather than putting effort into making a new starting zone, I’d probably just have them start in Mulgore with the tauren. Same thing I’d probably do with the furbolg if they were in the alliance.

Agreed

[Elkepwn]

Oh yeah! Furbolgs would make so much sense, I love that!

[Flameroller]

I think the people assuming all alliance players want preferential treatment fail to realize there are many like myself would wouldn't care if ogres were added and nothing given to alliance. Nothing works for us and we certainly outnumber horde. Adding ogres is a fine idea. I might even make one. I made a troll shaman this week. Someone gave me 5g too! It's down to 3g at level 13 but hey, it was helpful.

[Pauloricardo]

I think the people assuming all alliance players want preferential treatment fail to realize there are many like myself would wouldn't care if ogres were added and nothing given to alliance. Nothing works for us and we certainly outnumber horde. Adding ogres is a fine idea. I might even make one. I made a troll shaman this week. Someone gave me 5g too! It's down to 3g at level 13 but hey, it was helpful.

Maybe add the ogres first and, after some time, add an Alliance race.It's fine for me.

[Mac]

You know, you could have Ogres share a starting area with Goblins. The Goblin starting area is all about working for Venture Company, only to eventually quit and join the Horde. Venture Company hires an awful lot of ogres in-game, so the goblin starting area could definitely also work for them with a few tweaks (like instead of joining the Horde through the Durotar Labor Union, maybe they get recruited by someone representing the Stonemaul Clan).

[Lasershadow]

I always thought the best starting zone for Ogres should've been Alterac Mountains. There's little to nothing to do there in a whole zone and lore wise Ogre players would start among the clan that follows warlord Mug'thol "Me serve pretty ghost now. Mug'thol's warriors serve too," from Warcraft 3 TFT "The Dark Lady". The questline would be brief like Helfs and follow into Tirisfal Glades.

[Pauloricardo]

I always thought the best starting zone for Ogres should've been Alterac Mountains. There's little to nothing to do there in a whole zone and lore wise Ogre players would start among the clan that follows warlord Mug'thol "Me serve pretty ghost now. Mug'thol's warriors serve too," from Warcraft 3 TFT "The Dark Lady". The questline would be brief like Helfs and follow into Tirisfal Glades.

Agreed.

[Mac]

I always thought the best starting zone for Ogres should've been Alterac Mountains. There's little to nothing to do there in a whole zone and lore wise Ogre players would start among the clan that follows warlord Mug'thol "Me serve pretty ghost now. Mug'thol's warriors serve too," from Warcraft 3 TFT "The Dark Lady". The questline would be brief like Helfs and follow into Tirisfal Glades.

That would be an interesting spot to start them.

Mug’thol and the Crushridge clan in vanilla WoW has broken free from Sylvanas’s control, and Horde have a quest to go assassinate him (The Crown of Will). I suppose the starting quests could take after his assassination, with a Horde-friendly ogre installed as leader. The other thing to keep in mind is the the Crushridge ogres are a splinter of the Stonemaul ogres (the Crushridge ones stayed in the Eastern Kingdoms while the Stonemaul ones went off to Kalimdor) and the Stonemaul are allied with the Horde. So perhaps, with the death of Mug’thol, the two clans reunite under a Stonemaul leadership, and who that is depends on if you’re talking before or after players help assassinate Mok’morokk. If after, you could also incorporate the Stonemaul clan retaking Stonemaul Village.

[Pauloricardo]

I always thought the best starting zone for Ogres should've been Alterac Mountains. There's little to nothing to do there in a whole zone and lore wise Ogre players would start among the clan that follows warlord Mug'thol "Me serve pretty ghost now. Mug'thol's warriors serve too," from Warcraft 3 TFT "The Dark Lady". The questline would be brief like Helfs and follow into Tirisfal Glades.

That would be an interesting spot to start them.

Mug’thol and the Crushridge clan in vanilla WoW has broken free from Sylvanas’s control, and Horde have a quest to go assassinate him (The Crown of Will). I suppose the starting quests could take after his assassination, with a Horde-friendly ogre installed as leader. The other thing to keep in mind is the the Crushridge ogres are a splinter of the Stonemaul ogres (the Crushridge ones stayed in the Eastern Kingdoms while the Stonemaul ones went off to Kalimdor) and the Stonemaul are allied with the Horde. So perhaps, with the death of Mug’thol, the two clans reunite under a Stonemaul leadership, and who that is depends on if you’re talking before or after players help assassinate Mok’morokk. If after, you could also incorporate the Stonemaul clan retaking Stonemaul Village.

With Rexxar's Backstory,I think the Stonemaul clan should be the chosen one(even thought a horde race in the Eastern Kingdoms should be more appropriate)

[Totuga]

23

[Whalemilk]

-1
Blood elves are one of wow's worst writing and character development mistakes short of cataclysm and ancients in outland.
This would be a foolproof way to break the lore for good and shoo a lot of roleplay oriented people, who stay here for the purity of the setting, go away.

Yeah, honestly I think ogres should be the last race added and nothing to the alliance. I wouldn’t care if the number of races per faction were different

[Kazgrim]

Worgen for alliance and a gilneas zone.