PvP balancing

[Diablowjob]

Agree about Shadow Priests. Imbalanced absolutely. Shit ton of mana, they jsut spam you to death. Also blackout can proc 3 times in a row no jokes here. So you die in a stunlock. Need nerf for sure.

[Elleshar]

Same counts for cast shaman, you eat 4k in one global - they are tanky as hell
You can't really interrupt their heals because, orc... and their water shield never lets them get oom

Very true.

[Charanko]

forget about paladins... Shadow priests are ridiculously OP on Twow. they have so much mana now, they just spam their spells to no end and fish for procs.

Lets take it one step at a time… dont think devs are capable of fixing 2 at the same time.

But i agree; shadowpriest are borderlane insane on turtle… they were never weak to begin with in base vanilla… but here i have no words… in 99% sure none of these class buffs are tested even for a second in pvp…they were never ment to nuke u in 2 secs flat … while topping himself lol… there is a reason they were tanky and had long cd on mind blast


…vanilla was far from perfect; but at least it had some logic behind classes/specs;


The deeper problem on turtle is way too strong items and dmg/stats on everything; + class buffs and makes the whole balance go bonkers

And if we doing game balance…
you need to change all the saps/polis /traps etc to be max 10 to
15s in pvp … no reason at all for poli/sap to last 45 s … or make poli have some cd

[Gantulga]

you need to change all the saps/polis /traps etc to be max 10 to
15s in pvp … no reason at all for poli/sap to last 45 s … or make poli have some cd

None of those last for 45s and both have the retarded heartbeat mechanic. Sap can randomly end a few seconds after being applied and you can't even reapply it like with polymorph.

[Charanko]

you need to change all the saps/polis /traps etc to be max 10 to
15s in pvp … no reason at all for poli/sap to last 45 s … or make poli have some cd

None of those last for 45s and both have the retarded heartbeat mechanic. Sap can randomly end a few seconds after being applied and you can't even reapply it like with polymorph.

Tell me somthing i dont know… no one said remove hb mechanic from them; if ur unlucky it can last long…very long… read what i said … poli max 15s…why? because so when he spams it on u its 15s then 7 then 3 max…
Hb mechanic is not reliable you can still be saped / sheeped for 30s …

why does anyone need to be cced for 30s? Hell even 20s… Other then beeing annoying/broken? Please explain it to me

[Ataika]

you need to change all the saps/polis /traps etc to be max 10 to
15s in pvp … no reason at all for poli/sap to last 45 s … or make poli have some cd

Sap can randomly end a few seconds after being applied

yeah sure it can, thats why i have never seen that happening for over 2 years of pvping here and you surely wont able to reproduce it on video cause you gonna lose your ass waiting that rarest history moment to happen

spread your rogue tears somewhere where people have no clue how sap works

[Allwynd01]

I don't know what and why are you so angry about that you wrote so much nonsensical things. I don't even do PvP, I have Retribution Paladin at level 60, but I've stopped playing it as soon as I hit 60, I haven't done the PvE or PvP for gearing my character, it just sits there, mainly I do leveling in MMORPGs, this is my thing.

why are u even replying to what im saying when u dont even do pvp or play at 60...
Whos angry, im just calling out the absurd state of paladins on turtle...

They will never nerf paladins, apparently the owners GF plays one.
Just all roll palas.

explains alot

Why are you even quoting me when you don't want to discuss anything? Do you live with the infantile beliefs that you should have the last word? You aren't making any sense.

Your replies are passive aggressive and provocative. Go back and reread them and the words choices you make.

[Jkldsngkljsng]

I don't do much PvP...

Then why are you even here.

This is the problem with this forum.
Everyone thinks they should share their "absolute facts" (just veiled opinions) about something they know nothing about.

[Charanko]

I don't know what and why are you so angry about that you wrote so much nonsensical things. I don't even do PvP, I have Retribution Paladin at level 60, but I've stopped playing it as soon as I hit 60, I haven't done the PvE or PvP for gearing my character, it just sits there, mainly I do leveling in MMORPGs, this is my thing.

why are u even replying to what im saying when u dont even do pvp or play at 60...
Whos angry, im just calling out the absurd state of paladins on turtle...

They will never nerf paladins, apparently the owners GF plays one.
Just all roll palas.

explains alot

Why are you even quoting me when you don't want to discuss anything? Do you live with the infantile beliefs that you should have the last word? You aren't making any sense.

Your replies are passive aggressive and provocative. Go back and reread them and the words choices you make.

Because im on the phone and when i quote it quotes the whole post and its a bitch to edit;

Anyways …
What do you want me to discuss with you on a topic called PVP BALANCE; and you clearly stated you dont pvp nor play at 60?

What?? Make it make sense plz

[Stasyalyova]

Yes, thanks to blackout u can live not 5sec with any melee, but on 3 sec longer (if u got lucky 10%) until inevitable death ofc, if u have same geared enemy.

[Geojak]

Yes, thanks to blackout u can live not 5sec with any melee, but on 3 sec longer (if u got lucky 10%) until inevitable death ofc, if u have same geared enemy.

Any well geared shadow priests is gonna mob the floor with any warrior, druid, even paladins, rogue too if they can get a fear of

[Stasyalyova]

Any well geared shadow priests is gonna mob the floor with any warrior, druid, even paladins, rogue too if they can get a fear of

We have 1 fear with 30sec cd that easily dispel by pvp trinket, totem or undead. If target under fear it not save us also, any damage breaks it, if we try run away it also not a win

We not have time to kill enemy so fast, when they crit by over 1k per hit - it 5 sec of life. Also you forgot about mana that not unlimited when melees have free hits like a bulldozer on any cloth

If you speak about good rogue he never give u use fear even once - u'll be permanent stunned :)

[Atreidon]

Shadow priest thanks to inner fire & shadowform as well as shield & selfheal has more stayingpower against physical damage than half the classes in the game. if you die to any physical damage dealer within 5 secs, you are either massively undergeared or doing something spectacularly wrong.

When it comes to pvp balance you have to consider equally geared opponents to have a fruitful discussion. And outside of some berserker buff shenannegans, no melee can blow up a shadowpriest in 5 seconds. Most cant even get it done it 15 seconds, even without fear being a factor

If you assume your enemy has trinket to break fear, you have to also aknowledge that you can use your trinket to get out of his stun too

[Charanko]

Yes, thanks to blackout u can live not 5sec with any melee, but on 3 sec longer (if u got lucky 10%) until inevitable death ofc, if u have same geared enemy.

U must be in full green gear;because anyone who played more then 2 bgs will tell u shadow priest on turtle are borderline broken

[Stasyalyova]

Yes, thanks to blackout u can live not 5sec with any melee, but on 3 sec longer (if u got lucky 10%) until inevitable death ofc, if u have same geared enemy.

U must be in full green gear;because anyone who played more then 2 bgs will tell u shadow priest on turtle are borderline broken

I'm in raid gear, but it not saves from melee hits. When u get 800 per hit on cloth it just not serious. Also if you play even 2 bg anyone can tell u that shamans broken not less than paladin/druid/spriest or any other class

[Psynic]

Ok, i didnt expected that much answers and i really didnt thought that anyone could see it different than me^^. ive read smth like... "palas only defeat melees"... they onehit casters. i got 5k life Shadow, but what can i do when that is not enough to survive the first hit?

Nvm. I just wanted to say something, i play wow since 2004 and pala always was a hard enemy, but never a godclass.

Ty for all your answers. I didnt read all. If nothing will be changed on this, it will be still the best server. Only pvp is not that good for me, its just my opinion.

Greetings
Psynic

[Stasyalyova]

Ok, i didnt expected that much answers and i really didnt thought that anyone could see it different than me^^. ive read smth like... "palas only defeat melees"... they onehit casters. i got 5k life Shadow, but what can i do when that is not enough to survive the first hit?

Nvm. I just wanted to say something, i play wow since 2004 and pala always was a hard enemy, but never a godclass.

Ty for all your answers. I didnt read all. If nothing will be changed on this, it will be still the best server. Only pvp is not that good for me, its just my opinion.

Greetings
Psynic

Same here with same hp (5500), but against shamans and just any melee classes. They too hard hit on cloth but it seems right so no reason call disbalance Rock-Paper-Scissors way :)

We as support class can't burst and kill in 2 sec, so we need pump for a while, so we need our stuns and fear, a lot health, shield etc for survive a bit longer.

[Psynic]

Same here with same hp (5500), but against shamans and just any melee classes. They too hard hit on cloth but it seems right so no reason call disbalance Rock-Paper-Scissors way :)

We as support class can't burst and kill in 2 sec, so we need pump for a while, so we need our stuns and fear, a lot health, shield etc for survive a bit longer.

Maybe, I wouldnt have thought that people think shadowpriest is op here. After reading all these posts i can understand that a bit. :D Shadow is wonderful.
And ye, even if i play shadow, it is still right, when i say: shadow is a scissor and many classes are papers for him^^ but pala is a well! And papers.... that should defeat the well, cant defeat the well when he got his CD's.

I like the scissors paper stone system, it was always like this.

I just will continue my "goodgear-retri-tactic". I try to cc, dispell and run, try to hide, stay behind the other victims of the pala.
You can see pretty good if the pala is geared. he gets this crazy jump with gear. A bis shadow would lose vs a bis paladin for sure. (If both got full cds, and both are experienced and engis). The full thoughts about this duel, will get to far. engi does make a difference ofcourse. But palas can dispell net. If the pala is stupid he uses bubble on rockethelm... but u cant expect that. Bombs can help a bit, but its only one short stun to prevent them from heal or hit...

[Allwynd01]

I don't do much PvP...

Then why are you even here.

This is the problem with this forum.
Everyone thinks they should share their "absolute facts" (just veiled opinions) about something they know nothing about.

I don't do PvP, because it's unbalanced and masochistic and people who do PvP are masochists. I've done PvP in the past and quit, because there is little point in it and little satisfaction, only frustration. The people who continue to do PvP are the same ones who constantly whine and complain something isn't balanced.

So I explained that Vanilla WoW is not balanced and wherever there is a glimmer of balance, that is entirely a coincidence and not intentional one bit. And I gave an example with what trash POS WoW has become around TBC, WoTLK and later on when the developers tried to balance everything - they made every class homogenized and feeling the same like the rest, nothing was unique and fun anymore.

Which is why the people who play TBC, WoTLK or any other future version, can't play Vanilla, because it's not balanced and they can't deal with it. On the other hand there are the Vanilla PvP masochists who know it's not balanced, but keep playing it and keep complaining and whining about it, because they've seen it being balanced in future versions at the expense of destroying every single class and every single bit of enjoyment the game has, so they act like immature kids who want the Turtle WoW developers, with a magic wand, to somehow balance PvP but not ruin the entire game.

So in short, I want to remind everyone that you can't balance Vanilla without destroying the entire game, like it has happened in every single expansion since 2007 and onward.

If you, in your masochism, somehow feel more competent on how Vanilla PvP can be balanced without destroying the entire game, which in case you didn't know for 20 years, was built around PvE first and PvP was a mere afterthought.

Therefore, don't tell me or ask me stupid questions why I post here, this is not a "special thread" for people with "special needs" only, it concerns absolutely everyone who plays Turtle WoW, because if PvP gets rebalanced, then everything else gets changed and not everyone wants that.

What annoys me is entitled people like you and the OP and a few more on this thread who act like spoiled entitled children and expect things to happen their way because they believed in the heart of the cards really hard. And their solution is the bestest ever.

Give me a break, people need to realize that they should be thankful Turtle WoW even exists and it's actually as successful as it is that it keeps a stable population of ~5000 daily players and keeps getting massive content updates akin to actual official expansions, something literally no server has done before or will ever likely do again. Turtle WoW spawned the whole fad for "Vanilla Plus" and there are a few more projects trying to do the same, but none of them are even remotely successful, so I suggest you and the others to reevaluate your expectations and just be happy with what you have, if you whine and complain, it won't make a difference, it will only make the Turtle WoW developers even harder to reach, because they are fed up of infantile entitled adults acting like children always asking for things and never giving anything in return. How many of the people asking for stuff even support the server by buying Turtle Points or anything else? Not that many.

[Jkldsngkljsng]

[S]chizopost

I don't for a second believe you have done any serious PvP. Oh, you dipped your toes in and joined a battleground or had a little world pvp match while levelling and didn't like it, but you think you now know what PvP is?

Again, I said Vanilla is balanced around WSG, and it achieved that, but you can't handle the cognitive dissonance you get from acknowledging that so you just get all weird and contradictory about it.

TBC, Wrath and moving forward were balanced around Arena. Popular opinion states classes felt complete with Wrath and it was only in MoP, and starting with Cata, that classes were getting homogenised and losing class identity.

Again, Vanilla is already balanced and it's around WSG.

All Vanilla+ projects before died when developers starting messing with classes, and most often it would happen a dev would overbuff his main class, breaking the game, and then refuse to nerf it to a balanced state because more often than not the developer would be a mid level player at best.

The intro cinematic for Vanilla is entirely PvP ffs.
That you are one of those stupid people who spread the lies about PvP being an "afterthought" really just beats the nail in that you know nothing about this entire subject. Vanilla has been a PvP game since release. You level in the 'World' and while doing that you meet the opposite faction and do 'Warcraft'.

If you just want to stay delusional, then leave and go play your paladin.

[Psynic]

What annoys me is entitled people like you and the OP and a few more on this thread who act like spoiled entitled children and expect things to happen their way because they believed in the heart of the cards really hard. And their solution is the bestest ever.

Your comment seems very childish, bc i replied friendly to you and you act with ignorance. Ofcourse Classic wow was never balanced, it was Always Like this.

What annoys me are unpolite and ignorant people, you dont like PvP and think everyone who does PvP here is a masochist... You insult every pvp-player, bc you think u are smarter? Only bc you have a bad Angermanagement, all others are the same?

And your arguments are totally of the board, bc there is a difference between total balancing and to stop a undefeatable class in 1on1.

Ur post was a perfect example for ignorant mankind and senceless insulting.

You stated your opinion, thats cool. But the way you did it, made me lose all normal respect for you, that every human deserves at first meet.

The topic is done. No need to continue. Atleast ive learned Something.

- Close please

[Charanko]

I'm in raid gear, but it not saves from melee hits. When u get 800 per hit on cloth it just not serious. Also if you play even 2 bg anyone can tell u that shamans broken not less than paladin/druid/spriest or any other class

seems like a skill issue to me
im Overlord of Orgrimmar this week x)... its safe to say i play a lot more bgs then you :)

well shadow priest is way too overtunned on turtle, maybe because of gear, maybe because of custom changes... the fact he can nuke u from 100 to 0 in a blink of an eye, while toping himself ; something shadow priest was never ment to be doing...
i can agree make him more tanky but nerf his dmg, ALOT; like he used to be in pure vanilla
...problem is everything does so much dmg on turtle its not even funny;

Rock-Paper-Scissors is out of the window on turtle with all their changes; its kind of a balance shitshow
im down for nefring all dmg on turrtle by 20 to 30%

[Charanko]

All Vanilla+ projects before died when developers starting messing with classes, and most often it would happen a dev would overbuff his main class, breaking the game, and then refuse to nerf it to a balanced state because more often than not the developer would be a mid level player at best.

Turtle in a nutshell; people forget that classes were somewhat balanced in vanilla a result of years of active balancing;
im not saying game was totally balanced, but compared to turtle it was

[Codymb24]

I think most people just suck at their class and don't know how to pvp in general. When a class beats them consistently they don't change up strats, or use a consume or trinket that might give an advantage. They don't stack stamina, they don't learn the opposed class. No, they just cry nerf. Yes paladins are a bit overtuned for twow. But they are not invincible and really have a hard time against some other classes. Nothing is perfectly balanced and it shouldn't be. Because if it was we end up back in retail and it becomes boring.

[Ataika]

Ok, i didnt expected that much answers and i really didnt thought that anyone could see it different than me^^. ive read smth like... "palas only defeat melees"... they onehit casters. i got 5k life Shadow, but what can i do when that is not enough to survive the first hit?

Nvm. I just wanted to say something, i play wow since 2004 and pala always was a hard enemy, but never a godclass.

Ty for all your answers. I didnt read all. If nothing will be changed on this, it will be still the best server. Only pvp is not that good for me, its just my opinion.

Greetings
Psynic

Same here with same hp (5500), but against shamans and just any melee classes. They too hard hit on cloth but it seems right so no reason call disbalance Rock-Paper-Scissors way :)

We as support class can't burst and kill in 2 sec, so we need pump for a while, so we need our stuns and fear, a lot health, shield etc for survive a bit longer.

Why you always post about "cloth" ?
You have additionaldamage reduction, you have strong armour buff.
Cloth is warlock and mage with very low baseline armor reduction eben under buffs, priest has quite good armor

Add here phisicaldamage reduction from shadowform, increased vampiring healing, both offensive and defensive dispell, self heal inside form and strong instant finisher turtle wow gladly gave to you, huge shield on demand that prevents warrior to build rage, instant meele fear and racials - the class is pretty durabvle.
Your problem is crap gear, with decent gear SP kills quite fast and not an easy target to take it down.

[Stasyalyova]

Ok, i didnt expected that much answers and i really didnt thought that anyone could see it different than me^^. ive read smth like... "palas only defeat melees"... they onehit casters. i got 5k life Shadow, but what can i do when that is not enough to survive the first hit?

Nvm. I just wanted to say something, i play wow since 2004 and pala always was a hard enemy, but never a godclass.

Ty for all your answers. I didnt read all. If nothing will be changed on this, it will be still the best server. Only pvp is not that good for me, its just my opinion.

Greetings
Psynic

Same here with same hp (5500), but against shamans and just any melee classes. They too hard hit on cloth but it seems right so no reason call disbalance Rock-Paper-Scissors way :)

We as support class can't burst and kill in 2 sec, so we need pump for a while, so we need our stuns and fear, a lot health, shield etc for survive a bit longer.

Why you always post about "cloth" ?
You have additionaldamage reduction, you have strong armour buff.
Cloth is warlock and mage with very low baseline armor reduction eben under buffs, priest has quite good armor

Add here phisicaldamage reduction from shadowform, increased vampiring healing, both offensive and defensive dispell, self heal inside form and strong instant finisher turtle wow gladly gave to you, huge shield on demand that prevents warrior to build rage, instant meele fear and racials - the class is pretty durabvle.
Your problem is crap gear, with decent gear SP kills quite fast and not an easy target to take it down.

Man, i never cried about pvp actually
My gear from top raids and I have plenty dps, all i wrote is truth about how designed classes here.

Why i always post about cloth? I post about cloth here second time (if not once) and reason is cloth wearers ALWAYS fragile so they have their tricks. All people who crying here for NERF classes just need check gear or hands, because every class able to kill spriest same easy as any mage. Mages have frost armor, they just freeze u, blink and hard crit on u to death. Warlock not only has armor buff but he has 30% damage reduction on his pet. Or he use succubus. Not talking about soulstones. What else u want to say?

[Stasyalyova]

I'm in raid gear, but it not saves from melee hits. When u get 800 per hit on cloth it just not serious. Also if you play even 2 bg anyone can tell u that shamans broken not less than paladin/druid/spriest or any other class

seems like a skill issue to me
im Overlord of Orgrimmar this week x)... its safe to say i play a lot more bgs then you :)

well shadow priest is way too overtunned on turtle, maybe because of gear, maybe because of custom changes... the fact he can nuke u from 100 to 0 in a blink of an eye, while toping himself ; something shadow priest was never ment to be doing...
i can agree make him more tanky but nerf his dmg, ALOT; like he used to be in pure vanilla
...problem is everything does so much dmg on turtle its not even funny;

Rock-Paper-Scissors is out of the window on turtle with all their changes; its kind of a balance shitshow
im down for nefring all dmg on turrtle by 20 to 30%

Very interesting how he can kill u full health while u blink. How much health do u have? Our fastest damage spell has 5.5-8sec cd, pike is 30sec cd, channel is long time dot, we can't burn u so fast. Maybe u met spriest under hard buffs on crit + consumes and engineering? Or he wasn't alone? If so, I very want DevOps make pvp fully without any world buffs or consumes (except only class ones as mana stone, healthstone). Not sure about engineering.

Also I'm not against make spriest more tanky but spriest not tank, he support class for mana/health Regen to group. Would be cool if they make mind flay more regen mana (idk about healing), instead of some damage from mind blast for example. We can't rely on crits anyway

[Stasyalyova]

If u want FAIR pvp: no any consumes and buffs out of classes, everyone should have same gear. Make an equal starting conditions. And u got MOBA

[Atreidon]

Mind blast + pain spike with double crit can deal somewhere around 2.5k-3k dmg in 1.5 seconds (plus some gcd afterwards)

Thats for burst, now as a shadow priest you also are actually equipped with the longjevity tools to give you time to make use of sw:p & mindflay.

Blackout, shadow form, pw:shield, vampiric embrace, fear, inner fire, silence and the mindflay slow all help you massively in drawing out fights to where you get the targets into range to finish them off with mindspike

Im just gonna leave this video of a shadow priest on turtle that knows what he's doing and has gear here. He uses berserking quite a bit, but i hope it gets the point about burst across anyway

[Stasyalyova]

Mind blast + pain spike with double crit can deal somewhere around 2.5k-3k dmg in 1.5 seconds (plus some gcd afterwards)

Thats for burst, now as a shadow priest you also are actually equipped with the longjevity tools to give you time to make use of sw:p & mindflay.

Blackout, shadow form, pw:shield, vampiric embrace, fear, inner fire, silence and the mindflay slow all help you massively in drawing out fights to where you get the targets into range to finish them off with mindspike

Im just gonna leave this video of a shadow priest on turtle that knows what he's doing and has gear here. He uses berserking quite a bit, but i hope it gets the point about burst across anyway

1. Cutted the most cool scenes. In real u'll die same easy as win.
2. He use consumes and usable items as trinkets. If u want win in pvp where u can use consumes - u do it.
3. Crits is unreliable for spriest so he cut it as a wonder happense.
4. Enemy with lower than 5k hp usually mages and new players, mostly all melees and warlocks have 6-8k. Of course gear means a lot, it means for all equally. For not burst we got cooldowns.
5. Pvp practice - he knows how to play and do it. It not about class.
6. Priest has less from crit, not as mage double crit. When u have 800 spell power mind blast from u 900-1.3k. Crit 1.3-2k if u use shadowform but not use buffs/consumes and target not have defuffs and no shadow resistance. Pike 600-800 dmg (it not scaling with shadowform and weaving, other talents). Yes good numbers but again - they have 5.5-8sec cd and 30sec cd(and dmg from pike heals back). Now check warlock or mage skills with same spell power.

Nice video

[Ftr]

This is a server for modifying professions, please don't stick to PVP.

[Ataika]

Same here with same hp (5500), but against shamans and just any melee classes. They too hard hit on cloth but it seems right so no reason call disbalance Rock-Paper-Scissors way :)

We as support class can't burst and kill in 2 sec, so we need pump for a while, so we need our stuns and fear, a lot health, shield etc for survive a bit longer.

Why you always post about "cloth" ?
You have additionaldamage reduction, you have strong armour buff.
Cloth is warlock and mage with very low baseline armor reduction eben under buffs, priest has quite good armor

Add here phisicaldamage reduction from shadowform, increased vampiring healing, both offensive and defensive dispell, self heal inside form and strong instant finisher turtle wow gladly gave to you, huge shield on demand that prevents warrior to build rage, instant meele fear and racials - the class is pretty durabvle.
Your problem is crap gear, with decent gear SP kills quite fast and not an easy target to take it down.

Man, i never cried about pvp actually
My gear from top raids and I have plenty dps, all i wrote is truth about how designed classes here.

Why i always post about cloth? I post about cloth here second time (if not once) and reason is cloth wearers ALWAYS fragile so they have their tricks. All people who crying here for NERF classes just need check gear or hands, because every class able to kill spriest same easy as any mage. Mages have frost armor, they just freeze u, blink and hard crit on u to death. Warlock not only has armor buff but he has 30% damage reduction on his pet. Or he use succubus. Not talking about soulstones. What else u want to say?

Nope
SL locks are much more durable than most platers and its cloth class

[Allwynd01]

What annoys me is entitled people like you and the OP and a few more on this thread who act like spoiled entitled children and expect things to happen their way because they believed in the heart of the cards really hard. And their solution is the bestest ever.

Your comment seems very childish, bc i replied friendly to you and you act with ignorance. Ofcourse Classic wow was never balanced, it was Always Like this.

What annoys me are unpolite and ignorant people, you dont like PvP and think everyone who does PvP here is a masochist... You insult every pvp-player, bc you think u are smarter? Only bc you have a bad Angermanagement, all others are the same?

And your arguments are totally of the board, bc there is a difference between total balancing and to stop a undefeatable class in 1on1.

Ur post was a perfect example for ignorant mankind and senceless insulting.

You stated your opinion, thats cool. But the way you did it, made me lose all normal respect for you, that every human deserves at first meet.

The topic is done. No need to continue. Atleast ive learned Something.

- Close please

Whether you agree with me or not, PvP in Vanilla (and Turtle WoW) is unbalanced and there is no way to balance it without ruining the entire game along with it. Therefore it will never happen, unless Turtle WoW wants to become mediocre and souless like Retail or TBC/WoTLK and upwards.

If you consider the Paladin to be overpowered that no other class can defeat, you might have overlooked where I said numerous times that Shaman should be made as the ultimate Paladin counter with abilities that negates Paladins to the point where it makes them completely useless. It will boost Shaman popularity and make Paladins less desirable.

I'm talking about passive and active abilities that are only PvP-centric and specific and outside of PvP are completely useless.

See, I provided an actual solution that doesn't destroy the balance and mechanics of the entire game just to fix PvP. Other people talk about massive changes and only view the game from a PvP perspective, ignoring Vanilla (and Turtle) WoW is a PvE game first and PvP is an afterthought, I'm not talking about opinions here, but facts. Only people who are loyal to death to PvP can't see past their own nose and accept the reality that PvP in Vanilla (and Turtle) is a niche activity and not very popular. There are other private servers that focus entirely on PvP, some even start you at max level and have custom NPC vendors that sell you the best gear so you can equip it and immediately join in the PvP, people usually play those and don't really complain, you should look into those, and the mentality of those people and try to learn something from it.

Turtle WoW is not a PvP server or a community. It's a PvE server and community.

If it annoys you about what I said, then it means you know it's true, you just don't want to admit it for yourself and everyone else.

Also, go back to the original posts and see who started throwing insults first, secondly saying someone is immature, childish or entitled is not an insult, whoever considers it an insult, it means it's true for him/her and it pisses them off, because someone called them out.

And finally:

NO U

[Charanko]

Mind blast + pain spike with double crit can deal somewhere around 2.5k-3k dmg in 1.5 seconds (plus some gcd afterwards)

Thats for burst, now as a shadow priest you also are actually equipped with the longjevity tools to give you time to make use of sw:p & mindflay.

Blackout, shadow form, pw:shield, vampiric embrace, fear, inner fire, silence and the mindflay slow all help you massively in drawing out fights to where you get the targets into range to finish them off with mindspike

Im just gonna leave this video of a shadow priest on turtle that knows what he's doing and has gear here. He uses berserking quite a bit, but i hope it gets the point about burst across anyway

agree! way too overtuned dmg and healing on shadow; and pain spike needs to go away also

[Bawanaruto]

forget about paladins... Shadow priests are ridiculously OP on Twow. they have so much mana now, they just spam their spells to no end and fish for procs.

Pain spike was a mistake and the vampiric embrace PvE buffs made them even worse in PvP too. Not to mention blackout being a long-running issue.

i kid you not, 2 days ago i had 4 blackout stuns in a row. There is no way thats possible (1/10,000) chance? its not uncommon to get 2-3 in a row now. somehow their blackout proc rate is like 50% now instead of 10%? what in the world is going on with Turtle Wow.