Mysteries of Azeroth — is a story expansion made by the Turtle WoW Team, inspired by the Warcraft universe of Blizzard Entertainment.
https://forum.turtle-wow.org/
Making Glancing Blows unavoidable ("expertise" contribution of +weapskill already not working on emu) will make +weaponskill a pointless stat unless you are a dual wielder and even so the damage output impact would be lower than other stats. As you correctly said, better nerf 2 classes damage output (mainly warrios, but also rogues) than boost all the others.
Literally every priest should be using melee, at least while leveling. The melee swing timer is not reset by shooting with a wand, so you can weave melee hits inbetween for really good mana-free dps while your dots eat the target and you're safe insids your power word: bubble.Heartstiller wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 12:29 amIts not a big thing, but priests "inner fire" still have the old old addative of "Attack power" from when priests were intended to be a semi melee character in the very first draft of wow.
I have never encountered a priest that actually uses melee for anything other than striking judged mobs/bosses for mana regain. And then you dont use AP to hit with anyway so it dont matter much.
Cant this be changed to something a little more fun?
Spell power good but slightly boring.
Heals rest of party for 20 % of dmg taken, a bit more fun in 5 man dungeons.
"hand of god" moves the priest to the designated tank and transferes some of the aggro on him or give the tank the next strike, kinda like intervene. Really usefull and good.
Random effect, "Sheild", "Greater heal", "Fade" or freeze enemy in place with a shackle animation. Id like this wild card the most.
Agree! The Human racials compared to any other races becomes really bad. Either add a new racial or nerf the others.
If you will choose the direction to nerf a few instead of lifting others in the name of balance you should remove racials all together.
Would there be a possibility to somehow implement a book of +5 skill bonus to druid form "invisible" weapons? Guess it's a bit crazy cause the invisible cat/bear weapons don't have a word about it's existance in-game.
Hopefully it will be A, that makes sense. I wonder about the ranged weapon skills how that will be solved to stay fair to trolls, highelves and dwarves.Arthurusmenks wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 12:57 amWith these proposed changes to Racial Skills you will:
A) Have a nerfed +3 skill on human which will allow the war to get the +5 source and have base +8 skill
B) Do not allow war to have the extra +5 skill and then make human be the worst race to use swords/maces
either way the changes sound good on paper but even giving it 5 minutes of thought makes it fall appart but I guess we will have to wait and see how it turns out...
This happened because Akalix stayed so obscure. If you dotn give the details, then critical player fill it out in there heads. He could have just be less vagueShambakriger wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:34 amIt’s insane how people just start assuming the worst as soon as any new change/nerf is proposed
This is a whole patch focused on class balancing, made with the help of a council of veteran players. Do you really not think that the devs have thought about these basic objections you come up with?:P
I’m interested in how the devs will make it work, disparity between different racials is fine and unavoidable, but it’ll be nice to narrow the gap a bit. Also my main problem with weapon skill racials is more so that they’re boring rather than op
Good lord I hope they balance out the night elf racials somehow, getting 50% faster to your corpse (while still having to wait out the full death timer before you can revive) and being able to be in stationary stealth lvl 1 on a PvE server while having no in-combat racial abilities, 1% dodge AND 10 Nature Resist is OP as hell, I wonder what they can do to nerf this imbalanced race so other mere mortals can even begin to compare to night elves.Chudman123 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 5:00 amYes exactly this. I think they will try to balance racials (especially human).
Well said sir. I agree and could not say it any better
Yep, I think so. Some members, or at least players who got invited to the council did moan about weapon skill for quite some time in discord shizocraft. They picked a RPG race for various reasons, but still wanted to be competitive in the minmaxing game.Shambakriger wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:34 amThis is a whole patch focused on class balancing, made with the help of a council of veteran players. Do you really not think that the devs have thought about these basic objections you come up with?:P
Completely disagree, having less options is never a better choice. Having to be shoehorned into a single race is not
Take away the reason people play humans, you get no humans.Jamey wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 12:38 amWe're aware that this is exactly the reason players pick these specific races. We want to keep that "niche" of specific races alive while also removing the "I HAVE TO pick this race if I want to be any good at x or y" without resorting to racial-swapping as that plays more into homogenization and the "everyone is special" narrative.
No it's a good change. Characters doing 30% less dps because they picked the wrong race is not good game design, and it should have been changed from the start.Ovaron wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 7:49 amYep, I think so. Some members, or at least players who got invited to the council did moan about weapon skill for quite some time in discord shizocraft. They picked a RPG race for various reasons, but still wanted to be competitive in the minmaxing game.Shambakriger wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:34 amThis is a whole patch focused on class balancing, made with the help of a council of veteran players. Do you really not think that the devs have thought about these basic objections you come up with?:P
Game is nearly 20 Years old. Everyone who is interested in this retro game knows how this game is working. You have to pick the race with what you want to play later in mind.
So devs are now "rebalancing" the whole weaponskill system without going into detail. This isnt a very good communiction and leaves room for speculation and maybe frustration.
If they dont touch the other racials and would offer a race change - welcome to troll melee world (for pve at least).
30% is a major overstatement, for rogues its like 40 dps at the very top tier., which is more like 3%Sanserof77 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 8:26 am
No it's a good change. Characters doing 30% less dps because they picked the wrong race is not good game design, and it should have been changed from the start.
30%, come on man. Dont be this drama queen.Sanserof77 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 8:26 amNo it's a good change. Characters doing 30% less dps because they picked the wrong race is not good game design, and it should have been changed from the start.Ovaron wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 7:49 amYep, I think so. Some members, or at least players who got invited to the council did moan about weapon skill for quite some time in discord shizocraft. They picked a RPG race for various reasons, but still wanted to be competitive in the minmaxing game.Shambakriger wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:34 amThis is a whole patch focused on class balancing, made with the help of a council of veteran players. Do you really not think that the devs have thought about these basic objections you come up with?:P
Game is nearly 20 Years old. Everyone who is interested in this retro game knows how this game is working. You have to pick the race with what you want to play later in mind.
So devs are now "rebalancing" the whole weaponskill system without going into detail. This isnt a very good communiction and leaves room for speculation and maybe frustration.
If they dont touch the other racials and would offer a race change - welcome to troll melee world (for pve at least).
There's still going to be people completely new to Classic WoW and they won't understand the weapon skills, stop gatekeeping. And I didn't know this private server had shareholders, that's news to me.Ovaron wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 9:00 am30%, come on man. Dont be this drama queen.Sanserof77 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 8:26 amNo it's a good change. Characters doing 30% less dps because they picked the wrong race is not good game design, and it should have been changed from the start.Ovaron wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 7:49 am
Yep, I think so. Some members, or at least players who got invited to the council did moan about weapon skill for quite some time in discord shizocraft. They picked a RPG race for various reasons, but still wanted to be competitive in the minmaxing game.
Game is nearly 20 Years old. Everyone who is interested in this retro game knows how this game is working. You have to pick the race with what you want to play later in mind.
So devs are now "rebalancing" the whole weaponskill system without going into detail. This isnt a very good communiction and leaves room for speculation and maybe frustration.
If they dont touch the other racials and would offer a race change - welcome to troll melee world (for pve at least).
Some people chose a Nelf for style, some a Helf for fancy tbc wibes, undead/orc/tauren for pvp. But dont tell me no one knew about weapon skill in this old game.
But I get it, this design team is catering to the "all equal" modern times - and okay, so be it. Let all melee be horde then if the other racials dont change.
At least it will boost the donating for the shareholders, when they renable race change.
But you have same amount of options tho its not like current system has less of them. But if you want to be top dps you need to be orc/human for the dps rasials. And having horde with alot of orcs is good for rp.
Having to play orc/human to be competitive in your class as melee means there is only 1 option for you per faction: orc/human. That's bad game design. Sure, the other races have different benefits, but so do orcs/humans that also make them interesting without the increased damage. The original Vanilla weapon skill changing how you itemize your character is a bad way to make the game work and actually does significantly lower your damage at end game. Think about it: Hitting something = doing 100% damage and not hitting = 0% damage for that hit. At higher levels of play where your hits can proc effects and other things, not hitting 3% of the time (equivalent to the racial weapon skill bonus, roughly) actually accounts for not doing damage at all on 3% of your hits and proccing your weapon bonuses less often which also reduces your overall damageLikaleo wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 9:18 amBut you have same amount of options tho its not like current system has less of them. But if you want to be top dps you need to be orc/human for the dps rasials. And having horde with alot of orcs is good for rp.
Reality is that there will allways be top race for melee class and people will allways go for it. You can still go for gnome rogue if you want and thats okay but you cannot expect same dps output from all races
So fiery weapon might not roll over your Deep Wounds ticks, crusader enchant might not proc, trinkets might not proc, double hits from Hand of Justice, double hits from Ironfoe/Thrash Blade/etc., double hits from pally ability, triple hits from windfury etc. are all affected by the racial hit bonus thing and make a significant difference later in the gameToaomb wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 10:09 amHaving to play orc/human to be competitive in your class as melee means there is only 1 option for you per faction: orc/human. That's bad game design. Sure, the other races have different benefits, but so do orcs/humans that also make them interesting without the increased damage. The original Vanilla weapon skill changing how you itemize your character is a bad way to make the game work and actually does significantly lower your damage at end game. Think about it: Hitting something = doing 100% damage and not hitting = 0% damage for that hit. At higher levels of play where your hits can proc effects and other things, not hitting 3% of the time (equivalent to the racial weapon skill bonus, roughly) actually accounts for not doing damage at all on 3% of your hits and proccing your weapon bonuses less often which also reduces your overall damageLikaleo wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 9:18 amBut you have same amount of options tho its not like current system has less of them. But if you want to be top dps you need to be orc/human for the dps rasials. And having horde with alot of orcs is good for rp.
Reality is that there will allways be top race for melee class and people will allways go for it. You can still go for gnome rogue if you want and thats okay but you cannot expect same dps output from all races
And so now Troll is best class for melee damage? very well then: start to balance that issue as well! Maybe give a drawback on the attack speed increase like reduced healing taken or increased resource cost to use or an exhaustion after use / movespeed penalty or somethingToaomb wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 10:11 amSo fiery weapon might not roll over your Deep Wounds ticks, crusader enchant might not proc, trinkets might not proc, double hits from Hand of Justice, double hits from Ironfoe/Thrash Blade/etc., double hits from pally ability, triple hits from windfury etc. are all affected by the racial hit bonus thing and make a significant difference later in the gameToaomb wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 10:09 amHaving to play orc/human to be competitive in your class as melee means there is only 1 option for you per faction: orc/human. That's bad game design. Sure, the other races have different benefits, but so do orcs/humans that also make them interesting without the increased damage. The original Vanilla weapon skill changing how you itemize your character is a bad way to make the game work and actually does significantly lower your damage at end game. Think about it: Hitting something = doing 100% damage and not hitting = 0% damage for that hit. At higher levels of play where your hits can proc effects and other things, not hitting 3% of the time (equivalent to the racial weapon skill bonus, roughly) actually accounts for not doing damage at all on 3% of your hits and proccing your weapon bonuses less often which also reduces your overall damageLikaleo wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 9:18 am
But you have same amount of options tho its not like current system has less of them. But if you want to be top dps you need to be orc/human for the dps rasials. And having horde with alot of orcs is good for rp.
Reality is that there will allways be top race for melee class and people will allways go for it. You can still go for gnome rogue if you want and thats okay but you cannot expect same dps output from all races
stop quoting yourself, wont cleanup this for you.
This is reassuring to hear. Both from the idea of sticking to vanilla+ (where we get to have the loved vanilla experience, but extend it into new content/exploration). Also from the perspective of preserving some of the class/spec/build identity we've already assumed within our respective niche in TWOW.