Turtle WoW

I'm looking forward to the changes, you guys are fighters :) we'll see what + and - time will tell.)

Rybanacz

To start with the positive:
No decay between ranks and more gearing options are awesome changes! Though as some have already said, you should look into the possibility of removing decay entirely. Very, very happy to see some thought being given to Turtle PvP<3

Cross-faction BGs on the other hand…
The alliance and horde aren’t at war in vanilla, that’s why all the battlegrounds consist of small territorial skirmishes waged by smaller, more aggressive/extremist factions.
The “mercenary” title is a very weak lore justification for letting night elves slaughter their own brethren and take part in the desecration of the sacred forests of Ashenvale. Vanilla battlegrounds are tied into the world and into the lore, this change takes WoW PvP one step closer to being a lobby game.
Like adding blood elves to the horde, this change might fix a balancing/demographic issue, but it’ll forever damage the integrity and lore of the game.

The notable exception would of course be Blood Ring, where I would very much be in favor of cross-faction!:) There it makes sense lore-wise and the impact of shamans and paladins is felt a lot more in 2v2.

Harkus wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:23 am

Yidhra wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:56 am

So will there be PvP class balance patches now as well?

No, because now paladins and shamans are on both sides

Satirical wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:10 am

I don't mind PVP at all. Just don't think it's lore friendly to do mercenaries.

But do read into something that isn't there.

Faction war is not lore friendly to begin with. At the end of Warcraft III, all factions have suffered immense losses, have just defeated an intergalactic threat. The only way they managed to BARELY do this is by working together. It was only a temporary setback for the Legion however. The idea that after only a few years they would be at war again is completely ridiculous, especially when you consider the Lich King is still out there and more powerful than ever before...

In that light I've always viewed faction conflict in Turtle more as skirmishes, minor conflicts. Plus I do not see why the occasional shaman could not have beef with the undead or why the occasional paladin would not much value the night elves' forests. And honestly, humans teaming up with tauren is no more ridiculous than undead teaming up with orcs or night elves teaming up with dwarves... the vanilla factions were clearly created with gameplay intentions rather than lore reasons. It would have been cool to have four factions but alas!

Plus as others have said, teaming up in PvE is fine but not PvP?

I see it like you.
Crossfaction grouping Is more lore friendly and better gameplay.
The allaince and horde, while mistrusting each other (remeber admiral produmoures invasion) and there some hot conflict like wsg, ab and av. Overally thought the sides are at an awkward piece and not at war at all.

Like thrall has friendly ties with jaina, we players also are free to have friendly ties with each other, group up, or fight for the other side as mercs.

Ffa World pvp will compelte this.

Lastly Ff14 has prpfen has splitting the playerbase in half with barely any ways to interact is bad and outdated.
Having crossfsction gilds, Raids, bgs, and World pvp is just better.

Make a pvp server with crossfaction disabled like Chinese hogger Server, so we can have proper lore friendly crossfaction on pve server

maybe have a day where the battlegrounds are locked down but you get double/triple honor to encourage world pvp?

I see it like you.
Crossfaction grouping Is more lore friendly and better gameplay.
The allaince and horde, while mistrusting each other (remeber admiral produmoures invasion) and there some hot conflict like wsg, ab and av. Overally thought the sides are at an awkward piece and not at war at all.

Like thrall has friendly ties with jaina, we players also are free to have friendly ties with each other, group up, or fight for the other side as mercs.

Ffa World pvp will compelte this.

Lastly Ff14 has prpfen has splitting the playerbase in half with barely any ways to interact is bad and outdated.
Having crossfsction gilds, Raids, bgs, and World pvp is just better.

Make a pvp server with crossfaction disabled like Chinese hogger Server, so we can have proper lore friendly crossfaction on pve server
[/quote]

How would you be welcomed in Orgrimmar when rumour spread that you helped the dwarves of Alterac Valley kill Drek'thar, one of Thralls most trusted advisors?
Or how would the alliance treat you after finding out that you helped the forsaken gain a foothold in Arathi Basin, one of the last bastions of human power in the north?
Cross-faction battlegrounds aren't lore-friendly just because the alliance and horde aren't in an all out war. The mercenary system would only make sense if you were officially counted as a deserter to your faction, and that's a whole other can of worms

Great changes except for xfaction bgs which i think should be a last resort after putting some effort into balancing the factions. I'm suprised factions are as balanced as they are with high elfs being given to the alliance and with how op paladins are. Give horde undead paladins and ally dwarf shaman and the server would be close to 50/50 of course over half the server would be paladins so you might not want to do that. There has to be some solution though.

This has to come with class balance though else it's largely pointless. The next patch brings even worse PvP balance with things like the totems change.

Are new pvp rewards for each bracket or 60 only?

Any fixes for glitches on existing battlegrounds in plans? (fencejumping etc)

Shambakriger wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:19 am

How would you be welcomed in Orgrimmar when rumour spread that you helped the dwarves of Alterac Valley kill Drek'thar, one of Thralls most trusted advisors?
Or how would the alliance treat you after finding out that you helped the forsaken gain a foothold in Arathi Basin, one of the last bastions of human power in the north?
Cross-faction battlegrounds aren't lore-friendly just because the alliance and horde aren't in an all out war. The mercenary system would only make sense if you were officially counted as a deserter to your faction, and that's a whole other can of worms

Sometimes gameplay > small lore inconsistencies

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:57 am

This has to come with class balance though else it's largely pointless. The next patch brings even worse PvP balance with things like the totems change.

Problem with totem changes it also it's unfun anti vanilla.
Vanilla gameplay charm is it's simple, straight forward.
Spamm frostbolt. Spamm Flash heal, put totems 1 2 3 4 then spamm Ligning bolt

This change goes into the direction of Wotlk and retail, now you have to make tons of totem macros to rly abuse the change. Anti casual, anti vanilla

Agreed I wish they didn't to xfaction and totem changes and I main shaman

Geojak wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:16 pm

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:57 am

This has to come with class balance though else it's largely pointless. The next patch brings even worse PvP balance with things like the totems change.

Problem with totem changes it also it's unfun anti vanilla.
Vanilla gameplay charm is it's simple, straight forward.
Spamm frostbolt. Spamm Flash heal, put totems 1 2 3 4 then spamm Ligning bolt

This change goes into the direction of Wotlk and retail, now you have to make tons of totem macros to rly abuse the change. Anti casual, anti vanilla

It also makes it impossible to break totems and makes unfavorable matchups even more unfavorable.

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:39 pm

Geojak wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:16 pm

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:57 am

This has to come with class balance though else it's largely pointless. The next patch brings even worse PvP balance with things like the totems change.

Problem with totem changes it also it's unfun anti vanilla.
Vanilla gameplay charm is it's simple, straight forward.
Spamm frostbolt. Spamm Flash heal, put totems 1 2 3 4 then spamm Ligning bolt

This change goes into the direction of Wotlk and retail, now you have to make tons of totem macros to rly abuse the change. Anti casual, anti vanilla

It also makes it impossible to break totems and makes unfavorable matchups even more unfavorable.

This server isn’t balance around pvp and never will be

Eversongwoods wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:43 am

Great changes except for xfaction bgs which i think should be a last resort after putting some effort into balancing the factions. I'm suprised factions are as balanced as they are with high elfs being given to the alliance and with how op paladins are. Give horde undead paladins and ally dwarf shaman and the server would be close to 50/50 of course over half the server would be paladins so you might not want to do that. There has to be some solution though.

dunno how much you pvp'd lately, but horde got queue times for wsg/ab/av of 8-10mins at times while alliance got insta queues. furthermore horde on avg got the better pvpers, I play both faction for quite while and as hard it sounds, thats the reality. xfaction pvp would also address both this problems.

i rather take small lore issues than long queue time and unbalanced bgs

Akalix wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 1:40 am

Mercenaries: Adding crossfaction to battlegrounds.
This is a change we are looking to add to provide quicker queuetimes and allow re-filling of deserted slots. The age of our realm causes a great disparity in gear within battlegrounds, thus we are looking into ways to use this to balance out teams better.

The only reason I play horde is because of the fast queues for Alterac Valey. Now I'm going to start leveling a paladin knowing that I won't have to wait 1hr for Alterac Valey.

So will be a possible limited time faction change for people who play on X faction because could not find BGs on their ideal faction ?

Great change for the decay, I was waiting for this.

Like other said already, it would be great if we could start over at the max rank we had gained so far.

I'm just not sure about Cross Faction BGs yet, It'll depend on how it's implemented. I like the battlegrounds being thematic (AV: Dwarves vs Orcs, AB: Humans vs Forsaken, WG: Night Elves vs Orcs), will the race of players fighting for the opposite side temporarily change during the match? Like the orb of deception effect or like the effect in caverns of time in retail.

THANK YOU.

Shoc wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:58 am

Also we alliance will have to fight horde with 50% paladin teams.
Dont to Crossfaction BG. dont! just dont

ROFL! Eat justice, frend.

It would be nice to force the cap Rank 14 at 60000 forever, so retards like luxford, laserbull and tifalock doesn't screw over the honor rating like they did for a very long time.

Oh wow I wrote a post about how garbage decay was, I didn't think you were already removing it! What an amazing change, it was always garbage, it was one of the worst parts of vanilla and now its gone!!

To me, twow officially becomes "vanilla fixed" with this.

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:57 am

This has to come with class balance though else it's largely pointless. The next patch brings even worse PvP balance with things like the totems change.

Balance changes on turtle will always and should always be almost solely focused on pve,’it’s the real draw here

Akalix wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 1:40 am

Mercenaries: Adding crossfaction to battlegrounds.
This is a change we are looking to add to provide quicker queuetimes and allow re-filling of deserted slots. The age of our realm causes a great disparity in gear within battlegrounds, thus we are looking into ways to use this to balance out teams better.

It is not really clear how crossfaction could help to balance teams in terms of gear.
If t3 guys join battleground to have fun by oneshotting people, why would they go other team?
Even if you want to, you need to know that other team is weaker before the start of the match.
Otherwise, it should be possible to change team during battleground. Mercenaries? No. Traitors!

Paladings also have an ability to drop flag. I imagine griefing scenario when paladin joins horde team and casts Blessing of Protection on flag carrier just to help alliance win.

Since this is a step in a good direction (talking about my own desires), it is clear how this community is against not only to look for PVP but also discourages anyone who likes PVP around.

Implementing more PVP features in a PVE community that hates this side of the game even though they don't even interact with it I don't think will heal anything.

For me is a clear "You have no place in here" warn, not by the staff, but by the community, they don't want anything to change their previous experience and they are very angry that anybody could join their special niche.

I'd say the solution here is to leave the PVE - HC - NICHE server and a new PVP server independent with different features (it will split the community bla bla bla), PVP community does not want things faster or easier, just wants to add the PVP factor to the same Turtle world, which is ABSOLUTELY RP oriented, because, you know, you can attack people in the world in real life...and humans and orcs are enemies and all those things...but will surely demand a big increase in developers effort, and i'm nobody to ask for it, since it is giving me for free, I'll still be waiting for this to happen in Turtle or any other upcomming classic + server that we all know this is a matter of time, to launch a nice and great horizontal PVP classic + experience for the mass.

Safe travels!

Nodemask wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:27 am

Since this is a step in a good direction (talking about my own desires), it is clear how this community is against not only to look for PVP but also discourages anyone who likes PVP around.

Implementing more PVP features in a PVE community that hates this side of the game even though they don't even interact with it I don't think will heal anything.

For me is a clear "You have no place in here" warn, not by the staff, but by the community, they don't want anything to change their previous experience and they are very angry that anybody could join their special niche.

I'd say the solution here is to leave the PVE - HC - NICHE server and a new PVP server independent with different features (it will split the community bla bla bla), PVP community does not want things faster or easier, just wants to add the PVP factor to the same Turtle world, which is ABSOLUTELY RP oriented, because, you know, you can attack people in the world in real life...and humans and orcs are enemies and all those things...but will surely demand a big increase in developers effort, and i'm nobody to ask for it, since it is giving me for free, I'll still be waiting for this to happen in Turtle or any other upcomming classic + server that we all know this is a matter of time, to launch a nice and great horizontal PVP classic + experience for the mass.

Safe travels!

finally someone that gets it <3

Max ranks should be reinstated with this change, if not this is a huge slap to the face to the people who grinded a high Rank... 14 / 13 / 12 before this system.

Charanko wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:11 am

Nodemask wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:27 am

Since this is a step in a good direction (talking about my own desires), it is clear how this community is against not only to look for PVP but also discourages anyone who likes PVP around.

Implementing more PVP features in a PVE community that hates this side of the game even though they don't even interact with it I don't think will heal anything.

For me is a clear "You have no place in here" warn, not by the staff, but by the community, they don't want anything to change their previous experience and they are very angry that anybody could join their special niche.

I'd say the solution here is to leave the PVE - HC - NICHE server and a new PVP server independent with different features (it will split the community bla bla bla), PVP community does not want things faster or easier, just wants to add the PVP factor to the same Turtle world, which is ABSOLUTELY RP oriented, because, you know, you can attack people in the world in real life...and humans and orcs are enemies and all those things...but will surely demand a big increase in developers effort, and i'm nobody to ask for it, since it is giving me for free, I'll still be waiting for this to happen in Turtle or any other upcomming classic + server that we all know this is a matter of time, to launch a nice and great horizontal PVP classic + experience for the mass.

Safe travels!

finally someone that gets it <3

Why divide the community? Crossfaction bg is the best solution. Yes it is not RP wise, but there is always something to sacrifice. There are crossfaction raids, so there will be crossfaction bg-s. So no more cry about pvp unbalance, both sides got everything.

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:37 am

Charanko wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:11 am

Nodemask wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:27 am

Since this is a step in a good direction (talking about my own desires), it is clear how this community is against not only to look for PVP but also discourages anyone who likes PVP around.

Implementing more PVP features in a PVE community that hates this side of the game even though they don't even interact with it I don't think will heal anything.

For me is a clear "You have no place in here" warn, not by the staff, but by the community, they don't want anything to change their previous experience and they are very angry that anybody could join their special niche.

I'd say the solution here is to leave the PVE - HC - NICHE server and a new PVP server independent with different features (it will split the community bla bla bla), PVP community does not want things faster or easier, just wants to add the PVP factor to the same Turtle world, which is ABSOLUTELY RP oriented, because, you know, you can attack people in the world in real life...and humans and orcs are enemies and all those things...but will surely demand a big increase in developers effort, and i'm nobody to ask for it, since it is giving me for free, I'll still be waiting for this to happen in Turtle or any other upcomming classic + server that we all know this is a matter of time, to launch a nice and great horizontal PVP classic + experience for the mass.

Safe travels!

finally someone that gets it <3

Why divide the community? Crossfaction bg is the best solution. Yes it is not RP wise, but there is always something to sacrifice. There are crossfaction raids, so there will be crossfaction bg-s. So no more cry about pvp unbalance, both sides got everything.

its already divided and the playerbase is big enough.... and some people just want to play on a pvp realm...

Shambakriger wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:19 am

How would you be welcomed in Orgrimmar when rumour spread that you helped the dwarves of Alterac Valley kill Drek'thar, one of Thralls most trusted advisors?
Or how would the alliance treat you after finding out that you helped the forsaken gain a foothold in Arathi Basin, one of the last bastions of human power in the north?
Cross-faction battlegrounds aren't lore-friendly just because the alliance and horde aren't in an all out war. The mercenary system would only make sense if you were officially counted as a deserter to your faction, and that's a whole other can of worms

This is a medieval society, it is unlikely they can keep track of every single adventurer's activities. Plus, casualties in battlegrounds are not exactly canon anyway, so it does not really matter. Battlegrounds are basically just a ''what if'' PvP scenario. An orc being able to attack Drekthar is just one of those gameplay quirks, like undead holy priests.

Charanko wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:12 pm

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:37 am

Charanko wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:11 am

finally someone that gets it <3

Why divide the community? Crossfaction bg is the best solution. Yes it is not RP wise, but there is always something to sacrifice. There are crossfaction raids, so there will be crossfaction bg-s. So no more cry about pvp unbalance, both sides got everything.

its already divided and the playerbase is big enough.... and some people just want to play on a pvp realm...

Then go to another server. Turtle is an RPvE realm. You are walking into an Italian restaurant and demanding the chef serve you Spanish foods.

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:37 am

Charanko wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:11 am

Nodemask wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 8:27 am

Since this is a step in a good direction (talking about my own desires), it is clear how this community is against not only to look for PVP but also discourages anyone who likes PVP around.

Implementing more PVP features in a PVE community that hates this side of the game even though they don't even interact with it I don't think will heal anything.

For me is a clear "You have no place in here" warn, not by the staff, but by the community, they don't want anything to change their previous experience and they are very angry that anybody could join their special niche.

I'd say the solution here is to leave the PVE - HC - NICHE server and a new PVP server independent with different features (it will split the community bla bla bla), PVP community does not want things faster or easier, just wants to add the PVP factor to the same Turtle world, which is ABSOLUTELY RP oriented, because, you know, you can attack people in the world in real life...and humans and orcs are enemies and all those things...but will surely demand a big increase in developers effort, and i'm nobody to ask for it, since it is giving me for free, I'll still be waiting for this to happen in Turtle or any other upcomming classic + server that we all know this is a matter of time, to launch a nice and great horizontal PVP classic + experience for the mass.

Safe travels!

finally someone that gets it <3

Why divide the community? Crossfaction bg is the best solution. Yes it is not RP wise, but there is always something to sacrifice. There are crossfaction raids, so there will be crossfaction bg-s. So no more cry about pvp unbalance, both sides got everything.

That would be a good option for a PVP server that wants to go PVE (for whatever reason), in this case is the other way around and you first have to grow a PVP culture for that changes to have effect and be used, the thing with Turtle is that non 100% PVE niche people from outside are avoiding this server because is known by whoever that comes to this forum that there's no and "never will be" PVP in this server, is the common speech and there are plenty of those answers to whoever tries to talk about that in this forums.

My point of view is that we can have both, but trying to have the niche community and the massive WoW pvp/pve community in the same server will be bad for both, i believe specially for the niche one.

Now about the famous "splitting the community" thing, how creating a PVP server is going to divide the community, if the current one doesn't want PVP at any cost?
We are talking about the thousand of us that are not STILL community because of this, not the ones already enjoying the PVE version of the game, you can either pay attention to those people or not, thats devs decision and it would be perfectly reasonable if they stick to the old - original - initial idea to be a niche server, understandable, again im just talking from a technical point of view.

I'd say reorient Turtle's philosophy to the "horizontal" "endless" "slow" "roleplay" "social" .... which does not require the server to be PVE or PVP, i dont get how a PVP server should be out of Turtle's philosophy, even a PVP one gets more of that sentiment (is more social and is more horizontal (as skill in classic was key in PVP, less gear dependant))

Light be with you.

Harkus wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 1:42 pm

Charanko wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:12 pm

Calli wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:37 am

Why divide the community? Crossfaction bg is the best solution. Yes it is not RP wise, but there is always something to sacrifice. There are crossfaction raids, so there will be crossfaction bg-s. So no more cry about pvp unbalance, both sides got everything.

its already divided and the playerbase is big enough.... and some people just want to play on a pvp realm...

Then go to another server. Turtle is an RPvE realm. You are walking into an Italian restaurant and demanding the chef serve you Spanish foods.

That's it, here we have that attitude again.
Go another server if you want PvP, im just asking Turtle devs to bring that server, because there's no other horizontal classic + server with PvP culture, you tell me to go play to another different server but you don't want Turtle devs to work on another server for the people that you don't want in your server.

If we are talking about that is because im not the only one asking for it, what truly is beyond my understanding is why PVE people are opposite to create a PVP server for other people to come and enjoy it, apart from the "split the community" mantras.
So nobody wants PVP in this server but creating one will split the community, you guys are genious.

I am all for improving PvP community, but concept of PvP servers in WoW is fundamentally flawed, so it should be extensively modified to fix blizz mistakes.

Easiest thing that can be done is to close BWL, AQ40 and Naxx on PvP server.

Xudo wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:01 pm

I am all for improving PvP community, but concept of PvP servers in WoW is fundamentally flawed, so it should be extensively modified to fix blizz mistakes.

Easiest thing that can be done is to close BWL, AQ40 and Naxx on PvP server.

So you take a game that is most likely the best MMO in the history, and a PvP server type that is unquestionably the most taken and popular among this game, and you say that combo is flawed.
And you add up that a "solution" to that flaw, is to take away like 60% of the content, let me stand up to clap.

You guys weren't the most brilliant bulb in your neighborhood weren't you?

Real life is not fair, not one of the PVP supporters need a fair and balanced and perfectly equalized server, you just accept that things can go wrong being warrior and facing a mage, thats the point/magic of the vanilla wow, social game, same apply if you face a full T3 and you are still on your greenies and etc.