Paladin Class Request: Longer Buff Durations

[Bigsmerf]

I think longer paladin buffs are a really swell idea.

[Werefox]

I am currently not an exact copy of warrior and i do tank endgame

Any raid through and through?

[Leathertank]

Werefox, you are NOT a team player bro

[Atreidon]

I am currently not an exact copy of warrior and i do tank endgame

Any raid through and through?

The only boss i havent maintanked yet is heigan. As his mana burn leaves you with very little room to deal enough threat. Its just not very fun for the dps.
Certainly im not held back by the taunt we have.

[Werefox]

Werefox, you are NOT a team player bro

I don't know, Comrade People's Commissar of Teamplay. I never had any problem finding a good team in this 20 y.o. game. You?

Certainly im not held back by the taunt we have.

So the class is even more fine than I thought.

[Daedalus007]

*snip*

Not sure how we went from Longer Blessing Buff Durations to taunts, but sure let's chat a bit.
Judgement of Justice as a taunt is a bad implementation that sacrifices 3 valuable talent points to have a 100% chance of taunting (but not counting miss/resist/etc). Most Tankadins are using Seal/Judgement of Righteousness (or Wisdom for mana) in between all the other tanking duties they're doing like keeping up Holy Shield and the actual raid mechanics.

TBC and WotLK both already solved the Pally Taunt problem:
Righteous Defense - https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=31789 ... us-defense
Hand of Reckoning - https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=621 ... -reckoning

Not difficult to backport these (maybe make HoR auto-crit if used on Undead/Demon mobs) since they are both PvE-specific abilities with no application to PvP. Righteous Defense is effectively the 'AoE Taunt' but modified in a Paladin way. Hand of Reckoning is your direct-target taunt. Both of these allow for flexibility should one be resisted or on CD.

Even if both of these were added to Paladins, no Warrior tank would ever lose their raid spot as either an MT or an OT. Warriors bring exclusive unique utility to the tanking scene and all of vanilla is exclusively designed around and catering to Warrior tank toolkits and abilities.

[Atreidon]

Every single Tank that goes into raids would gladly spend 3 talent points to have his taunt never miss.
That is a valuable talent point. just because it doesn't push your stats doesn't mean its a bad point to spend. In fact, if we just implement hand of Reckoning into classic, you would gladly spend 3 points to give it the 17% spellhit it needs to be reliable in raids

I agree that the double use of joj & it removing the currently active judgement from the boss is highly annoying. And i would prefer it if that wasn't happening. But fundamentally it works as a tank and does what paladin tanks need in raid.

Its a taunt with range on a class that famously lacks mobility and it is guaranteed to do its job. Yes it requires some foresight and it has an opportunity cost. But for all PLANNED tankswaps, it does its job. As for unplanned threatrips, the dps should be comfortable with consequences for that :D. As most of the bosses that don't require taunts for "tactical" reasons are just flatout immune to it anway.

Hand of reckoning in the form you linked also has to be the dumbest ability in the game. A taunt that deals damage. Guess how many ret paladins used that thing as a dmg spell? The answer is ALL of em.

What it comes down to is ultimately a discussion of class powerbudgets. No class can be amazing at everything, each class needs pronounced strengths & weaknesses. Paladin is the tank that deals the most damage, has the best AoE threat and offers the most raid utility out of all tanks. He is the only one who can cleanse debilitating debuffs off of himself and other raiders.

If we get warrior taunt, the warriors rightfully ask where their raidutility is to compensate. We got something that is entirely adequate for the job it needs to do. Paladins does still have problems as a tank. You are squishy as result of inadequate Crit/Crush protection, you are entirely ruined by manaburn & fear mechanics. But rather than using some powerbudget on those shortcomings, we want an 0 skillceiling taunt.

[Daedalus007]

Hand of reckoning in the form you linked also has to be the dumbest ability in the game. A taunt that deals damage. Guess how many ret paladins used that thing as a dmg spell? The answer is ALL of em.

When you ignore the thread title to go on a tirade about Paladin taunts for some reason. Schizo brain much?
The mere fact you said HoR is used by Ret Paladins in WotLK as a 'damage' spell is kinda laughable. You have no clue what you're talking about. Ranged pulls for Ret (soloing) are usually done with Exorcism instead since it works on all mobs in that expansion. In dungeons, Ret almost-never uses HoR unless pulling a mob off the healer in an emergency (which is rare as tank usually takes care of it).

You're talking out of your ass and you're making shit up and you've just been shifting the thread topic (and goalposts) for some time now. You've said your piece and it has been thrown in the dumpster where it belongs. I've dismissed and refuted every stupid excuse and BS nonsense that you and other pally-haters have used; ya'll have nothing better to do on a Sat night other than shitposting on the forums. Take a shower and go outside to enjoy life.

[Atreidon]

[...]

Also can you explain how they are throttled via judgement mechanics?

Do you think tying taunt to JoJ was a great idea? That is the most pure form of throttling imaginable.

We are getting super off topic, but i guess the blessings are discussed ad nauseum.

[...]

I got to taunt since i was just answering another players remarks about it. And if you dont stop throwing personal insults rather than reading the damn threat properly & controbuting something worthwile to it, i will consider ignore + report.

If you are instead interested in a fruitful discussion:
Hand of reckoning like every taunt was off the global cooldown. That means if you dont care about ripping threat, thats a free damage button.

When the skill first came out, plenty of Retpaladins just saw it deals damage and used it whenever they could.

You've said your piece and it has been thrown in the dumpster where it belongs. I've dismissed and refuted every stupid excuse and BS nonsense that you and other pally-haters have used

You haven't refuted anyting, you threw a temper tantrum at everyone with a differing opinion. You have not even come forth with an a graspable reasoning why 15 min palablessings are insufficient. Paladin is literally spending less time combined buffing & drinking afterwards than any other buffclass.

You are on a forum, a place to discuss & exchange ideas. If you want an echochamber instead, may i suggest you join a political party of your choosing instead?

[Werefox]

I got to taunt since i was just answering another players remaeks about it.

Our pottymouth friend probably has me on ignore for quite some time. He is surprisingly fragile for somebody as eager to throw insults around.

[Ravenstone]

Also Glyph of Reckoning existed and removed the taunt from HoR. Truly an awful implementation.

I don't know why anyone bothers engaging Daedalus for so long, he isn't here to try to understand others, hes just here to 'win' arguments.