I can't imagine a paladin finding a shaman imba

[987004590]

Please tell me which classes think shamans are almost unbeatable in 1v1 battles, and which classes think paladins are almost unbeatable?

[Atreidon]

As a rule of thumb, paladin beats classes that cant effectively kite him. Warriors, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, Feral Druid all have a tough time when competing paladin in melee combat.

All the classes with high magic damage burst fare better against him.
Think warlock mage and ele shaman.

Special notes for hunters & shadowpriests. Hunters can indefinitely kite paladin and eventually drain his mana & beat him that way.
Shadowpriest meanwhile has a decent protection from pally burst thanks to silence, shield & shadowforms physical dmg reduction.

Shaman on the other hand usually plays elemental. For him classes with strong interrupts or silences are a pain to deal with.
Rogue, Warrior & Warlock all can all fit that bill
Mage similarly has good odds if he lands his counterspell. But is otherwise quite vulnerable himself.
Meanwhile classes without much cc struggle. Druids, Paladins & Priests often cant deal with shamans offensive momentum.

Of course, different scenarios change the winrate of certain matchups considerably. If you get to freecast, shamans beat most classes, and paladin fares much better when he starts the encounter mounted or in melee range.
Some matches are more autowin than others, thats just the general trends i have observed

Both classes are very strong for their own reasons & have their exploitable weaknesses.

In paladins case, there is however also a bug with holy strike that lets it apply % based dmg bonuses such as berserking twice. That has propagated a myth that paladins can oneshot everyone and everything. Which is only true when having a berserking buff. (And man i REALLY hope this gets rectified with the next classchanges)

[987004590]

As a rule of thumb, paladin beats classes that cant effectively kite him. Warriors, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, Feral Druid all have a tough time when competing paladin in melee combat.

All the classes with high magic damage burst fare better against him.
Think warlock mage and ele shaman.

Special notes for hunters & shadowpriests. Hunters can indefinitely kite paladin and eventually drain his mana & beat him that way.
Shadowpriest meanwhile has a decent protection from pally burst thanks to silence, shield & shadowforms physical dmg reduction.

Shaman on the other hand usually plays elemental. For him classes with strong interrupts or silences are a pain to deal with.
Rogue, Warrior & Warlock all can all fit that bill
Mage similarly has good odds if he lands his counterspell. But is otherwise quite vulnerable himself.
Meanwhile classes without much cc struggle. Druids, Paladins & Priests often cant deal with shamans offensive momentum.

Of course, different scenarios change the winrate of certain matchups considerably. If you get to freecast, shamans beat most classes, and paladin fares much better when he starts the encounter mounted or in melee range.
Some matches are more autowin than others, thats just the general trends i have observed

Both classes are very strong for their own reasons & have their exploitable weaknesses.

In paladins case, there is however also a bug with holy strike that lets it apply % based dmg bonuses such as berserking twice. That has propagated a myth that paladins can oneshot everyone and everything. Which is only true when having a berserking buff. (And man i REALLY hope this gets rectified with the next classchanges)

Although you answered very seriously, it made my question ambiguous, perhaps this is my fault, I should not have posted this topic in the Paladin section. I wanted to ask not from the perspective of a Paladin, but for players of various classes to answer this question. You can represent the Paladin to answer whether it is almost impossible to defeat an ele Shaman in a 1v1 fight. Replies for other classes should come from other players.

[Hdliebtwo]

If you don't want the perspective of a paladin, maybe
1) don't post in the Paladin section of the forum
2) and change the title: I can't imagine a paladin finding a shaman imba
It will clear up all the confusion.

[Zulnam]

When I was maining paladin i had little trouble fighting enhancement shamans that took me up toe to toe. Rarely did I lose due to windfury RNG triple-whammy (proc-hit-crit).

Elemental however is a completely different story.

I remember this one shaman, Jaguar, that I kept encountering in AV in 1v1 situations. He beat me every time but it was damn close. I remember once I almost had him, but my ultra-imba Holy Strike hit like a wet noodle. RIP.

So I think ret vs elemental is quite balanced and usually a gear/skill issue. Enhancement is a different story however.
Just my experience.

[Atreidon]

The matchup ele vs pally is shaman favored.
But i dont think the term imba applies. Both parties have and do still beat one another on a regular basis.

Its a very polarizing matchup no doubt. (Either the shaman gets a crit combo and the pala is dead or the pala prevents the shaman from casting with burst, stun or bubble and wins)
Thats why engagement range matters so much. If you are both on foot at range when the fight starts, shaman dropping grounding + casting his combo is often enough before the pala can even get into range.
If he gets half decent critluck you wont survive that.

On the other hand if you manage to jump him from mount, you can crusaderstrike down the grounding and prevent him from casting with hammer & repentence. Shaman can still win from here, but with some critluck on the paladins part its winnable for paladin too.

[Geojak]

Elemental shamans are imba, there you have it

[987004590]

If you don't want the perspective of a paladin, maybe
1) don't post in the Paladin section of the forum
2) and change the title: I can't imagine a paladin finding a shaman imba
It will clear up all the confusion.

I just don't want a paladin to talk from his perspective about how a shaman feels facing a paladin, or how other classes feel facing a shaman, a paladin should describe how he feels facing other classes.

[987004590]

The matchup ele vs pally is shaman favored.
But i dont think the term imba applies. Both parties have and do still beat one another on a regular basis.

Its a very polarizing matchup no doubt. (Either the shaman gets a crit combo and the pala is dead or the pala prevents the shaman from casting with burst, stun or bubble and wins)
Thats why engagement range matters so much. If you are both on foot at range when the fight starts, shaman dropping grounding + casting his combo is often enough before the pala can even get into range.
If he gets half decent critluck you wont survive that.

On the other hand if you manage to jump him from mount, you can crusaderstrike down the grounding and prevent him from casting with hammer & repentence. Shaman can still win from here, but with some critluck on the paladins part its winnable for paladin too.

One obvious thing is that no class thinks shamans are almost impossible to defeat (maybe Druids do, I've never been afraid of Druids, but I don't know what Druids think of shamans), the question now is whether any class thinks paladins are almost unbeatable, and if there are too many classes that think a class is almost unbeatable, there must be something wrong with this class.

[Atreidon]

Yes, whats wrong with this class is holy strike doubledipping on % dmg increases.
With berserking active you get a +69% dmg buff on an ability that can crit for 2.5k in good gear baseline.

Plenty of people have complained about paladin being imba in the forums ever since the release of holystrike due to that shittily coded interaction (the way it works, the physical dmg of your swing gets amplified, and since its then transformed into holy dmg it applies it again)

That does not matter except exactly in pvp where berserking is quite a commonly used powerup (especially by paladins who know about it)
That interaction has to go, its uncompetetive and it makes paladins appear as a bigger problem than they actually are

But it has to be said, paladin have always been a class that blindsided people with how powerful it was offensively. You'll find plenty of people being bewildered about getting burt by paladins over the years because the class has very unintuitive mechanics to where most paladins over the years did just perform significantly under the classes offensive potential.

As much as holy strike & better scaling on sor&holy shock has been a boon for paladins, we got a nerfed reckoning & soc is no longer reachable for shockoboy, arguably nerfing these traditionally powerful paladin specs

[Borefficz]

As a rule of thumb, paladin beats classes that cant effectively kite him. Warriors, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, Feral Druid all have a tough time when competing paladin in melee combat.

All the classes with high magic damage burst fare better against him.
Think warlock mage and ele shaman.

Special notes for hunters & shadowpriests. Hunters can indefinitely kite paladin and eventually drain his mana & beat him that way.
Shadowpriest meanwhile has a decent protection from pally burst thanks to silence, shield & shadowforms physical dmg reduction.

Shaman on the other hand usually plays elemental. For him classes with strong interrupts or silences are a pain to deal with.
Rogue, Warrior & Warlock all can all fit that bill
Mage similarly has good odds if he lands his counterspell. But is otherwise quite vulnerable himself.
Meanwhile classes without much cc struggle. Druids, Paladins & Priests often cant deal with shamans offensive momentum.

Of course, different scenarios change the winrate of certain matchups considerably. If you get to freecast, shamans beat most classes, and paladin fares much better when he starts the encounter mounted or in melee range.
Some matches are more autowin than others, thats just the general trends i have observed

Both classes are very strong for their own reasons & have their exploitable weaknesses.

In paladins case, there is however also a bug with holy strike that lets it apply % based dmg bonuses such as berserking twice. That has propagated a myth that paladins can oneshot everyone and everything. Which is only true when having a berserking buff. (And man i REALLY hope this gets rectified with the next classchanges)

If a hunter is able to mana drain a paladin, that's a skill issue of the paladin. Viper Sting costs the hunter a much higher % of his mana than it costs the paladin to remove it. If anyone is going to be OOM in such scenario it's the hunter. The only benefit of Viper Sting is forcing the paladin to either waste a GCD to remove it (the hunter also wastes a GCD to apply it though), or lose extra 200 mana. The kiting argument only applies to duels mostly, you can only dream of popping Cheetah for any considerable amount of time in PvP against players that are any good (and again it's a GCD you need to spend). Also the lack of mobility on the paladin's end will be compensated with his teammates' toolkits.

[Atreidon]

Ofc geography of the battlefield matters, and so does interference of other players, but thats fruitless when discussing 1v1 performance.

Paladin cleansing viper sting might sound like a win for the paladin, until you realize viper sting rank 1 exists. The pala can either cleanse it for 200ish mana or let it tick to loose 600. Hunter meanwhile pays 130 mana.

If the people playing dont know what they are doing, paladin as a class for the handycapped is at an adventage. But for my analysis i was expecting the participating classes to actually know what they were doing

[Borefficz]

Ofc geography of the battlefield matters, and so does interference of other players, but thats fruitless when discussing 1v1 performance.

Paladin cleansing viper sting might sound like a win for the paladin, until you realize viper sting rank 1 exists. The pala can either cleanse it for 200ish mana or let it tick to loose 600. Hunter meanwhile pays 130 mana.

If the people playing dont know what they are doing, paladin as a class for the handycapped is at an adventage. But for my analysis i was expecting the participating classes to actually know what they were doing

200ish mana? or let it tick to "loose" 600? Where are you getting these numbers from? Because both are wildly inaccurate.
Cleanse has a base cost of 120 mana at 60, and a single tick of Viper Sting drains 277 mana.

[Atreidon]

Cant confirm the cleanse right now not near a wow client, so might have missremembered a number there.

but vipersting numbers are for rank 1, not rank 3

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=3034

If the paladin uses dispell, you use r1 to keep the pressure on his manapool up by downranking. He still has to dispell it