1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Bjorn88
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Bjorn88 » Mon May 13, 2024 8:50 pm

Looking at the WSG and AB item updates, I still find them underwhelming. As an elemental shaman with tier2, I doubt I will swap any of my setpieces for those. I hope the AB dagger will get some love though, atleast make it competitive with AQ20 maces.

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Zvyrhol
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Zvyrhol » Mon May 13, 2024 8:58 pm

I'm afraid these weak buffs of AB and WSG gear are nothing compared with gear that will come in new Karazhan raid.
The devil is in the detail.
viewtopic.php?t=13520
viewtopic.php?t=14041

Gnarbrok
Posts: 18

Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Gnarbrok » Tue May 14, 2024 4:56 pm

You might consider changing some of the stats on Abyssal sets from the silithus summons - a lot of the pieces have the wrong kind of crit on them (e.g. physical crit for a caster item).

Pretty quick and easy change with a lot of payoff in early gearing!

Rostovwow
Posts: 4

Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Rostovwow » Sun May 19, 2024 3:35 am

Why Defiler's Mail Pauldrons added Spellpower but Highlander's Lamellar Spaulders didn't?
Shaman can heal,can't pal act as healer?

Rostovwow
Posts: 4

Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Rostovwow » Sun May 19, 2024 3:38 am

Suggestion:
others classes can obtain weapon in BGs,
but why hunter can't ?
WSG and Arathi's rep reward weapon is useless for Hunter!
so if hunter want a good weapon, their only choose is going to MC and obtain
Rhok'delar, Longbow of the Ancient Keepers?

Brockers
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Brockers » Wed May 22, 2024 4:00 pm

The nerf to Breath of Solnius seems utterly targetted to shamans, both of them coming out at the same time just immediately tanks the want for that item and makes it near useless.

Ayesha
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Ayesha » Wed May 22, 2024 4:23 pm

Breath of solnius was a huge buff to shamand and shamans only. Some shamans reported that it was active pretty much all the time during the fight.

Compare 45 seconds to the priest’s ZG trinket that has a 3 min cd and the scroll of blinding light for paladins that has a 1,5 min cd while both of them don’t provide any passive boosts to healing.

Nerfing the trinket is a way to even its effect on every healing class.

Brockers
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Brockers » Wed May 22, 2024 4:42 pm

Apples to oranges, and shamans weren't the only ones to get the trinket where class specific ones, y'guessed it, only able to get the class ones. Spoken to a few paladins that said they could proc it with flash then switch to holy for instance, to refute the point of it being shaman only. Yeah it was big for a shaman because of the chain heal proc, but double-nerfing it from the get go makes it near useless. 45 second fight getting it off once when you might not want it, or an on use for the oh-shit situation?

Ap0x
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Ap0x » Wed May 22, 2024 5:53 pm

Ayesha wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 4:23 pm
Breath of solnius was a huge buff to shamand and shamans only. Some shamans reported that it was active pretty much all the time during the fight.

Compare 45 seconds to the priest’s ZG trinket that has a 3 min cd and the scroll of blinding light for paladins that has a 1,5 min cd while both of them don’t provide any passive boosts to healing.

Nerfing the trinket is a way to even its effect on every healing class.
Every healing class benefits from Breath of Solnius. Some more so than others. That's a natural part of the game. It isn't necessary to standardize every item.

I wouldn't compare ZG/BWL-level trinkets to ES-hardmode loot. As difficulty increases, the item should be more rewarding.

Adding an internal cooldown would reduce the potency of the trinket, but seems reasonable. Nerfing the multi-target application is overkill.
Last edited by Ap0x on Wed May 22, 2024 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Markius219
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Markius219 » Wed May 22, 2024 5:57 pm

Breath of Solnius makes the shaman competitive in raid, I don't see any harm in the item fitting but it seems excessive in this specific case. I hope and pray that the developers read this and reconsider the announced parameters.

It's a double nerf to a class that has memesspecs to raid

Ayesha
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Ayesha » Wed May 22, 2024 8:12 pm

Ap0x wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 5:53 pm
Ayesha wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 4:23 pm
Breath of solnius was a huge buff to shamand and shamans only. Some shamans reported that it was active pretty much all the time during the fight.

Compare 45 seconds to the priest’s ZG trinket that has a 3 min cd and the scroll of blinding light for paladins that has a 1,5 min cd while both of them don’t provide any passive boosts to healing.

Nerfing the trinket is a way to even its effect on every healing class.
Every healing class benefits from Breath of Solnius. Some more so than others. That's a natural part of the game. It isn't necessary to standardize every item.

I wouldn't compare ZG/BWL-level trinkets to ES-hardmode loot. As difficulty increases, the item should be more rewarding.

Adding an internal cooldown would reduce the potency of the trinket, but seems reasonable. Nerfing the multi-target application is overkill.
Priest ZG trinket - 15 seconds once per fight; no healing boost.
Breath of Solnius - during the whole fight non stop; +30 healing.

I don't see how that is a smooth progression from one level of difficulty to another.

Without the multi-target application this item is going to be active more or less the same time for every class compared to be always active for shaman. How is that not reasonable? If you keep the multi-target application, thats just the shaman buff.

Rowrow213
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Rowrow213 » Wed May 22, 2024 10:31 pm

Great way to shit on resto shamans and get less people to do your bad raid.

O6scur3
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by O6scur3 » Wed May 22, 2024 10:39 pm

Balance profs, heal/tank.
Vanilla is too raw for a full, varied game.
Professions? Alch/Ing, and that's all.
Tanks? War only, heal? Priest.
It's sickening to see the same thing every day, the same thing in every dungeon,
the same tanks, the same healers. All people have the same professions.
Why even play a game in which everything is already predetermined?
Let there be new exclusive items for various crafting professions,
so that people will be motivated to level them up.
I am genuinely tired of Vanilla because of its monotony and monotony.
it can drive you crazy and you are the only ones who can change it.
And balance pets, the spider is completely useless, just like bats.

Codymb24
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Codymb24 » Thu May 23, 2024 1:35 am

Neocapitalismus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm
Dragunovi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 12:21 am
Resillience is seeing a complete rework. Instead of reducing your chance to be critically struck, it will instead reduce the damage of critical strikes and damage over time effects on you, making it much more oriented for PvP combat, as it was mostly utilized by PvE tanks to get rid of critical strikes from bosses.
Why change it? This is a pve rp game. People do bgs for the pve equipment. The dying pvp server with 100 pop won't care about this and the aq40/naxxx geared pvp'er have better gear. Instead of removing 1% crit chance reduction, just add 3% crit dmg reduction to new and other items. All this will do is just fuck over new tanks that dont have end game gear.
If you don't pvp why do you care so much?

Calli
Posts: 280

Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Calli » Thu May 23, 2024 7:36 am

Codymb24 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 1:35 am
Neocapitalismus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 2:52 pm
Dragunovi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 12:21 am
Resillience is seeing a complete rework. Instead of reducing your chance to be critically struck, it will instead reduce the damage of critical strikes and damage over time effects on you, making it much more oriented for PvP combat, as it was mostly utilized by PvE tanks to get rid of critical strikes from bosses.
Why change it? This is a pve rp game. People do bgs for the pve equipment. The dying pvp server with 100 pop won't care about this and the aq40/naxxx geared pvp'er have better gear. Instead of removing 1% crit chance reduction, just add 3% crit dmg reduction to new and other items. All this will do is just fuck over new tanks that dont have end game gear.
If you don't pvp why do you care so much?
Because it is a pve nerf. Many items with resilience is available as raid loot. It helps tanks to be crit immune without stacking defense everywhere and do some damage and threat.

Yggd
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Yggd » Thu May 23, 2024 2:09 pm

Dragunovi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 12:21 am
  • Breath of Solnius: Now has a 15 second internal cooldown, and multi-target heals only count as one instance of healing in terms of proc chance.
  • Warmth of Forgiveness: Increased mana granted on use from 500 to 700.
Opinion of a healer (shaman) here:

1. Breath of Solnius is by far our best trinket. If ES is supposed to be on par with BWL/AQ gear, then you shouldn't nerf it to be barely better than Jed's trinket from UBRS. That proc rate still bad*. Nerf it so that can't proc off the bounces, that's fine. But don't put an internal cooldown on it at all. The trinket becomes fully trivial, and then at this point you're looking at all healers now needing the same 2 trinkets in order to be full BiS: Rejuv Gem and Eye of the Dead

2. If you want to make Warmth an actual useable item, because it's basically a tiny bit better than Shard of the Scale right now, you may want to add some +healing on it (from a healer POV). If Rejuv Gem has very high +heal and fair mp5, then make Warmth have fair +healing and very high mp5 (with on-use effect). Something like +50 healing on it could definitely make it an option for some healers and would diversify itemization. Nordranaar Teas are extremely strong, so mp5 and on-use mana gain are less of a need, so yeah, the +heal on Warmth would need to be pretty high to make it valuable.

*Edit, I noticed you lowered rom 45s to 15s internal cooldown but it still makes the trinket weak considering there's only a 5% chance to proc altogether. Make it a 20% chance to proc to compensate, at the very least

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Kharkov72
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Kharkov72 » Fri May 24, 2024 3:04 am

warmth might go hard if we get the forbidden rank 4 chain heal, to be fair.
as for Breath of Solnius, fixing the multi-chance procrate of chain heal is good, still a solid trinket, but the internal cd is probably overkill? shouldn't need it, really
Takatunda, GM of <AFK 5 Minutes>

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Chudman123
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Chudman123 » Fri May 24, 2024 4:47 am

AB 4 piece for a plate user still has ZERO hit......

This hard constrains all other gear besides the AB set.


Also mindfang got 40 armor, 10sp and what like 7 sta? Meanwhile you can buy a 1-h sword almost that good and AQ20 weap is 2x as good??? super lame imo with the power creep that will come (AND NAXX IS ALREADY OP in PvP)


You all should really offer like an AB/WSG/BR item upgrade path that takes a really long time and a ton of rep for those who love to play those game modes and don't look forward to these exceptionally minor buffs when NAXX already kills this and NAXX T3.5/T4 inc.


These AB/WSG buffs are really not exciting at all when rank gear and AQ40/NAXX are so much better....very sad I can't believe AB plate got no hit buffs...I'm sure there are plenty of other armor class item issues but for plate BWL alt tier will still be a bunch better than this Rep gear which is quite sad!!!
-Panfusion (60 ele/resto shammy)

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Chudman123
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Chudman123 » Fri May 24, 2024 6:14 am

Deleted as I was ignorant.
-Panfusion (60 ele/resto shammy)

Heh86
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Heh86 » Fri May 24, 2024 1:23 pm

you can look at [Dream's Herald] - be nice to put here some stamina to make that sword more atractive for everyone.
and change from Conjured item to -> crafted item -> so can be put in auction house. hiding_smth_turtle_head

Ap0x
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Ap0x » Fri May 24, 2024 7:31 pm

Yggd wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 2:09 pm
Dragunovi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 12:21 am
  • Breath of Solnius: Now has a 15 second internal cooldown, and multi-target heals only count as one instance of healing in terms of proc chance.
  • Warmth of Forgiveness: Increased mana granted on use from 500 to 700.
Opinion of a healer (shaman) here:

1. Breath of Solnius is by far our best trinket. If ES is supposed to be on par with BWL/AQ gear, then you shouldn't nerf it to be barely better than Jed's trinket from UBRS. That proc rate still bad*. Nerf it so that can't proc off the bounces, that's fine. But don't put an internal cooldown on it at all. The trinket becomes fully trivial, and then at this point you're looking at all healers now needing the same 2 trinkets in order to be full BiS: Rejuv Gem and Eye of the Dead

2. If you want to make Warmth an actual useable item, because it's basically a tiny bit better than Shard of the Scale right now, you may want to add some +healing on it (from a healer POV). If Rejuv Gem has very high +heal and fair mp5, then make Warmth have fair +healing and very high mp5 (with on-use effect). Something like +50 healing on it could definitely make it an option for some healers and would diversify itemization. Nordranaar Teas are extremely strong, so mp5 and on-use mana gain are less of a need, so yeah, the +heal on Warmth would need to be pretty high to make it valuable.

*Edit, I noticed you lowered rom 45s to 15s internal cooldown but it still makes the trinket weak considering there's only a 5% chance to proc altogether. Make it a 20% chance to proc to compensate, at the very least
Good points.

Regarding Breath of Solnius, it should be either an internal cooldown or no multi-proc mechanic, not both simultaneously.

Markius219
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Markius219 » Fri May 24, 2024 8:24 pm

Ap0x wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 7:31 pm
Yggd wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 2:09 pm
Dragunovi wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 12:21 am
  • Breath of Solnius: Now has a 15 second internal cooldown, and multi-target heals only count as one instance of healing in terms of proc chance.
  • Warmth of Forgiveness: Increased mana granted on use from 500 to 700.
Opinion of a healer (shaman) here:

1. Breath of Solnius is by far our best trinket. If ES is supposed to be on par with BWL/AQ gear, then you shouldn't nerf it to be barely better than Jed's trinket from UBRS. That proc rate still bad*. Nerf it so that can't proc off the bounces, that's fine. But don't put an internal cooldown on it at all. The trinket becomes fully trivial, and then at this point you're looking at all healers now needing the same 2 trinkets in order to be full BiS: Rejuv Gem and Eye of the Dead

2. If you want to make Warmth an actual useable item, because it's basically a tiny bit better than Shard of the Scale right now, you may want to add some +healing on it (from a healer POV). If Rejuv Gem has very high +heal and fair mp5, then make Warmth have fair +healing and very high mp5 (with on-use effect). Something like +50 healing on it could definitely make it an option for some healers and would diversify itemization. Nordranaar Teas are extremely strong, so mp5 and on-use mana gain are less of a need, so yeah, the +heal on Warmth would need to be pretty high to make it valuable.

*Edit, I noticed you lowered rom 45s to 15s internal cooldown but it still makes the trinket weak considering there's only a 5% chance to proc altogether. Make it a 20% chance to proc to compensate, at the very least
Good points.

Regarding Breath of Solnius, it should be either an internal cooldown or no multi-proc mechanic, not both simultaneously.
Everything very correct. Do the developers want 3 bis heal trinkets on the server or just 2? If they want 2, why does ES's hardoce mode exist for a heal? Hardcore mode that by the way very few guilds manage to do

For me the key to the item is to maintain multi heal. Putting 15 sec CD compensates for the mechanics of the object

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Sholozavr
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Sholozavr » Sun May 26, 2024 6:41 am

Regarding Breath of Solnius, it should be either an internal cooldown or no multi-proc mechanic, not both simultaneously.
Agreed, the internal coodlown is an overkill, as a druid I don't feel like the PPM is absurdly high, it frequently may not proc once for the entire boss fight. If this internal cooldown remains, then perhaps the proc chance must be adjusted so that the trinket would work similarly to those from later expansions.

I mean the internal cooldown mechanic was introduced by Blizzard in order for trinkets to have a predictable PPM. It won't work well with vanilla style low proc chance trinkets.

UPD: Or perhaps increase the amount of +healing so that the trinket remains a highly desired one. From the healer perspective, the ES hardmode fight is comparable difficultywise to those from Naxx, so there's no reason for huge nerfs. Again, the multiproc nerf is well enough to address the 'shaman problem'.
Last edited by Sholozavr on Mon May 27, 2024 11:58 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Sholozavr
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Sholozavr » Sun May 26, 2024 7:33 am

Nordranaar Teas are extremely strong, so mp5 and on-use mana gain are less of a need, so yeah, the +heal on Warmth would need to be pretty high to make it valuable.
This is exactly what I wanted to say regarding WoF. This trinket wasn't a best in slot option even during the slow fights of OG vanilla. Definitely needs at least 50 +healing instead of those 10mp/5.

Another item from the past I'd like to point out is the druid idol from Razuvious. My suggestion is reworking it to enable the regrowth spammer playstyle. For example it might either increase the regrowth crit chance to compensate for non-existing world buffs, or replenish some mana on crit regrowths, similarly to the Illumination paladin talent.

Templar85
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Templar85 » Sun May 26, 2024 3:07 pm

New Regrowth Idol idea: Each critical Regrowth increases its healing power by 3% and lowering mana cost by 5% Stack up to maximum 4 times. Effects lost on non critical Regrowth cast.

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Dragunovi
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Dragunovi » Fri May 31, 2024 7:12 pm

Changelog updated.
Sometimes makes items, feel free to query on Discord for questions!

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Elisleris
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Elisleris » Fri May 31, 2024 9:04 pm

New Royal Seals of Eldre'thalas - is possible to restore deleted seal or complete quest one more time? P.S. Gaston in Ratchet do not offer any iitem for me

Springboards
Posts: 102

Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Springboards » Fri May 31, 2024 11:00 pm

what is the reason for nerfing verdant eye neck? Its already lackluster compared to ragnaros neck and the nerf makes it even worse

Atreidon
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Atreidon » Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:43 pm

Springboards wrote:
Fri May 31, 2024 11:00 pm
what is the reason for nerfing verdant eye neck? Its already lackluster compared to ragnaros neck and the nerf makes it even worse
On any spec that values mana/has mana limitations, verdant eye is stronger. The team has stated earlier that meditation as a stat is a sleeper.

Verdant eye, even without stamina is still a attractive choice for many casterclasses. Especially Boomkins & Shadowpriests still like it very much.

Atreidon
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Atreidon » Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:53 pm

Dragunovi wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 5:10 pm
Healingrain wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 2:44 pm
I just don't get the meditation adjustments at all. Mp5 has been considered over-budgeted and weak on gear in Vanilla for a long time, even for healers. A custom alternative is made that isn't much better, same kind of gear that emphasizes other stats remains dominant, and now it's nerfed?

In what insane universe did anyone think an item like Gloves of Rapid Evolution needed a NERF?
We've done the calculations on this stat and it can surpass MP5 in close to pre-BiS gear and even surpass it with anything higher and even scaling with the Human racial, its been a sleeper stat all this time and most people haven't noticed. Even after this change we expect for it to be especially powerful due to it being a passive mana regeneration stat with scaling.
I'm a bit concerned to see some very weak / niche items such as green dragonscale & rapid evolution being nerfed. While meditation is a extremely powerful stat, it derives its absurd potential from stacking multiple sources of it with high spirit. Each item compounding the others. So id question if the stat shouldn't rather have a deminishing return to disincentivizing stacking it to ridiculous levels.

One way to do so would be to change it to be a percentage of the still blocked mana regeneration. e.g. "Allows 5% of your manaregeneration supressed by spellcasting to continue" (e.g. the second piece would only grant you further 4.75% manaregen, (5% of the 95% manaregeneration still supressed etc.))

Mana is also a stat that is incredibly easy to get on turtle thanks to a plethora of consumables & classbuffs. I'd hate to see meditation go the way of armorpen where its just nummerically too weak. As its only problematic when stacked to its extreme. Rather than just an individual item with meditation

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Daedalus007
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Daedalus007 » Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:16 pm

Atreidon wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:53 pm
*snip*
Put hard caps on both meditation and armor penetration then buff both these stats to be useful side-options in the game without extreme stacking. Easy fix and it leaves up itemization points to use towards other more useful stats.

Atreidon
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Atreidon » Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:26 am

Daedalus007 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:16 pm
Put hard caps on both meditation and armor penetration then buff both these stats to be useful side-options in the game without extreme stacking. Easy fix and it leaves up itemization points to use towards other more useful stats.
Then you just end up with the best 1-2 meditation items being mandatory and the weaker ones only see use as a stopgap measure scared_turtle

Astrallizard
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Astrallizard » Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:12 am

I hope that one day we get a rework of some of the BWL class trinkets. Maybe a (weaker) set bonus from earlier armor sets could be added on top to the niche trinkets, or just some basic stats.

Another idea would be to make those trinkets part of the T2 sets, but that could potentially result in power creep.

Zltx4444
Posts: 1

Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Zltx4444 » Wed Jun 05, 2024 1:57 am

Dreamsteel Mantle can No binding?just like Steel Plate Barbute。 it need 300
Forging and very expensive , drawing is Rare。

Bjorn88
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Re: 1.17.2 Preliminary Itemization Changelog

Post by Bjorn88 » Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:56 pm

"Band of Servitude: Spellpower increased from 23 to 27, Stamina reduced from 8 to 5, Intellect reduced from 9 to 5."

Devs take a reconsideration of this please. Straight up nerf, especially for pvp.

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