Rogue 2 simple but GREAT changes

[Bigbosc]

Good Morning! My name is Bigbosc and have been loving turtle wow so far. I do think that Rogues could use some slight changes to make Subtlety and Assassination a bit more viable for raiding however, and make them have more unique roles for a raid or party besides just doing damage. Right now the Rogue design in raids basically comes down to only doing damage. Distract is marginally helpful to a raid, and improved expose armor is used in some encounters. So Rogues stagnate into very limited talent diversity, and any changes to gear, talents etc that focus on damage changes could be dangerous to make, since it could upset PVP or PVE damage amounts.

With that in mind I suggest 2 new talents added to the bottom of the Sub and Assassin trees to give them a unique role in raid and party content, without touching PVP, or being related to the Rogue dealing more damage almost at all.

In the Sub Tree just add a single new talent next to the current 31 point.


While in stealth you target a tank, push this button, the tank gets a buff, if you do damage that threat goes to him.

It won't affect PVP whatso ever, and it gives a new role to rogues, helping the main tanks with threat, or other tanks with tank swaps during bosses. Tired of your tank resisting a taunt? Bring a sub rogue to the raid, vanish tricks the tank and ambush + backstab.

Being this deep in sub also means that you'll consider picking up premeditation which also requires stealth, so there is synergy there. Tying it to being in stealth also means it has synergy with the vanish cooldown talent in sub, and preparation, letting a rogue potentially do it 3 times during the start of an encounter.

Imagine a tank being able to change his build to be even more defensive, and deep protection tree, because you are bringing a sub rogue to help him hold threat.

An easy win for rogues and turtle wow in general I think. It's a simple effect that brings a unique role to the class, might make some players take a lower damage spec with more utility, and makes certain set bonuses and playstyles more appealing.

Hell it even works well with turtle wows Agitating Poison which causes more threat.

For the second change, Assassination needs help. The 31 point talent sucks, and turtle wow is already playing around with maybe a poison rogue being a thing.

Raids already bring a player with a sub par weapon that procs Nightfall. Just give assassin a new finishing move that causes 15% increased spell and poison damage for 2 seconds per combo point, with a 20 second cooldown.



Again, this has almost 0 PVP application, only really in a coordinated fight would you be able to use this alongside a team mate, and you would need to build 5 combo points, while being 31 in assassination.

Make the proc remove Nightfall weapon proc so they don't stack. And now going deep assassination has good raid wide benefits. In addition a raid doesn't have to have a player stuck using Nightfall for all content.

Would be made even better if a poison focused rogue became more possible through set changes etc.

Thanks for reading. Turtle wow is the best version of wow! Keep up the good work!

[Bigbosc]

I'd like to say currently I don't think its even the raid leaders fault that they often don't want many rogues in the raid. We offer almost nothing to a raid but damage, and compared to other classes our damage isn't as good.
So a simple fix, give us some new unique roles and things we could bring to a raid.

[Bigbosc]

Thinking on it even more, I kind of realize just how shit rogues are in terms of what they do for a raid.

Rogue: DPS, Interupt, Imp Expose Armor (sometimes used), Distract (sometimes marginally helpful) Not a single buff given, and debuffs are very limited in application and use. Good threat management I suppose? Meme tank on some encounters post nerf?

Warrior, better DPS, multiple interupts, battle shout, demo shout, thunderclap, tanking, better mobility.

Shaman, Healing, BIS buffs, tremor totem, ranged damage, melee damage, rez, ankh, wipe protection, interupt, can even tank better than rogue in most cases. Dispel.

Priest, Healing, Damage, shadow vulnerability, shadow resist, fort, spirit, fear break (even if its a bit shit in holy), shields, mana burn on some encounters, mind control on some encounters, dispel.

Paladin Healing, BIS Buffs, bubbles used on many pulls, wipe protection and even used DI on some encounters to cheat mechanics (maxenna), melee damage, AOE tanking, MUCH better tank than rogue meme tank. Dispels, judgements

Hunters : Ranged DPS, BIS puller for the group, BIS threat management DPS, traps are decent CC and utility, especially compared to what rogues offer. True shot aura, wolf howl. Even some boss debuffs from gorilla and birds is possible.

Mages : Goated magic DPS, Frost and Fire and Arcane all viable for what they offer (ice block, imp blizzard, fire DPS, arcane brings great mana regen to a party) Int buff, dampen or amplify sometimes used, portals, teleport, blink, interupt is possible though not great, oranges, decurse, AOE god.

Warlock : Curses are all great for raids, summons are the most important time saver. Health stones, soul stones. Even pets are useful sometimes like blood pact on tank group etc. Great damage, and with Twow changes even dots are useful. Banish and fear see some use.

Druid : Decurse, Healing, Mark, tanking, melee or ranged DPS (much better than on classic), auras for all forms help their party. Faerie fire, growl, insect swarm, battle rez. So much utility available here. Dispell poison.

When it comes down to it, Rogues bring almost nothing helpful to a raid except damage. Compared to what other classes bring to help a raid, Rogues are kind of in a shit spot.

[Akos1896]

I'd def gives rogues the 'nature damage warlock curse' in the form of a poison they apply on the target. That'd be a huge utility boost.