nerf paladins dps alredy

[Calli]

How are the babies still crying about paladins?

Why don't we get rid of mages polymorph while we're at it since it's so unfair that they can sheep you and run away to never get caught. Literally can't even damage them, smh please reprot and remove OP class.

That's what you nitwits sound like crying all the time.

Mage rotation is very difficult and very hard to master, you have to be very intelligent to play efficiently as a mage. Also, you need a very special keyboard or controller to play. Any mistake you make in the sequence will cost you dearly.

[Frantsel]

Vanilla pvp is shit deal with it

Uninformed opinion.
There are tens of thousands of people chasing fresh pvp servers for that sweet 1-4 phase pvp.

I agree, vanilla pvp is actually pretty sweet. Original blizz balance was nice. Players never understood that some classes especially hybrids were never intended to do dps as a dps class. So private server devs changed it and broke the balance.

[Papire]

Why are paladins so op? Do devs play them or something?

Probably. Devs is definitely alliance players.

[Papire]

Paladin is simply more appealing to the masses, many ppl want to be templars and holy knight, less people want to be totem placing uglies, its not about power, its about appeal. Same for so many players playing warrior. Power doesnt influence demographic only for min maxers, for most players on RP server, appeal is the main reason you Pick a race / class

lol the census for WoW Classic shows 6% Shaman and 6% Paladin. Perfectly balanced (as all things should be).

Turtle WoW has 20% Paladins (and still 6% Shaman) specifically because of the absurd amount of buffs and broken custom abilities they were given.

Also its funny you whine about "instant totems" when Paladins were given that broken custom ability Crusader Strike which is practically tailor made to swifty and easily destroy totems.

Anyway its true Warrior is always a popular class because the class fantasy of a 'barbarian' or 'knight' is very popular... but it certainly helps that Warrior is overpowered in PVE.

People also think its great in PVP but they are mistaken (Warrior is trash in PVP). Doesnt matter tho the point is that people will generally choose what they believe to be (over)powerful.

No u don't understand, warrior is op too just like paladin, if he's skilled, got full engineering, bis pvp gear from raiding, best enchants possible and a healer with all the buffs from potion he can even kill pally in blues if pally play using one hand.

[Metavahn]

Nobody in vanilla wanted to be ret, or wanted a ret in their party once you got to endgame

They needed some kind of buff in private servers and classic+ servers for sure

Hybrids in vanilla were not just less damage than their pure counterparts, they were completely useless and provided no benefit at all over bringing a vastly superior pure, thats not what hybrids are suppose to be and even private server devs get that and brought them much more in-line with the pures

You also have it twisted thinking pures should have some kind of advantage over hybrids, pures are simple to play and dont require any extra gearsets to make viable like hybrids do, hybrids require much more effort and farming to fulfill all the roles given to them and are more complicated to play as pures (seal twisting, AP vs SP, seals/buffs managment)

If you want to be a simple minded warrior, dont expect to be more powerful than a paladin which is a warrior given godlike powers, these devs are pretty much the only ones to get that and finally made paladin feel like a real class and not a wheelchair that gives salv to the raid

[Geojak]

And I dont even say the problem is the damage, the problem is that paladin is a hybrid class that gets more dps than most damagedealers could dream of.

No. Literally the worst DPS in the game unless WF totem is present.

Damage dealers are normally squishy and have little survivability. Paladins have all of it.

Yeah, tell me how warriors and shamans are squishy or how rogues and mages have low survivability.

Todays bg: Holy shock crit 2700 vs a mage, 1800 noncrit.
Name me ANY class that does those numbers. As a rogue my highest eviscerate was 2500ish on a player. Those are 5 combopoints build up and spent.

I say, palas need to bleed a bit of survivability if they want the big dmg numbers. This is how EVERY game handles it. The higher the dmg, the lower the tankyness and vice versa. You cant have both, or it breaks the game.

Everyone laughs about paladins. Its a complete meme how broken they are.

And yes, rogues have some cds to survive, same as mages. Imagine those classes without them. I mean you dont even have to. Just watch those classes when their abilites are on cd. You just melt em and they cant do shit.

Palas, can switch to shield, heal. All this besides their cd, which are by FAR superior compared to mages or rogue.

A 2700 holy Schock crit is not possible. You would need more spell than possible with any gear in the game. I call bs

[Erhog]

A 2700 holy Schock crit is not possible. You would need more spell than possible with any gear in the game. I call bs

Fear has big eyes.

Well if you can manage to get around ~1100 spd and you will be with berserk+power infusion and you target under amplify magic - it's theoretically possible. 2.7k shock crit much easier to get on a shaman due to +100% crit and +20% nature damage class trinket.

[Frantsel]

No. Literally the worst DPS in the game unless WF totem is present.


Yeah, tell me how warriors and shamans are squishy or how rogues and mages have low survivability.

Todays bg: Holy shock crit 2700 vs a mage, 1800 noncrit.
Name me ANY class that does those numbers. As a rogue my highest eviscerate was 2500ish on a player. Those are 5 combopoints build up and spent.

I say, palas need to bleed a bit of survivability if they want the big dmg numbers. This is how EVERY game handles it. The higher the dmg, the lower the tankyness and vice versa. You cant have both, or it breaks the game.

Everyone laughs about paladins. Its a complete meme how broken they are.

And yes, rogues have some cds to survive, same as mages. Imagine those classes without them. I mean you dont even have to. Just watch those classes when their abilites are on cd. You just melt em and they cant do shit.

Palas, can switch to shield, heal. All this besides their cd, which are by FAR superior compared to mages or rogue.

A 2700 holy Schock crit is not possible. You would need more spell than possible with any gear in the game. I call bs

Dude I got oneshot COUNTLESS times by a pala with NO chance to do anything about it.
All my friends stopped playing on the pvp server and its hard to queue for any bg even on the pve server.

It is actually the worst pvp experience I ever had on a wow server so far.

Noone is doing duels. No world pvp. Little to no bgs.

[Valadorn]

Todays bg: Holy shock crit 2700 vs a mage, 1800 noncrit.
Name me ANY class that does those numbers. As a rogue my highest eviscerate was 2500ish on a player. Those are 5 combopoints build up and spent.

I say, palas need to bleed a bit of survivability if they want the big dmg numbers. This is how EVERY game handles it. The higher the dmg, the lower the tankyness and vice versa. You cant have both, or it breaks the game.

Everyone laughs about paladins. Its a complete meme how broken they are.

And yes, rogues have some cds to survive, same as mages. Imagine those classes without them. I mean you dont even have to. Just watch those classes when their abilites are on cd. You just melt em and they cant do shit.

Palas, can switch to shield, heal. All this besides their cd, which are by FAR superior compared to mages or rogue.

A 2700 holy Schock crit is not possible. You would need more spell than possible with any gear in the game. I call bs

Dude I got oneshot COUNTLESS times by a pala with NO chance to do anything about it.
All my friends stopped playing on the pvp server and its hard to queue for any bg even on the pve server.

It is actually the worst pvp experience I ever had on a wow server so far.

Noone is doing duels. No world pvp. Little to no bgs.

Hello, I got oneshot by shamans instant chain lightning + earthshock, I got one shot by instant pyroblast + firenlast, I got one shot by a warlock while being feared, I got over 1500 dmg crit from rogues, i got one shot by druids while rooted with starfire, I got hit by over 2k multishots, I got executed for 3k . . . So. Um . . . Yeah.

[Akos1896]

Palas indeed have 1 overtuned ability. I don't think that the whole class is broken, it is not. They are a below average power-level class with 1 weapon of mass destruction attached to them.
I doubt that TWOW every fixes how holy damage works in the game and because of that offensive holy spells should always be very limited. I want to see holy strike being changed to a mostly melee ability. Once done and the 'weapon of mass destruction' got removed, paladins could actually be buffed.
Current duality about how people regard paladins comes from this:
Overall pala is a support class and it is not outstanding at maintained damage dealing. Even after buffs, serious guilds don't bring DPS pala. Pala players know about these limitations (and others which the paladins have) and outrage when someone says nerf pala.
PVP players playing against pala see a plate guy in a bubble, who can barely be scratched, spamming huge damages which bypass armor and can't be resisted (again, the nature of holy magic in the game).
I think both sides have some truth. Paladin has (at least) 1 way overtuned ability which has to be nerfed but after that paladin DPS as a whole has to be buffed (not abusing holy damage though).

[Calli]

People cry and complain because they are not used to this when played in vanilla. Now paladins have the chance. I wonder why noone complain about shadowpriests.

[Frantsel]

A 2700 holy Schock crit is not possible. You would need more spell than possible with any gear in the game. I call bs

Dude I got oneshot COUNTLESS times by a pala with NO chance to do anything about it.
All my friends stopped playing on the pvp server and its hard to queue for any bg even on the pve server.

It is actually the worst pvp experience I ever had on a wow server so far.

Noone is doing duels. No world pvp. Little to no bgs.

Hello, I got oneshot by shamans instant chain lightning + earthshock, I got one shot by instant pyroblast + firenlast, I got one shot by a warlock while being feared, I got over 1500 dmg crit from rogues, i got one shot by druids while rooted with starfire, I got hit by over 2k multishots, I got executed for 3k . . . So. Um . . . Yeah.

I dont know how often I have to repeat myself and I am getting damn tired of it:

You cant have the cake AND eat it too.

You cant do dps AND be tanky. Thats against all balanceing. Especially if you have tools like the paladin.

Yes shamans can oneshot. But thats not the thing. Shamans are incredibly weak against stun and dps in general.

I am fucking TIRED of stupid discussions like this.

[Frantsel]

People cry and complain because they are not used to this when played in vanilla. Now paladins have the chance. I wonder why noone complain about shadowpriests.

Because shadowpriests are strong in the offense, but never as strong in the defense as a paladin.

Original wow was balanced VERY well. The original devs actually had an idea.

Modern devs just try to even all classes out. This is why balance breaks.

Paladins ALWAYS had a chance. They never needed to do as much dmg as a rogue.

Its just EXTREMELY poor gamedesign. It completely breaks pvp.

[Geojak]

Todays bg: Holy shock crit 2700 vs a mage, 1800 noncrit.
Name me ANY class that does those numbers. As a rogue my highest eviscerate was 2500ish on a player. Those are 5 combopoints build up and spent.

I say, palas need to bleed a bit of survivability if they want the big dmg numbers. This is how EVERY game handles it. The higher the dmg, the lower the tankyness and vice versa. You cant have both, or it breaks the game.

Everyone laughs about paladins. Its a complete meme how broken they are.

And yes, rogues have some cds to survive, same as mages. Imagine those classes without them. I mean you dont even have to. Just watch those classes when their abilites are on cd. You just melt em and they cant do shit.

Palas, can switch to shield, heal. All this besides their cd, which are by FAR superior compared to mages or rogue.

A 2700 holy Schock crit is not possible. You would need more spell than possible with any gear in the game. I call bs

Dude I got oneshot COUNTLESS times by a pala with NO chance to do anything about it.
All my friends stopped playing on the pvp server and its hard to queue for any bg even on the pve server.

It is actually the worst pvp experience I ever had on a wow server so far.

Noone is doing duels. No world pvp. Little to no bgs.

You were oneshot by holy strike, not holy shock. No point in getting angry, the devil is I nthe detail and claiming holy shock csn crit that high is just wrong

[Geojak]

People cry and complain because they are not used to this when played in vanilla. Now paladins have the chance. I wonder why noone complain about shadowpriests.

This exactly

[Geojak]

Dude I got oneshot COUNTLESS times by a pala with NO chance to do anything about it.
All my friends stopped playing on the pvp server and its hard to queue for any bg even on the pve server.

It is actually the worst pvp experience I ever had on a wow server so far.

Noone is doing duels. No world pvp. Little to no bgs.

Hello, I got oneshot by shamans instant chain lightning + earthshock, I got one shot by instant pyroblast + firenlast, I got one shot by a warlock while being feared, I got over 1500 dmg crit from rogues, i got one shot by druids while rooted with starfire, I got hit by over 2k multishots, I got executed for 3k . . . So. Um . . . Yeah.

I dont know how often I have to repeat myself and I am getting damn tired of it:

You cant have the cake AND eat it too.

You cant do dps AND be tanky. Thats against all balanceing. Especially if you have tools like the paladin.

Yes shamans can oneshot. But thats not the thing. Shamans are incredibly weak against stun and dps in general.

I am fucking TIRED of stupid discussions like this.

Shamans are waaaay more tank in pvp thanks to custom earth shield plus shield while still having Ligning+shock nukes. Play some arena my dude. Try to see the picture when bubble is on cd

[Biteyou]

I am sincerely afraid a developer will read this hot garbage of a topic and actually think one of you has a good idea

[Valadorn]

Dude I got oneshot COUNTLESS times by a pala with NO chance to do anything about it.
All my friends stopped playing on the pvp server and its hard to queue for any bg even on the pve server.

It is actually the worst pvp experience I ever had on a wow server so far.

Noone is doing duels. No world pvp. Little to no bgs.

Hello, I got oneshot by shamans instant chain lightning + earthshock, I got one shot by instant pyroblast + firenlast, I got one shot by a warlock while being feared, I got over 1500 dmg crit from rogues, i got one shot by druids while rooted with starfire, I got hit by over 2k multishots, I got executed for 3k . . . So. Um . . . Yeah.

I dont know how often I have to repeat myself and I am getting damn tired of it:

You cant have the cake AND eat it too.

You cant do dps AND be tanky. Thats against all balanceing. Especially if you have tools like the paladin.

Yes shamans can oneshot. But thats not the thing. Shamans are incredibly weak against stun and dps in general.

I am fucking TIRED of stupid discussions like this.

Paladins are weak to stun and dps in general too, armor does nothing against magic dmg, having one defensive cooldown every 5 mins doesnt really warrant that class to do 0dmg.

Mages are tanky with all their shields and cc and blocks.
Priests are tanky with their little bubble that negates warrior rage generation + low cooldowm aoe fear.
Warlocks are tanky with their double voidwalker shield and fear / succubus spam.
Rogues are tanky with evasion and the new parry ability
Druids are tanky in bear and owl forms
Warriors are tanky and can deal massive dmg while also having gap closers and slow and intrerupt
Hunters are amazing at kiting and you wont catch a good hunter
Shamans are just as tanky with shield and mail and 4 instant totems + incredible burst and 1200damage intrerupt every 5 seconds

I am sorry to inform you, but paladin used to be good only to heal while in bubble and die. So being upset that the class you used as a bunching Bag can now hit back is not fair, since all other classes can do it.

I am tired of ppl complaining that alliance needs a nerf when horde is still winning over 75% of battlegrounds.

All classes are strong.

[Bittermens]

Nobody in vanilla wanted to be ret, or wanted a ret in their party once you got to endgame

They needed some kind of buff in private servers and classic+ servers for sure

Hybrids in vanilla were not just less damage than their pure counterparts, they were completely useless and provided no benefit at all over bringing a vastly superior pure, thats not what hybrids are suppose to be and even private server devs get that and brought them much more in-line with the pures

You also have it twisted thinking pures should have some kind of advantage over hybrids, pures are simple to play and dont require any extra gearsets to make viable like hybrids do, hybrids require much more effort and farming to fulfill all the roles given to them and are more complicated to play as pures (seal twisting, AP vs SP, seals/buffs managment)

If you want to be a simple minded warrior, dont expect to be more powerful than a paladin which is a warrior given godlike powers, these devs are pretty much the only ones to get that and finally made paladin feel like a real class and not a wheelchair that gives salv to the raid

A Brownie aka Warrior wrote this post.

[Papire]

Hello, I got oneshot by shamans instant chain lightning + earthshock, I got one shot by instant pyroblast + firenlast, I got one shot by a warlock while being feared, I got over 1500 dmg crit from rogues, i got one shot by druids while rooted with starfire, I got hit by over 2k multishots, I got executed for 3k . . . So. Um . . . Yeah.

I dont know how often I have to repeat myself and I am getting damn tired of it:

You cant have the cake AND eat it too.

You cant do dps AND be tanky. Thats against all balanceing. Especially if you have tools like the paladin.

Yes shamans can oneshot. But thats not the thing. Shamans are incredibly weak against stun and dps in general.

I am fucking TIRED of stupid discussions like this.

Paladins are weak to stun and dps in general too, armor does nothing against magic dmg, having one defensive cooldown every 5 mins doesnt really warrant that class to do 0dmg.

Mages are tanky with all their shields and cc and blocks.
Priests are tanky with their little bubble that negates warrior rage generation + low cooldowm aoe fear.
Warlocks are tanky with their double voidwalker shield and fear / succubus spam.
Rogues are tanky with evasion and the new parry ability
Druids are tanky in bear and owl forms
Warriors are tanky and can deal massive dmg while also having gap closers and slow and intrerupt
Hunters are amazing at kiting and you wont catch a good hunter
Shamans are just as tanky with shield and mail and 4 instant totems + incredible burst and 1200damage intrerupt every 5 seconds

I am sorry to inform you, but paladin used to be good only to heal while in bubble and die. So being upset that the class you used as a bunching Bag can now hit back is not fair, since all other classes can do it.

I am tired of ppl complaining that alliance needs a nerf when horde is still winning over 75% of battlegrounds.

All classes are strong.

No class combine very high survival ability with high brust, only paladins right now. Warriors dont have survival ability, mages have some utilities, but they are still thin and can be killed(warlocks too), there is consumables that basically destroys rogues gameplay. While paladin is thick and smash faces without decent gear and skill, that's just not fair. The maximum paladin damage output should be that of druid, even slightly less cause druid can't heal in bear and can't cast invulnerability on himself.
Alliance skill issues, but arena is dead because of 3 ret stacks. And stop mentioning shams, they make up like 5% of population while paladins is simply 20%, that should tell you something.

[Chudman123]

Pretty much all classes are broken in T3 and there are a lot of MoM on twow. I wish T2 was max gear for pvp. It would be way more competitive imo, I mean look at the devs they are buffing rep rewards to be item level 71 just like r12/13 pieces and that's great but it still doesn't address the fact that most vanilla pvp back in the day was without naxx gear for 99.9+ percent of people and playtime.

Pally being able to holy strike and seal of command or holy strike and holy shock for instant 4k DMG is broken but holy strike will get fixed in cc2 so this won't be an issue so people should stop complaining about pallys imo.

Also maybe they should not allow guaranteed procs (since this causes all weapon procs to be nerfed ppm) and life steal procs scaling with sp seems wrong but if they fix the guarantee proc maybe this isn't an issue. Besides that pally should have more damage than vanilla because they weren't very good in vanilla.

[Valadorn]

I dont know how often I have to repeat myself and I am getting damn tired of it:

You cant have the cake AND eat it too.

You cant do dps AND be tanky. Thats against all balanceing. Especially if you have tools like the paladin.

Yes shamans can oneshot. But thats not the thing. Shamans are incredibly weak against stun and dps in general.

I am fucking TIRED of stupid discussions like this.

Paladins are weak to stun and dps in general too, armor does nothing against magic dmg, having one defensive cooldown every 5 mins doesnt really warrant that class to do 0dmg.

Mages are tanky with all their shields and cc and blocks.
Priests are tanky with their little bubble that negates warrior rage generation + low cooldowm aoe fear.
Warlocks are tanky with their double voidwalker shield and fear / succubus spam.
Rogues are tanky with evasion and the new parry ability
Druids are tanky in bear and owl forms
Warriors are tanky and can deal massive dmg while also having gap closers and slow and intrerupt
Hunters are amazing at kiting and you wont catch a good hunter
Shamans are just as tanky with shield and mail and 4 instant totems + incredible burst and 1200damage intrerupt every 5 seconds

I am sorry to inform you, but paladin used to be good only to heal while in bubble and die. So being upset that the class you used as a bunching Bag can now hit back is not fair, since all other classes can do it.

I am tired of ppl complaining that alliance needs a nerf when horde is still winning over 75% of battlegrounds.

All classes are strong.

No class combine very high survival ability with high brust, only paladins right now. Warriors dont have survival ability, mages have some utilities, but they are still thin and can be killed(warlocks too), there is consumables that basically destroys rogues gameplay. While paladin is thick and smash faces without decent gear and skill, that's just not fair. The maximum paladin damage output should be that of druid, even slightly less cause druid can't heal in bear and can't cast invulnerability on himself.
Alliance skill issues, but arena is dead because of 3 ret stacks. And stop mentioning shams, they make up like 5% of population while paladins is simply 20%, that should tell you something.

I see you didnt play alliance, there are plenty of 3 elemental shaman matchups in blood ring and they usually end b4 the paladin even has the time to bubble, paladins have low HP at below 4k unless heavily geared, plate is worth nothing against spell dmg, holy prot potions cost like 20s, as you mentioned potions against rogues, paladins have no charges, slows or intrerupts, they can hit you once every 10 seconds, bubble is nerfed, reckoning is nerfed, spell coefs are nerfed, holy strike is getting nerfed and i am only scratching the surface, not sure what else do you want ?

On the other hand, alliance has roughly below 30% winrate overall in BGs including AV.

Hear me out, I suggest you go play paladin, test and and see how wrong you are.

On a second note, I agree that the forced proc judgement was a mistake and needs changed and so does the double dipping.

[Invokersama]

No, i don't think paladins should get nerf, in both PvP and PvE, i mean sure they are strong in pvp but they aren't game breaking compare to other classes like a lot of ppl say.

Paladins in PvE have same damage out put as feral druid, Elemental shamans (without windfury ofc) so they don't need nerf damage.

paladins in pvp strong against melees but weak against casters and CC ( players with same gear ofc :P, it's not fair for Naxx gear paladin lose to blue gear mage because they just play mage :P ), smart caster can wipe the floor with paladin

so i don't think paladins should get nerf in pvp, PvP in general is unbalance not only paladins :P, i see it's not fair to nerf paladins in PvE because of PvP, and casters or spell dmg classes in general have brust damage, sure paladins have it higher dmg brust then anyone else but everyone forgor they are melee not range like most other spell casters XD.


the right call nerf all spell casters brust dmg not only paladins, like [Stamina : reduce crit dmg from other players] or something.

if still people want to nerf paladin brust dmg specifically without fixing PvP XD, then nerf holy Strike dmg and buff Crusader Strike dmg in exchange ( like make it do weapon dmg instead or change it to TBC one )


(sorry my english bad :D )

[Jkldsngkljsng]

If you don't think paladins are OP then go play a 1.12 server and show us how well you do.

[Ghola]

People who think paladins were bad at pvp in vanilla are just flat out wrong

there's two and a half classes who could get an edge on you, spriest, some locks, and some fire mages. and you could still beat them if you played LoS, fake casted, and used all your abilities correctly. Even shamans if you could outplay their burst would just oom and let you beat them softly with your mace until dead. everyone else you would simply outlast, or be able to burst when they stopped paying attention

and that's just dueling

yes mages have shields, and rogues have evasion, etc. The difference is paladin can cast BoP or freedom on others, which makes it more valuable than these other classes defensive options. druids must shift for utility, priests cant use holy spells in shadow form, and shamans will oom in 2 seconds trying to both heal and burst. Paladin's on turtle can wear full spellpower gear, boosting their heals, and still smack you for 1.5x the damage of a lightning bolt at half the cost. They lose very little damage comparitively by being full holy spec rather than ret

my favorite line that paladins on turtle use is "the warrior class dev nerfed paladins in wow development because he lost to a paladin in a duel". Tell me, in OG vanilla with no turtle changes, how often are warriors beating paladins in duels? if paladins were nerfed because they beat warriors, youd think warrior wouldnt be their easiest matchup still

[Jkldsngkljsng]

my favorite line that paladins on turtle use is "the warrior class dev nerfed paladins in wow development because he lost to a paladin in a duel". Tell me, in OG vanilla with no turtle changes, how often are warriors beating paladins in duels? if paladins were nerfed because they beat warriors, youd think warrior wouldnt be their easiest matchup still

To add to that, from the WoWhead Classic Paladin dueling guide: "Warriors should actually be your easiest matchup of all."