Is Frost really the best DPS?

[Styopa1]

Wowhead classic and wowclassic.gg claims it's the best dps spec before AQ (where mobs are less resistant to fire)
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/c ... builds-pve
https://wowclassic.gg/class-guides/arcane-mage/

I don't see immediately any Turtle changes that would really alter that but it just doesn't feel like I'm hitting as hard as with fire.

(?)

(To be clear:
- I'm 56
- I'm not solo'ing nor aoe farming. I just want highest possible single target dps.
- I play this character exclusively with 2 pallies so:
-- I'm the main dps
-- they don't like aoes because they don't have a lot of taunt abilities)

Comments?

[Darktifa]

Are you really comparing dmg at end game content
vs dmg at leveling dungeons?

[Zvyrhol]

These sites claim so in context of early raiding in WoW Classic, not general power of specialization. First raids in WoW Classic were Onyxia's Lair and Molten Core in which all mobs were immune to fire. Next update, there was BWL added - most mobs there were also immune to fire. In Turtle WoW you have access to all raids and also you can get Goblin Brainwashing Device that works as multi-spec.

You are not level 60 yet so you can play however you want. Try different builds, ask other experienced mages.

[Zeran]

I'm pretty sure that Fire has higher DPS than Frost, but frost offers survivability and other such utility.

I recall it being mentioned also that fire is more mana-intensive. So most people start off as frost, and then respec to fire, if they want to, once they have the gear to sustain it. Also depends on if you're raiding (e.g. frost for MC and fire for Naxx)

[Styopa1]

Are you really comparing dmg at end game content
vs dmg at leveling dungeons?

No, I'm literally just asking whether the full frost specs linked does more dps than fire as the links provided suggest.

What part of what I wrote was confusing?

[Styopa1]

These sites claim so in context of early raiding in WoW Classic, not general power of specialization.

Well, they don't say "just in running MC", they say "Arcane Power Frost is the go-to PvE spec for Mages until Phase 4" which is pretty comprehensive.

Try different builds, ask other experienced mages.

Kinda what I thought I was doing? I have tried fire, it felt like a lot more damage, so I'm literally asking other experienced mages here if they also believe (as the sites) that frost is best dps generally, or if (as in my experience) fire seems better.

[Sauceman89]

As a mage player I would say go Fire spec in the long run if you want to do end game content like AQ40/Naxx (However this could change with Grim Batol raid in the near future). Otherwise Frost offers more survivability and is commonly used in PVP. Personally I prefer using Fire spec just for the sheer amount of damage you can do with it. Especially with other Fire mages stacking scorches and ignite ticks. Just make sure if you 're about to steal aggro due to your Ignite ticks kill it asap with a rank 1 Frost Bolt.

[Akos1896]

Raids have difficulty levels. If you want to optimize, go frost until AQ40, respec to fire during AQ40 progression and you're good. Unless you PVP often, then frost is very useful.
There is also arcane but it's less DPS, more utility, specially to a caster group.

[Volkyte]

Best spec: elemental. You can pvp and pve if you cannot afford brainwash device. Very fun spec to play.

[Frantsel]

Way more important is you enjoy the build you play.

[Mackylol]

Raids have difficulty levels. If you want to optimize, go frost until AQ40, respec to fire during AQ40 progression and you're good. Unless you PVP often, then frost is very useful.
There is also arcane but it's less DPS, more utility, specially to a caster group.

Im so GODDDDDDDDAMNED tired of you minmaxers, if I want to play frost on content before AQ40 then I WILL!!

[Akos1896]

Man, I've said if he wants to optimize. If he just wanna have fun, he can play whichever.

[Likaleo]

Raids have difficulty levels. If you want to optimize, go frost until AQ40, respec to fire during AQ40 progression and you're good. Unless you PVP often, then frost is very useful.
There is also arcane but it's less DPS, more utility, specially to a caster group.

Im so GODDDDDDDDAMNED tired of you minmaxers, if I want to play frost on content before AQ40 then I WILL!!

Me too brother. I am fire mage and if i join molten core i will use fire spells stupid minmaxer allways cry but its only fuel for my fire. I will allways be fire i dont buy frost spells snd thats that

[Hoo]

Frost (meaning actually half arcance half frost) is the only option for MC/BWL in vanilla wow, but on turtle you can also go for full arcane - it's pretty close to the usual frost build in terms of damage, has more hit from talents (which helps quite a lot until you can get enough hit from items), and has a pretty useful aura for other casters/healers.
But when you gear up enough that you don't need to raid BWL any more - fire is the best dps spec by far. The only reason why no one uses it in first available raids is because of immunities/resistances.