is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

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Elkepwn
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is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Elkepwn » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:58 am

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I love the druid heal skilltree and the concept of the healing druid in tree form, however I rarely see players playing this style because "healing touch" is the druid's primary heal.

Also, I noticed in the bgs that the "tree aura", that is essential for healing, only works for group members, but not for the whole raid group.

I would really appreciate it if the aura was extended to the whole raid group and there was a weak healcast with no HoT.

For example, you could cast "healing touch" as a tree, but reduce the healing by 75% and also reduce the cast time and manacost by 50%, so that the tree can also compensate for large dmginput without losing its shape.
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Larense
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Larense » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:07 pm

I'm waiting for a good update for the Healers Druids, I'm a big fan of the Healers Druids, but that little (big very big) little thing about HT which can not be castrated in the form of a tree overwhelms me a lot. I really hope that something can be done about it and if you think about it the truth is not something broken at all, in case I can not because I will continue to love my druid, but I wish I could be better as a healer. turtle_in_love_head

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Rokit
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Rokit » Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:32 am

I feel like the HoT druid's problem is that they can't stack. Letting rejuvenation stack to 5, from multiple players, would shake things up and not require a huge amount of change.
Rokitt - High Elf Priest

Ibux
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Ibux » Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 am

give them a normal resurrection spell and stacking hots

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Rokit
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Rokit » Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:51 am

Ibux wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 am
give them a normal resurrection spell and stacking hots
++++
Rokitt - High Elf Priest

Mekunekud
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Mekunekud » Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:20 am

They are fine. It's the same as having a Warlock for imp buff. They are a passive net gain for the tank group that's underperforming compared to other specs.
Sure, they are the weakest hybrid healer but they are the strongest net DPS and tank of the 3 so if their healing spec is lackluster when stacked, I can't see the issue.
I do think they need a res thats not tied to battle res but otherwise, they are just the weakest healer with decent net benefits for their position in a raid.

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Larense
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Larense » Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:03 am

A normal resurrection could be cool tho, about stack hot they should consider it but in moderation so that it will not be something super broken. The issue of healing touch while it is in the form of a tree should also be implemented, I really hope it is something that at least they consider it very seriously. sad_turtle

Ibux
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Ibux » Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:47 am

nothing super broken about stacking hots. having a bunch of rejuvs up that tick for 600-700 max each is nice. but if you wanna max rank blanket raid you oom super quickly. your party members will probably in most cases not even need the additional healing bonus from tree of life. unless your in a dungeon group your not going to be in a tank group.

Alexanbin
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Alexanbin » Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:41 pm

turtle_in_love_head +1

Alexanbin
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Alexanbin » Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:47 pm

giving Druids back Lifebloom as their main healing ability.

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Reploidrocsa
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Reploidrocsa » Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:47 pm

Or WOTLK nourish and make it tree of life exclusive. Now THAT would be interesting

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Sylveria
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Sylveria » Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:27 am

Lifebloom would be awesome.~ :)

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Breadskix
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Breadskix » Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:19 am

Ibux wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 am
give them a normal resurrection spell and stacking hots
++++this++++

Alexanbin
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Alexanbin » Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:12 pm

Lifebloom and tree form,You can't have one without the other.

Siflisk1
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Siflisk1 » Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:18 pm

Giving tree something like -12 seconds off swiftmend cool down could be another option

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Harkus
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Harkus » Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:36 am

Ibux wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:19 am
give them a normal resurrection spell and stacking hots
Yes please, it is terrible to not be able to res people after a partial wipe

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Reploidrocsa
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Reploidrocsa » Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:05 pm

there's a new first aid item called smelling salts, which ressurrects a player with no chance to fail. Their crafting requirements is also reasonable. Recipe drops in Kara10, looking forward to get it

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Kangaraxxus
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Kangaraxxus » Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:11 pm

Restor Druids are in excelent shape on twow, the only problem I experience is other restor druids in raid. My bigus dikus rejuv been replaced with tinus dikus rejuv of other druid is really cancerous. And i get it they will never let several rejuvs be applied to same target because it trivialize some fights like maexxna. But at least make it so that you can't replace hot with bigger tick by a hot with smaller tick. And there already similar condition in place but it checks spell ranks instead. This fix would solve alot of troubles.
And if your problem is not having resurection, not having chain heal, not having bubble - then you probably rolled wrong class

Alexanbin
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Alexanbin » Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:26 am

Right now, it seems like if you go with the tree form, your healing output might be lower because Regrowth eats mana super fast.

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Sylveria
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Sylveria » Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:33 am

Alexanbin wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:12 pm
Lifebloom and tree form,You can't have one without the other.
100%

The only spell that profits from the Tree of Lifes mana reduction right now is rejuvenation. Nothing else. And Regrowth eats away mana like hell. So usually i need my own Inervate and can't keep it for the priest or pala-heal.
I think Lifebloom is the way to go.

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Reploidrocsa
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Reploidrocsa » Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:38 pm

Kangaraxxus wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:11 pm
Restor Druids are in excelent shape on twow, the only problem I experience is other restor druids in raid. My bigus dikus rejuv been replaced with tinus dikus rejuv of other druid is really cancerous. And i get it they will never let several rejuvs be applied to same target because it trivialize some fights like maexxna. But at least make it so that you can't replace hot with bigger tick by a hot with smaller tick. And there already similar condition in place but it checks spell ranks instead. This fix would solve alot of troubles.
And if your problem is not having resurection, not having chain heal, not having bubble - then you probably rolled wrong class
you want to avoid overwritting hots? use roid macros and tell any other resto druid to use it.

then use this macro

/cast [@mouseover nobuff:Rejuvenation]Rejuvenation

it'll cast rejuvenation max rank on the mouseover only if it doesn't have any other rejuvenation effect active. In case a reju is already on the target it does nothing.

Every resto druid in my guild is trained to heal like this so druids don't grief each other heals

Jc473
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Jc473 » Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:35 pm

Re druids' HoT not stacking....

How did druid HoT stacking work in TBC onwards?

If we are scared about it breaking certain situations (e.g. Maexxna), can the devs not implement some sort of punitive formula to allow HoT stacking but at the cost of efficiency?

For example (arbitrary numbers used),
1 druid (Max rank HoT) - 100 health / second
2 druids (Max rank HoT) - 70% reduction modifier on both HoTs - (70 + 70) health / second
3 druids (Max rank HoT) - 60% reduction modifier on all HoTs - (60 + 60 + 60) health / second
etc

So, as you stack more HoTs, the total throughput of healing increases but it becomes more and more inefficient in terms of healing (and mana, obviously). So, for the Maexxna example, yes, you'd be able to 'cheese' it but at least there would be a bigger cost to do so!

Obviously, it would have to be more nuanced than this, but hopefully, you get the point.

Alexanbin
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Alexanbin » Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:31 am

Don't waste your points on the Tree of Life Form.

Alexanbin
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Alexanbin » Thu Nov 02, 2023 6:51 pm

wary_turtle_head +++++111

Relg
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Relg » Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:49 pm

The Tree of Life has got a new tooltip.

"...increase healing received by 20% of your total spirit for all party members..."

has been replaced by

"...the healing power of new party members is increased by an amount equal to 20% of your spirit, ..."

So, it should give a boost in healing power for all healers in the group. That makes a difference.
I couldnt confirm the effect in game yet.

Blackduck
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Blackduck » Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:19 pm

I use it in raids and do pretty well on the meters. The trick is to spam rejuvenation on the raid every gcd (max rank on melee/tanks and rank 4 on everyone else) and then use swiftmend when needed. Only use regrowth as a emergency heal with nature's swiftness. This will top the meters on fights where raid healing is a must like Vael and Vis. The other trick is to get out of tree form on fights where only tanks take damage like Twins and Patchwerk so you can precast healing touch. You should still keep a max rank rejuv up on tanks though so you can snipe with Swiftmend.

If your raid's dps is high enough you will definitely outheal all the healing touch sepc'd druids since the bosses should die before you run out of mana. If you have two pieces of t3 you'll also take advantage of its set bonus and restore vital resources to your raid like rage, energy and mana constantly since you're using rejuv every gcd.

Relg
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Relg » Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:58 pm

Does the buffing of other healers in the group work correctly ?

I am a bit suspicious because the in-game tooltip says "healing power of party members is increased", while on the TWOW-website the Treeform is still described as "increase healing received".

Blackduck
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Blackduck » Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:50 pm

Relg wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:58 pm
Does the buffing of other healers in the group work correctly ?

I am a bit suspicious because the in-game tooltip says "healing power of party members is increased", while on the TWOW-website the Treeform is still described as "increase healing received".
The old aura was actually really strong and boosted small heals/hots considerably. The issue was that everyone wants a shaman in the melee groups so there's no room for a tree so you got put in the groups that needed the least healing.

The new aura works based on my tests but it doesn't show up in bettercharacterstats for some reason.

Eversongwoods
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Eversongwoods » Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:06 pm

they should just remove it and try something different for that end of tree talent

Relg
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Relg » Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:29 pm

If the new aura is working as intended I would consider it really good.
Feral druids give an aura-boost to melee groups, Moonkin boosts caster groups, and resto-trees boost healer groups - sounds good to me.

Blackduck
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Blackduck » Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:45 pm

With 300 spirit you're looking at an extra 60 healing for each person in the tree's group. That's like having an extra epic trinket equipped so yeah not bad.

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Treezus
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Re: is [Tree of Life Form] useless?

Post by Treezus » Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:04 am

I play exclusively in Tree Form and, of course, I love it. I view other resto druids who don't use it with a combination of pity and bewilderment. I also keep getting told that it's a very weak spec but, in my view, it merely has a high skill ceiling that many druids have yet to reach. That said, while I'm not in the secret druid class discussions, there are problems I'm aware of need to be addressed:

1) You can't have more than one tree druid in the raid. All hots will be overridden by the stronger healer, and assigning heal groups for hots means that some parts of the raid will not be adequately covered and reduces the overall healing of both druids. I consider this an oversight. Solution: Rejuvenation stacking, at least to 3. This makes having multiple tree druids viable since the stronger healer won't be cancelling out weaker healers.

2) The lack of a mana-efficient direct heal while in Tree Form. Downranking Regrowth to acceptable levels of mana consumption just gives you a very weak Regrowth. You're better off dropping the form, casting a mainline HT, and then recasting Tree of Life. This might not have been intended. Solution: HT castable in Tree Form, or replaced with something like Nourish.

3) No out-of-combat res mechanic. Druids are forced to use jumper cables or smelling salts because of the long CD on their battle res. This makes 5-man groups annoying for everyone if no-one else has a res. I consider this a quality of life issue. Solution: Add the Revive spell to the game.

4) Tranquility. Outside of extremely limited situations, the spell is functionally useless. No-one I'm aware of even has it on their bars. The purpose of the spell is to provide a large AOE heal that stabilizes the raid against high incoming damage, in a way that's stronger and more efficient than a blanket of Rejuvenations, but also incurring a lengthy cooldown. I would consider a rework of the spell but without turning it into its retail equivalent, as that would be an incredibly powerful spell. Here's an example of how it could work:

Tranquility (Rank 4), 925 Mana, Channeled, 10 min cooldown. Regenerates the X most injured allies within 40 yards for Y every 2 seconds for 10 sec. Druid must channel to maintain the spell.

The term "group members" being replaced with "most injured allies" allows for this to affect the entire raid, as long as they're in range. X can be a number that's at least 5. Y can be a number that's at least Z+75% of the druid's healing power. Doubling the cooldown in ensures that it doesn't trivialize fights since its purpose is to give the druid a panic button that can help prevent one disaster.

(EDIT) 5) Atiesh group aura. This one's tangential since it affects all resto druids and not just tree druids. While the mp/5 is neat and is in keeping with the spirit of what the original developers were going for (one of the staves being for mana regeneration purposes), it's not as useful as the other Atiesh staff buffs. I'm aware that the developers have no interest in changing how Atiesh works, but if it were to be changed the aura could look like this:

Equip: Allows (5%/10%) of your party members' Mana regenration within 30 yards to continue while casting.

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