What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Edgarek
Posts: 19

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Edgarek » Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:48 am

Jimyape wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:12 pm
Thats why even Blizzard adds shaman tanking to classic now with Season of Discovery, right? LMAO didnt age well bro...
Thats not even argument, since there also is healing mage and warlock with reskin bear form.
More of that, i saw a couple more runes, there is a high chance every class in the game would be able to tank, except priest.

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Bigsmerf
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Bigsmerf » Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:35 pm

Edgarek wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:48 am
Jimyape wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:12 pm
Thats why even Blizzard adds shaman tanking to classic now with Season of Discovery, right? LMAO didnt age well bro...
Thats not even argument, since there also is healing mage and warlock with reskin bear form.
More of that, i saw a couple more runes, there is a high chance every class in the game would be able to tank, except priest.
Priests already technically CAN tank, they're just barely usable in dungeon content, considering most of their threat has to come from mind blast. It might even be somewhat possible in SoD
Elmhoof - 60 Feral, between tanking/dps (Main)
Anbone 34 Shadow Priest (Planned secondary main)
Manypunchman - 10 Naked Troll Boxer (Hardcore)

I'm back! More or less...

Khancvetan
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Khancvetan » Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:24 am

Daily bump for justice.

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Rafale
Posts: 80

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Rafale » Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:01 am

Enh shamans should be able to tank AND dps as feral druids.

Talents and abilities are there, they don't need much.
I always follow those rules for suggestion :
1) Does it answer the class/spec problem ?
2) Does it keep the class identity ?
3) Does it keep the vanilla gameplay of the class/spec ?
4) Is it balanced (not OP) ?

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Manletow
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Manletow » Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:06 am

You won't get a response from a developer because the T-WoW staff have already very clearly stated objectives: finish what blizzard started / buff things that sucked horribly / fix things that were overlooked/unintended

"being somewhat mediocre" is not "sucking horribly" btw so likely won't be addressed in any significant way. MAYBE minor buffs if you are lucky

Enhancement Shaman is not intended to be a DPS powerhouse as they are a tanky support class/spec intended to fulfill whatever role is needed of them at that moment (such as tossing a quick emergency heal for example) or (off-tanking particularly hard mobs/bosses).

Indeed, under the 'Skills' tab you will find:
Elemental COMBAT
Enhancement
Restoration

You are not intended to be a badass chad DPS as you not even referred to as "combat". Indeed, you only have a single (painfully mediocre) melee ability (Stormstrike) and it is a deep talent as well.

Note: It's no coincidence your ONLY melee attack also has a support side effect: increasing Nature dmg on the target (intentional design: can boost a teammates nature spell damage).

Tanking/Support is baked deep into the DNA of Enhancement shaman and this is as it should be in T-WoW.

Only during WoTLK was it ret-conned and "revamped" to become an uninspired dual wielding Warrior wannabe. A repulsive choice imo and ruined what made the spec intriguing to me.

Enhancement Shamans shine in 5 man content as this is where they thrive. They can also Main Tank low tier raids like Molten Core.

Not every class/spec needs to excel in every aspect of the game. To attempt that concept is to make Vanilla into Retail.

Do not want. >_<
Paladin is broken in PVP.
Frost Mage is broken in PVP/PVE.
Warrior is awful in PVP.
Feral Druid is mediocre in PVP.
Enhancement Shaman is fine. Stop begging for goofy custom abilities.

Khancvetan
Posts: 8

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Khancvetan » Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:58 pm

Manletow wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:06 am
You won't get a response from a developer because the T-WoW staff have already very clearly stated objectives: finish what blizzard started / buff things that sucked horribly / fix things that were overlooked/unintended

"being somewhat mediocre" is not "sucking horribly" btw so likely won't be addressed in any significant way. MAYBE minor buffs if you are lucky

Enhancement Shaman is not intended to be a DPS powerhouse as they are a tanky support class/spec intended to fulfill whatever role is needed of them at that moment (such as tossing a quick emergency heal for example) or (off-tanking particularly hard mobs/bosses).

Indeed, under the 'Skills' tab you will find:
Elemental COMBAT
Enhancement
Restoration

You are not intended to be a badass chad DPS as you not even referred to as "combat". Indeed, you only have a single (painfully mediocre) melee ability (Stormstrike) and it is a deep talent as well.

Note: It's no coincidence your ONLY melee attack also has a support side effect: increasing Nature dmg on the target (intentional design: can boost a teammates nature spell damage).

Tanking/Support is baked deep into the DNA of Enhancement shaman and this is as it should be in T-WoW.

Only during WoTLK was it ret-conned and "revamped" to become an uninspired dual wielding Warrior wannabe. A repulsive choice imo and ruined what made the spec intriguing to me.

Enhancement Shamans shine in 5 man content as this is where they thrive. They can also Main Tank low tier raids like Molten Core.

Not every class/spec needs to excel in every aspect of the game. To attempt that concept is to make Vanilla into Retail.

Do not want. >_<
Dude you are the only person in the entire forum still hating this discussion without any objective reasoning.
You are arguing against an imaginary strawman you created in your head. You spent the time to write this long post, again, because you have been laying out those points since the beginning of this thread, and you have been debunked and argued out of them like 5 times already. I am not going to spent time to do it again, you can just read the previous pages, but I doubt you read anything postes here at all. You just repeat the same 5 lines over and over again without them making any sense anymore.
At this point I am worried about you.
Why spent all this time to sabotage this thread?
Did your wife run away with an Ench Shammy or something?
Srly, at this point it seems like you just have a personal vendetta against shamans.

Skeetul77
Posts: 9

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Skeetul77 » Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:40 pm

Manletow wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:06 am
You are not intended to be a badass chad DPS as you not even referred to as "combat". Indeed, you only have a single (painfully mediocre) melee ability (Stormstrike) and it is a deep talent as well.
Stormstrike doesn't really require a lot of sacrifice to get. It takes 10 less talent points on this server to get to. The thing is, enhancement still get's kind of shafted because bloodlust is a 5 minute cooldown and not that great. I'd rather dip heavy elemental after getting Stormstrike and a few other key enhancement talents so I can get the increased spell crit damage and elemental devestation for the 9% melee crit. Funnily enough, it seems turtle wow on accident or on purpose incentivizes shamans to stack intellect and agility over strength even harder.

How ever, the rolling flurry/clearcasting/9% melee crit synergy feels a lot better to do with a fast 1 hander + flametongue and shield and then switch to a two-hander when you get the 9% additional crit/flurry and then unleash stormstrike.

Frankly, there's no fixing shamans in PVP to some degree because totems are not a good mechanic and shamans lack CC or any stop gap cooldowns like rogues.

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:37 pm

Le bump

Khancvetan
Posts: 8

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Khancvetan » Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:04 am

Bump for justice

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:04 pm

Soo what's new folks

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:39 pm

Bump.

Fixaren1
Posts: 28

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Fixaren1 » Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:34 pm

bump bump

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:29 pm

How does one draw attention to this thread from Twow team?

Khancvetan
Posts: 8

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Khancvetan » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:51 pm

You can't draw attention to it because they never even once clicked in this portion of the forum.
This threat has been on the top of the forum's page almost the entire time since it was created and the entire conversation is filled with people asking for any kind of feedback, but nothing is happening. Just have to admit that the Turtlewow team doesn't read the forum so all of this is just screams into the void .

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Sun Nov 26, 2023 5:19 pm

Khancvetan wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:51 pm
You can't draw attention to it because they never even once clicked in this portion of the forum.
This threat has been on the top of the forum's page almost the entire time since it was created and the entire conversation is filled with people asking for any kind of feedback, but nothing is happening. Just have to admit that the Turtlewow team doesn't read the forum so all of this is just screams into the void .
I'm afraid the silence is proving you right. Shame. An opportunity to "fix" a great class here.

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:26 pm

Bump..

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:44 pm

Hello again, it's me, the sad shaman.

(Now playing hunter tho, so yay)

Br,
Sad shaman; Happy hunter

Taliesin
Posts: 1

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Taliesin » Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:46 am

Bump! This server is so cool in so many ways that it's hugely disappointing to learn that enhancement is still wallowing in the mud.

They don't have to be able to do it all, but please, devs, give the spec either the ability to competitively deal damage or competitively tank. They've been the underdog long enough :(

Blackbook
Posts: 40

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Blackbook » Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:50 am

seems that hard to interact with the playerbase...

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Glipo » Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:36 pm

why just to not take copy link of this topic and sapm whole forum? is here rules against it?

Blackbook
Posts: 40

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Blackbook » Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:21 pm

u cant force interaction between the staff and players. Look at this forum if they had interest in communication with players u would have seen them answer in different topics in the past.

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Glipo » Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:46 pm

Blackbook wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:21 pm
u cant force interaction between the staff and players. Look at this forum if they had interest in communication with players u would have seen them answer in different topics in the past.
good
Last edited by Glipo on Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pepesmite
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Pepesmite » Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:07 pm

Glipo wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:46 pm
Blackbook wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:21 pm
u cant force interaction between the staff and players. Look at this forum if they had interest in communication with players u would have seen them answer in different topics in the past.
I did make a topic in forum part help/support and it was deleted so at last now i know they did read so it is already good
Greetings!
You don't need to create topics about topics. All topics in the suggestions section are reviewed by the developers on a daily basis. If you want a dialog you can go to our discord section #theorycraftig and discuss there in real time. Developers are often in this channel.
Also if your idea is interesting or the developer has questions he will leave a comment in the thread.

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Ryo3000
Posts: 42

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Ryo3000 » Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:50 pm

Pepesmite wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:07 pm

Greetings!
You don't need to create topics about topics. All topics in the suggestions section are reviewed by the developers on a daily basis. If you want a dialog you can go to our discord section #theorycraftig and discuss there in real time. Developers are often in this channel.
Also if your idea is interesting or the developer has questions he will leave a comment in the thread.
I really want to believe you that the topics are reviewed by the developers frequently, but it's really disheartening to not have any real acknowlement

Like I don't think anyone here expects a "We will do these changesby this date" response but it'd be nice to get confirmation that this is something that is on the plans at some point and also that the devs understand what are the complaints.

This topic itself is just the open question "Ok, what ARE the plans?" It's been a fairly popular topic for a month now and the response has been silence

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:13 pm

Pepesmite wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:07 pm
Glipo wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:46 pm
Blackbook wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:21 pm
u cant force interaction between the staff and players. Look at this forum if they had interest in communication with players u would have seen them answer in different topics in the past.
I did make a topic in forum part help/support and it was deleted so at last now i know they did read so it is already good
Greetings!
You don't need to create topics about topics. All topics in the suggestions section are reviewed by the developers on a daily basis. If you want a dialog you can go to our discord section #theorycraftig and discuss there in real time. Developers are often in this channel.
Also if your idea is interesting or the developer has questions he will leave a comment in the thread.
Thank you for responding!

Do I read that if this was something that was indeed pursued or in line with what *someone* focuses on @ Twow team, one could have expected an answer in the matter by now?

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:50 pm

Moderators, can this thread be moved to the "Suggestion" page? I seemingly put it in the wrong spot if "the suggestions section are reviewed by the developers on a daily basis".

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Aavri
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Aavri » Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:58 am

Thefnom wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:50 pm
Moderators, can this thread be moved to the "Suggestion" page? I seemingly put it in the wrong spot if "the suggestions section are reviewed by the developers on a daily basis".
I would say just take the best ideas and make a new thread. I just made one about totems.

I am going to make one specifically about tanking enhancement if you want to make one about DPS?

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Sat Dec 09, 2023 11:50 am

Bump? Bump!

Thefnom
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:50 pm

New year new shaman? Will 2024 be the year of our dreams? Stay tuned to find out!

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Tanasa
Posts: 42

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Tanasa » Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:44 am

No skin in the game just wanted to give a shoutout to the most blizzlike experience which is devs ignoring the shit out of a class that was a full 25 percent of the WC3 campaign.

N3olitic2023
Posts: 5

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by N3olitic2023 » Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:56 am

Got my enhance to 60 when Tel'Abim launched and haven't played properly in months. Partly due to Season of Discovery but mainly because enhancement is in such a dire state here.
I'm patiently waiting for it to be buffed and brought in line with other DPS.
I do not want to hear anymore support class narrative bullshit. At the end of the day, the devs are free to do what they want, including buffing this spec to make it decent and bring some diversity in raids instead of just another brown bar.
Enhancement shaman

Akos1896
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Akos1896 » Mon Jan 29, 2024 10:22 am

Blizzard originally had the intention to create a shaman tank spec. This is why you can LFT as a tank with shaman, unlike specs which occassionally meme-tank, like rogues, hunters or warlocks. Shamans are the mirror image of paladins which can also do all 3 roles.
The problem is that enh tree has many tanking talents, taking away talent options from enh DPS. Examples: shield specialization, parry in the original, ancestral guardian in TWOW. If we wanna have shaman tanks, it's not enough to make it work, some added things are needed. If we don't wanna have shaman tanks, we can remove these talents and add actually useful ones for melee shamans which could finally make them a semi-viable choice.

To make shaman tanking somewhat viable, these things are needed:
* Single target taunt (probably a new level of earth shock which taunts)
* Better threat scaling of rockbiter weapon
* A way to make aoe threat. Either via linking magma or fire nove threat to you or by adding an aoe melee attack for shamans.
* Added survivability. Mail is squishy but plate doesn't fir shamans. Adding a lot of extra mitigation through shields can help.
* (Optional) Making stoneclaw totem a viable totem. Let's say it's a totem which is immune to damage but despawns after 3-5 seconds. Would work as a big CD aoe taunt.

The main design philosophy problem with shamans is the amount of utility each build gets via the totems. You could raid with a shaman without spending a talent point and they would be decent. Locking up some utility behind talents which is only obtained by ele/enh/resto makes it possible to buff the builds more. For example a mage has a bunch of utility but is considered a mostly DPS spec, enabling very high damage-ceiling for them. A shaman build with restricted utility could be made much more viable. For example only enh having access to a good WF totem or only resto having access to good disease or poison cleansing makes it possible to buff up the builds as compensation for the utility they lack now.

Hyrag
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Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Hyrag » Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:53 pm

1. Stormstrike Debuff turns into a buff on shaman(that is a buff for tanks too)
2. bloodlust applies both on shaman and the target
3. some sort of + hammers on enhancement tree (for race viabilization + tank buff)

Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:16 pm


Thefnom
Posts: 35

Re: What are the intentions with the Shaman class?

Post by Thefnom » Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:17 pm

Best 10 minutes spent

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