AV hows its going

[Ataika]

Recent patch fixed the gap alliance abused for years.
Leave your feedback, whats your current av experience, has winrate changed ?

[Majestik51]

i think tomorrow is AV day right?
lets see how it goes....

[Nitaya]

So now only horde is allowed to backdoor?

[Ataika]

So now only horde is allowed to backdoor?

twow patched alliance backdor long time ago

[Nitaya]

Last week ppl were still charging up on the guards in the southwest part of Dun Baldar from the "ground level" skipping the entire base.

[Ataika]

Last week ppl were still charging up on the guards in the southwest part of Dun Baldar from the "ground level" skipping the entire base.

charging guards is not a backdoor
backdor is a way every class can use

[Nitaya]

Ahh, I see the double standards here.
Horde skipping the complete base -> Feature.
Alliance does the same -> Backdoor.

Sorry but it should be considered a backdoor as well, it provides the same result, just for one you had to press the jump button for the other you had to press the charge button.

You are at the GY without going through the base. Also, the alliance does not have an elite NPC at the gy but he is patrolling at the towers, making it even easier to capture it for a player.

[Majestik51]

pls count the number of defenders (bowyers and elites) on horde towers base, and count the alliance ones....
stop dreaming pls

[Intensity]

The AV patch is great people have wanted this for years and years. Thanks for listening turtle wow team.

[Nitaya]

pls count the number of defenders (bowyers and elites) on horde towers base, and count the alliance ones....
stop dreaming pls

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[Ataika]

Ahh, I see the double standards here.
Horde skipping the complete base -> Feature.
Alliance does the same -> Backdoor.

Sorry but it should be considered a backdoor as well, it provides the same result, just for one you had to press the jump button for the other you had to press the charge button.

You are at the GY without going through the base. Also, the alliance does not have an elite NPC at the gy but he is patrolling at the towers, making it even easier to capture it for a player.

yeah few clasees able to charge npc
> whaaa HORDE backdooring

meanwhile alliance can pull all base elite through textures and kill them in the safe place
> perfectly fine

[Majestik51]

pls count the number of defenders (bowyers and elites) on horde towers base, and count the alliance ones....
stop dreaming pls

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

10yo sod enjoyer?

[Nitaya]

meanwhile alliance can pull all base elite through textures and kill them in the safe place
> perfectly fine

You started the post that it was fixed, so your "perfectly fine" reasoning fails immediately. Since it was patched, therefore it was not fine.

Also as a druid, you could simply pull the elite mobs once you are up there, to pull it down and kill them in a safe space.
So the very same can be done by the horde. (just they did not do it, but the possibility is there)
However, it was never needed as the alliance doesn't even have an elite NPC guarding the graveyard.

If you want balance, I'm fine. If we close the backdoor possibility to 1 base, let's do that for the other and give only stealthed classes the possibility to get into the back of the base 'unnoticed' but also their only way should be going THROUGH the base.

However, if you want something to be available for you and not for the other side, you don't seek balance.

[Nitaya]

pls count the number of defenders (bowyers and elites) on horde towers base, and count the alliance ones....
stop dreaming pls

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

10yo sod enjoyer?

https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#AdHominem

[Ataika]

meanwhile alliance can pull all base elite through textures and kill them in the safe place
> perfectly fine

You started the post that it was fixed, so your "perfectly fine" reasoning fails immediately. Since it was patched, therefore it was not fine.

Also as a druid, you could simply pull the elite mobs once you are up there, to pull it down and kill them in a safe space.
So the very same can be done by the horde. (just they did not do it, but the possibility is there)
However, it was never needed as the alliance doesn't even have an elite NPC guarding the graveyard.

If you want balance, I'm fine. If we close the backdoor possibility to 1 base, let's do that for the other and give only stealthed classes the possibility to get into the back of the base 'unnoticed' but also their only way should be going THROUGH the base.

However, if you want something to be available for you and not for the other side, you don't seek balance.

Alliance base is already 3x esier to defend due to narrow bridge gap
Horde base still a shithole with jumps over fence, just in the different spot

[Nitaya]

meanwhile alliance can pull all base elite through textures and kill them in the safe place
> perfectly fine

You started the post that it was fixed, so your "perfectly fine" reasoning fails immediately. Since it was patched, therefore it was not fine.

Also as a druid, you could simply pull the elite mobs once you are up there, to pull it down and kill them in a safe space.
So the very same can be done by the horde. (just they did not do it, but the possibility is there)
However, it was never needed as the alliance doesn't even have an elite NPC guarding the graveyard.

If you want balance, I'm fine. If we close the backdoor possibility to 1 base, let's do that for the other and give only stealthed classes the possibility to get into the back of the base 'unnoticed' but also their only way should be going THROUGH the base.

However, if you want something to be available for you and not for the other side, you don't seek balance.

Alliance base is already 3x esier to defend due to narrow bridge gap
Horde base still a shithole with jumps over fence, just in the different spot

Horde also has a narrow gap in their base (narrower than the alliance bridge actually and without any vision for the attackers on the defenders) https://snipboard.io/PbD9rQ.jpg, mages can easily blizzard spam it from safe places.

I don't know where is this 3x coming from, so I would be happy to hear what 3x easier to defend means. Are there any metrics?

[Ataika]

You started the post that it was fixed, so your "perfectly fine" reasoning fails immediately. Since it was patched, therefore it was not fine.

Also as a druid, you could simply pull the elite mobs once you are up there, to pull it down and kill them in a safe space.
So the very same can be done by the horde. (just they did not do it, but the possibility is there)
However, it was never needed as the alliance doesn't even have an elite NPC guarding the graveyard.

If you want balance, I'm fine. If we close the backdoor possibility to 1 base, let's do that for the other and give only stealthed classes the possibility to get into the back of the base 'unnoticed' but also their only way should be going THROUGH the base.

However, if you want something to be available for you and not for the other side, you don't seek balance.

Alliance base is already 3x esier to defend due to narrow bridge gap
Horde base still a shithole with jumps over fence, just in the different spot

Horde also has a narrow gap in their base (narrower than the alliance bridge actually and without any vision for the attackers on the defenders) https://snipboard.io/PbD9rQ.jpg, mages can easily blizzard spam it from safe places.

I don't know where is this 3x coming from, so I would be happy to hear what 3x easier to defend means. Are there any metrics?

yeah the narrow gap where alliance can safely hide from archers or fastrush it while horde is getting shot on the bridge

[Ragetto]

Alliance base is already 3x esier to defend due to narrow bridge gap
Horde base still a shithole with jumps over fence, just in the different spot

This doesn't solve the other issues indeed...

But at least, they'll be forced to go through the passage leading to the towers (which remain super easy to capture).

From now on, we'll be able to defend without being too close to our graveyard or risking a sneaky ninja cap from behind. Better than nothing, I guess.

[Majestik51]

dont answer to trolls pls, this guy nitaya plays another game obviusly...

[Astrallizard]

The alliance could use their extra players (usually +3, often even more) to def against that one druid who charges up at the backdoor area. :)

[Springboards]

meanwhile alliance can pull all base elite through textures and kill them in the safe place
> perfectly fine

You started the post that it was fixed, so your "perfectly fine" reasoning fails immediately. Since it was patched, therefore it was not fine.

Also as a druid, you could simply pull the elite mobs once you are up there, to pull it down and kill them in a safe space.
So the very same can be done by the horde. (just they did not do it, but the possibility is there)
However, it was never needed as the alliance doesn't even have an elite NPC guarding the graveyard.

You have not 1 but 2 elite NPCs guarding the graveyard(mine layer+morti
not to mention random elite in the tower.once i turn 51 on my alliance i will do a breakdown of the whole map
and the amount of guards alliance base has vs horde(pretty sure alliance one has more)
Horde guards are spread paper thin in useless places while alliance guards are jam-packed in all chokepoints

free kiting area at the frozen lake for you to pull murtof/warmasters with ONE hostile frostwolf vs packed with hostile rams and harpies alliance side. kekw good luck kiting duffy there

the 3x is coming from due to the fact that your archers actually work, and their radius is HUGE(middle of bridge to the flag at aid station) vs horde archers being cucked by LoS due to our base layout and awful tower design(which favors paladins since they are the best single target burst dps, just pack 3-4 paladins even wth t1/AV mace and its enough, not to mention rotate bubbles to prevent recapping). Also horde archers will not shoot you if you just run inside while alliance ones will

the devs need to fix this once and for all

[Springboards]

also https://classicdb.ch/?npc=12127#abilities stormpike guardsman NPCs have a charge knockdown +xtra 250 dmg instant attack followed up by autoattack vs horde frostwolf guardian https://classicdb.ch/?npc=12053#abilities having..wait for it...shield block! kekw

get a few of these npcs on you and you are in trouble. Especially with players around.And alliance has plenty of them to go around. Give horde ones a knockdown or a net or something to compensate for it

[Ragetto]

The alliance could use their extra players (usually +3, often even more) to def against that one druid who charges up at the backdoor area. :)

Exactly, the +X is just as crucial, particularly when combined with the layout of the Alliance base and the strength of their NPCs... Pretty tough to face

This +X is not Alterac-specific though (unfortunately)

[Nitaya]

You have not 1 but 2 elite NPCs guarding the graveyard(mine layer+morti
not to mention random elite in the tower.once i turn 51 on my alliance i will do a breakdown of the whole map
and the amount of guards alliance base has vs horde(pretty sure alliance one has more)
Horde guards are spread paper thin in useless places while alliance guards are jam-packed in all chokepoints

the devs need to fix this once and for all

Here is my question.
If 2 elite NPCs guarding the graveyard, since that's what you are telling me.
How come 1 single warrior can capture the aid station, if there is not a single alliance player in the base or somebody who would intervene?

Charge up to the stationary guard -> sneak behind the building where the ram rider is -> pull the graveyard guards. -> cap the GY. and done, no elite NPCs harmed.

What you are telling me is they have to kill the elites as it is guarding the graveyard, therefore what I wrote should not be possible but it happens most of the time (especially in AV days), I'll gladly make a screenshot about it. Sometimes done by a druid, sometimes a warrior (or maybe a rog, but he is sneaking in the base) never touching the elite NPCs (not even with CC.)

[Majestik51]

gtfo and go play on blizz servers they got balanced AV games, we dont want balance in turtle ok?
or even better go where u belong on league of legends servers....

[Nitaya]

dont answer to trolls pls, this guy nitaya plays another game obviusly...

The only troll is you, my friend.
You are not posting anything relevant just spewing out insults. Go out, get some fresh air.

[Springboards]

You have not 1 but 2 elite NPCs guarding the graveyard(mine layer+morti
not to mention random elite in the tower.once i turn 51 on my alliance i will do a breakdown of the whole map
and the amount of guards alliance base has vs horde(pretty sure alliance one has more)
Horde guards are spread paper thin in useless places while alliance guards are jam-packed in all chokepoints

the devs need to fix this once and for all

Charge up to the stationary guard -> sneak behind the building where the ram rider is -> pull the graveyard guards. -> cap the GY. and done, no elite NPCs harmed.

I think i've seen this happen maybe once in the whole time i was in AV and i am exalted .
they are...mine layer has his mine up+patrols there. mortimer's patrol route hits near the aid station. so yes 2 elites are guarding it

[Ataika]

alliance base is packed with npc so hunters cant literlaly multishot without agroeing some 40k hp trader elite
speaking of horde base, all these traders located in world ass where battle never goes, so alliance hunetrs can multishot freely

[Majestik51]

dont answer to trolls pls, this guy nitaya plays another game obviusly...

The only troll is you, my friend.
You are not posting anything relevant just spewing out insults. Go out, get some fresh air.

u are challenging ppls intelligence with ur lies.
show us some pics so that we can believe the circus u got in ur head....
and i didnt insult any1, i just told u to ge back where u belong, in the bushes...

[Nitaya]

Alliance base is already 3x esier to defend due to narrow bridge gap
Horde base still a shithole with jumps over fence, just in the different spot

Horde also has a narrow gap in their base (narrower than the alliance bridge actually and without any vision for the attackers on the defenders) https://snipboard.io/PbD9rQ.jpg, mages can easily blizzard spam it from safe places.

I don't know where is this 3x coming from, so I would be happy to hear what 3x easier to defend means. Are there any metrics?

yeah the narrow gap where Alliance can safely hide from archers or fastrush it while horde is getting shot on the bridge

The point would be to defend that place/ramp. If there are (enough and proper) defenders, it's not possible to ignore them and just rush to the tower. Nova/blizzard / slow etc. That 2-3 yards wide exit can be blizzarded by 1 mage, so stealthes cannot go through and everybody would be slowed immediately. Once alliance comes out, they are also getting shot by the archers.
I had lots of games, especially in the gold ole classic (10+ years ago), where we could not get past this point. Sieging it for around 5-6 hours. Too narrow, getting aoed down, and not possible to bypass it's a great spot to defend.

Also please note the unit upgrading is bugged. I have opened a bug ticket already for that.
Even if you acquire enough scraps and hand in, you get the notification but an upgrade won't happen.

It only triggers when a certain objective is REtaken. So you cap a tower, we get it back, that's when the better units spawn. To trigger the upgrade of the units that are not tied to the graveyard/tower: Aid station / Relief hut needs to be recapped.

[Nitaya]

dont answer to trolls pls, this guy nitaya plays another game obviusly...

The only troll is you, my friend.
You are not posting anything relevant just spewing out insults. Go out, get some fresh air.

u are challenging ppls intelligence with ur lies.
show us some pics so that we can believe the circus u got in ur head....
and i didnt insult any1, i just told u to ge back where u belong, in the bushes...

You are certainly a troubled child but let me help out. Exactly from what do you need a screenshot of?

[Majestik51]

The only troll is you, my friend.
You are not posting anything relevant just spewing out insults. Go out, get some fresh air.

u are challenging ppls intelligence with ur lies.
show us some pics so that we can believe the circus u got in ur head....
and i didnt insult any1, i just told u to ge back where u belong, in the bushes...

You are certainly a troubled child but let me help out. Exactly from what do you need a screenshot of?

whos insulting now, im respecting forums and i wont continue ur bs, u said u gonna provide pics with the AV circus thats going in ur head... we dont need no balance in turtle do u understand that? we want only horde to win! do u understand english? now go make a new post about boosting pala bubbles and alliance racials. or even better go buy some skills

[Nitaya]

whos insulting now, im respecting forums and i wont continue ur bs, u said u gonna provide pics with the AV circus thats going in ur head... we dont need no balance in turtle do u understand that? we want only horde to win! do u understand english? now go make a new post about boosting pala bubbles and alliance racials. or even better go buy some skills

let me check your history, my friend:
"we wont miss ur lil winey chars...!"
"hes a spoiled child who needs a lesson"
"gtfo"
"no1 cares about ur opinion bro."
"gtfo and go play on blizz server"

So, that's your way of respecting others, huh.

But let me go back to the screenshots.

First, you mentioned alliance got more archers (or bowyers as you said) in the towers.
South bunker vs East tower:
https://snipboard.io/OfClrX.jpg
https://snipboard.io/XeuapP.jpg
Well it's 4 and for 4, same in the north vs west.
So it's simply not true, what you are saying

Now lets go with the backdooring, that it is indeed possible.
As there was not enough players. I asked a fellow horde player to do it quickly for me:
https://snipboard.io/ko1qeh.jpg charged from the base of the mountain
https://snipboard.io/NKx1t3.jpg going behind the commander
https://snipboard.io/9DgLkd.jpg clearing the GY
https://snipboard.io/dozPa0.jpg capping the flag. Elites are patrolling somewhere but not defending the flag.

So a horde player can cap the last gy within 3 minutes, alone without any kind of CC.

Also I have asked another fellow horde player (warlord rog with lots of experience) who actually reported the backdooring, here is the results
https://snipboard.io/tqLV28.jpg

Remark: I don't know them, but they were kind to help me out and to answer my question.

There you go, I proved my point. I expect the same from everybody.

[Zokk]

Haha this is hilarious seeing this guy trying to make a case that the Horde and Alli base is equally fortified and balanced.

The bridge is like 70 yrd stretch with a near death drop at each side, literal bottleneck, there is nothing like that on horde base.
You are in the clouds my friend.

[Ataika]

Haha this is hilarious seeing this guy trying to make a case that the Horde and Alli base is equally fortified and balanced.

The bridge is like 70 yrd stretch with a near death drop at each side, literal bottleneck, there is nothing like that on horde base.
You are in the clouds my friend.

the paladin boi trembling in fear after recent patch