Paladins got a rework, Warriors deserve one too

[Anonymouse123]

Just put a Paly behind a warrior with a 2H-Sword and see the Magic happen. Imagine a Warrior who does not struggle in a solo scenario, what do you think happens if that warrior has a support. I dont know, for me it sounds like you lack experience with classic warriors.

https://www.youtube.com/c/ChillnkillPVP/videos

Just watch some Videos from this R14 Warrior, how he uses his Cooldowns/Pots/Engi Items etc. there you can see what a Warrior can do without support.

Oh yea - as a horde warrior I love my paladin support backing me up...

[Anonymouse123]

- watch a rogue dominate with no consumables OR gear.

[Drubarrymooer]

Wait....aren't warriors the highest dps class in pve and one of the strongest pvp classes? Why would you make a melee have self sustaining other than their already present CD's like shield wall and defensive stance? Forgive my ignorance if I'm incorrect.

[Bigsmerf]

Wait....aren't warriors the highest dps class in pve and one of the strongest pvp classes? Why would you make a melee have self sustaining other than their already present CD's like shield wall and defensive stance? Forgive my ignorance if I'm incorrect.

Warrs are pretty easily CC'd and kited without consumes. But other than that arms is pretty good. Some warr mains just don't like that they're not the best at E V E R Y T H I N G.

[Boras]

I agree. Warriors should be buffed. They can't solo naxx on their own yet. They need to be able to cast free heals and have an ability with no cd that makes it so they can't be cc'd and they automatically kill the target. Just one point in the fury talent tree in row 1 should do it.

[Redmagejoe]

I agree. Warriors should be buffed. They can't solo naxx on their own yet. They need to be able to cast free heals and have an ability with no cd that makes it so they can't be cc'd and they automatically kill the target. Just one point in the fury talent tree in row 1 should do it.

You forgot to post this as Myclassisbroken or whatever that uninspired troll's name is.

[Rat2156]

Wait....aren't warriors the highest dps class in pve and one of the strongest pvp classes? Why would you make a melee have self sustaining other than their already present CD's like shield wall and defensive stance? Forgive my ignorance if I'm incorrect.

Warrs are pretty easily CC'd and kited without consumes. But other than that arms is pretty good. Some warr mains just don't like that they're not the best at E V E R Y T H I N G.

Warrior mains are the kind of people upset that their melee attacks don't have 40y range

[Czasku]

Ye, i know this thread is kinda old but people should understand that 1v1 was never a thing. Classic is balanced around battlegrounds and guess what; it works. So instead of crying you cant 1v1 a hunter or mage focus on making useless abilities like rend and useless talents like blood craze actually useful and how rage generation works based on weapon speed instead of damage dealt.

[Getplucked]

Vanilla PvP is not balanced around 1v1. Hell, it's not really balanced around anything. It's unbalanced in general.

Warrior is already one of the strongest classes in PvE and PvP. You don't need "reworks" or buffs. Shoo.

[Getplucked]

- watch a rogue dominate with no consumables OR gear.

This isn't 1.12 though, this is much earlier in vanilla when rogues were disgustingly broken and could perma-CC you, and a lot of their abilities (like Rupture and Eviscerate) were not based on weapon damage, hence why there are videos of rogues killing people with no gear other than a worn dagger in their main hand.

[Czasku]

Yes, warriors should get a rework. But that kind of rework which makes low geared warriors decent and godly geared warriors toned down. And guess what; it can be fixed with different rage generation formula. You can see how in tbc rage was "normalized" which made warriors drop from S tier dps to B tier.

[Manletow]

Just give us "Spell Reflect"

Correct. They need Spell Reflect to become C-Tier in PVP (aka still bottom tier. right now they are by themselves in D-Tier)

Also they could use a Buff to Blood Craze (this mostly affects PVP only) to give them more healing: 3% to at LEAST 6% healing.

With a healer (in their current state) they go from a D-Tier to a B-Tier. So still not even top tier.
Virtually any other class (especially ones that dont use mana) with a dedicated healer is still better imo.

P.S. Warrior should NEVER be A-Tier in PVP (in vanilla) as they are already overpowered in PVE. This would be unfair to dominate all aspects of the game.

However they could simply nerf Fury and then its not a problem.

[Feomatar]

As it stands right now, Warrior is one of the if not the weakest class in PvP if you don't have a pocket heal or a toolbox full of consumables and trinkets tailored to specific PvP matchups.

You need Frost Reflector up to be able to win against Hunter.
You need FAP to win against Mages and Druids.
You need at least a Greater Holy Protection Potion to win against Ret.
You need to use https://classic.wowhead.com/item=13347/ ... -zin-malor + Sippy or a Resto Pot to be able to beat an aff WL with Succ.
You need trinket up or Living Action to win vs Rogue full stunlock rotation, or be Dwarf. This applies to all classes, except Warlock, Hunter and Paladin.

Without these specific countermeasures you lose those matchups with 0 counterplay possible. In other words, if you don't cheese, you lose.

Of course, this only applies to opponents who play their class to their full extent and know what they are doing. It's easy to kill a WL who tries to fear a Warr and gets gormlessly slaughtered.

In general, it's easy to make out two main problems Warriors have in PvP: The complete lack of self-sustain, no damage mitigation except Shieldwall (effectively removing your ability to deal damage since forced to wear shield, plus it's a ridiculously long CD for what it gives), and an utter susceptibility to CC while having little to no CC themself. Everything a tank should not be dealing with in PvP. On top of all of these problems, Warriors deal with really weird design choices that do not make any sense.
There are a lot of skills they have that other classes have, but they are just better.
For example, a Hunter's 'Wing Clip' slows by 10% more than a Warrior's 'Hamstring' ability, despite them being the same skill.
Retribution Paladins get 6% bonus damage on 2H weapons for 3 talent points, while Warriors only get 5% extra damage for >5< talent points. Hence why no arms Warrior really skills into that except to fill up to next tier maybe.
Retribution Paladins also have a straight up better version of any damaging ability a Warrior has (except execute) - Holy Strike. Which completely circumvents armor and resistances and easily crits for 2k with crappy gear.
Psychic Scream is just a straight up better version of Intimidating Shout, since you do not require to build up a high amount of rage first and it's a much shorter cooldown.
Rend is a joke.
Hamstring is a joke.
So is Thunderclap.
Not being able to charge while in combat is completely dumb aswell and against ranged classes, intercept for a single, long cooldown gap closer really doesn't cut it.
You can see mobs using those abilities and they are just a straight up better version and what seems to be the 'always intended' version, since they are actually useful. Rend doing more damage. Hamstring doing more damage and slowing by more %. Thunderclap doing decent damage and slowing attack speed AND movement speed by about 20-60% (That would be something for 'Improved Thunderclap' talent), just like it used to in Warcraft III. And before some wise guy comes up and tells me it's good for tanking: It's really not. It's just the only option to create AoE threat and barely works. There is a reason people put shield spikes on to hold AoE threat.

Those are all the problems the class greatly suffers from, especially in PvP.
Now I could go on and on about theorycrafting on how to make changes to make the class more well-rounded, because I have many ideas I think are great, but first I want to hear what other warrior players think and if they share any of my points. Because at first there has to be a demand for changes.

Thanks for reading my boo-hoo crypost.

unspeakable! you need consumables to win in consumables oriented pvp!? Andw hat rogue must use or buy to win warrior with full consumables and with decent gear, while you die from 1 overpower?

[Feomatar]

- watch a rogue dominate with no consumables OR gear.

So you send an old fart video vs terrible players, but why you doesnt want to link 100000$ tournament with best players of their classes where rogues was raped like puppets, include such rogues stars like Pshero? And its on blizz classic, not on turtle where all lases get freaking HUGE buffs and even wotlk talents and spells?!
So your point is to make balance relying on WORST players possible, not the best?

[Feomatar]

Just give us "Spell Reflect"

Correct. They need Spell Reflect to become C-Tier in PVP (aka still bottom tier. right now they are by themselves in D-Tier)

Also they could use a Buff to Blood Craze (this mostly affects PVP only) to give them more healing: 3% to at LEAST 6% healing.

With a healer (in their current state) they go from a D-Tier to a B-Tier. So still not even top tier.
Virtually any other class (especially ones that dont use mana) with a dedicated healer is still better imo.

P.S. Warrior should NEVER be A-Tier in PVP (in vanilla) as they are already overpowered in PVE. This would be unfair to dominate all aspects of the game.

However they could simply nerf Fury and then its not a problem.

Warrior always was s tier in bg with healers, what are u even talking about?

[Manletow]

Warrior always was s tier in bg with healers, what are u even talking about?

Yeah "Warrior is overpowered in PVP (with healer)" is a common sentiment held by people who have only watched YouTube highlight/clip videos and who have not actually seriously played vanilla PVP.

Warriors merely become VIABLE when they have a healer. They are still not great as smart PVPers will just kill the healer.
NPC Bosses are the things stupid enough to ignore healers. Not real people with basic common sense.

Literally any class in the game becomes vastly more successful with a pocket healer by the way.
This increase in power is not at all "exclusive" to Warrior.

P.S. Turtle WoW is especially hard on Warriors in PVP due to Paladins (extremely common) hardcountering them with Holy Strikes/Shocks ignoring plate armor to crit for usually around 2k + 1.2k damage.

[Feomatar]

Warrior always was s tier in bg with healers, what are u even talking about?

Yeah "Warrior is overpowered in PVP (with healer)" is a common sentiment held by people who have only watched YouTube highlight/clip videos and who have not actually seriously played vanilla PVP.

Warriors merely become VIABLE when they have a healer. They are still not great as smart PVPers will just kill the healer.
NPC Bosses are the things stupid enough to ignore healers. Not real people with basic common sense.

Literally any class in the game becomes vastly more successful with a pocket healer by the way.
This increase in power is not at all "exclusive" to Warrior.

P.S. Turtle WoW is especially hard on Warriors in PVP due to Paladins (extremely common) hardcountering them with Holy Strikes/Shocks ignoring plate armor to crit for usually around 2k + 1.2k damage.

Dude, dont try this on me pls, i know about vanilla pvp balance a lot.
Warriors with healers have more impact on bg than for example rogue with healer, or paladin with healer or basically anything with healer. I didnt say that especially on twow that warriors are fine - in twow rogues and warriors are in position of useless crap because they are basically meh in high skill pvp was already without buffs to another classes, but now, after huge buffs to another classes - they are just crap, yet STILL with healer warrior DO decent impact on bg's just.

[Volkyte]

Warriors are very good. (Gear notwistanding)
Pvp is not meant for 1v1 (hence why you got bg) and especially in vanilla wow.
Warriors are meant to go around with a pocket healer and in that case they are a solid force to reckon with.
Bear in mind that vanilla in pvp has no arena either (original vanilla) and was revolving in bg where you are 10+persons.

Another thing I dare to say is many ppl lack the tactical approach to pvp. Sure warrior can be cited non stop. But a smart warrior must chose proper consumables and approach to a fight. Many just charge and spam buttons which in pvp is a very poor choice.
In my small experience in turtle Warriors are very solid.

[Manletow]

Warriors are meant to go around with a pocket healer and in that case they are a solid force to reckon with.

No other class in the game *requires* another player to devote themselves entirely (heals and such) to them in order to have success.

You realize other players/classes are dying if they are not getting healed due to the selfish/needy Warrior *requiring/demanding* all the healing for themselves...?

If a class *requires* another player to even become *viable* then that class is fundamentally broken/weak and needs to be fixed.

Again, even with a Healer a Warrior is pretty impotent as players (with any brain whatsoever) will simply ignore the Warrior and kill their Healer.

Warrior is only useful for applying the overpowered "Mortal Strike" debuff -- other than that they suck in nearly all categories and need to be given new tools to address their countless weaknesses.

[Noephix]

No other class in the game *requires* another player to devote themselves entirely (heals and such) to them in order to have success.

Yeah, tell that to retri paladins who NEED windfury totem to do DPS and without it instantly drop back to 1.12 lolret (worst DPS in the game by far).

If a class *requires* another player to even become *viable* then that class is fundamentally broken/weak and needs to be fixed.

Retri paladin is fundamentally broken, underpowered and needs a buff. OK, got it.

Again, even with a Healer a Warrior is pretty impotent as players (with any brain whatsoever) will simply ignore the Warrior and kill their Healer.

You have Disarm, Hamstring, spell interrupt and a metric crapton of damage. Learn yo use your class FFS.

[Manletow]

tell that to retri paladins who NEED windfury totem to do DPS and without it instantly drop back to 1.12 lolret (worst DPS in the game by far).

no clue why you are talking about Raiding in a thread about PVP...?

Anyway in Vanilla 'Ret' talent tree was clearly focused on being the 'PvP spec". And it was viable in PVP.

In T-WoW they buffed Ret to the point of being A-Tier DPS in PVE as well.
(whilst their counterpart Enhancement Shaman remains merely C-Tier due to getting comparatively sensible/minor changes)

Point is: in my opinion Ret/Holy should not have been buffed to nearly the extent that it was. It was a mistake as it was/is a disaster for PVP balance.

Especially for Warriors who are ANNIHILATED by Holy Strikes/Shocks.

[Volkyte]

No other class in the game *requires* another player to devote themselves entirely (heals and such) to them in order to have success.

Yeah, tell that to retri paladins who NEED windfury totem to do DPS and without it instantly drop back to 1.12 lolret (worst DPS in the game by far).

If a class *requires* another player to even become *viable* then that class is fundamentally broken/weak and needs to be fixed.

Retri paladin is fundamentally broken, underpowered and needs a buff. OK, got it.

Again, even with a Healer a Warrior is pretty impotent as players (with any brain whatsoever) will simply ignore the Warrior and kill their Healer.

You have Disarm, Hamstring, spell interrupt and a metric crapton of damage. Learn yo use your class FFS.

With all due respect sir, you got no clue as a warrior in pvp is played.
Ignore the warrior? OK intercept disarm and mortal strike. Frost mage? Cool. Free action potion. Try ignore me now.
These are just little examples.
If you deem warrior is not viable check Incleave videos. (There are also for vanilla too.

[Bigsmerf]

No other class in the game *requires* another player to devote themselves entirely (heals and such) to them in order to have success.

Yeah, tell that to retri paladins who NEED windfury totem to do DPS and without it instantly drop back to 1.12 lolret (worst DPS in the game by far).

If a class *requires* another player to even become *viable* then that class is fundamentally broken/weak and needs to be fixed.

Retri paladin is fundamentally broken, underpowered and needs a buff. OK, got it.

Again, even with a Healer a Warrior is pretty impotent as players (with any brain whatsoever) will simply ignore the Warrior and kill their Healer.

You have Disarm, Hamstring, spell interrupt and a metric crapton of damage. Learn yo use your class FFS.

With all due respect sir, you got no clue as a warrior in pvp is played.
Ignore the warrior? OK intercept disarm and mortal strike. Frost mage? Cool. Free action potion. Try ignore me now.
These are just little examples.
If you deem warrior is not viable check Incleave videos. (There are also for vanilla too.

Intercept stun only lasts three seconds. Plus, plenty of classes still have tools to CC even when disarmed. Hammer of justice for paladin doesn't require a melee weapon, is one example. Druid's don't need ANY weapons to play their class at all. They're just stat sticks. The only one that would be hard countered by that (That I can think of at least) is rogue.

Now, as for solving frost mages with fap? Well, this could likely be countered relatively easy. Blink away, if you have the chance. Run for a bit. I guess that depends on if you're faster or not, what with enchants, consumes and such that situation can vary, but you could also just... Use your own fap too, since most warrior CC is stun and movement impairing, they don't have many options to counter it.

Anywhosie, we're getting off track. So, once you're at the end of your little chase, you ice block, wait out the last little bit, and voila, you've avoided the attacker for long enough to render that little magic beverage effectively useless, or close enough to being worn out that those few seconds left probably won't help much. Of course, this is all just speculation and theorycrafting done by someone who doesn't really know PvP.

But, come on. Did you really think you could win the "NO FR GUYS WARRIOR'S LIKE REALLY GOOD" argument with "Just intercept and disarm. Oh but I won't bother to explain who you should be using that on" and "Consumables make this class good. It's a darn good thing all the other classes with superior built in toolkits don't get access to all those special consumes and items that would make them even stronger."

[Ataika]

Yeah, tell that to retri paladins who NEED windfury totem to do DPS and without it instantly drop back to 1.12 lolret (worst DPS in the game by far).

Retri paladin is fundamentally broken, underpowered and needs a buff. OK, got it.

You have Disarm, Hamstring, spell interrupt and a metric crapton of damage. Learn yo use your class FFS.

With all due respect sir, you got no clue as a warrior in pvp is played.
Ignore the warrior? OK intercept disarm and mortal strike. Frost mage? Cool. Free action potion. Try ignore me now.
These are just little examples.
If you deem warrior is not viable check Incleave videos. (There are also for vanilla too.

Intercept stun only lasts three seconds. Plus, plenty of classes still have tools to CC even when disarmed. Hammer of justice for paladin doesn't require a melee weapon, is one example. Druid's don't need ANY weapons to play their class at all. They're just stat sticks. The only one that would be hard countered by that (That I can think of at least) is rogue.

Now, as for solving frost mages with fap? Well, this could likely be countered relatively easy. Blink away, if you have the chance. Run for a bit. I guess that depends on if you're faster or not, what with enchants, consumes and such that situation can vary, but you could also just... Use your own fap too, since most warrior CC is stun and movement impairing, they don't have many options to counter it.

Anywhosie, we're getting off track. So, once you're at the end of your little chase, you ice block, wait out the last little bit, and voila, you've avoided the attacker for long enough to render that little magic beverage effectively useless, or close enough to being worn out that those few seconds left probably won't help much. Of course, this is all just speculation and theorycrafting done by someone who doesn't really know PvP.

But, come on. Did you really think you could win the "NO FR GUYS WARRIOR'S LIKE REALLY GOOD" argument with "Just intercept and disarm. Oh but I won't bother to explain who you should be using that on" and "Consumables make this class good. It's a darn good thing all the other classes with superior built in toolkits don't get access to all those special consumes and items that would make them even stronger."

geared warriors hit like trucks, what are you trying to say ?
warrior under healer is not a killing machine ?

Requests to buff warriors in pvp might come only from these pve guys who rarely sniff any battleground with geared players.

[Bigsmerf]

With all due respect sir, you got no clue as a warrior in pvp is played.
Ignore the warrior? OK intercept disarm and mortal strike. Frost mage? Cool. Free action potion. Try ignore me now.
These are just little examples.
If you deem warrior is not viable check Incleave videos. (There are also for vanilla too.

Intercept stun only lasts three seconds. Plus, plenty of classes still have tools to CC even when disarmed. Hammer of justice for paladin doesn't require a melee weapon, is one example. Druid's don't need ANY weapons to play their class at all. They're just stat sticks. The only one that would be hard countered by that (That I can think of at least) is rogue.

Now, as for solving frost mages with fap? Well, this could likely be countered relatively easy. Blink away, if you have the chance. Run for a bit. I guess that depends on if you're faster or not, what with enchants, consumes and such that situation can vary, but you could also just... Use your own fap too, since most warrior CC is stun and movement impairing, they don't have many options to counter it.

Anywhosie, we're getting off track. So, once you're at the end of your little chase, you ice block, wait out the last little bit, and voila, you've avoided the attacker for long enough to render that little magic beverage effectively useless, or close enough to being worn out that those few seconds left probably won't help much. Of course, this is all just speculation and theorycrafting done by someone who doesn't really know PvP.

But, come on. Did you really think you could win the "NO FR GUYS WARRIOR'S LIKE REALLY GOOD" argument with "Just intercept and disarm. Oh but I won't bother to explain who you should be using that on" and "Consumables make this class good. It's a darn good thing all the other classes with superior built in toolkits don't get access to all those special consumes and items that would make them even stronger."

geared warriors hit like trucks, what are you trying to say ?
warrior under healer is not a killing machine ?

Requests to buff warriors in pvp might come only from these pve guys who rarely sniff any battleground with geared players.

A truck with a flat tire, yes. Doesn't matter how hard you hit if you can't touch what you're trying to swing at. Not to mention building rage before you can bust out the big crits. And as Manlet has reiterated time and time again. All classes are powerful with healers.

[Manletow]

A truck with a flat tire, yes.
Doesn't matter how hard you hit if you can't touch what you're trying to swing at.
Not to mention building rage before you can bust out the big crits.
And as Manlet has reiterated time and time again. All classes are powerful with healers.

Not to mention that a Warrior can't reliably 'Intercept into a Disarm' as Disarm is 10 rage and restricted to Defensive Stance.

It's possible of course... just painfully awkward and unintuitive + requires 5 talent points in Tactical Mastery.

As for 'big crits' even these are rather rare as Warriors attacks are all generic physical attacks that are heavily reduced by armored targets and mitigated by parry/block/etc.

Even if a Warrior manages to catch someone often times they are hitting for relatively weaksauce DPS.

Anywho, yet another thing about Warriors that makes them weak (compared to other classes) is that Rage is not retained on death. So other classes constantly respawn with full power/mana/energy while Warrior respawns at their weakest (no rage).

[Bandyc]

low iq rambling

Dude is a troll and/or doesnt even play warrior. Just put him on ignore him really.

Swap to defstance, disarm then swap back. The rest of what he wrote is just rambling.

[Xanwow]

From my very limited experience with warrior it seems that the phrase "gear dependent" holds true in 1 v 1 pvp.

Its kinda annoying because other classes with somewhat mediocre gear have a kit that lets them absolutely demolish a warrior with equivalent gear.

It seems that many of the classes here have been given something custom that boosts them in pvp if they were lacking in classic. (Idk why SPriests got pain spike, they were already the kings of 1v1)

The issue seems to be that warriors severely lack endurance, you basically have blow CDs and hope you can crush your opponent before they have a chance to escape and wear you down. Their 1 on 1 sucks, but if they have a support they excel. There seems to be no middle ground, and I think there is a good opportunity to buff them for solo play.

After diamond flask has been nerfed, it seems like there is nothing that gives warriors sticking power when solo.

Example talent ideas:

Blood Hunger:
Increases healing from Vampirism by 50%/75%/100% but reduces healing from external sources by 75%/66%/50%

Self Triage:
While bandaging you are immune from damage over time interrupts and have a 5/10/15% chance of removing enemy debuffs.

[Bigsmerf]

low iq rambling

Dude is a troll and/or doesnt even play warrior. Just put him on ignore him really.

Swap to defstance, disarm then swap back. The rest of what he wrote is just rambling.

Sorry, I've spent the past five minutes digging around and searching this reply to find a legitimate counterargument.

Are you trolling the troll? Reverse trolling? Or am I just stupid and missing the point? This genuinely confuses me.

[Sideburns]

for me i just want two changes, Make charge usable in combat and add some hit chance in talent tree

[Sinrek]

Except for the Avatar that I suggested for prot warriors in the suggestions section, I understand that it won't help pvp warriors in general, because prot spec is dead anyway.
And I know what they are very bursting in pvp in relation to control - this is Second Wind.



And not as a talent, but as a general passive for all specs. Because if give it to one spec only,
then that one will 100% become as a main pvp spec. It is better to give them all at once.

Warriors won't have spell reflect in vanilla but. But standing in nova they will still shoot and regenerate.

This.

I'd advocate for Victory Rush learned through some gruesome quest with waves of different types of mobs to teach warrior on how to use it properly. Let's assume Devs know how to make a temporary skill for quest completion and permanent one as well. Quest could be a similar to priest's benediction type where you'd have to solo waves in some gloomy cave or a dungeon to have the permanent skill as a reward.

Each race got a cave for lvl 10 btw. EZ done. Do yeah it could be a lvl 12 quest. Might even be timed quest.

Second Wind or Victory Rush. I'd vote for Victory Rush.

[Ninjerk]

From my very limited experience with warrior it seems that the phrase "gear dependent" holds true in 1 v 1 pvp.

Its kinda annoying because other classes with somewhat mediocre gear have a kit that lets them absolutely demolish a warrior with equivalent gear.

It seems that many of the classes here have been given something custom that boosts them in pvp if they were lacking in classic. (Idk why SPriests got pain spike, they were already the kings of 1v1)

The issue seems to be that warriors severely lack endurance, you basically have blow CDs and hope you can crush your opponent before they have a chance to escape and wear you down. Their 1 on 1 sucks, but if they have a support they excel. There seems to be no middle ground, and I think there is a good opportunity to buff them for solo play.

After diamond flask has been nerfed, it seems like there is nothing that gives warriors sticking power when solo.

Example talent ideas:

Blood Hunger:
Increases healing from Vampirism by 50%/75%/100% but reduces healing from external sources by 75%/66%/50%

Self Triage:
While bandaging you are immune from damage over time interrupts and have a 5/10/15% chance of removing enemy debuffs.

I think this about nails it, and I am more on the side of not adding active abilities. I think the key is adding utility to things we already have that would expand the possiblities for their use, e.g. a deep Arms talent that adds a cooldown to Demoralizing Shout that reduces enemies' chance to hit with spells and/or melee/ranged attacks by some percentage that allows the warrior to draw the engagement out against casters if they get the charge or find a way to get close to the caster mid-engagement. Also has the drawback of not being spammable to draw out rogues, increasing build diversity.

[Galindae]

just make on protection tree on block gain 1 rage
and revenge hit 2-3 aditional targets. (if tank need go full into offensive tree to have agro its mean something is wrong with prot tree).
dps for war is fine. (i have no idea why here for arms wars ask buff while in ather forum ask to nerf arms warriors because of speed from weapon if ppl ask buff pvp warr)
give proper taunt 8-10 feet to all tanks. (paladin included)
isnt that so hard to make tank life easer?

[Jc473]

How about these ideas to make warriors better in PvP:

Taunt - Make it so this effects players. At minimum, what it if forced the player to target it you for 3 seconds? Furthering that, what if the player was forced to move towards you and auto attack you for the duration as well? I think this would be an interesting option for warriors in PvP. It would give the warrior more options and certainly encourage more prot warriors to PvP...

Spell Deflect - A baseline ability to increase the durability of all warriors. Smallish cooldown (15 seconds?) and requires a shield & defensive stance. To be clear, this would be similar to a grounding totem where it nulifies a spell completely. Perhaps this a deep prot talent (at least 21 points) could convert this into a 'Spell Reflect'.

[Bigsmerf]

just make on protection tree on block gain 1 rage
and revenge hit 2-3 aditional targets. (if tank need go full into offensive tree to have agro its mean something is wrong with prot tree).
dps for war is fine. (i have no idea why here for arms wars ask buff while in ather forum ask to nerf arms warriors because of speed from weapon if ppl ask buff pvp warr)
give proper taunt 8-10 feet to all tanks. (paladin included)
isnt that so hard to make tank life easer?

This is a PvP discussion. Arms warrior, and warrior in general is shit in PvP. That is the issue at hand. Nobody brought up tanking. At least stay on topic or make your own thread if you're going to make unrelated suggestions.