Changing & Re-balacing the Paladin's trees without complicating much and some new Racial Spells ideas.

[Papum]

To start i'm trying to do the changes as less invasive as possible to the already existing trees as if to implement them it would be easy to do so, hope you read till the end before commenting.


--Overall Class Changes--

01 - 'Exorcism' -- Changed to now be on an 2 sec. cast time spell without CD and works on all targets, yet if the target is an demon or undead it will still give bonus damage as before.

02 - Seals -- Now have a buff timer of 5 min instead of 20 sec. similiar to Shaman weapon buffs.

03 - 'Seal of justice' -- Now states 'Fills the Paladin with the spirit of justice for 300 sec, giving each melee attack a chance to stun for 2 sec. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 10 sec, preventing them from fleeing and reducing all movement speed bonuses to 0. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.'. (This will help with the addition of having the 'Pursuit of Justice' talent to catch up with targets, because of the lacking of an meanfull gap closer for the Retribution and Protection Paladin, will work for pvp and probably pve aswell)

04- 'Judgement' -- Now states 'Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell upon an enemy without consuming the Seal. Refer to individual Seals for Judgement effect.'.

05- 'Blessings' -- Buff timer are now 30 min for minor variant and 1 hour for reagent variant. (can't stress enough how short the durantion is causing a lot of inconvience for a lot of reasons for the player [downtime, mana, etc. ...] and other players wich simply don't benefit at all from the short time they have it to the time they start actually doing something like questing and farming after traveling a bit to the location from where they initially received the buff from the Paladin, etc. ...)

06- Change 'Blessing of Protection', '... Freedom', '... Sacrifice' and '... Salvation' into 'Hands of ...', so not to overwrite longterm Blessings everytime they are used. (Saves a lot of mana)

07- Hands (Blessing) of Salvation -- Now states 'Reduces a flat % of threath from the target.'.

07- 'Righteous Fury' -- Now states 'Increases the threat generated by your Holy attacks by 60%. It also causes Holy damage to any creature that strikes you.'. (Incorporated the Retribution Aura ability into this, the holy damage scales with newly created ranks)

08- 'Sanctity Aura' -- Removed from the Holy tree and game, and it's ability is made baseline into the 'Retribution Aura' instead of the 'Retribution Aura''s previous ability. Also change the current icon from the 'Retribution Aura' to the 'Sanctity Aura' one .

09- Merge all resistance's auras into one only 'Resistance Aura' scaling by level accordingly.

10- Add 'Crusader Aura' -- States 'increases Mounted speed for the party' at level 40 to fill in the vacant Aura spaces.


-Paladin Racial Spells-

Human --

'Hand of Fervored Ressurection' states 'Put an magical buff on the target called Hand of Fervored Ressurection when it has 50% or less health that cannot be dispell for 1 min.. When accepting the ressurection the player will gain health by 50% and mana by 50% or resource by 33% (works as the soulstone mechanic for the ressurection prompt), the player will also gains the Fervored soul Aura buff for 20 sec. and is displayed as an holy'ish yellow soul link from the ressurected player to the casting player during the duration of the ability. wich states: You deal and receives half damage. And if you die of damage, when 20 sec. has passed or you stray to far from the casting player (wich will end the soul link display, range of normal auras) you will die and gain the Exhausted Soul debuff wich prevents you from receiving an Hand of Fervored Ressurection buff for the duration of 10 min wich persists throuh death. When dying this way you will not receive equipment damage and will not be able to trigger on death abilities (like to priest Spirit of Redemption ability).' Cost: 21% Base Mana, Cooldown: 10 Minute. (Based of the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne's human's human hero unit the Paladin's Mass Ressurection spell that was an combat type of ressurection mixed with the WoTLK expansion's hand's blessing system. [ http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/un ... adin.shtml ])
or
'Defend' states 'Increases your physical damage reduction by 15%, chance to block by and parry by 10%. When parried it will reflect an portion of the received physical damage back to the attacker. The damage caused by Defend will not exceed 50% of the Paladin's total health, and has 10% reduced movement speed for the duration, for 15 sec.'. Cost: 21% Base Mana, Cooldown: 10 Minute. (Based of the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne's human's human army unit the Footmen. Could be used for the Human Warrior Racial Spell [ http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/un ... tman.shtml ])

Dwarf --
'Storm Bolt' states 'An magical hammer that is thrown at an enemy unit, causing damage, stunning and silencing the target for 3 sec..'. Cost: 21% Base Mana, Cooldown: 5 Minute. (Based of the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne's human's dwarven hero unit the Mountain King. Altough its more an warrior type of unit the ability states "A magical hammer that is thrown at an enemy unit, causing damage and stunning the target.", so being magical in nature it is more suited for an Paladin than an Warrior. And also because it's related to lightning because of the storm in it's name it causes an paralyzing effect on the body so the brain aswell thats why the silence. I also could have used the Avatar ability but preferred to let it be an option for the Dwarf Warrior Racial Spell [ http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/un ... king.shtml ])

High Elf --
'Spell Steal' states 'Steals all positive magic buffs from the target enemy and applies it to self and takes all negative magic debuffs from self and applies it to target enemy.'. Cost: 21% Base Mana, Cooldown: 5 Minutes. (Probably restrict this from being used on certain boss abilities. Based of the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne's human's high elven army unit the Spell Breaker, an magical armored sword and shield weilding unit, lore wise at the point this unit was first revealed it was in an campaign where the high elfs led by Kael'thas considered themself already blood elf's and broken off from the Alliance but they had not yet met with Illidan or consumed fell energy so you can assume this unit was basicly an default high elven army combat unit as in skirmishes, etc. ..., it is part of the human arsenal to play games with. [ http://classic.battle.net/war3/human/un ... aker.shtml ])


-Class Tree Bloatness-

Every spec tree should have X amount of possible talent points to spend that is 46 points total, this is important because it will render a certain class spec to be able to spend more or less than the other spec's. Normally it is build like this 5 | 5 = 10 at first row, 5 | 5 = 10 at second row, 5 | 5 = 10 at third row, 5 at fourth row, 5 at fifth row and finally 1 at last row, yet there can be variations from the basic structucture ex.: 2 | 3 | 5 or also you can found the missing points of an row in an other upper or below adjecent row. So now you can have an balance tree ( tree with exactly 46 points to be able to spend), an tree that is bloated (talent tree with above the 46 able points to spend) and underbloated that is the opposite of the bloated tree. Currently the ingame talent trees have an bloatness as follow Holy = Underbloated by 1 point | Protection Overbloated by 4 points | Retribution Overbloated by 1 point. I will adress this below at the talent tree changes and correct it aswell with rearranging talents or putting new talents.


--Holy Tree Changes--

- First row remains unchanged.

- Second row changes:
'Spiritual focus' 5/5 -- Now states 'Gives your Flash of Light, Holy Light spells and Exorcism a 14%/28%/42%/56%/70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage and reduce the cast time of your Exorcism spell by 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 sec.'.

'Improved Seal of Righteousness' 5/5 -- Now renamed to 'Protector's Offensive' and now states 'Increases the damage done by your Seal of Righteousness, Judgement of Righteousness and Exorcism by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%, reduceses the amount healed by your Holy Light, Flash of Light, and the effectiveness Holy Shock spells by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%. Also gives an -2% spellpower penalty for each none plate, none mail item worn.'. (Gives more offensive power to the holy spec but at the cost of healing and also prevents stacking cloth spellpower on the Paladin)

- Third row changes:
'Sancity Aura' 1/1 removed and *New* talent -- 'Long arm of the Law' 2/2 and states 'Increases the range of your Judgments spell by 10/20 yards and allows your Judgement spell to apply Crusader Strike stacks equal to the highest level of Crusader Strike you have.'. (Here we balance out the underbloatness of the Holy tree, and also gives ranged offensive Holy the ability to stack crusader strike stacks and Retribution an manner to manage better its mana output, yet when needed for switching targets and/or an quik buildup of stacks it will still require using the melee variant of Crusader strike normally. Also it allows for Holy to be able to put 'Judgement of Light' effect on an target from an safe distance and keep it up)

- Fourth row changes:
'Illumination' 5/5 -- Now states 'After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light, Holy Light, Holy Shock or Exorcism spell, gives you a 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.'.

- Fifth row changes:
'Divine Favor' 1/1 -- Now states 'When activated, gives your next Flash of Light, Holy Light, Holy Shock or Exorcism spell a 100% critical effect chance.'.

- Sixth row remains unchanged.

- Seventh row changes:
'Holy Shock' 1/1 -- Now states 'Focuses most of it's Holy energy and Blasts the target with it, causing 277/379/496 to 300/410/537 Holy damage to an enemy, or 351/480/628 to 380/519/681 healing to an ally. This also reducess the effectivness of your Holy Strike ability's damage by 50%.' (This will prevent overburst damage trough the Holy Shock ability in the offensive Holy spec and as stated on the tooltip it focuses its energy so other offensive holy powers become less efective. By the way cuddos to Hyrag for the ideia)


--Protection Tree Changes--

- First row changes:
'Improved Devotion Aura' 5/5 -- Moved to second row.

'Precision' 3/3 -- Moved from second row. (causes to free up points and not having to waste points into nearly ussueless talents to get this talent for Retribution and Offensive Holy spec's)

'Guardian's Favor' 2/2 -- Moved from the second row.

- Second row changes:
'Precision' 3/3 -- Moved to first row.

'Guardian's Favor' 2/2 -- Moved to first row.

'Improved Devotion Aura' 5/5 -- Moved from first row and now states 'Also Increases the physical reduction of your Devotion Aura by 1%/2%/3%/4%/5%.'. (This will finally give reasons for Protection Paladins to use and invest into their clearly intended Aura)

- Third row changes:
'Blessing of Sanctuary' 1/1 -- Now states 'Places a Blessing on the friendly target, reducing damage dealt from all sources by up to 7/10/14/20/35 + 1%/1.5%/2%/2.5%/3% for 1800 sec.. In addition, increase the amount healed by 1%/2%/3%/4%/5%. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.'. (The damage reduction calculation is the scaling of ranks)

'Improved Righteous Fury' 3/3 -- Changed to 1/1 and now states 'Increases the amount of threat generated by your Righteous Fury spell by 50%. Also in addition, when the player blocks a melee attack the attacker will take 10/14/21/28/35 Holy damage.'. (Added part of the former 'Blessing of Sanctuary' ability into this. This also removes 2 point of bloatness from the tree by reducing it to 1/1)

- Fourth row changes:
'Improved Seal of Justice' 3/3 -- Changed to 1/1 and now states 'Increases the chance your Seal of Justice will stun the opponent by 15% and your Judgement of Justice has a 100% chance to taunt your target to attack you, but has no effect if the target is already attacking you.'. (This removes 2 point of bloatness from the tree by reducing it to 1/1)

- Fifth row changes:
'Reckoning' 5/5 -- Merged into Eye for an Eye talent in the Retribution tree (For an spec/tree that specializes in reducing/avoiding receiving criticals this talent isn't the best at home here)

'One-Handed Weapon Specialization' 5/5 -- Moved from sixth row.

- Sixth row changes:
'One-Handed Weapon Specialization' 5/5 -- Moved to fifth row.

*New* talent -- 'Divine Endurance' 5/5 states 'The Divine Protection spell will now instead reduce 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of damage taken from all sources for the duration of the spell, put Divine Intervention also on an 5 min CD.'. (Makes use of an ability that disappears from use after reaching certain treshold at leveling)

- Seventh row remains unchanged.


--Retribution Tree Changes--

- First row remains unchanged.

- Second row remains unchanged.

- Third row changes:
'Pursuit of Justice' 2/2 -- Changed to 1/1 and now states 'Increases movement and mounted movement speed by 8%. This does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects.'. (Removed 1 point from here to easy point spending for the other specs into gettting this talent and the removed point will be used to create an new talent in the fourth row)

- Fourth row changes:
'Reckoning' 5/5 -- Removed from the Protection tree's fifth row and merged into Retribution's fourth row 'Eye for an Eye' talent.

'Eye for an Eye' 2/2 -- Merged 'Reckoning' talent with this and now states 'All spell criticals against you cause 15%/30% of the damage taken to the caster as well. The damage caused by Eye for an Eye will not exceed 50% of the Paladin's total health and gives you a 50%/100% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a physical critical strike.'. (Merged the 'Reckoning' talent from the protection tree into the 'Eye for an Eye' talent but changed it to only activate on physical damage criticals instead)

'Improved retribution Aura' 2/2 -- Changed to 'Gives an extra 1.5%/3% to ranged, melee and spell's damage.'.

*New* talent -- 'Sanctified Weapon' 1/1 and states 'Imbues the Paladin with holy energy. Each of the Paladin's melee attacks or offensive spells casts has a chance of causing the caster to enter a Holy Infusion state for 20 sec.. The Holy Infusion state enables you to cast your next Exorcism or Flash of light as if an instant, if Exorcism was used it will put an 15 sec. CD timer on the Exorcism spell and if Flash of light was used it will have an reduced effectiveness of 10% of healing done.'. (Enables Retribution some extra damage without it being an controlled burst on a chance and timer, and Protection the ability to cast an Flash of Light while tanking or do extra single target threat with an instant Exorcism and holy to be able to help incentivize using judgements as part of their new rotation to place the healing or mana return buff on targets from afar and the chance to be able to cast an instant Flash of Light or the offensive build for holy can use this to also cast an instant Flash of Light or an instant Exorcism but at the expense of locking it out for 15 sec.. Also if Exorcism this way seems to bursty or is dealing to much damage you can put and spelldamage debuff on use, like the healing debuff on Flash of Light)

- Fifth row changes:
'Two-handed Weapon Specialization' 3/3 -- Now states 'Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 2%/4%/6%. Also while an two-handed weapon is equiped, reduce all your threat generated by 8%/16%/25%.'.

'Seal of Command' 1/1 -- Now states 'Gives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 300 sec.. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, putting an debuff that stacks 5 times to instantly causing X to Y Holy damage depending on the number of debuff stacked currently on the enemy target, debuff stacks have a 30 sec. timer and are not shareable among players.'. (No more high instant damage output in pvp and better damage output in prolonged fights in pve, to reach the before output damage you will need about 32 to 40 sec. to reach full stack to do the same damage as before when stunned, depending on talents)

'Sanctified Command' 2/2 -- Changed to 1/1. (This removes 1 point of bloatness from the tree by reducing it to 1/1)

- Sixth row remains unchanged.

- Seventh row changes:
'Repentence' 1/1 -- Now states 'Puts the enemy target in a state of meditation, incapacitating them for up to 6 sec. in pvp and 60 sec. in pve. Any damage caused will awaken the target. Usable against Demons, Dragonkin, Giants, and Humanoids.'.


Thank you for your time.


Special:
Wanted to add an extra as i see alot popping to the suggestiong of extending blessing's timers, while even blizz game designers admited it was an error to have kept them on such short timers in comparison to other classes long timers buf times for so long that they adressed it after Vanilla WoW to the extent they even overhauled most timers of all classes buffs to be longer in time, and guess what it was welcomed almost universally with open arms by the whole retail gaming community at the time, less the special niche (P)(o)(T)(T)(Y) players.

"Blessings being 30 Minutes is also something i do absolutely disagree with. Paladin and Shaman buffs are much stronger than Druid Priest or Mage buffs, you should not have the ability to buff people with these extremely potent buffs all the time when not grouped with them. And the manacosts of blessings are small enough where we can just reapply them mid combat easily. something the 30 min buffs can not. Buffing the big ones is fine, as they fade when someone leaves the paladins party, but the small ones should never be more than maybe 10 minutes" - Random player.

"Druid buff > Might for ex. (wich is an ap stat buff like the priest's stamina stat buff or the mage intelect stat buff, wich gives mana and crit % for spellcasting indirectly), and its a quality of life change for the player and other players". - Response to that.
These are the small things were you can see from where the who that is giving the suggestion is coming from, if it is an experienced paladin player of many years and an not main class paladin player or simply not many time invested in it. Could also be the (P)ower (o)f (T)rolling (T)o (Y)ou, it's really strong in some people. ^^

[Czasku]

My proposition is simple: Remove Paladins from the game.

[Papum]

My proposition is simple: Remove Paladins from the game.

How do you recomend to fill the gap afterwards of such change? An suggestion is only as good as the ability to suggest a better option? Less nothing of value was said.

[Calli]

This is very complicated, changing basically almost everything. Also it is very strong, we don't want hpals going on the offensive with casting exorcism with unlimited mana.

[Batey9]

This has the same problem as the ideas I have. They basically require a complete class overhaul. So, it'll never be done. Also that High Elf racial is way too strong in PvP and practically useless in PvE. Also that Holy Shock change is a non-change. All that means is you do Holy Strike before Holy Shock in the burst rotation. The next Holy Strike after with the debuff no longer matters because the target is already dead. It's a useless nerf. The biggest problem with Paladin burst is the double dipping formulas. Not so much the abilities themselves.

[Grizb37]

Dear God, paladins are already busted in PVP

[Atreidon]

First of all, i would always add a motivation for why you think these changes are necessary.
Because i can see no reason that would necessetate such wide reaching paladin changes.
Holy Paladin is a fine choice for any content thanks to its high survivability and decent damage output for a healer spec, Protection paladin is perfectly serviceable since the addition of crit resistence items and is only hampered a bit by having to gear for it.
While the Retchanges proposed do noting to make his subpar pve performance better without totems and at the same time give the most uncompetetive PvP spec access to Reckoning. While in PvE forcing you to play buffbot to casters with improved sanctity, rather than being placed with the melees where you want to be.

These are sweeping changes that have no real need to be in the game, as the only "problem" they solve for paladin is his lack of good sustainable range damage. Something he absolutely should not have, much less on his holy spec which is already a powerhouse.

Blessings being 30 Minutes is also something i do absolutely disagree with. Paladin and Shaman buffs are much stronger than Druid Priest or Mage buffs, you should not have the ability to buff people with these extremely potent buffs all the time when not grouped with them. And the manacosts of blessings are small enough where we can just reapply them mid combat easily. something the 30 min buffs can not. Buffing the big ones is fine, as they fade when someone leaves the paladins party, but the small ones should never be more than maybe 10 minutes

[Wrathweaver]

1: Invasive

2:Very invasive, will change everything into a system that feels Locked and less Free/Flexible. Wotk Crushed the class. No Streamlining.

3: Adding some Damage on Seal of Justice Judgement might make it a bit Relevant in Solo Content, would be fun to have an Extra seal to Rotate. Perhaps a very nerfed version of the Stun Chance could remain on Judgement. normal timer though.

4:No Streamlining.

6:Worst case greater blessings could be a bit longer or make a new spell at 60 that is longer but requires more mats, minor remains 5min.15-30 min feels horrible in my opinion and any server that does this i will stay away from.That mindset reveals a very Destructive Mentality that will Drain all of the Fun out of the game over time.


Might read the rest and comment more after i have painted the washing machine blue and eaten dinner on the toilet. Straight in, straight out, saves a lot of time. Life hack. I have no respect for people who dont do this, saves up to 20min.

[Papum]

This is very complicated, changing basically almost everything. Also it is very strong, we don't want hpals going on the offensive with casting exorcism with unlimited mana.

It acctually is very simple when ingame implemented and the changes are not that different to the current playstyle and abilities used, just fine tuned to what you'r used to playing. Maybe all the text has you confused that it is really complicated. And read everything again the balance is adressed at the suggestions, i really don't see where in this thread it states unlimited mana or holy healing paladins getting offensive, you just now get and offensive none healing focused pala. Maybe you were imagining things?

[Papum]

This has the same problem as the ideas I have. They basically require a complete class overhaul. So, it'll never be done. Also that High Elf racial is way too strong in PvP and practically useless in PvE. Also that Holy Shock change is a non-change. All that means is you do Holy Strike before Holy Shock in the burst rotation. The next Holy Strike after with the debuff no longer matters because the target is already dead. It's a useless nerf. The biggest problem with Paladin burst is the double dipping formulas. Not so much the abilities themselves.

True i came to the same conclusion as you did yet didn't want to gimp completly the ability, but you make a point. I already adressed and changed the ability to reflect that.

The Helf racial is very situational yes, for ex.: In PVP it might take an casters buffs and throw at their debuffs and dots back at them (be it damage or mana drain from hunter, etc...), or an buffed mellee to just and only steal their buffs from them and not giving them anything (so again situational), almost similiar to the shaman's purge but it goes to the paladin instead on an a 5 minute timer instead of an instant spamming ability. The paladin mostly have huge problems with kiting players due to not have an efficient gap closener that are mostly hunters and casters so this might easy the edge a bit from that.
In PVE there are a lot of mobs that buff them selfs with all sort of buffs (wich you can now get) or throw debuffs at you be it damage or otherwise (like a magical snare, slowing or an damage debuff and reflect it back at them). So its usefull in PVE aswell. You don't really want to make big class changes in the PVE environment with racial spells that much, just a interested fun gimmick on a reasonable long timer.

[Papum]

Dear God, paladins are already busted in PVP

You didn't even read the thread it seems to be suggesting what your saying. That was adressed if you had done your reading properly.

[Papum]

First of all, i would always add a motivation for why you think these changes are necessary.
Because i can see no reason that would necessetate such wide reaching paladin changes.
Holy Paladin is a fine choice for any content thanks to its high survivability and decent damage output for a healer spec, Protection paladin is perfectly serviceable since the addition of crit resistence items and is only hampered a bit by having to gear for it.
While the Retchanges proposed do noting to make his subpar pve performance better without totems and at the same time give the most uncompetetive PvP spec access to Reckoning. While in PvE forcing you to play buffbot to casters with improved sanctity, rather than being placed with the melees where you want to be.

These are sweeping changes that have no real need to be in the game, as the only "problem" they solve for paladin is his lack of good sustainable range damage. Something he absolutely should not have, much less on his holy spec which is already a powerhouse.

Blessings being 30 Minutes is also something i do absolutely disagree with. Paladin and Shaman buffs are much stronger than Druid Priest or Mage buffs, you should not have the ability to buff people with these extremely potent buffs all the time when not grouped with them. And the manacosts of blessings are small enough where we can just reapply them mid combat easily. something the 30 min buffs can not. Buffing the big ones is fine, as they fade when someone leaves the paladins party, but the small ones should never be more than maybe 10 minutes

Well my proposition comes from years of playing the class and ideias that are functional to the half disfunctional class you currently have, if you played it even now you would now. Yet many changes were implemented in an form or other even by blizz developers till the WoTLK expansion, so in a way you'r stating that even those people were incompetent to have reached such conclusions?

Druid buff > Might for ex. (wich is an ap stat buff like the priest's stamina stat buff or the mage intelect stat buff, wich gives mana and crit % for spellcasting indirectly), and its a quality of life change for the player and other players, This is the things were you can see who is giving the suggestion if it is an real paldin player from years of experience or an casual, not main class player.

[Atreidon]

Ah old trusty ad hominem arguments.
I cleared naxxramas on my paladin, got bloodring exalted, am on the way to my second legendary and have lvld trough dungeons as a tank, just because i dont agree with your changes doesnt mean i dont know what i am talking about.

Any paladin who actually thinks greater blessings as a paladin is a chore has never played a priest. The buff is cheap enough to where you can easily rebuff mid combat. Usually you have to rebuff someone who died of that class ahead of the duration expiring a bunch of times anyway and at worst you have to buff 9 times.

I take a dirtcheap 15 min buff i can cast on the go any day over a 60min priest buff that forces the priest into drinking every 2 groups he buffed.
And classic as a game is about inconviniemces.

Wotlk cleaned all of those little edges out of the game. And there is a reason wows population peaked during wotlk as opposed to grow all the way trough it. People grew tired of it as it streamlined too much.

If you dont like it there and come here, thats fine but dont like to make here like there. Fits remarkably well on wotlk & classic

[Papum]

Ah old trusty ad hominem arguments.
I cleared naxxramas on my paladin, got bloodring exalted, am on the way to my second legendary and have lvld trough dungeons as a tank, just because i dont agree with your changes doesnt mean i dont know what i am talking about.

Any paladin who actually thinks greater blessings as a paladin is a chore has never played a priest. The buff is cheap enough to where you can easily rebuff mid combat. Usually you have to rebuff someone who died of that class ahead of the duration expiring a bunch of times anyway and at worst you have to buff 9 times.

I take a dirtcheap 15 min buff i can cast on the go any day over a 60min priest buff that forces the priest into drinking every 2 groups he buffed.
And classic as a game is about inconviniemces.

Wotlk cleaned all of those little edges out of the game. And there is a reason wows population peaked during wotlk as opposed to grow all the way trough it. People grew tired of it as it streamlined too much.

If you dont like it there and come here, thats fine but dont like to make here like there. Fits remarkably well on wotlk & classic

Acheiving things ingame sadly means nothing because you can be carried or endlessly grind your way to it.
Yet smart ideias (already PROVEN to be SUCESSFULL) can really undeniably prove the experience gained on certain topics.
like i wrote on the post don't you think if early on even the wow developers (in the first two expansions plus vanilla, the really glory day's of the game, and with your own words you accept that, so you should that the changes were widely accepted as an positive direction and loved afterwards when using them ingame) accepted that certain things were errors made and changed them, like the paladin blessings being to short and nobody should be re-buffing mid fight for parties or raids (action time lost, mana lost, if your logic is if someone else has it worse than me than i must be in an good spot or if y want to your life to be without improving upon things that can be improved, living in the unnecessary inconvience of it as if it is a martyr or punishment you have to accept due to original bad design ideias your logic of thinking eludes me.
I don't think this is was intent to be some kind of soul's game aswell).
Simple logical concept to understand and once again it was PROVEN to be an MAIORITY CONCESSUS.
Yet everyone is intitled to have their own opinions. i'm just stating with the above post the many obvious points already proven, not argumenting thats why i said re-read the post again.

I put a small new note that adresses this kind of behaviour also at the end of the post.

[Calli]

This is very complicated, changing basically almost everything. Also it is very strong, we don't want hpals going on the offensive with casting exorcism with unlimited mana.

It acctually is very simple when ingame implemented and the changes are not that different to the current playstyle and abilities used, just fine tuned to what you'r used to playing. Maybe all the text has you confused that it is really complicated. And read everything again the balance is adressed at the suggestions, i really don't see where in this thread it states unlimited mana or holy healing paladins getting offensive, you just now get and offensive none healing focused pala. Maybe you were imagining things?

- Fourth row changes:
'Illumination' 5/5 -- Now states 'After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light, Holy Light, Holy Shock or Exorcism spell, gives you a 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.'.

Tell me when this paladin would run out of mana?

[Papum]

This is very complicated, changing basically almost everything. Also it is very strong, we don't want hpals going on the offensive with casting exorcism with unlimited mana.

It acctually is very simple when ingame implemented and the changes are not that different to the current playstyle and abilities used, just fine tuned to what you'r used to playing. Maybe all the text has you confused that it is really complicated. And read everything again the balance is adressed at the suggestions, i really don't see where in this thread it states unlimited mana or holy healing paladins getting offensive, you just now get and offensive none healing focused pala. Maybe you were imagining things?

- Fourth row changes:
'Illumination' 5/5 -- Now states 'After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light, Holy Light, Holy Shock or Exorcism spell, gives you a 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.'.

Tell me when this paladin would run out of mana?

Whit that talent they run out of mana like everyone else do did you know? That talent simply is an way they arranged to give some mana back to the pala trough talents while doing activities be it pvp or pve. Like the priests and druids have increased spirit talents that allows them to continue it's spirit mana regen even while casting, it is an mechanic to regain some mana back to delay the inevitably of going oom, obviously better gear delays it even more, there is no unlimited mana ingame though.

[Noephix]

01 - 'Exorcism' -- Changed to now be on an 2 sec. cast time spell without CD and works on all targets, yet if the target is an demon or undead it will still give bonus damage as before.

You know what pala ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY 100% DOES NOT NEED? Another ranged burst ability.

02 - Seals -- Now have a buff timer of 5 min instead of 20 sec. similiar to Shaman weapon buffs.

What for? They are judged all the time anyways.

06- Change 'Blessing of Protection', '... Freedom', '... Sacrifice' and '... Salvation' into 'Hands of ...', so not to overwrite longterm Blessings everytime they are used. (Saves a lot of mana)

Remove Salvation from the list. Maybe sacrifice too (it's used in PvE to remove salvation from noob tanks).

07- 'Righteous Fury' -- Now states 'Increases the threat generated by your Holy attacks by 60%. It also causes Holy damage to any creature that strikes you.'. (Incorporated the Retribution Aura ability into this, the holy damage scales with newly created ranks)

No real need to incorporate retri aura into it.

08- 'Sanctity Aura' -- Removed from the Holy tree and game, and it's ability is made baseline into the 'Retribution Aura' instead of the 'Retribution Aura''s previous ability. Also change the current icon from the 'Retribution Aura' to the 'Sanctity Aura' one .

Dps-increasing aura is bad and shouldn't be a thing cause it massively overshadows other auras and hampers utility aspect for ret paladins. Just turn it into a passive that increases your holy dmg by 10% and doesn't affect others.

09- Merge all resistance's auras into one only 'Resistance Aura' scaling by level accordingly.

10- Add 'Crusader Aura' -- States 'increases Mounted speed for the party' at level 40 to fill in the vacant Aura spaces.

Please no.