STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

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Roflstoffl
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STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:16 pm

Hello everyone!

I started playing WoW since the beta in 2004, with the expansion Mists of Pandaria I switched to play on Vanilla Private Servers, Blizzards Classic Wow and now Turtle Wow.

After spending hundreds of hours in forums and discord, discussing with the active community, here are my thoughts on the current state of Enhancement Shamans and some suggestions. I want to mention, that I love vanilla wow and my aim is to conserve the Vanilla experience as much as possible:


What is the current situation?
Shamans provide huge raid/party support in terms of Windfury Totem (WF) , regardless of the talent specialization.
WF and other totems are reasons, why every raid wants to get as much shamans as possible (1 in every group).

Because Restoration Shamans have an awful talent tree, they often put 31 talent points in the enhancement tree to get Bloodlust, so they can buff other players even more.

Therefore, Enhancement Shamans don‘t provide anything else than Restoration Shamans to the raid.

As a spiritual (magic) warrior-like melee class, Enhancement Shamans mainly auto attack their opponents.
Attack power(strength), hit chance, critical hit chance (agility) and haste are the stats Shamans need to get to improve their dps.

Enhancers also can cast a shock every 6 seconds, which needs spell power, spell hit and spell critical chance, to become useful.
The problem here is, that even when a Shaman has all those stats, he will run out of mana quickly.

The only one melee ability for Enhancement Shamans is Stormstrike, which is just an additional attack with a buff for the next 2 nature damaging abilities, which is Earth Shock (if no one else „steals“ the buff).

So our DPS mainly results from auto attacking, 1 physical and 1 magical ability. (and fire totem)

The most iconic class thing (besides totems), in my opinion, are the weapon imbues.
The problem is, we only can use Windfury Weapon competitively.

Our DPS?
As a hybrid class, we must stay behind „pure“ dps classes (rogues, mages, locks, hunters …) but somewhere at 75%. (different opinions on how much % here).
Reality?
Look logs from classic and Turtle WoW. Look at the Top parses… compare them to the casuals….
Enhancement Shamans underperform tremendously.


To summarize the current situation of Enhancement Shamans:

* Auto attacking class
* 1 offensive melee ability
* 1 offensive spell cast (Shock)
* Nearly all stats needed: hit, crit, attack power, spell hit, spell crit, spell power, intellect/mp5 for mana
* Dps: you can check logs, but its about 20-30% of the top dps class.


What do Enhancement Shamans need:
First of all, we should try to conserve as much as possible and change as little as necessary!
Therefore, the biggest part of the Shaman community wants to stay as a two-hand-wielding class, with more synergies between attack power and spell power and better mana sustain.

Suggestions for solutions:
There are many great ideas on discord:

One idea is a talent, that allows Shamans two weapon imbues on a 2h weapon simultaneously (one physical, and one magical for instance).

Another suggestion is a new melee ability (in addition to Stormstrike or as a rework), which causes different effects, depending on the current main weapon imbue.

For example:
* Rockbiter: taunt the target
* Windfury: Stormstrike
* Flametongue: some kind of a mages „Living Bomb“ or „Dragon Breath“ from later expansions.
* Frostbrand: instant freeze

So with this, other playstyles (like Spellhancer) become competitive and also the current (very bad) state in PvP gets buffed! (Different issue, but which also should be taken in consideration)

Other than those, a very important and missing thing are synergies, which got implemented back in tbc.

A talent, which provides Spellpower of some % of your AP.
* Mental Quickness: Reduces the mana cost of your instant cast spells by 2/4/6% and increase your spell damage and healing by an amount equal to 10/20/30% of your Attack Power.

A talent, which returns you some mana.
* Shamanistic Rage: Reduces all damage taken by 30% and gives your successful melee attacks a chance to regenerate mana equal to 30% of your attack power. Lasts 15 sec.


Image
(Thanks to Iracundo)

And please, put the talent „Nature’s Guidance in the Elemental Tree, so that every kind of Shaman spec can have access to it (Classic Enhancement, Spellhancement, Classic Elemental, Restoration)



Other life-friendly improvements:
* Please, remove the 5 min cooldown of weapon imbues completely. It is just a pain in the ass. (Paladins have their auras, and they’re short ally buffs. Shamans should have their weapon imbues (like auras) and totems.
* Make 2/2 Ghostwolf an nstant cast.


There is a lot of work for all of us, (PvP Balance, Resto Talents rework, ...) and I hope, that the player community and the developers pull together.

Thank you very much, if you have read through all this text!

STORM, EARTH AND FIRE, HEED MY CALL!
Last edited by Roflstoffl on Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Roflstoffl
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:16 pm

save for comments

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Glipo
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Glipo » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:10 pm

and here we go again "Shamanistic Rage: Reduces all damage taken by 30% and gives your successful melee attacks a chance to regenerate mana equal to 30% of your attack power. Lasts 15 sec."

not gonna be good with 2h weapon as managain tool need rework

Roflstoffl
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:23 pm

Ofc you can adjust those ideas.
These are only suggestions.

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Glipo
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Glipo » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:25 pm

some x amount of mana evey sec for 15 sec

Burunduk
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Burunduk » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:41 pm

Instant freeze, Dragon Breath...
What else? Every proc of Windfury stuns target?

Just... stop... it...

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Glipo
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Glipo » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:44 pm

Burunduk wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:41 pm
Instant freeze, Dragon Breath...
What else? Every proc of Windfury stuns target?

Just... stop... it...
naah stun suck just every proc wf kills all aound with shaman include only if hc mode on

Klouther
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Klouther » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:01 pm

+1, good overall suggestions.

Though, you may want to rethink the [Ancestral Knowledge] and [Shamanistic Focus] talents. The first one could also include fire totems and the second one could apply also increase the dmg of the shock, give spell pen/ARP. I say this mostly because of the talents they have to compete against in the first three rows for pvp or pve and also the other talent suggestions.
Glipo wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:10 pm
and here we go again "Shamanistic Rage: Reduces all damage taken by 30% and gives your successful melee attacks a chance to regenerate mana equal to 30% of your attack power. Lasts 15 sec."

not gonna be good with 2h weapon as managain tool need rework
The procrate can always be heavily weighted in favour of slower weapons.

Roflstoffl
Posts: 21

Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:27 pm

Burunduk wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:41 pm
Instant freeze, Dragon Breath...
What else? Every proc of Windfury stuns target?

Just... stop... it...
Have you ever played enhancement pvp?

What tools do we badly need?
Imo its a gap closer.
A stun, a snare, a freeze, …
Is it OP?
Not really, judt depends on cd and time.


Dragon breathe?
It is a suggestion of a fire spell with dazeing type.

These are just ideas man.

Why is there so much negativity?

Burunduk
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Burunduk » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:05 pm

It's Classic balance.
Shamans can interrupt casts, purge and slow target, these are your strengths.

If you want to have stun, roots, hex, instant wolf, defensive and burst abilities try to play on Pandaria server.

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Manletow
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Manletow » Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:13 am

Burunduk wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:05 pm
It's Classic balance.
Shamans can interrupt casts, purge and slow target, these are your strengths.

If you want to have stun, roots, hex, instant wolf, defensive and burst abilities try to play on Pandaria server.
Not to mention Enhancement can spec into various tanking talents and use Sword & Board to offer off-tanking services in raids (can tank 1 or 2 tough mobs to take some pressure/risk off the main tank).

People are way too obsessed with "muh big dick 2hander DPS bro".

Shaman is overall generally fine just could use some minor improvements/QoL adjustments.

Sure I guess increase their melee DPS slightly... whatever. I just don't view it as a hugely pressing concern.
Paladin is broken in PVP.
Frost Mage is broken in PVP/PVE.
Warrior is awful in PVP.
Feral Druid is mediocre in PVP.
Enhancement Shaman is fine. Stop begging for goofy custom abilities.

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Imonobor
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Imonobor » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:21 am

I think what would help a ton in the itemization is if crit and especially hit on gear was universal (affecting both melee and spells). Haste is universal, so why not those?
This change would be very hard to balance however, since it would affect mostly the hybrid classes (shaman and paladin), and paladin is already busted, especially in PvP.

Also +1, I love the "Stormstrike having different effects depending on the weapon enhancement" idea! It sounds very vanilla-friendly and fun to use, and would give us some use for the other enchantments besides Windfury. In one idea it gives us Taunt, Fire Aoe (besides totems) and CC, all of which shamans sorely lack for.
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Glipo
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Glipo » Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:09 am

Imonobor wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:21 am

Also +1, I love the "Stormstrike having different effects depending on the weapon enhancement" idea!
why storm strike meaby better add somthing as "unleash imblue" what gonna give that thing coz enha anyway have 1 melee skill so its gonna be 2 buttons

Volkyte
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Volkyte » Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:00 pm

They could make flametongue proc make an aoe splash damage on alla enemies near the target for 45%weapon damage + 50%str bonus. This would give shammy a decent aoe for trash in raids

Roflstoffl
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:26 pm

Manletow wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:13 am
Burunduk wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:05 pm
It's Classic balance.
Shamans can interrupt casts, purge and slow target, these are your strengths.

If you want to have stun, roots, hex, instant wolf, defensive and burst abilities try to play on Pandaria server.
Not to mention Enhancement can spec into various tanking talents and use Sword & Board to offer off-tanking services in raids (can tank 1 or 2 tough mobs to take some pressure/risk off the main tank).

People are way too obsessed with "muh big dick 2hander DPS bro".

Shaman is overall generally fine just could use some minor improvements/QoL adjustments.

Sure I guess increase their melee DPS slightly... whatever. I just don't view it as a hugely pressing concern.
do you even play enhancement shaman pve and pvp?

in pvp its one of the worst specs ingame.

you are easily to kite and you have no gap closer. (3s ghostwolf (1s if talented)) lol.
if you reach your target and can hit with AA and SS, its most of the time a non crit hit.
and if you are lucky and a WF procs, you are probably dead afterwards.

Volkyte wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:00 pm
They could make flametongue proc make an aoe splash damage on alla enemies near the target for 45%weapon damage + 50%str bonus. This would give shammy a decent aoe for trash in raids
this was my intention.

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Manletow
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Manletow » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:03 pm

Roflstoffl wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:26 pm
do you even play enhancement shaman pve and pvp?

in pvp its one of the worst specs ingame.

you are easily to kite and you have no gap closer. (3s ghostwolf (1s if talented)) lol.
if you reach your target and can hit with AA and SS, its most of the time a non crit hit.
and if you are lucky and a WF procs, you are probably dead afterwards.
Precisely as I said: you are yet another clown obsessed with 2hander Windfury DPS/Burst DMG

An Enhancement shaman is designed to be a tanky, hybrid support class -- not a melee badass.

Ideally they should be:
- Spamming Purge on virtually all enemies (even sometimes on melee due to Crusader +100str enchant proc counting as a Magic effect)
- saving teammates via emergency heals/poison removal
- casting the occasional Chain Lightning strategically (usually to finish off a enemy or two from a safe distance).
- they should be wearing a Shield for survivability NOT using a 2hander (even if u are behind your teammates -- Rogues/Warriors will often target support/healer classes -- that means you)

Of course they are "bottom" AKA C-tier in PVP (along with others such as Feral Druid). This doesn't mean they are weak per-se. Merely somewhat mediocre. Not all classes/specs need to be Top Tier.
Paladin is broken in PVP.
Frost Mage is broken in PVP/PVE.
Warrior is awful in PVP.
Feral Druid is mediocre in PVP.
Enhancement Shaman is fine. Stop begging for goofy custom abilities.

Roflstoffl
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Tue Dec 12, 2023 10:01 pm

Manletow wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:03 pm
Roflstoffl wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:26 pm
do you even play enhancement shaman pve and pvp?

in pvp its one of the worst specs ingame.

you are easily to kite and you have no gap closer. (3s ghostwolf (1s if talented)) lol.
if you reach your target and can hit with AA and SS, its most of the time a non crit hit.
and if you are lucky and a WF procs, you are probably dead afterwards.
Precisely as I said: you are yet another clown obsessed with 2hander Windfury DPS/Burst DMG

An Enhancement shaman is designed to be a tanky, hybrid support class -- not a melee badass.

Ideally they should be:
- Spamming Purge on virtually all enemies (even sometimes on melee due to Crusader +100str enchant proc counting as a Magic effect)
- saving teammates via emergency heals/poison removal
- casting the occasional Chain Lightning strategically (usually to finish off a enemy or two from a safe distance).
- they should be wearing a Shield for survivability NOT using a 2hander (even if u are behind your teammates -- Rogues/Warriors will often target support/healer classes -- that means you)

Of course they are "bottom" AKA C-tier in PVP (along with others such as Feral Druid). This doesn't mean they are weak per-se. Merely somewhat mediocre. Not all classes/specs need to be Top Tier.
I feel that you never played one competively.

Feral druid is one, if not, the strongest wpvp class.
ofc I play 1h+shield when facing melees/hunters.

ofc I am purging and healing my mates.

I dont want another RNG one global WF kill.

I am talking about serious PVP improvements (but not in this thread pls)

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Manletow
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Manletow » Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:11 pm

Roflstoffl wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:26 pm
Feral druid is one, if not, the strongest wpvp class.
ofc I play 1h+shield when facing melees/hunters.

ofc I am purging and healing my mates.

I dont want another RNG one global WF kill.
Druids are good at running away. Therefore they are good at World PvP...?
That just makes them the hardest to kill -- being slippery doesn't make them effective killers. Their damage is weaksauce.

More importantly: World PvP is almost totally irrelevant as it offers little-to-no rewards (and on the PVE server can be avoided completely).

Anyway, I usually have a Shield equipped even when fighting casters as its very common for Rogues to open on you at any moment and I like to be prepared with high armor/block/etc. Getting stun-locked without Shield = death.

Also 'Jagged Obsidian Shield' is pretty good against casters and is fairly cheap in the AH.
Also a faster (1h) weapon slows their hard casts more than a slow 2hander.

Ok so you admit Enhancement Shaman is adept at healing and purging enemies...
So by your own admission you are saying they are very useful in PVP.

It's perfectly fair that they have generally low melee damage as that is not their primary function within the game.

Their counterpart Paladin also had low melee damage until T-WoW made them broken with custom abilities/buffs.
Paladin needs to be nerfed... Shaman doesn't need to be buffed to become broken as well.
Paladin is broken in PVP.
Frost Mage is broken in PVP/PVE.
Warrior is awful in PVP.
Feral Druid is mediocre in PVP.
Enhancement Shaman is fine. Stop begging for goofy custom abilities.

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Augustfenix85
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Augustfenix85 » Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:49 am

Now hear me out for second, but as a shaman I’d give up a whole bag, for a special quest given Totem Bag that has you carry the totems on your back, acting like an aura.

Now how would they get it to work???? No idea, but constantly drop totems every 20 steps is so draining, not only on mana but my patience.
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Roflstoffl
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:25 am

Manletow wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:11 pm
Roflstoffl wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:26 pm
Feral druid is one, if not, the strongest wpvp class.
ofc I play 1h+shield when facing melees/hunters.

ofc I am purging and healing my mates.

I dont want another RNG one global WF kill.
Druids are good at running away. Therefore they are good at World PvP...?
That just makes them the hardest to kill -- being slippery doesn't make them effective killers. Their damage is weaksauce.

More importantly: World PvP is almost totally irrelevant as it offers little-to-no rewards (and on the PVE server can be avoided completely).

Anyway, I usually have a Shield equipped even when fighting casters as its very common for Rogues to open on you at any moment and I like to be prepared with high armor/block/etc. Getting stun-locked without Shield = death.

Also 'Jagged Obsidian Shield' is pretty good against casters and is fairly cheap in the AH.
Also a faster (1h) weapon slows their hard casts more than a slow 2hander.

Ok so you admit Enhancement Shaman is adept at healing and purging enemies...
So by your own admission you are saying they are very useful in PVP.

It's perfectly fair that they have generally low melee damage as that is not their primary function within the game.

Their counterpart Paladin also had low melee damage until T-WoW made them broken with custom abilities/buffs.
Paladin needs to be nerfed... Shaman doesn't need to be buffed to become broken as well.
I also think enhancers just lack a tool for gap closing.
Never said they need more damage in pvp.

The style you are explaining is elemental/resto. Pueging, Healing, finishing off with LB, 100% shield and 1h.
Where is the difference to enhancement?

But we need another topic for pvp. I just be curious, becsuse I dont wanna have a broken class as you mentioned!



Lets keep focus on pve changes.

QoL improvements: male Weapon Imbues aura-like. I hate the 5 min buff

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Jstansberry
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Jstansberry » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:01 am

Manletow wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:03 pm

Precisely as I said: you are yet another clown obsessed with 2hander Windfury DPS/Burst DMG

An Enhancement shaman is designed to be a tanky, hybrid support class -- not a melee badass.

Ideally they should be:
- Spamming Purge on virtually all enemies (even sometimes on melee due to Crusader +100str enchant proc counting as a Magic effect)
- saving teammates via emergency heals/poison removal
- casting the occasional Chain Lightning strategically (usually to finish off a enemy or two from a safe distance).
- they should be wearing a Shield for survivability NOT using a 2hander (even if u are behind your teammates -- Rogues/Warriors will often target support/healer classes -- that means you)

Of course they are "bottom" AKA C-tier in PVP (along with others such as Feral Druid). This doesn't mean they are weak per-se. Merely somewhat mediocre. Not all classes/specs need to be Top Tier.

None of these things you listed are exclusive to enhancement - they are basic parts of the shaman kit. You literally just described what an elemental or resto shaman does as well, and they do all of those things better than enhancement via their talents and itemization. Do you just want enhancement to be a nothing spec that you only take if you want to be a worse version of the other two specs? Blizzard placed two-handed axe/mace weapon skill unlock, 5% melee crit, Flurry, +10% weapon damage, Elemental Weapons (imbue damage bonus), and Stormstrike in the enhancement tree - do you not see a pattern there?

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Imonobor
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Imonobor » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:28 am

Augustfenix85 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:49 am
Now hear me out for second, but as a shaman I’d give up a whole bag, for a special quest given Totem Bag that has you carry the totems on your back, acting like an aura.

Now how would they get it to work???? No idea, but constantly drop totems every 20 steps is so draining, not only on mana but my patience.
Inbefore we start shooting our Searing totems from our asses happy_turtle_head
But seriously, this would defeat the whole purpose, idea, flavor and everything of totems. They're totems for a reason, not auras.
There are things that can be done (and have been done) to make this less annoying and mana-draining, and those are the removal of GCD on totems and the addition of Call of the Elements and Totemic Recall (although I'd argue 25% mana return is not enough to help in any significant way, 50% would be better).
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Roflstoffl
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:36 am

Jstansberry wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:01 am
Manletow wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:03 pm

Precisely as I said: you are yet another clown obsessed with 2hander Windfury DPS/Burst DMG

An Enhancement shaman is designed to be a tanky, hybrid support class -- not a melee badass.

Ideally they should be:
- Spamming Purge on virtually all enemies (even sometimes on melee due to Crusader +100str enchant proc counting as a Magic effect)
- saving teammates via emergency heals/poison removal
- casting the occasional Chain Lightning strategically (usually to finish off a enemy or two from a safe distance).
- they should be wearing a Shield for survivability NOT using a 2hander (even if u are behind your teammates -- Rogues/Warriors will often target support/healer classes -- that means you)

Of course they are "bottom" AKA C-tier in PVP (along with others such as Feral Druid). This doesn't mean they are weak per-se. Merely somewhat mediocre. Not all classes/specs need to be Top Tier.

None of these things you listed are exclusive to enhancement - they are basic parts of the shaman kit. You literally just described what an elemental or resto shaman does as well, and they do all of those things better than enhancement via their talents and itemization. Do you just want enhancement to be a nothing spec that you only take if you want to be a worse version of the other two specs? Blizzard placed two-handed axe/mace weapon skill unlock, 5% melee crit, Flurry, +10% weapon damage, Elemental Weapons (imbue damage bonus), and Stormstrike in the enhancement tree - do you not see a pattern there?
Thank you!

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Augustfenix85
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Augustfenix85 » Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:15 pm

Imonobor wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:28 am
Augustfenix85 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:49 am
Now hear me out for second, but as a shaman I’d give up a whole bag, for a special quest given Totem Bag that has you carry the totems on your back, acting like an aura.

Now how would they get it to work???? No idea, but constantly drop totems every 20 steps is so draining, not only on mana but my patience.
Inbefore we start shooting our Searing totems from our asses happy_turtle_head
But seriously, this would defeat the whole purpose, idea, flavor and everything of totems. They're totems for a reason, not auras.
There are things that can be done (and have been done) to make this less annoying and mana-draining, and those are the removal of GCD on totems and the addition of Call of the Elements and Totemic Recall (although I'd argue 25% mana return is not enough to help in any significant way, 50% would be better).

Yeah you’re right, just dreaming big. It would definitely ruin the lore. Plus it would probably look really awful.
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Manletow
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Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Manletow » Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:43 pm

Roflstoffl wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:25 am
I also think enhancers just lack a tool for gap closing.
Never said they need more damage in pvp.

The style you are explaining is elemental/resto. Pueging, Healing, finishing off with LB, 100% shield and 1h.
Where is the difference to enhancement?

Lets keep focus on pve changes.
1 second Ghost Wolf is a fine gap closer. (55% Speed with Rank 7 PVP boots)
Or even better... just use your 100%+ speed mount instead.
Or even better still... hide behind your teammates (supporting them as I mentioned with heals/purges/etc) so no need for a "gap closer".

You are suggesting that new Melee abilitie(s) be added... which would increase their melee DPS in PVP.
You were the first person to mention (complain about) PVP in this thread bud.
Jstansberry wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:01 am
None of these things you listed are exclusive to enhancement - they are basic parts of the shaman kit.
You literally just described what an elemental or resto shaman does as well, and they do all of those things better than enhancement
Do you just want enhancement to be a nothing spec that you only take if you want to be a worse version of the other two specs?
Blizzard placed two-handed axe/mace weapon skill unlock, 5% melee crit, Flurry, +10% weapon damage, Elemental Weapons (imbue damage bonus), and Stormstrike in the enhancement tree - do you not see a pattern there?
Yes, Shaman is quite useful/viable in PVP... even without ANY Talent Points in ANY tree.
They are naturally quite tanky with a shield/mail armor.
Plus 'Purge' is borderline overpowered (30yd range + super cheap to cast)
They can still offer Totems.
And a 'generic' Shaman's heals are still half-decent... they just would not be critting as often.

Point is: Enhancement Shaman is viable in PVP (admittedly not ideal) because talents are kind of just a 'bonus'.
Because it is viable it does not need (significant/radical) buffs/changes.

ANYWAY it certainly does have at LEAST 4 (significant/noteworthy) superior aspects to its competition:
1.) Higher armor/dodge/block allows them more success against Melee classes. Example: A Rogues Stunlock opener (very common to get focused if you are spamming heals) will usually result in the Rogues failure/death.
2.) They are more 'sustainable' as when they run low on Mana they can still be semi-effective with stronger/faster auto attacks and such. Resto/Ele just become impotent/useless without Mana.
3.) They can tank elites/bosses in AV.
4.) SUBJECTIVE... but its my list: satisfied_turtle They are more fun to play. Ele/Resto Spamming Lightning Bolt is 'ideal' but kinda boring! I prefer to dance around Stormstriking/Tanking the various Rogues/Warriors/etc that attack me cuz they think i'm a "weak/vulnerable Healer".

Indeed, Melee attacks/abilities are merely for SELF-DEFENSE/last resort.
As I mentioned; many Enhancement Shamans in PVP (and PVE) are obsessed with being 'badass, front line Warriors' and wind up sucking horribly and dying constantly.

P.S. There are no "Pure" Enhancement Shamans. Virtually all of them have/choose to put at least 1 (usually far more) point(s) into other trees.
Paladin is broken in PVP.
Frost Mage is broken in PVP/PVE.
Warrior is awful in PVP.
Feral Druid is mediocre in PVP.
Enhancement Shaman is fine. Stop begging for goofy custom abilities.

Roflstoffl
Posts: 21

Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Roflstoffl » Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:47 pm

Manletow wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 2:43 pm
Roflstoffl wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:25 am
I also think enhancers just lack a tool for gap closing.
Never said they need more damage in pvp.

The style you are explaining is elemental/resto. Pueging, Healing, finishing off with LB, 100% shield and 1h.
Where is the difference to enhancement?

Lets keep focus on pve changes.
1 second Ghost Wolf is a fine gap closer. (55% Speed with Rank 7 PVP boots)
Or even better... just use your 100%+ speed mount instead.
Or even better still... hide behind your teammates (supporting them as I mentioned with heals/purges/etc) so no need for a "gap closer".

You are suggesting that new Melee abilitie(s) be added... which would increase their melee DPS in PVP.
You were the first person to mention (complain about) PVP in this thread bud.
Jstansberry wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:01 am
None of these things you listed are exclusive to enhancement - they are basic parts of the shaman kit.
You literally just described what an elemental or resto shaman does as well, and they do all of those things better than enhancement
Do you just want enhancement to be a nothing spec that you only take if you want to be a worse version of the other two specs?
Blizzard placed two-handed axe/mace weapon skill unlock, 5% melee crit, Flurry, +10% weapon damage, Elemental Weapons (imbue damage bonus), and Stormstrike in the enhancement tree - do you not see a pattern there?
Yes, Shaman is quite useful/viable in PVP... even without ANY Talent Points in ANY tree.
They are naturally quite tanky with a shield/mail armor.
Plus 'Purge' is borderline overpowered (30yd range + super cheap to cast)
They can still offer Totems.
And a 'generic' Shaman's heals are still half-decent... they just would not be critting as often.

Point is: Enhancement Shaman is viable in PVP (admittedly not ideal) because talents are kind of just a 'bonus'.
Because it is viable it does not need (significant/radical) buffs/changes.

ANYWAY it certainly does have at LEAST 4 (significant/noteworthy) superior aspects to its competition:
1.) Higher armor/dodge/block allows them more success against Melee classes. Example: A Rogues Stunlock opener (very common to get focused if you are spamming heals) will usually result in the Rogues failure/death.
2.) They are more 'sustainable' as when they run low on Mana they can still be semi-effective with stronger/faster auto attacks and such. Resto/Ele just become impotent/useless without Mana.
3.) They can tank elites/bosses in AV.
4.) SUBJECTIVE... but its my list: satisfied_turtle They are more fun to play. Ele/Resto Spamming Lightning Bolt is 'ideal' but kinda boring! I prefer to dance around Stormstriking/Tanking the various Rogues/Warriors/etc that attack me cuz they think i'm a "weak/vulnerable Healer".

Indeed, Melee attacks/abilities are merely for SELF-DEFENSE/last resort.
As I mentioned; many Enhancement Shamans in PVP (and PVE) are obsessed with being 'badass, front line Warriors' and wind up sucking horribly and dying constantly.

P.S. There are no "Pure" Enhancement Shamans. Virtually all of them have/choose to put at least 1 (usually far more) point(s) into other trees.
„Or even better... just use your 100%+ speed mount instead.“

Not sure if u a troll.
Never heard so much wrong things….
You have definitively never played shaman pvp at 60.

But please, lets concentrate on serious PvE balanceing in this thread.

Williamson75
Posts: 112

Re: STORM, EARTH AND FIRE - HEED MY CALL!

Post by Williamson75 » Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:12 am

I have always felt we scale poorly with ap and melee stats with just autos and storm strike. I want to see a slam like ability with a cd and a cast time. Wouldn't be as busted in pvp as another instant strike. Wf is suck a massive suck on out dps they dont want to buff us at all because out burst is enough to 1 tap cloth wearers. best solution is 40% proc with 1 extra attack instead. Would round out our lows in pve and nerf the pvp burst potential. Just swapping windfury would allow us to have more consistent dps in pvp. I have seen ideas to add static shock but with any shield which would help us greatly with mana. The ideas of making our shocks less resisted would help our dps but not our scaling using melee stats.

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