Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

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Klouther
Posts: 11

Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Klouther » Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:10 pm

Well, the tittle of the post is quite self explanatory so I will get straight to the point; Shaman is not in a good spot and it shows in the class population and relegation as a totem dispenser in raids. So here are a list of changes I have seen mentioned in the discord, this forum and some I have thought myself:

1º- Turn [Rockbitter Weapon] into a sort of stance just like the paladin equivalent seal was turned into [Righteous Fury] by the end of WoW's Beta. It's a long overdue change that's within TWoW philosophy of finishing what the original game couldn't at the time. Here's a suggestion for it;
[Rockbitter Warden
Fills your body with the strength of the Earth, increasing your attack power by (charlevel*10), the threat generated by your physical attacks and weapon imbues by 100% and the threat of your frost, fire and nature spells by 35%.]

This idea is to reinforce the current enhance tank playstyle without destroying [Rockbitter Weapon] identity and making it a knock-off [RIghteous Fury]. I'm not including redirecting threat from totems because that's more than likely going to be a talent in Class Changes 2.


2º- Make weapon imbues self buffs with a 15min duration at the very least. The current iteration is simply cumbersome to use and it deprives enhancement of the option of using sharpening stones or benefiting from your own WFT or FTT(never seen that one used before). On that note, why there isn't a Frostbrand totem even if just for flavor/consistency?


3º- Make the class quest for totems actually rewarding instead of a lenghty chore to be able to use half of your skill kit(looking at you, water totem questchain). The "mirror class" to shamans, paladins, only need to complete two class quest for base skills with the low level ones giving a nice tanking shield and a 2h weapon that last until the mid 30's levels. So my proposal is to make the actual totems hogging 4 bag spaces have an on use effect with a shared short CD(1min maybe?):

[Earth Totem: increases your armour value by X% and resistances by Y% for Z seconds.]
[Fire Totem: your attacks and spells deal an additional (charlevel/4 + X% SP * base attack/casting speed) fire damage to your target and all enemies within 5yard for the next Yseconds.]
[Water Totem: increases your HP5 and MP5 by (charlevel + X% spirit) for the next Yseconds.]
[Wind Totem: reduces your threat generation by 20% for the next 20s.]

These are just personal suggestions for the effects, the core idea is to make the item totems useful.


4º- Buff [Stormstrike]. It's an incredible contender for the worst melee skill in the game: it's literally a glorified AA. Just give it a hefty AP and SP scaling so it actually hits like a lvl 30 talent with a long CD and mana cost should. Just to point out, the "mirror class" paladin [Holy Strike] is a baseline lvl 10 skill with +dmg and SP scaling as well as having the best dmg type in the game.


5º- Merge [Nature's Guidance] from the resto tree into [Elemental Warding] from the ele tree(mostly to avoid talent clutter). Where [Nature's Guidance] is right now doesn't make any sense, it should be in the first row's of the ele tree so both dps/tank specs can easily grab it.


6º- Either up Totems duration or reduce their mana cost across the board. They are the utility the class provides to a group yet it's objectively inferior to paladin blessings over a dungeon/raid clear: far higher mana cost for uptime, they are position dependant and their base range is shorter than paladin auras(which are permanent and free to boot).


7º- Prune some of the skills to let way for others that might be actually used. Shamans currently have 22 different totems some of which have the same effects as some skills(Poison Cleansing Totem&Cure Poison, Disease Cleansing Totem&Cure Disease) or are straight up useless(Windwall Totem, Stoneskin Totem to some degree due to armour diminishing returns, Tranquil Air Totem also since it depends if you are in dps melee group or not and you have the mana to twist into WFT).

Poison Cleansing Totem&Disease Cleansing Totem could be easily merged into one and Mana Spring Totem&Healing Stream Totem are also good candidates.


8º- This is just a personal nitpick since shamans are supposed to be fighters wielding the elements so... rework [Lightning Bolt] into [Elemental Bolt] and tie the type of damage it deals to your active weapon imbue;
-nothing or wf-> nature damage
-flametongue-> fire damage
-frostbrand-> frost damage

As I said, personal nitpick but if it could be done, it would help the class fantasy and make ele/enhancement more versatile and also improve the synergy with other classes(why does locks [Curse of Elements] only affect frost and fire damage? Why hasn't it changed already to include nature dmg?).


Well, if you stuck around till the end, please rip these suggestions as much as you like and tell me why they are stupid/unnecessary/over the top or whatever. Correct me as much as you like and give everyone and the devs more ideas to think about to help shamans not be a totem dispenser any more satisfied_turtle_head

Wafflecrusher
Posts: 143

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Wafflecrusher » Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:33 pm

I'll take anything at this point. Anything to increase the viability and playability of shamans. If I had my way I'd add 4 (for each elemental type) class quests that give you the ability to bind elementals, making them temporary pets for like 2 minutes. Then I'd change the final talent in the elemental tree to make it to where those pets are permanent. Then I'd make a talent in enhancement that makes it to where all the aggro generated by totems is generated by the shaman instead of the totem. Boom, shamans are now fun to level, and are viable tanks.

As I said though, I'll take anything to make them more played and more fun to play.

Burunduk
Posts: 151
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Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Burunduk » Sat Dec 02, 2023 4:47 am

Developers will never do crazy things players want.
Elemental bolt? Combined totems? No...
They can do only small changes.
Extra threat for some abilities? Weapon imbues for 15 min? Yes, these changes are turtle-like.

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Glipo » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:03 am

Klouther wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:10 pm

1º- Turn [Rockbitter Weapon] into a sort of stance just like the paladin equivalent seal was turned into [Righteous Fury] by the end of WoW's Beta. It's a long overdue change that's within TWoW philosophy of finishing what the original game couldn't at the time. Here's a suggestion for it;

This idea is to reinforce the current enhance tank playstyle without destroying [Rockbitter Weapon] identity and making it a knock-off [RIghteous Fury]. I'm not including redirecting threat from totems because that's more than likely going to be a talent in Class Changes 2.
hmmmmmm what about first 30 lvls of gameplay? we have wf only at lvl 30 and i dont want lvl up as tank and i dont like this flame tongue enchant.
if tankhance need [RIghteous Fury] analogs let them have it but why others must suffer coz of this let it be buff outside of weapon imbues

Klouther
Posts: 11

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Klouther » Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:08 pm

Glipo wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:03 am
Klouther wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:10 pm

1º- Turn [Rockbitter Weapon] into a sort of stance just like the paladin equivalent seal was turned into [Righteous Fury] by the end of WoW's Beta. It's a long overdue change that's within TWoW philosophy of finishing what the original game couldn't at the time. Here's a suggestion for it;

This idea is to reinforce the current enhance tank playstyle without destroying [Rockbitter Weapon] identity and making it a knock-off [RIghteous Fury]. I'm not including redirecting threat from totems because that's more than likely going to be a talent in Class Changes 2.
hmmmmmm what about first 30 lvls of gameplay? we have wf only at lvl 30 and i dont want lvl up as tank and i dont like this flame tongue enchant.
if tankhance need [RIghteous Fury] analogs let them have it but why others must suffer coz of this let it be buff outside of weapon imbues
I honestly don't get what you are trying to say. My proposal would make Rockbitter it's own thing stacking with normal weapon imbues. It's something additive instead of restrictive, you can't use Rockbitter as dps in dungeons because of the threat and in open world you switch to FT or frostbrand if it's a high armor mob.

Also, I highly doubt the imbues will have their lvl requirements dropped because they do mirror when you can do their totem respective quest. Very unlikely shamans will ever have WF before lvl 30.

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Glipo » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:50 am

Klouther wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:08 pm
Glipo wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:03 am
Klouther wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:10 pm

1º- Turn [Rockbitter Weapon] into a sort of stance just like the paladin equivalent seal was turned into [Righteous Fury] by the end of WoW's Beta. It's a long overdue change that's within TWoW philosophy of finishing what the original game couldn't at the time. Here's a suggestion for it;

This idea is to reinforce the current enhance tank playstyle without destroying [Rockbitter Weapon] identity and making it a knock-off [RIghteous Fury]. I'm not including redirecting threat from totems because that's more than likely going to be a talent in Class Changes 2.
hmmmmmm what about first 30 lvls of gameplay? we have wf only at lvl 30 and i dont want lvl up as tank and i dont like this flame tongue enchant.
if tankhance need [RIghteous Fury] analogs let them have it but why others must suffer coz of this let it be buff outside of weapon imbues
you can't use Rockbitter as dps in dungeons because of the threat
just wait a bit when tonk get enoff thret and swich to rockbiter insidious_turtle

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Glipo » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:39 pm

Klouther wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:10 pm

3º- Make the class quest for totems actually rewarding instead of a lenghty chore to be able to use half of your skill kit(looking at you, water totem questchain). The "mirror class" to shamans, paladins, only need to complete two class quest for base skills with the low level ones giving a nice tanking shield and a 2h weapon that last until the mid 30's levels. So my proposal is to make the actual totems hogging 4 bag spaces have an on use effect with a shared short CD(1min maybe?):

[Earth Totem: increases your armour value by X% and resistances by Y% for Z seconds.]
[Fire Totem: your attacks and spells deal an additional (charlevel/4 + X% SP * base attack/casting speed) fire damage to your target and all enemies within 5yard for the next Yseconds.]
[Water Totem: increases your HP5 and MP5 by (charlevel + X% spirit) for the next Yseconds.]
[Wind Totem: reduces your threat generation by 20% for the next 20s.]

These are just personal suggestions for the effects, the core idea is to make the item totems useful.
what if make a 4 slots for totem in relic slot and make them visible when they are equiped like shamans have in war3
Image
also make them visibel/invisble as with helm cloak

if doing a earch totem quest as orc/troll the shaman who gives u the totem will say "The totem I will craft for you is more than a symbol of your status among shamans it has abilities beyond that."
So if totems will be seen and have an improvment u talk about its will be great.
also cool if paladins and druids will have somthing with ther idols and librams
Last edited by Glipo on Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hyrag
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Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Hyrag » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:46 pm

dead_turtle_head
Shaman just needs enhance viabilization(only on pve)
Elemental leveling twenks
Healer job reforced

Elemental change:
Lightnning mastery and call of thunder swap places.

My suggestions for enhancent tank and dps:
Stormstrike debuff turns now on a buff effect on shaman that increases nature damage on X spells.
New talent:
Follow up to stormstrike
0/2 stormhammer: increase skill 3/5 in hammers your crits have a 50/100% chance to proc stormstrike buff

Weapon mastery goes to 0/3.

Thunderhead buff.
now gives your blocks a chance to cast 1 orb lightinnig shield with increased threat per damage

Restoration change
Mana tide totem
Mana tide totem talent turns into active spell called Mana tide like chain heal but for mana.
Last edited by Hyrag on Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Burunduk
Posts: 151
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Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Burunduk » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:49 pm

How will this new active mana tide totem work?
Totem with 2.5 sec cast witch gives mana to 3 raid members?

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Glipo » Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 pm

Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:46 pm
dead_turtle_head
Shaman just needs enhance viabilization(only on pve)
what kind of pve u talk about ?

Hyrag
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Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Hyrag » Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:00 pm

Glipo wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 pm
Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:46 pm
dead_turtle_head
Shaman just needs enhance viabilization(only on pve)
what kind of pve u talk about ?
Raids neutral_turtle_head
Not pve serve

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Glipo » Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:03 pm

Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:00 pm
Glipo wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 pm
Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:46 pm
dead_turtle_head
Shaman just needs enhance viabilization(only on pve)
what kind of pve u talk about ?
Raids neutral_turtle_head
Not pve serve
ok lets do some brain work here how coud 1 fix of stromstrike fix enha in raids?
i mean we need get logs and start to do simple math what we missing and if for example avg shaman gonna do 300 dps and other ones aroun 1k that means we have to bust our dps in all aspects to be a medium damage dealer

Hyrag
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Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Hyrag » Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:57 pm

Glipo wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:03 pm
Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:00 pm
Glipo wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 pm

what kind of pve u talk about ?
Raids neutral_turtle_head
Not pve serve
ok lets do some brain work here how coud 1 fix of stromstrike fix enha in raids?
i mean we need get logs and start to do simple math what we missing and if for example avg shaman gonna do 300 dps and other ones aroun 1k that means we have to bust our dps in all aspects to be a medium damage dealer
"fix" is just every talent having a beneficial impact(aka stormstrike being a debuff is just a lose lose situation)
+5 skill in hammers is a viabilization buff for every race + tank viabilizaiton(better itemization without +hit)

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Glipo
Posts: 83

Re: Shaman Tweaks while waiting for Class changes 2

Post by Glipo » Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:00 pm

Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:57 pm
Glipo wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:03 pm
Hyrag wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:00 pm

Raids neutral_turtle_head
Not pve serve
ok lets do some brain work here how coud 1 fix of stromstrike fix enha in raids?
i mean we need get logs and start to do simple math what we missing and if for example avg shaman gonna do 300 dps and other ones aroun 1k that means we have to bust our dps in all aspects to be a medium damage dealer
"fix" is just every talent having a beneficial impact(aka stormstrike being a debuff is just a lose lose situation)
+5 skill in hammers is a viabilization buff for every race + tank viabilizaiton(better itemization without +hit)
gimme math proofs

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