Deep Prot Ideas

[Wilsonsds]

1) Change One-Handed Weapon Specialization into Weapon And Shield Specialization. That still gives 10% for one-handed weapons, but gives a bonus THREAT based on your defense skill. IF YOU ARE USING A SHIELD

2) Change Shield Slam to a 3 secs Cooldown and cost of 10 rage. And instead of debuffing a magic on the target, make the target unable to move for 1 sec.

3) You be able to use revenge hit multiple targets with its specialization.

[Arthurusmenks]

I'd say change improved revenge to do more damage and cleave or you could modify improved sunder to do weapon damage on the target along with the sunder.

[Tacticalnelf]

I liked the suggestions, I even have some for the protection tree



1. Defiance: 6% threat per point (currently 3%)

2. One-Handed Specialization: As an additional effect each point should provide a 20% chance of receiving 1 extra rage when performing a successful attack with a one-handed weapon (100% with 5 points)

3. Swap Improved Revenge with Improved Shield Bash and change Improved Revenge's effect to hit extra targets (1 target per point)

[Styopa1]

Offer talent point options to give shield slam a shield-bash effect.
Personally, while slamming is fun, in low rage situations it's not worth the spend with more than a single mob.

[Wilsonsds]

I'd say change improved revenge to do more damage and cleave or you could modify improved sunder to do weapon damage on the target along with the sunder.

I kinda liked, but this is basically a Copy of devastate from classic, and this if added, should be added to the base spell to benefit all warriors not just prot. Besides that, revege could have a reduced CD instead of a +damage.

[Wilsonsds]

I liked the suggestions, I even have some for the protection tree



1. Defiance: 6% threat per point (currently 3%)

2. One-Handed Specialization: As an additional effect each point should provide a 20% chance of receiving 1 extra rage when performing a successful attack with a one-handed weapon (100% with 5 points)

3. Swap Improved Revenge with Improved Shield Bash and change Improved Revenge's effect to hit extra targets (1 target per point)

Your ideas make sense, and improve the deep prot, but i would suggest instead of making Defiance just stronger, these 3% + of your suggestion could be something only in the deep tree of this spec.

And, adding a 1 rage on a attack is almost copying [Unbridled Wrath] from furry tree... I think that a +1 rage on parry, dodge and block (stacking with [Shield Specialization]) would be better and would fit more with the proctective warrior mentality, and this would even solve a problem when a well geared warrior tries to do 5 man dungeons and lower level content.

[Wilsonsds]

Offer talent point options to give shield slam a shield-bash effect.
Personally, while slamming is fun, in low rage situations it's not worth the spend with more than a single mob.

Thats why i suggested to lower the shield slam to 10 rage.

[Mativh]

Reply:

1) Change One-Handed Weapon Specialization into Sword And Shield Specialization. That still gives 10% for one-handed weapons, but gives a bonus THREAT based on your defense skill. IF YOU ARE USING A SHIELD

There are many other talents addressing the shield-wielding capabilities of the prot war, this one is ment to address the weapon of choice, a one handed weapon, which a good prot war needs to master as well. Instead of a threat increase without apparent reason, add to the talent up to +5 one handed weapons skill which would contribute to threat generation in a more meaningful way.

2) Change Shield Slam to a 10 secs Cooldown and cost of 15 rage. And instead of debuffing a magic on the target, make the target unable to move for 5 secs.

The concept of slamming the shield so powerfully that a buff gets knocked off a target is interesting, but I think it should happen only upon a critical hit, and accompanied by a knockback on the target. I agree with the 10 sec & 15 rage change.

3) You be able to use revenge everytime with a fixed cooldown, but the proc make it instant to cast it again.

I disagree. The concept of Revenge is to respond to an enemies attempt to attack you, which you have stopped. It is an inverse Overpower, shouldn't be useable all the time. However, a Revenge should be indeed instant after a block/parry/dodge, not with a resetted cooldown, but simply useable right away instead of waiting for a cooldown while it is useable, that never made sense. (See below)

Prot tree revisioned:

Toughness compressed into 3 ranks; 3/6/10%, instead of 2/4/6/8/10%.

Iron Will compressed into 3 ranks; 5/10/15% resist chance, instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.

Sunder Armor Also increases the amount of sundered armor by 3/6/10%.

Revenge reworked;
5 Rage, no cooldown
Rank 1
Instantly counterattack an enemy for 50% weapon damage + 12 to 14 damage and a high amount of threat. Revenge must follow a block, dodge or parry and can be used only once every 6 seconds.

6 sec internal cooldown of it's proc chance, instead of 5 sec basic ability cooldown, as it is ment to be used right after a block dodge or parry, and it being useable while on CD makes no sense conceptually.

Improved Revenge switched position with Improved Sunder Armor (since Revenge is learned later), and reworked;
3 ranks;
Revenge has a 10/20/30% chance to stun the target for 2 seconds and can now be used once every 5/4/3 seconds.

Improved Shield Bash compressed into 1 rank; using Shield Bash silences the target for 3 sec, and next to it a new talent, with Improved Shield Bash as a prerequisite:

Spell Reflection
45 sec cooldown, Instant
Requires Shields
Raise your shield, reflecting the next spell cast on you. Lasts 5 sec. Can't be used with Shield Spikes.

A new addition to this ability is that it is only useable if your shield doesn't have Shield Spikes applied on it, and the coooldown has been increased. Alternatively, Spell Reflection could be ommited and Improved Shield Bash would remain to be 2 ranks.

Improved Taunt switches position with One Handed Specialization, and next to Improved Taunt a new talent, with it as a prerequisite:

Incite
1 rank
After Taunting, your next Heroic Strike, Thunder Clap or Cleave causes higher amount of threat and has increased critical hit chance by 10%.

One Handed Specialization additionally increases skill with all one handed weapons by 1/2/3/4/5.

Improved Shield Wall moved to one row below and renamed/reworked as;

Barbed Bulwark
3 ranks
Increases the threat generated from Shield Spikes attached to your shield by 33/66/100% and increases the duration of your Shield Wall by 3/6/10 seconds.

A new talent positioned in the last row, under Barbed Bulwark and next to Shield Slam;

Indomitable
1 Rank
Reduces the cooldown of your Intervene by 5 seconds and during Bloodrage you can use Charge while in combat.

Shield Slam costing 15 rage, 10 sec cooldown, the debuffing only occuring on a critical hit, accompanied by a knockback.

Next to it a new talent:

Improved Shield Slam
1 rank
A succesful Revenge hit increases the critical hit chance of your next Shield Slam by 5% for 9 seconds, stacks up to 3 times.

[Wilsonsds]

Reply:

1) Change One-Handed Weapon Specialization into Sword And Shield Specialization. That still gives 10% for one-handed weapons, but gives a bonus THREAT based on your defense skill. IF YOU ARE USING A SHIELD

There are many other talents addressing the shield-wielding capabilities of the prot war, this one is ment to address the weapon of choice, a one handed weapon, which a good prot war needs to master as well. Instead of a threat increase without apparent reason, add to the talent up to +5 one handed weapons skill which would contribute to threat generation in a more meaningful way.

2) Change Shield Slam to a 10 secs Cooldown and cost of 15 rage. And instead of debuffing a magic on the target, make the target unable to move for 5 secs.

The concept of slamming the shield so powerfully that a buff gets knocked off a target is interesting, but I think it should happen only upon a critical hit, and accompanied by a knockback on the target. I agree with the 10 sec & 15 rage change.

3) You be able to use revenge everytime with a fixed cooldown, but the proc make it instant to cast it again.

I disagree. The concept of Revenge is to respond to an enemies attempt to attack you, which you have stopped. It is an inverse Overpower, shouldn't be useable all the time. However, a Revenge should be indeed instant after a block/parry/dodge, not with a resetted cooldown, but simply useable right away instead of waiting for a cooldown while it is useable, that never made sense. (See below)

Prot tree revisioned:

Improved Shield Bash compressed into 1 rank; using Shield Bash silences the target for 3 sec, and next to it a new talent, with Improved Shield Bash as a prerequisite:

Spell Reflection
25 sec cooldown, Instant
Requires Shields
Raise your shield, reflecting the next spell cast on you. Lasts 5 sec.

Next to Improved Taunt a new talent, with Improved Taunt as a prerequisite:

Incite
1 rank
After a Taunt, the critical strike chance of your next Heroic Strike, Thunder Clap or Cleave is increased by 10%.

Iron Will compressed into 3 ranks; 5/10/15% resist chance, instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.

Revenge reworked;
5 Rage, no cooldown
Rank 1
Instantly counterattack an enemy for 50% weapon damage + 12 to 14 damage and a high amount of threat. Revenge must follow a block, dodge or parry and can be used only once every 5 seconds.

(5 sec internal cooldown of it's proc chance, instead of 5 sec basic ability cooldown, as it is ment to be used right after a block dodge or parry, and it being useable while on CD makes no sense conceptually)

Improved Revenge reworked;
Revenge has a 15/30/45% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.
Additionally, a succesful Revenge strike increases the critical hit chance of your next Shield Slam by 3%, stacks up to 5 times.

One Handed Specialization additionally increasing skill with all one handed weapons by 1/2/3/4/5.
And next to it a new talent;

Juggernaut
1 rank
Reduces the cooldown of your Intervene by 5 seconds and allows Charge to be used in combat.

Shield Slam costing 15 rage, 10 sec cooldown, the debuffing only occuring on a critical hit, accompanied by a knockback.

Hello!

Good to see you here

So, the one hand expecialization giving +5 in all one handed weapons is a better idea than more damage or a chance for more range. But this +threat isnt without a reason, because its notorious the fact that prot warriors do not build threat, so i still think its justifided, however, this bonus threat based in the defense skill could be added in the Juggernaut hability that you discribed instead of making you charge while in combat. This change in Juggernaut i think its needed, first because this reminds me too much of retail, and seccond is that deep prot needs, more than anything, is more threat in a constant way, not dependable in a shield slam crit.

Your improved revenge idea is cool, and this combo with shield slam also is a great idea. But i dont think that spell reflection should be added to the deep prot, instead could be added to deep protection pallies, so they can have their +.

And lastly, prot is almost all about using a shield, so something that makes the deep prot use his shield for more threat would be almost a must have.

[Mativh]

Hello!

Good to see you here

So, the one hand expecialization giving +5 in all one handed weapons is a better idea than more damage or a chance for more range. But this +threat isnt without a reason, because its notorious the fact that prot warriors do not build threat, so i still think its justifided, however, this bonus threat based in the defense skill could be added in the Juggernaut hability that you discribed instead of making you charge while in combat. This change in Juggernaut i think its needed, first because this reminds me too much of retail, and seccond is that deep prot needs, more than anything, is more threat in a constant way, not dependable in a shield slam crit.

Your improved revenge idea is cool, and this combo with shield slam also is a great idea. But i dont think that spell reflection should be added to the deep prot, instead could be added to deep protection pallies, so they can have their +.

And lastly, prot is almost all about using a shield, so something that makes the deep prot use his shield for more threat would be almost a must have.

Likewise

I've edited the initial reply addressing what you've mentioned, take a second look.
I like the flow of blocking-counterattacking-shieldslamming as well.
For Paladins something more abstract and Holy-related could better work as an anti-magic capacity, I think the more mundane concept of reflecting a spell with ones shield fits Warriors the best.
I've vanillified Juggernaut a bit.
Between the Improved Revenge allowing Revenge to be more frequent, Incite utilising the Warriors offensive abilities and Barbed Bulwark interracting with Spiked Shields, I believe that now threat can be consistently generated in a dynamic manner.

[Wilsonsds]

Prot tree revisioned:

Toughness compressed into 3 ranks; 3/6/10%, instead of 2/4/6/8/10%.

Iron Will compressed into 3 ranks; 5/10/15% resist chance, instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.

Sunder Armor Also increases the amount of sundered armor by 3/6/10%.

Compressing those is really a good idea, so make more space to add more interesting habilities. Also, your Sunder Armor could do more harm than good, because this way the other warrios will not be able to mantain it.

Revenge reworked;
5 Rage, no cooldown
Rank 1
Instantly counterattack an enemy for 50% weapon damage + 12 to 14 damage and a high amount of threat. Revenge must follow a block, dodge or parry and can be used only once every 6 seconds.

6 sec internal cooldown of it's proc chance, instead of 5 sec basic ability cooldown, as it is ment to be used right after a block dodge or parry, and it being useable while on CD makes no sense conceptually.

Well thats is true, but my reasoning was to try to agro multiple mobs, since with many mobs attaking you, you would be able to spam it.

Improved Revenge switched position with Improved Sunder Armor (since Revenge is learned later), and reworked;
3 ranks;
Revenge has a 10/20/30% chance to stun the target for 2 seconds and can now be used once every 5/4/3 seconds.

Well, i think is a middle ground from what i wanted, and its good to avoid unintentional OP ideas.

Improved Shield Bash compressed into 1 rank; using Shield Bash silences the target for 3 sec, and next to it a new talent, with Improved Shield Bash as a prerequisite:

With Shield Shield Bash as a prerequisite you mean.

Spell Reflection
45 sec cooldown, Instant
Requires Shields
Raise your shield, reflecting the next spell cast on you. Lasts 5 sec. Can't be used with Shield Spikes.

A new addition to this ability is that it is only useable if your shield doesn't have Shield Spikes applied on it, and the coooldown has been increased. Alternatively, Spell Reflection could be ommited and Improved Shield Bash would remain to be 2 ranks.

Spell reflection may look a nice thing in the end, because could make prot warriors usefull in PVP against casters.

Improved Taunt switches position with One Handed Specialization, and next to Improved Taunt a new talent, with it as a prerequisite:

The One Handed Specialization has to be in the 6th row, because if its not it loses its purpose and may be used in a dps build. Because the idea of this skill is to clear space for more tanking gear and to do not be so HIT dependent.

Also. how about adding in improved taunt (adding 1 more point to spend) that taunt would work in PVP? For its duration the target of the player taunted would be locked in him for the duration of the taunt.

Incite
1 rank
After Taunting, your next Heroic Strike, Thunder Clap or Cleave causes higher amount of threat and has increased critical hit chance by 10%.

One Handed Specialization additionally increases skill with all one handed weapons by 1/2/3/4/5.

Agreed, but make these two as deep in this build possible.

Improved Shield Wall moved to one row below and renamed/reworked as;

Barbed Bulwark
3 ranks
Increases the threat generated from Shield Spikes attached to your shield by 33/66/100% and increases the duration of your Shield Wall by 3/6/10 seconds.

I think that additional 10 secconds is too much, maybe by increasing the duration 2/4/7 and reducing its cooldown 5/10/15 min.

A new talent positioned in the last row, under Barbed Bulwark and next to Shield Slam;

Indomitable
1 Rank
Reduces the cooldown of your Intervene by 5 seconds and during Bloodrage you can use Charge while in combat.

Shield Slam costing 15 rage, 10 sec cooldown, the debuffing only occuring on a critical hit, accompanied by a knockback.

Next to it a new talent:

Improved Shield Slam
1 rank
A succesful Revenge hit increases the critical hit chance of your next Shield Slam by 5% for 9 seconds, stacks up to 3 times.

These ideas are good, but why are you reluctant to make a new ability called:

Threatining Protector (instead of Indomitable)
Your defense skill will gives the warrior a bonus threat while using a shield (the % is igual 1/2 of parry/block/dodge rating).

[Jc473]

These ideas are good, but why are you reluctant to make a new ability called:

Threatining Protector (instead of Indomitable)
Your defense skill will gives the warrior a bonus threat while using a shield (the % is igual 1/2 of parry/block/dodge rating).

How is the bonus threat applied? Is it like 'Defiance' where your attacks get bonus threat generation?

This way all Deep prot problens are solved, you improve its threat generation and gets a great mitigation, in return your dps is low. Because the idea of prot warriors is to be specialized in shield usage.

I always thought a good way to promote shield usuage was to reward the person with bonus %threat when they block an attack. To be clear, the %threat would simply multiply your current threat against the mob by a factor (e.g. 5% --> current threat * 1.05). Thematically, I think it makes sense because having your attack blocked by a shield must be an infuriating experience.

Even with Shield Specialisation, your block chance will only ever be as high as 10%. So, the chances of getting this bonus %threat aren't great. But what if the talent also further increased your block chance as well?

So, for example:

31point talent - Threatining Protector - increase your chance to block attacks with a shield by 10% and each successful block will increase your current threat by 10%.

So, basically, 1 in 5 attacks would give you a 10% boost to your current threat. I have no idea if that's too weak/powerful but I just like the defensive theme of this idea more than an offensive one, e.g. increasing the threat generation from your attacks.

[Wilsonsds]

These ideas are good, but why are you reluctant to make a new ability called:

Threatining Protector (instead of Indomitable)
Your defense skill will gives the warrior a bonus threat while using a shield (the % is igual 1/2 of parry/block/dodge rating).

How is the bonus threat applied? Is it like 'Defiance' where your attacks get bonus threat generation?

This way all Deep prot problens are solved, you improve its threat generation and gets a great mitigation, in return your dps is low. Because the idea of prot warriors is to be specialized in shield usage.

I always thought a good way to promote shield usuage was to reward the person with bonus %threat when they block an attack. To be clear, the %threat would simply multiply your current threat against the mob by a factor (e.g. 5% --> current threat * 1.05). Thematically, I think it makes sense because having your attack blocked by a shield must be an infuriating experience.

Even with Shield Specialisation, your block chance will only ever be as high as 10%. So, the chances of getting this bonus %threat aren't great. But what if the talent also further increased your block chance as well?

So, for example:

31point talent - Threatining Protector - increase your chance to block attacks with a shield by 10% and each successful block will increase your current threat by 10%.

So, basically, 1 in 5 attacks would give you a 10% boost to your current threat. I have no idea if that's too weak/powerful but I just like the defensive theme of this idea more than an offensive one, e.g. increasing the threat generation from your attacks.

I liked your idea, but lets adress your first question, i was thinking that this bonus threat applied passively that would be aways active and dependent on your defense skill, and works alike the threat enchant on gloves (i mean the mechanical in game calculations).

And to adreess your idea, that i really liked, but it has one small problem, its good to maintain the agro, but how to recover it? There are bosses that you must mantain a high threat without being attacked constantly, like the Last bosses of AQ20 and ES. I think that the best reward for a block is the improvement of the bonus rage.

Also, when i said to solve the deep prot problens was not to make it the perfect tank, but to solve its problens within his pros and cons. Or from what he was designed to do iniciatlly.

[Wilsonsds]

How about this

Toughness compressed into 3 ranks; 3/6/10%, instead of 2/4/6/8/10%.

Iron Will compressed into 3 ranks; 5/10/15% resist chance, instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.

Improved Shield BLock expanded into 2 ranks; 1/2 additional blocks to shield block, 0.5/1 secs of additional durantion and 1/2 additoinal rage on block.

Revenge reworked;
5 Rage, no cooldown
Rank 1
Instantly counterattack an enemy for 50% weapon damage + 12 to 14 damage and a high amount of threat. Revenge must follow a block, dodge or parry and can be used only once every 6 seconds.

Improved Revenge compressed in 2 ranks and switched position with Improved Sunder Armor (since Revenge is learned later), and reworked;
3 ranks;
Revenge has a 15/30% chance to stun the target for 2 seconds and can now be used once every 4/2 seconds.

Spell Reflection
45 sec cooldown, Instant
Requires Shields
Raise your shield, reflecting the next spell cast on you. Lasts 5 sec. Can't be used with Shield Spikes.

A new addition to this ability is that it is only useable if your shield doesn't have Shield Spikes applied on it, and the coooldown has been increased. Alternatively, Spell Reflection could be ommited and Improved Shield Bash would remain to be 2 ranks.

Improved taunt: compressed in one point, reducing its cooldown in 2 secs.

Undeniedble taunting: a new talent additioned on the right side of taunt, as improved taunt as prerequisite, 1 point, taunt works against another players for its duration. Has Improved taunt as a prerequisite.

The player taunted will have his target locked in the warrior by the duration of the spell, he has free will in not attacking and moving.

Barbed Bulwark (replacing Improved Shield Wall)
3 ranks
Increases the threat generated from Shield Spikes attached to your shield by 33/66/100% and increases the duration of your Shield Wall by 2/5/8 seconds.

Beneath Barbed Bulwark, a new skill (not as a prerequisite)
Threatining Protector (instead of Indomitable)
Your defense skill will gives the warrior a bonus threat while using a shield (the % is igual 1/2 of parry/block/dodge rating).

This bonus threat is applied passively and would be always active if a shield is equiped and dependent on your defense skill, also, it works alike the threat enchant on gloves (i mean the mechanical in game calculations).

As a standard in the game, for very point of Defense gives 0.04% dodge, 0.04% parry, 0.04% block, 0.04% reduced chance to be hit, 0.04% reduced chance to be crit. This new ability would give 0.02 % of bonus threat to the warrior while using shield.

Shield Slam (reworked) costing 10 rage, 5 sec cooldown, the debuffing only occuring on a critical hit, accompanied by a knockback.

Next to it a new talent:

Improved Shield Slam reworked
1 rank
A succesful Revenge hit increases the critical hit chance of your next Shield Slam by 5% for 9 seconds, stacks up to 3 times.


One Hand Speacialization (reworked and in the same position) additionally increases skill with all one handed weapons by 1/2/3/4/5.



@Mativh thanks for your contribution!

[Jc473]

And to adreess your idea, that i really liked, but it has one small problem, its good to maintain the agro, but how to recover it? There are bosses that you must mantain a high threat without being attacked constantly, like the Last bosses of AQ20 and ES. I think that the best reward for a block is the improvement of the bonus rage.

Well, I think it's absolutely OK if there are situations where the deep prot spec does not excel at. A spec having strengths & weaknesses is good RPG design. So, in this case, the strength of a shield wearing prot warrior is when they are being focused. Conversely, they are weaker when not being focused. This weakness creates opportunities for other classes (e.g. Druid/Paladin tanks) or requires different tactics from the warrior (e.g. switch to dual wield when you aren't being focused).

Here's another alternative idea design for Threatining Protector which encourages shield usage:

Increase block chance by 10% and, on a successful block, resets shield slam cooldown.
Maybe it could also reduce the rage requirement instead (or both)?

This creates a rewarding moment when you block an attack and you could actually choose to shield slam an entirely different enemy (---> better threat against multiple mobs).

[Wilsonsds]

And to adreess your idea, that i really liked, but it has one small problem, its good to maintain the agro, but how to recover it? There are bosses that you must mantain a high threat without being attacked constantly, like the Last bosses of AQ20 and ES. I think that the best reward for a block is the improvement of the bonus rage.

Well, I think it's absolutely OK if there are situations where the deep prot spec does not excel at. A spec having strengths & weaknesses is good RPG design. So, in this case, the strength of a shield wearing prot warrior is when they are being focused.

Conversely, they are weaker when not being focused. This weakness creates opportunities for other classes (e.g. Druid/Paladin tanks) or requires different tactics from the warrior (e.g. switch to dual wield when you aren't being focused).

Here's another alternative idea design for Threatining Protector which encourages shield usage:

Increase block chance by 10% and, on a successful block, resets shield slam cooldown.
Maybe it could also reduce the rage requirement instead (or both)?

This creates a rewarding moment when you block an attack and you could actually choose to shield slam an entirely different enemy (---> better threat against multiple mobs).

First, these +10% of block is not useful, because with Shield Block on you can easily get over +60% of block. Second, i dont know why, but why are you with the idea of "creating opportunities for other classes"? Deep prot one of the tanks that are needing more opportunities, because as far i can see (sorry if im wrong) is the worse class/specialization to hold mobs and bosses. As you said, deep prot is useless when not focused, so it must have better ways to be focused on.

I agree that tanks of different kinds must have their pros and cons, but threat generation in single target is the main atribute of all tanks. They should deviate where their mitigation and mechanics is great with, not if they can hold threat or not...

Where the other tanks deviate?
Well,
1) Furry prot does a lot of damage (holding threat), but they recieve more damage than the other tanks. They also have some nice mechanics to avoid fear. Also they have a great rage generation.

2) Paladin is good for aoe and single targets, can bubble others to cancel their threat and must always be concerned with mana but this was heavly mitigated with teas and pots. They can remove many things bubbling theirselves, removing the bubble and re taunting. They have a good block, and dont have to swap weapons to tank multiple mobs. They also dont need to care much about hit or by having a high mitigation, since they dont use rage. Also they have blessing of freedom, they can dispell almost anything but curses on self.

3)Bear have high health pool and armor, besides can tank well 2 to 4 mobs, they can quick change forms to a quick self heal if have an oppening, they self heal in bear form also. They also can avoid some fears. Also, they dont get disarmed. And they dont block but have high dodge. Ahh yes, they also can use their shapeshift to get out of some movement impairment spells.

4) Deep prot, right now, all his mitigation is almost the same as the fury prot with a shield but with low damage, and cant hold threat. Since the furry prot can build a lead in threat then equip a shield for mitigation. They have problens with fear and aoe fights.

5) Since they are few, i dont know much about shaman tanks in Twow. But one thing i know for sure, the are damm good in making threat!

What i am trying to solve is just that, making him not a meme spec, so he can do the basic that is holding threat without doing more damage, to be viable to tank, and for that he needs more souces of bonus threat. Im fine with deep prot being a single target tanking, with low dps. They have milited anti fear mechanics, high rage thirst, greatly hit dependent and have a realy hard time hold threat.

Also, spamming shield slam would be op, do a lot of damage, make revenge less useful.

Besides that, the reward for shielding I’ve added, a reworked improved shield block, but i really think that adding more %threat when a block occurs is a great idea, and should be changed in the base stats for all tanks, not just deep prot, hell, even pallies could benefit from this.

[Wilsonsds]

For what you said

For what you said

Hello i edited some of my replies making more sense of my thoughts.

[Mativh]

I think the last iteration of the threatening protector (defense increasing threat generation while wielding a shield) is quite good, it fits the warriors theme as defense is the defensive combat prowess, while it's twin stat, the weapon skill is the offensive combat prowess. And it characterizes and differentiates the warrior from other tanks the best;

defense, shield-wielding.

I agree with JC473 that blocking could be given a bigger impact, perhaps the talent could reward both bonus threat from defense and increased threat from a block.

I'd keep indomitable as mobility improvement in deep prot is something that defines better the warrior tanks.

Incite is a concept that very much fits the dynamics of a warrior tank. You threaten the opponent, and then incite it to attack you by using your offensive abilities, the most grounded way to convey real life threat generation. I'd keep it too.

Bulwark could be 2/4/6 sec since it provides shield spike bonus; which is another thing warrior tanks could differentiate themselves with, interactions of various systems like classes races and professions should be more prevalent as they deepen world coherence and immersion. If vetween Threatening Protector and Incite there would be enough threat, Bulwark could simply increase shield spike damage or give a chance to cause small short bleeding that stacks (hence the barbed).

Imp. Revenge; I'd not go below 3 sec internal cooldown of revenge becoming available. And at least keep it 3 ranks reducing Revenge avaiablility from 6 to 5/4/3 sec.

Overall I like a lot the end result of our brainstorming here.

[Noephix]

What deep prot needs is more threat buried deep in prot tree, at 21 points or lower - cause otherwise it's gonna be just a buff for furyprot.

Easy way to improve deep prot would be adding a stacking buff to shield slam that increases your threat by, say, 5% per stack and stacks like 3 times.

[Arthurusmenks]

I'd say change improved revenge to do more damage and cleave or you could modify improved sunder to do weapon damage on the target along with the sunder.

I kinda liked, but this is basically a Copy of devastate from classic, and this if added, should be added to the base spell to benefit all warriors not just prot. Besides that, revege could have a reduced CD instead of a +damage.

I think that the devastate from SoD fits pretty well into the overall classic/vainilla feel and it being mainly for prot makes sense given that other dps specs have another abilities that can be spammed besides the 31th talent in their tree meanwhile prot wars only have shield slam and revenge.

[Xronisf79]

Your suggestions are interesting, but mean nothing if the devs have no desire to even bother with the prot tree. Is there any plan from them to improve the deep prot? Or we will bloodthirst our way to Kel thusad in naxx ?

[Calli]

Just boost their damage! Let those revenges and shield slams hit hard! Revenge's damage is a joke. Threat comes with damage naturally. No need to overcomplicate this, guys.