What next for custom content

[Bonado]

One of my favourite things about Turtle WoW is the custom content and what I'd love to see as I'm sure many would is more of it ... but what? Here's a few things I can think of and I'd love to hear people's thoughts, additions, subtractions.

New Classes
No new classes, unless Turtle WoW can find a way to completely redesign and add DK and DH as Horde and Alliance exclusives respectively, that feel vanilla, fit vanilla and don't make other classes redundant I'd be hard pressed to want any new classes.

New Races
New races on the other hand I'd love to see more of, High Elf and Goblin are great and feel right at home. I wouldn't want something gimmicky that doesn't make sense like Murlocs, Furbolgs or Nagas though. If we get new races it should be something that fits in with the lore.

New Zones
Gilneas and Hyjal are amazing and makes me want more questing zones, however I want to avoid going to Outlands, Northrend, etc... without them being heavily redesigned as that's not vanilla. A few I can think of that could be added are:

• Eversong Forest + Ghostlands

(Could go either way as being a low-mid level area or Closer to Plaguelands but I'd want almost full reimagining of quests)

• Undermine

(Many Goblins mention it, could be like a supersized Gadgetzan where the whole city is neutral with quests about killing neutral npcs)

• Uldum

(Probably Around Tanaris to Un'goro 45-55ish?)

• Tol Barad

(Could be somewhere we sail to at 30+)

New Dungeons + Raids
Again with the new zones also comes dungeons and/or raids.

• Zul'Aman

(If Ghostlands gets added a Zul'Gurub 2.0 would be great)

• Silvermoon City

(Like how Gilneas City became a dungeon I'd love this to be a new 10/20 Man Raid new in ruins from the Legion + Scourge)

• Baradin Hold

(A prison for the unusual and dangerous could be somewhere around 35-40)

• Grim Batol

(An obvious one but making it an Ironforge looking level 60 5-10 man dungeon/raid would be cool similar to BRS)

• Something Uldum

(Whether that's Silithid, Titans, Al'akir, I don't know but another 45-55 range dungeon would be great.)

• Something Azshara

(Whether this is Furbolgs, Naga or Hydraxian it'd be fun to see a 45-55 dungeon and slight rework for actual quests in the zone.)

• Something Hinterlands

(We have a whole lot of Trolls in the area, why not have Zul'Farak 2.0, can even be the same level range)

• Something Hillsbrad

(What's in the Dalaran Crater? Let's find out! Why is the instance so big on the inside and small on the outside? Magic! could be something around low to mid 30s)

• More Caverns of Time

(Doesn't even need to be backported original CoT dungeons/raids, could be new original content going back to other historical events.)

• Outlands

(I know in the zones I said no to Outlands but having it be a 40 man AQ sized open raid going through the old outlands map exterminating demons would be great as demons play a very small part in Vanilla WoW bonus points for AQ style opening event on top)

These are just my ideas from a couple invasive thoughts kept on a notepad so I'd love to hear what other people would be interested in seeing.

[Bob022]

There should be some assets for part of outland (Hellfire, perhaps some of zangarmarsh) in the as-launch client. These were never finished, nor utilized in-game, but at times could be accessed by players using various covert means (akin to Karazhan Crypt) and might be able to form the basis of something to use on T-wow. Or it might be too incomplete to salvage. We have plenty of other areas on our world map that could be filled in. It's very obvious that T-wow has some plan for Kul Tiras, for example. In general I would like to see more solo, group, and 10 man content, with a de-emphasis on 20/40 man raids.

Character classes are problematic. I'm not entirely hostile to new classes, but it's preferable to see the effort expended on further refining the builds we already have available. If new classes were to be added, at the very least they should be explicitly designed to work within existing, common itemization--there are already enough problems out there relating to specific builds wanting very specific equipment, with some builds hampered more by lack of gear support than necessarily by any faults innate to the build. Don't repeat that!

[Bonado]

In general I would like to see more solo, group, and 10 man content, with a de-emphasis on 20/40 man raids.

Definitely love to see more solo and 5/10 man content especially stuff between 30-58 but a little bit of 40 player content here and there doesn't hurt either, it's an exclusively Vanilla WoW thing because outside of World Bosses 40 player content was entirely decommissioned after Vanilla.

[Trickyduck87]

I believe it's more important to expand on the incomplete ideas that blizz left us with that's evident in the game. Considering this, one zone that comes to mind is Azshara, I'd love to see Azshara turned into an event pvp zone and questing hub.

[Ashstache]

Gurubashi Catacombs (beneath Gurubashi Arena) would be a good way to tie some storylines in STV together. Zone doesn't have any dungeon, either.

Dalaran would be fun as a sort of magical The Zone from STALKER. I love the city as it was presented in Wrath, but as TWoW canon goes the Horde would never be welcomed; therefore I think it best serves as a piece of dungeon/raid content or something similar to be plundered for magical artifacts and class tomes or the like.

[Eversongwoods]

Eversong Woods/Ghostlands & most importantly the best bg in any mmorpg ever Temple of Kotmogu would be what i want to see added

[Bonado]

Gurubashi Catacombs (beneath Gurubashi Arena) would be a good way to tie some storylines in STV together.

If this gets added I'd love for it to be an always on pvp zone like the arena itself and it's just an expansive FFA PvPvE area where we can go tomb raiding for level 40-58 Greens with occasional BoP blues.

[Ashstache]

Gurubashi Catacombs (beneath Gurubashi Arena) would be a good way to tie some storylines in STV together.

If this gets added I'd love for it to be an always on pvp zone like the arena itself and it's just an expansive FFA PvPvE area where we can go tomb raiding for level 40-58 Greens with occasional BoP blues.

I was imagining a dungeon. Your idea isn't necessarily bad but TWoW is an RP, PVE server first and foremost, so I don't see anything like that ever happening here.

[Azcron]

most importantly the best bg in any mmorpg ever Temple of Kotmogu would be what i want to see added

no

[Reploidrocsa]

New Classes
No new classes, unless Turtle WoW can find a way to completely redesign and add DK and DH as Horde and Alliance exclusives respectively, that feel vanilla, fit vanilla and don't make other classes redundant I'd be hard pressed to want any new classes.

While DK might fit on horde despite being a bit weird, i don't think DH should go to alliance. Spell breaker/battle mage sounds more fitting to me. Still a titanic task to do, plan, talenting and balancing

New Races
New races on the other hand I'd love to see more of, High Elf and Goblin are great and feel right at home. I wouldn't want something gimmicky that doesn't make sense like Murlocs, Furbolgs or Nagas though. If we get new races it should be something that fits in with the lore.

Robo dwarves, robotic inventions controlled remotelly by gnomes or with their proper AI that resembles a dwarf. Robotic reskin of a dwarf model.

Undead elves. Use the old high elves model, change its colors to look more undeadish and add maybe some extra faces/hairs.

A lot of work for not much in return atm

New Zones
Gilneas and Hyjal are amazing and makes me want more questing zones, however I want to avoid going to Outlands, Northrend, etc... without them being heavily redesigned as that's not vanilla. A few I can think of that could be added are:

• Eversong Forest + Ghostlands

(Could go either way as being a low-mid level area or Closer to Plaguelands but I'd want almost full reimagining of quests)

• Undermine

(Many Goblins mention it, could be like a supersized Gadgetzan where the whole city is neutral with quests about killing neutral npcs)

• Uldum

(Probably Around Tanaris to Un'goro 45-55ish?)

• Tol Barad

(Could be somewhere we sail to at 30+)

Add food/drink facilities too! There's plenty of alterac swiss but i see no cheesery nor a single cow in alterac mountains! Same with dalaran sharp and dalaran pinot noir. I want to be able to visit the places of origin of all those items. Bakeries in mulgore, cabbage fields in night elf lands, cheeseries in human/dwarven zones and localized breweries.

New Dungeons + Raids
Again with the new zones also comes dungeons and/or raids.

• Zul'Aman

(If Ghostlands gets added a Zul'Gurub 2.0 would be great)

• Silvermoon City

(Like how Gilneas City became a dungeon I'd love this to be a new 10/20 Man Raid new in ruins from the Legion + Scourge)

• Baradin Hold

(A prison for the unusual and dangerous could be somewhere around 35-40)

• Grim Batol

(An obvious one but making it an Ironforge looking level 60 5-10 man dungeon/raid would be cool similar to BRS)

• Something Uldum

(Whether that's Silithid, Titans, Al'akir, I don't know but another 45-55 range dungeon would be great.)

• Something Azshara

(Whether this is Furbolgs, Naga or Hydraxian it'd be fun to see a 45-55 dungeon and slight rework for actual quests in the zone.)

• Something Hinterlands

(We have a whole lot of Trolls in the area, why not have Zul'Farak 2.0, can even be the same level range)

• Something Hillsbrad

(What's in the Dalaran Crater? Let's find out! Why is the instance so big on the inside and small on the outside? Magic! could be something around low to mid 30s)

• More Caverns of Time

(Doesn't even need to be backported original CoT dungeons/raids, could be new original content going back to other historical events.)

• Outlands

(I know in the zones I said no to Outlands but having it be a 40 man AQ sized open raid going through the old outlands map exterminating demons would be great as demons play a very small part in Vanilla WoW bonus points for AQ style opening event on top)

Except Zul Aman which doesn't make too much sense since forest trolls are part of the horde, rest are wonderful ideas. I believe zul aman would work better as a quest hub for the horde with quests related to silvermoon, while alliance could have something completely different

[Stags]

Except Zul Aman which doesn't make too much sense since forest trolls are part of the horde, rest are wonderful ideas. I believe zul aman would work better as a quest hub for the horde with quests related to silvermoon, while alliance could have something completely different

It’s entirely possible that though some forest trolls embrace Thrall’s Horde, others may still resent the orcs for abandoning them in the Second War. Plus, being isolated from every other tribe in the wake of the Scourge may have left any survivors bitter & isolationist. Definitely a lot of ways to go with it, if the team wants to.

That said: there’s a lot of room to play in Amani territory (and Quel’thalas)! Zul’Aman could be reimagined as a Horde hub town in the north. Ula-Tek/Ula’Tek could make an appearance as a 5-10 man instance boss. She does come from the Warcraft RPG, but she was canon enough in 2004 to get her temple on the WoW Game Manual’s map. Combine that with what scant info we have on the Maisara Hills from the RPG & Game Manual Map, and you’ve got a town, dungeon & questing area.

I’m not 100% on what the Alliance/High Elf equivalents would be, but I’m sure that between Warcraft 3, TBC & Vanilla resources, something very cool could be manifested. Having part of the city be a reclaimed hub and the other part as a quest area is still a cool concept that isn’t explored enough in the official adaptation. There’s definitely room for more content around that (and maybe a dungeon that takes you into or beneath the city?).

Combine H/A quest through Eversong/Ghostlands (they may be something else in TWoW, but I’m using these for simplicity’s sake)? Maybe in the wake of Naxxramas, the Argent Dawn sends a vanguard forward into Quel’thalas in the hopes of purging the Dead Scar & weakening the Scourge’s grip on the region, etc etc. Like I said, lots of room to play around!

[Imonobor]

A level 42-50 10-man raid would be amazing. That level range is when builds really become interesting to play and it would be another thing entirely to experience that in a small-raid environment. It could also be done at 50+ by a 5-man group by outleveling the content.

I love all of these ideas! I'd like to add Ogres to the list of new playable races, I'd absolutely love to play one.

[Sylveria]

Regarding Tol Barad:
Since it has been hinted in a Quest in Gilneas (regarding the missing Perenolde heir), i doubt that Tol Barad will be below Gilneas-Level. So IF Tol Barad will be a thing, propably 45+ or 50+.

Quel'thalas is almost sure as hell, that this will be a thing at some point. Same goes for Outland. Both were already hinted a long time ago by Turtle.

After seeing Icerock Point though, I'd like to see a re-imagined Northrend. That should be a lot more like in WarCraft III. Northrend in WotLK was just... way too warm. No area besides the Stormpeaks really felt "cold". Icecrown was propably the most disappointing one for me... and we don't even have to talk about Sholazar Basin...
WotLK was the Addon that started to implement the Titans as a Deus Ex Machina. You could explain EVERYTHING with the Titans. ("Why is there a jungle in the middle of the "Frozen Continent"?" "Because of the Titans.." ... Rather poor explanation imho.)

[Mativh]

I've been discussing this on Turtle WoW Discord and thought of a potential lore development in the future, divided between two major patches/expansions, in order to reach eventually the following:

(it's very crude, I didn't go into details, just a general idea and some lore laid out that could lead to it)

Warcraft 3 had 4 factions:
- Alliance
- Scourge
- Horde
- Sentinel



All hostile against each other, like Horde and Alliance is in WoW.
Except when the Horde/Alliance/Sentinel joined as equals against the Burning Legion.

All factions with very distinct and unique thematic, history, goals, interests, values, aesthetics, lore, races.

But for various reasons (partly related to development of WoW), 2 factions have been retconned to sidekick underdogs, not doing them justice at all.

Imagine the entire Alliance and Horde factions erased, and instead the MMO iteration of the franchise would have Forsaken vs Sentinels with the Night Elves at the top of Sentinels, saying "For the Sentinels!", and the Alliance faction compressed into sidekick Human race as member of the Sentinels, with the Forsaken absorbing the Orcish Horde the same...
Well that's what happened, just reversed.

I propose a 4 faction system, 4 races in each faction:

~Alliance~
Faction Leader: Regent Lord Bolvar Fordragon, on behalf of Anduin, in absence of King Varian Wrynn
- Humans
- Dwarves
- Gnomes
- Vrykul

~Sentinel~
Faction Co-leaders: High Priestess Tyrande & Archdruid Malfurion
- Night Elves
- The Cenari (Dryads & Keepers of the Grove)
- Worgen (the original ones before Cata retcon)
- Tauren

~Horde~
Faction Leader: Warchief Thrall
- Orcs
- Trolls
- Goblins
- Ogres

~Forsaken~
(instead of the Scourge from W3)
Faction Co-leaders: Banshee Queen Sylvanas & Lord Illidan
- Undeads (The Forsaken)
The Illidari:
- Blood Elves (of Kael'thas, + the current High Elves)
- Nagas
- Broken Draenei (not the TBC retcon)

There'd be only class/race/gender combos that make sense lore-wise, there wouldn't be equal amount of classes for all races, just more or less equal amount of combos among factions.

Additional info:
The Scourge faction of Warcraft 3 became playable in WoW as it's members that broke free, the Forsaken.

Vrykul; Imagine an expedition to the vanillified shores of Northrend, incorporated as horizontal content.

High Elves; after the Blood Elves returned from Outland, the survivor HEs pleaded the Alliance to accept them, but the Alliance forsake them, like the Undead Humans of Lordaeron... and the HEs had to make a difficult choice.. and most of them joined the Blood Elves, the few that remained in the Alliance are not sufficient for a playable race.

The Yseras Dragonkin would match the Sentinels as well because of ties to the Emerald Dream, it'd be unique but also new TWoW lore. but I prefer the Worgen, especially over something like Pandaren.
The Original Worgen have ties to Elune and the Night Elves.
The Cenari'Dorei make more sense than the Furbolgs.

The Tauren, although aligned with Orcish Shamanism and found common ground with Thralls Horde, after witnessing the disregard and expoitation of nature, and dark magic like Voodoo and the Fel present in the Horde, their nature was more in line with the cause of the Sentinels and were driven towards changing faction eventually.

The past ties and present common goals of the ex-High Elves (who have joined the Naga and Broken under the leadership of Illidan) and the Undead Kingdom of Lordaeron brought together the Forsaken and Illidari races into a Faction defined by their common history, values and goals.
The Forsaken of Sylvanas refused to fight the Blood Elves on behalf of the Horde, and saved the Illidari from the onslaught of both Alliance and Horde.
They all have been Forsaken.
The Illidari (Blood Elves, Naga and the Broken) joining the Forsaken in a separate faction would happed after Turtle WoW added vanillified Outland (mostly being Hellfire Peninsula from TBC) incorporated as horizontal content.

See below the gradual development of the lore in this direction.

[Mativh]

I've proposed on Turtle WoW Discord (rp-lore) a potential custom content in the future, divided between two major patches/expansions...

Fanmade/suggestion of Turtle WoW lore development:
The transition to 4 factions would be divided between 2 major patches (or expansions), first one:

~ Legacy of the Damned ~



Summary:
New patch/expansion; Legacy of the Damned:
- Illidari: The Blood Elves, Nagas and the Broken, led by Illidan, open the Dark Portal to return to Azeroth after Kil'jaeden ordered an assault on Black Temple
- W3-version Outland is incorporated as horizontal content, only one zone, similar to Hellfire Peninsula from TBC)
- The Ilidari are attacked by both Alliance and Horde
- The Forsaken-Undeads save the Illidari, mainly because of the Blood Elves, and form a standalone faction with them; the Forsaken
- the High Elves are meanwhile made to choose between staying in the Alliance or help the Blood Elves, most of them choose their kin
- There are 3 factions now:
Alliance: Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves
Horde: Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, Tauren
Forsaken: Undeads, Blood Elves, Naga, Broken







Lore:
The Dark Portal Opens, the original W3 Outland (similar to Hellfire Peninsula in TBC) is incorporated as horizontal content, the Illidari (Blood Elves, Naga & the Broken) return to Azeroth, Illidan opened the Dark Portal to flee from the wrath of Kil'jaeden, who has ordered a demonic assault on Black Temple.



The Illidari are met with hostility by both the Alliance and the Horde. However it gets complicated, Sylvanas of the Forsaken is ordered to start an onslaught on her former folk, the Blood Elves, the Undead Humans of Lordaeron are instructed by the savage races they've allied themselves with out of neccesity, to annihilate the survivors of their neighboring kingdom, whose ill fate has a lot in common with the Forsaken, let alone their shared history.
Sylvanas has a choice to make, loyalty to the Horde, or finishing off the elves and their new allies... the Illidari are surrounded by both Alliance and the Horde... the Banshee Queen has decided long ago, and saves the struggling Illidari instead.
Declaring an union between her people; the Undead Humans of Lordaeron, and the races of the Illidari; the Blood Elves of prince Kael'thas, the Naga of Lady Vashj and the Broken Ashtongue tribe led by Akama.

From now on they are collectively known as the Forsaken.


Connected by much more than mere strategic convenience. the members of this new faction have many compatibilities not present before and can relate to each other better.



Sylvanas and Illidan are co-leaders, although the Banshee Queen has the last say. Varimathas is executed by Illidan.

Meanwhile, the High Elves are made to choose between Alliance and their kin, the Blood Elves led by Kael'thas. The High Elves, still mourning Quel'thalas, recognize that the means taken by their prince were neccesary to ensure the survival of their race, who were forsaken by all in a dire situation.. it makes them question the onslaught against the undead humans of Lordaeron.
They plead for the Alliance to accept the Blood Elves, making a comparison with their fate and the Forsaken, pointing out that they are not anymore under the control of the Lich King yet they were also rejected. This attempt to shift Alliances perspective has an opposite effect, as the comparison of the Blood Elves to the "monstruous" Undeads, as well as the Night Elves holding grudge against the Illidari, drives the Alliance to make the High Elves choose between their kin and their allies.
For most of the High Elves, the answer is clear... Alah'thalas welcomes the Blood Elves of Illidari and ally themselves with the Forsaken faction.

[Mativh]

Fanmade/suggestion of Turtle WoW lore development:
The transition to 4 factions would be divided between 2 major patches (or expansions), first one:

~ Legacy of the Damned ~


3 Factions:







Lore:
...

The lore development following Legacy of the Damned:

Warcraft 3 had 4 factions, the Forsaken are the replacement of the Scourge.

After quite some time, could be;

~ Echoes of Eternity ~

It will put things in motion that will result in the formation of the 4th faction;

Sentinels



Night Elves will break off from the Alliance and continue on their unique path like they did in Warcraft 3.
The Night Elves have remained allied with the Humans and their allies since the joined effort against Archimonde, and because of the battle at Warsong Gulch against their common foe; the Horde, but the industrious races of Alliance have never formed close enough ties with the nature-oriented Night Elves.
The Children of Cenarius (Dryads and Keepers of the Grove) are called upon and become one of the races of Sentinels.
The Original Worgen have close ties to Night Elves, and they become another race that joins the Sentinels, they worship Elune whose grace tempers their vicious nature.



The Tauren join the Sentinels, whose values resonate more with them than the destruction and exploitation of nature by the races of the Horde, apart from the shadowy practices involving voodoo and fel magic.
Tauren and Night Elves were allies in the battle against the Burning Legion 10,000 years ago, and since then there was no hostility between them, the only interaction has been a friendly one; acceptance in the Cenarion Cicle. The Tauren were grateful for Thralls aid in that one battle against the Centaur but it doesn't varrant the Tauren to go against their values forever.
Meanwhile, Tirisfal Glades is being raided by sailors from far away lands, one gets caught and is experimented on by the Forsaken, it's jail-mate, a captured mountaneer dwarf learns about their culture and their Titan heritage, they both escape and make it to Hillsbrad Foothills, an urgent mail is sent from Southshore to the Alliance leaders, who find their ranks of allies ever dwindling, and at war on three fronts against mainly the Horde and Forsaken, but on tense terms with the Sentinels as well. A dwarven-led expedition takes us to the shores of Northrend, which is incorporated as horizontal content. Some of the Vrykul see the Lich King as the Death-God from their folk tales, other ones, aligned with their Titan heritage, see the truth, distance themselves and they join the Alliance.



The Horde stands their ground, the drums of war echo louder than ever, warchief Thrall rallies the scattered Ogre clans to his side.



Thus, the 4 unique factions of Warcraft 3 at long last re-emerge in the MMO iteration of the franchise, each with 4 races:

Alliance
Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Vrykul

Sentinels
Night Elves, Children of Cenarius, Worgen, Tauren

Horde
Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, Ogres

Forsaken
Undeads, Blood Elves, Naga, Broken

[Bonado]

Thus, the 4 unique factions of Warcraft 3 at long last re-emerge in the MMO iteration of the franchise, each with 4 races:
- Alliance: Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Vrykul
- Sentinels: Night Elves, Children of Cenarius, Worgen, Tauren
- Horde: Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, Ogres
- Forsaken: Undeads, Blood Elves, Naga, Broken

I'm personally not a big fan of this, TWoW is meant to be an extension of Vanilla, reworking factions and making room for 2 entirely new ones would be a massive undertaking and basically not vanilla anymore.

While Tauren share their beliefs with Night Elves in a lot of ways they're sworn to the Horde as part of the Warcraft III campaign. Vrykul canonically hate humans and probably don't think much for gnomes or dwarves either as they kept birthing weird little mutants (humans) and were culling them as it was considered a defect with some being sent off in boats by parents who couldn't bring themselves to kill their offspring. Ogres aren't really in the Horde after Warcraft II as they were essentially either enslaved, manipulated or used by the Orcs rather than having any real alliance with the Stonemaul being the only Horde "Ogres", although they're said to be mingling with Orcs now creating Half-Ogres like Rexxar. Broken would be fun although the only ones on Azeroth are the Lost Ones and if we're introducing any Outlands elements they'd almost always be sided with Dranei, there isn't really any reason not to unless you wanna make the benevolent space goats racist. Finally Pre-Cata Worgen are almost exclusively Druids that have gone insane while in their form, not much of an ally in a crazed dog man that will attack friend and foe on sight.

[Bonado]

Another thing I'd love to see is more World Bosses, not just for level 60 either. I think it'd really cool to see World Bosses for levels 20-58 in other zones that drop unique blues and purples that mainly support lower performing specs as well as sets with set bonuses for lower levels, stuff like the Defias and Fang set are very memorable and loved and it'd be great to see more of them around.

[Karrados]

You are not proposing potential future content, Mativh. You are proposing an entirely new game. There is no feasible way for them to include even half of your suggestions (especially the factions) without tearing apart everything and putting it back together and even then you would have to deal with the massive shitstorm from players that are being displaced to different factions and more.