Definitive Shaman Tank Fixes

[Shammylover67]

Hi all.. donating member here. these are three quick changes that require very little changes to the enhancement tree and are both lore appropriate/class appropriate.


- Rockbiter Weapon: change to also make rockbiter increase all threat generation by 15%, not just melee hits

- Thunderhead: Rework thunderhead to a WC 3 style lightning shield that does damage per second to nearby enemies like an immolate aura. Also transfers 20% of the targeted ally’s threat to the shaman. Helps with very high DPS party members

- Guardian Totems: Add in 50% threat per rank of talent = all damage caused by fire totems directs threat to the shaman. This is a PvP talent already which will not affect any PvE or PVP shaman builds at all since threat does not matter in pvp.


These are such simple minor changes and they finally allow us to provide a solid tank experience for our party members

[Shammylover67]

Bump. These are such easy, simple fixes. No new spells, nothing that will break pvp

[Brandwacht]

Super! What else do I need to do for you? Suppose this is added...later you will want plate armor, justifying this by the presence of a bias in tanking? A good plan. What are you hoping for when you say that you have made a donation. This is ridiculous, as is the very essence of what you are suggesting...

[Shammylover67]

Super! What else do I need to do for you? Suppose this is added...later you will want plate armor, justifying this by the presence of a bias in tanking? A good plan. What are you hoping for when you say that you have made a donation. This is ridiculous, as is the very essence of what you are suggesting...

Nope you entirely missed my point. No spells added. NO plate. Some simple threat reworks for shaman who want to choose it. These are such inoffensive minor changes and they do not affect any other shaman spec or PvP

[Kastok]

Super! What else do I need to do for you? Suppose this is added...later you will want plate armor, justifying this by the presence of a bias in tanking? A good plan. What are you hoping for when you say that you have made a donation. This is ridiculous, as is the very essence of what you are suggesting...

Your post is not helpful in the slightest and is simply demeaning. How about offer actual counterpoints instead of whining.

If he has donated, he is passionate about the project. A true fan who cares about the server.

These changes are small and sensible and could be tested without much difficulty in a test realm.

I don't know why people foam at the mouth when buffs or changes to shaman are brought up. Did an Elemental Shaman hurt you in PvP or did a Resto fail to get a heal off on your HC character?

[Blondboombox]

I think these are really solid suggestions! I'm still not a huge fan of casting lightning shield on an ally, but if a percentage of their threat is transfered that'd be an improvement at least. But as it stands I don't put any talents into improved LS.

[Shammylover67]

I think these are really solid suggestions! I'm still not a huge fan of casting lightning shield on an ally, but if a percentage of their threat is transfered that'd be an improvement at least. But as it stands I don't put any talents into improved LS.

Yeah it’s just a kind of bum spell right now and it’s an iconic part of the WC3 shaman.

[Blondboombox]

Late game threat scaling (rockbiter falls off late) would be amazing Rockbiter increasing all threat generated by X% would be good. These no button added changes are needed though, default UI is almost completely used up between spells, (some of which I haven't bought like sentry totem) weapons/shields, consumables and racials.
I wouldn't mind if 3-5 abilities were removed or combined from the shaman kit.
All that said about needing some pruning I would still love a defensive button to push.

[Brandwacht]

Super! What else do I need to do for you? Suppose this is added...later you will want plate armor, justifying this by the presence of a bias in tanking? A good plan. What are you hoping for when you say that you have made a donation. This is ridiculous, as is the very essence of what you are suggesting...

Your post is not helpful in the slightest and is simply demeaning. How about offer actual counterpoints instead of whining.

If he has donated, he is passionate about the project. A true fan who cares about the server.

These changes are small and sensible and could be tested without much difficulty in a test realm.

I don't know why people foam at the mouth when buffs or changes to shaman are brought up. Did an Elemental Shaman hurt you in PvP or did a Resto fail to get a heal off on your HC character?

It looks like he has already bought upgrades for his class and wants them immediately. The shaman is beautifully made. You want too much for yourself, forgetting that it will ruin the game for others. You are trying to gain advantages in all spheres, why do you need other classes when there will be such a shaman?

[Imonobor]

While these are nice and would definitely improve the lives of many shamatanks, I think the main trouble we have is the absence of a taunt. Our "taunt" is a totem that dies in 2 hits (if you're lucky).

So I think Guardian Totems should make stoneclaw totem redirect mobs to the shaman for 6 secs after being killed. I think this would be more in-line with the original class design and the idea of that totem. It will still be clunky to use, but at least way better than what we have now (and palas have clunky taunts too lol).

Again, just a slight change to an existing spell, nothing major or gamechanging or as the naysayers think, gamebreaking. This change will absolutely not affect any other specs in either PvE or PvP.

It looks like he has already bought upgrades for his class and wants them immediately. The shaman is beautifully made. You want too much for yourself, forgetting that it will ruin the game for others. You are trying to gain advantages in all spheres, why do you need other classes when there will be such a shaman?

Your argument is quite flawed. Nobody wants anything immidiately, they are just suggesting. You just choose to read it and interpret it in the most toxic way. And shaman will never be the best in "all spheres", ESPECIALLY in tanking with that mail armor. We just want it to be a bit more viable and easier without spending hundreds of gold for consumables to make it "kinda" work in the endgame.
Pray tell, how will making shamans better at tanking "ruin the game for everyone else"? Will all tank slots suddenly be taken by shamans somehow, with the other tank classes crying in a corner somewhere?

[Brandwacht]

Your argument is quite flawed. Nobody wants anything immidiately, they are just suggesting. You just choose to read it and interpret it in the most toxic way. And shaman will never be the best in "all spheres", ESPECIALLY in tanking with that mail armor. We just want it to be a bit more viable and easier without spending hundreds of gold for consumables to make it "kinda" work in the endgame.
Pray tell, how will making shamans better at tanking "ruin the game for everyone else"? Will all tank slots suddenly be taken by shamans somehow, with the other tank classes crying in a corner somewhere?

Shamans are not tanks. Your pleas are related to making tanks out of them. You gradually want to do it step by step, it's obvious.

[Imonobor]

Your argument is quite flawed. Nobody wants anything immidiately, they are just suggesting. You just choose to read it and interpret it in the most toxic way. And shaman will never be the best in "all spheres", ESPECIALLY in tanking with that mail armor. We just want it to be a bit more viable and easier without spending hundreds of gold for consumables to make it "kinda" work in the endgame.
Pray tell, how will making shamans better at tanking "ruin the game for everyone else"? Will all tank slots suddenly be taken by shamans somehow, with the other tank classes crying in a corner somewhere?

Shamans are not tanks. Your pleas are related to making tanks out of them. You gradually want to do it step by step, it's obvious.

You just state the obvious while not addressing any of my arguments with ones of your own, and even there you are wrong - Shamans ARE tanks, people use them to tank all the time, they are just subpar compared to other tanking classes and take more effort to make them work as tanks.
Again, whom do we hurt by asking the devs to make shamans better at tanking? You speak like it's some vicious plan to ruin the game step-by-step by the secret shamatanking society or whatever. This is silly. We are just making suggestions to the devs, it's up to them if they will implement them, or make more changes after that.

[Brandwacht]

Your argument is quite flawed. Nobody wants anything immidiately, they are just suggesting. You just choose to read it and interpret it in the most toxic way. And shaman will never be the best in "all spheres", ESPECIALLY in tanking with that mail armor. We just want it to be a bit more viable and easier without spending hundreds of gold for consumables to make it "kinda" work in the endgame.
Pray tell, how will making shamans better at tanking "ruin the game for everyone else"? Will all tank slots suddenly be taken by shamans somehow, with the other tank classes crying in a corner somewhere?

Shamans are not tanks. Your pleas are related to making tanks out of them. You gradually want to do it step by step, it's obvious.

You just state the obvious while not addressing any of my arguments with ones of your own, and even there you are wrong - Shamans ARE tanks, people use them to tank all the time, they are just subpar compared to other tanking classes and take more effort to make them work as tanks.
Again, whom do we hurt by asking the devs to make shamans better at tanking? You speak like it's some vicious plan to ruin the game step-by-step by the secret shamatanking society or whatever. This is silly. We are just making suggestions to the devs, it's up to them if they will implement them, or make more changes after that.

What you think to yourself does not mean that it really is. Shamans are not tanks, they were not conceived as tanks. They don't have tank skills, which is what you're complaining about. There are no skills for tanking because they are NOT tanks. Why is it necessary to compare them with other classes that have the necessary skills for tanking? You make suggestions, I make a suggestion not to change anything. Can I?

[Imonobor]

Shamans are not tanks. Your pleas are related to making tanks out of them. You gradually want to do it step by step, it's obvious.

You just state the obvious while not addressing any of my arguments with ones of your own, and even there you are wrong - Shamans ARE tanks, people use them to tank all the time, they are just subpar compared to other tanking classes and take more effort to make them work as tanks.
Again, whom do we hurt by asking the devs to make shamans better at tanking? You speak like it's some vicious plan to ruin the game step-by-step by the secret shamatanking society or whatever. This is silly. We are just making suggestions to the devs, it's up to them if they will implement them, or make more changes after that.

What you think to yourself does not mean that it really is. Shamans are not tanks, they were not conceived as tanks. They don't have tank skills, which is what you're complaining about. There are no skills for tanking because they are NOT tanks. Why is it necessary to compare them with other classes that have the necessary skills for tanking? You make suggestions, I make a suggestion not to change anything. Can I?

Of course you can, everyone has the right of freedom of speech. However, we are also free to counter your arguments with our own.
Again, I will have to disagree. Shamans were originally intended to be tanks, and a lot of that remains in their class design. Shamans originally were able to wear plate armor (as seen in this item and Thrall's armor design, among other things) and they clearly have both spells and talents tied to threat and damage mitigation:

-Rockbiter Weapon and Earth Shock cause additional Threat
-Elemental Warding, Shield Specialization, Anticipation, Toughness and Guardian Totems are all tank-oriented talents.
-Resistance Totems, Windwall Totem, Grounding Totem and Stoneskin totem provide additional damage mitigation.
-Stoneclaw totem was, I believe, originally intended to be the Shaman's "taunt", but wasn't thought through enough.
-Shamans are able to wield shields and the abovementioned talents boost their effectiveness with them.
(those features are all Blizzard's vanilla, before TWoW's changes)

As a whole, the class was clearly originally intended to be able to tank, but they tried to turn too many normal abilities into totems, and didn't test it enough, or gave up on it halfway through. I don't see why we can't fix the other half and have a 4th tank class. Shamans are already able to tank well in the early game, up to 50-60, where their effectiveness rapidly falls off due to lack of crucial spells like taunt and bad itemization due to mail armor. People can make up for these things with consumables, but as I said, that is too expensive to do and most people give up at that point. But shamans are absolutely able to tank endgame dungeons if they try hard enough. That's a fact and saying otherwise is just false.

Again, I don't see the negative in helping out people who want to delve into the art of shamatanking by making it a bit easier to do. Why are you so feverently against this? Nobody forces you to play your shaman as a tank.

[Brandwacht]

You just state the obvious while not addressing any of my arguments with ones of your own, and even there you are wrong - Shamans ARE tanks, people use them to tank all the time, they are just subpar compared to other tanking classes and take more effort to make them work as tanks.
Again, whom do we hurt by asking the devs to make shamans better at tanking? You speak like it's some vicious plan to ruin the game step-by-step by the secret shamatanking society or whatever. This is silly. We are just making suggestions to the devs, it's up to them if they will implement them, or make more changes after that.

What you think to yourself does not mean that it really is. Shamans are not tanks, they were not conceived as tanks. They don't have tank skills, which is what you're complaining about. There are no skills for tanking because they are NOT tanks. Why is it necessary to compare them with other classes that have the necessary skills for tanking? You make suggestions, I make a suggestion not to change anything. Can I?

Of course you can, everyone has the right of freedom of speech. However, we are also free to counter your arguments with our own.
Again, I will have to disagree. Shamans were originally intended to be tanks, and a lot of that remains in their class design. Shamans originally were able to wear plate armor (as seen in this item and Thrall's armor design, among other things) and they clearly have both spells and talents tied to threat and damage mitigation:

-Rockbiter Weapon and Earth Shock cause additional Threat
-Elemental Warding, Shield Specialization, Anticipation, Toughness and Guardian Totems are all tank-oriented talents.
-Resistance Totems, Windwall Totem, Grounding Totem and Stoneskin totem provide additional damage mitigation.
-Stoneclaw totem was, I believe, originally intended to be the Shaman's "taunt", but wasn't thought through enough.
-Shamans are able to wield shields and the abovementioned talents boost their effectiveness with them.
(those features are all Blizzard's vanilla, before TWoW's changes)

As a whole, the class was clearly originally intended to be able to tank, but they tried to turn too many normal abilities into totems, and didn't test it enough, or gave up on it halfway through. I don't see why we can't fix the other half and have a 4th tank class. Shamans are already able to tank well in the early game, up to 50-60, where their effectiveness rapidly falls off due to lack of crucial spells like taunt and bad itemization due to mail armor. People can make up for these things with consumables, but as I said, that is too expensive to do and most people give up at that point. But shamans are absolutely able to tank endgame dungeons if they try hard enough. That's a fact and saying otherwise is just false.

Again, I don't see the negative in helping out people who want to delve into the art of shamatanking by making it a bit easier to do. Why are you so feverently against this? Nobody forces you to play your shaman as a tank.

Many classes have skills marked with the generation of an additional threat, this does not make them tanks. I laughed about the armor of the shaman king. I didn't read your message any further.

[Ryo3000]

Shamans are not tanks.

The "Looking For Turtles" default Add-On allows any player to queue up for dungeon, being able to pick any role your class is supposed to be able to do in this server.

Anyone can queue as DPS.

Shamans, Paladins, Druids and Priests can queue as Healer.

Shamans, Paladins, Druids and Warriors can queue as Tank.

Also, you sound like an asshole when your argument becomes "I'm not reading that"

Illiteracy and ignorance aren't that strong of a supporting argument

[Brandwacht]

Shamans are not tanks.

The "Looking For Turtles" default Add-On allows any player to queue up for dungeon, being able to pick any role your class is supposed to be able to do in this server.

Anyone can queue as DPS.

Shamans, Paladins, Druids and Priests can queue as Healer.

Shamans, Paladins, Druids and Warriors can queue as Tank.

Also, you sound like an asshole when your argument becomes "I'm not reading that"

Illiteracy and ignorance aren't that strong of a supporting argument

I read your message to the place with insults. I decided not to read further and not to comment on the rest of the message. People who allow insults in constructive dialogue are an empty place for me.

[Ryo3000]

I read your message to the place with insults. I decided not to read further and not to comment on the rest of the message. People who allow insults in constructive dialogue are an empty place for me.

Suit yourself, it's not like you have much to say on the topic beside being dismissive without any basis as far as anyone can tell

[Nobody]

just my 2 cents to this topic -- i really like the idea of Shamans tanks and orignially they inteded to let shamans tank up to level <60 but not from there on out.
There is an interview with a classic dev out there.

Besides that this is a modified classic server with talents which got merged like ancestral guardian - also you have like 4-5 talents which enables you to tank provide dmg midigation

There are a few mail items which got added in the custom dungeons for example like "pauldrons of elusiveness" in kara crypt or "greaves of the elusive" in caverns of time - high stam with dodge, so it seems like the devs on this server have tank shaman in mind

i myself have shaman tank gear and already tried to tank a few instances - annoying are mob groups with 4+ mobs
rockbiter atlest for me does a good job with +aggro

also some gildie told me there was a shaman tank who tanks some high tier raids - not sure if just a rumor


also spending money dosn't mean you have passion or something else, it just means you spend money on something

[Aavri]

Your argument is quite flawed. Nobody wants anything immidiately, they are just suggesting. You just choose to read it and interpret it in the most toxic way. And shaman will never be the best in "all spheres", ESPECIALLY in tanking with that mail armor. We just want it to be a bit more viable and easier without spending hundreds of gold for consumables to make it "kinda" work in the endgame.
Pray tell, how will making shamans better at tanking "ruin the game for everyone else"? Will all tank slots suddenly be taken by shamans somehow, with the other tank classes crying in a corner somewhere?

Shamans are not tanks. Your pleas are related to making tanks out of them. You gradually want to do it step by step, it's obvious.

So you can say and claim whatever you want... and be wrong.

Shamans might not be tanks on Blizzard's Classic servers, but this isn't those classic servers or retail. It's a private server. And the private server developers clearly want Shaman to be tanks by letting them queue up in group finder as tanks. Especially since a lot of the custom dungeons drop mail tanking pieces.


If Shamans are struggling to tank currently, and the developers of this server want Shamans to tank... then these suggestions by the OP sound like decent enough suggestions to make it easier without reworking or adding a lot of stuff.

[Slashignore]

hello mister "i want to play classic wow but i dont want to play classic as it was"

i also want shadow priests to tank
i also want mage tanks

[Aavri]

hello mister "i want to play classic wow but i dont want to play classic as it was"

Weak arguement. Why are you on this server? This server doesn't play like classic was.

Last I checkd Gilneas was not a zone, Genn Greyman wasn't a boss, Goblins/High elves weren't playable, Paladins didn't have Holy strike along with Crusader strike (and an ability to force proc weapon enchants), mages didn't have Kedghar's unlocking, and more.

This isn't a pure classic server. It's a classic plus server.

i also want shadow priests to tank
i also want mage tanks

Both of those go agains Turtle wow Developer design. Shamans tanking does not.