Free respec for levels 10-59. No xp loss in dung.

[Topowns]

Free respecs for adventurers 10-59 would help out with leveling and dungeoning, as well as experimenting different specs before level 60. There are some level 60 players with a ton of gold. respec cost works as a gold sink for them. It doesn't help and probably hurts levelers though, who struggle with a messed up economy.

Another suggestion would be to remove xp loss on death for hardcore players inside dungeons. Rogues and hunters have it easy but I wonder how many will be brave enough to play as tank or a no-save class inside dungeons. If the healer has a lag spike or his/her cat walks over the keyboard? xp loss. I'm sure we'd have more folks willing to do dungeons if this wasn't the case. Another idea would be to fix xp gain in dungeons and make it on par with classic or even buffed like 2x. This way we'd have more people dungeoning too.

[Roxanneflowers]

Free respecs for adventurers 10-59 would help out with leveling and dungeoning, as well as experimenting different specs before level 60. There are some level 60 players with a ton of gold. respec cost works as a gold sink for them. It doesn't help and probably hurts levelers though, who struggle with a messed up economy.

Declined.

Another suggestion would be to remove xp loss on death for hardcore players inside dungeons. Rogues and hunters have it easy but I wonder how many will be brave enough to play as tank or a no-save class inside dungeons. If the healer has a lag spike or his/her cat walks over the keyboard? xp loss.

If you don't want to risk XP loss upon death ... don't play hardcore mode.
How difficult is this relationship of Cause & Effect to comprehend?

I'm sure we'd have more folks willing to do dungeons if this wasn't the case.

People don't avoid dungeons because they might risk a 5% loss in their current level XP gain upon death.
People do dungeons for the rewards (drops, reputation, cash, quest completion, camraderie, etc.).

Another idea would be to fix xp gain in dungeons and make it on par with classic or even buffed like 2x. This way we'd have more people dungeoning too.

Dungeons rates remain x1.0 for parties only to encourage players to group up and do dungeons.

Reading comprehension FTW.

[Topowns]

Whoa, take a step back, breathe. No need to be aggressive.

I'm leveling as hardcore because I want the challenge but I also want to be able to do dungeons. Do you really think free respecs and no exp loss in dungeons would hurt more than help the levelers population? I don't think so.

I get the feeling you might be disconnected from the players, or at least the levelers. When forming a dungeon group and we find no tank for a long time (1-2 hours looking), we'd start whispering warriors, druids and pallies. Quite a few of those say: "Sorry don't do dungeons because I'm on hardcore." All I tried to bring was that side, so your aggressiveness and one word answers are useless to the discussion.

I know dungeon rates are supposed to be x1 as Torta's quote mentions. But again, maybe you should read what I wrote and try to understand it yourself: "[...] make it on par with classic or even buffed [...]". From what I understood since Classic release, pservers (including nost and elysium software, on which Turtle is very likely based) had wrong exp values for dungeons. Classic implemented the original vanilla numbers, which were higher than the pserver community thought. Hence why I wrote "[...] make it on par with classic or even buffed [...]".

[Axoc]

Whoa, take a step back, breathe. No need to be aggressive.

I'm leveling as hardcore because I want the challenge but I also want to be able to do dungeons. Do you really think free respecs and no exp loss in dungeons would hurt more than help the levelers population? I don't think so.

I get the feeling you might be disconnected from the players, or at least the levelers. When forming a dungeon group and we find no tank for a long time (1-2 hours looking), we'd start whispering warriors, druids and pallies. Quite a few of those say: "Sorry don't do dungeons because I'm on hardcore." All I tried to bring was that side, so your aggressiveness and one word answers are useless to the discussion.

I know dungeon rates are supposed to be x1 as Torta's quote mentions. But again, maybe you should read what I wrote and try to understand it yourself: "[...] make it on par with classic or even buffed [...]". From what I understood since Classic release, pservers (including nost and elysium software, on which Turtle is very likely based) had wrong exp values for dungeons. Classic implemented the original vanilla numbers, which were higher than the pserver community thought. Hence why I wrote "[...] make it on par with classic or even buffed [...]".

I personally didn't level a fresh hybrid class so I'll stay out of the leveling respec discussion. As a mage, I respecced a few times omw to 60 and had no issues (of course mage is the easiest class to make gold while leveling).
Some don't do dungeons because of hardcore, some seek out dungeons because of hardcore. There will always be a mix of opposite types of players in MMO's and catering to specific types by trivializing content is what got retail to where it is now.
Classic has multiple changes that have been proven to not be vanilla-like, so "It's in Classic, therefore it was in vanilla" is not necessarily correct. We also have pserver tuning on mobs, not Classic tuning, which seems to be appreciated by the majority of the community. I do not like the way (and especially not the degree) that Classic has trivialized leveling and tuning, even down to making hit cap easier to reach.
Edit: Grinding dungeons is THE primary issue with Classic leveling. Incentivizing players to level via grinding dungeons here is NOT the answer to any problem IMO.

[Topowns]

You are on point, people have different tastes. I also dislike the trivialization of leveling and the insane dungeon farming in Classic. I do, however, like dungeons and am leveling a hardcore character right now (level 42) and I have a lot of trouble finding dungeon groups. Took me half a day to form a RFD group yesterday, for example. Today I tried an SM group for many hours and had no luck.

So while I do hate trivial leveling of Classic, I do like dungeons in vanilla and something that'd make people more willing to run them would be much appreciated. Classic is just a sinking ship. Powerleveling, bots and easy content were its downfall. But I do miss being able to run any dungeon at any time. If a considerable fraction of our small leveling population is avoiding grouping up for them for something that can be changed without too much hassle, that'd be something to look at.

[Chiefolga]

Respecting is fine, I'm pretty sure they reduced the time reset for it, or the max is just 5 gold.
I mean... it "is" now even cheaper, there's no reason to take it away no matter the level, twinkers will be surely take full advantage of that and it's a no-no, plus it'll feel less of a vanilla experience and more of a fun-server which is something I'm not on pair to have.

Difficulty exist to increase the time we spent in the game, it also creates a sense of great gratification once you deal with it up to the end goal, but that's my personal take, I do not wish for it to be modified on it's core-idea, leveling should remain the same, experience should remain the same, drop rates, gold rates, all should be exactly as how vanilla intended, dying and losing experience in my personal hardcore moments really makes me think twice before doing something completely reckless, it makes my character "matter" more.

The quicker way to accommodate incentive only hypes up people who will quickly be bored of the game and quit after they've end the journey with nothing to do but afk in main cities, the solution works but it's short lived, and that's what poisons a server in the short-long run, plus you cannot trust people wouldn't just find a way to make magic cleaving-boosting when the experience is higher, you may be fine and trust me I would to, but saying the same for others it's very convoluted, do not trust people to play by the rules.

I think it's fine as it is, and the expansion is clearly attracting the attention of new people, it's only a matter of time once it drops to see a big, big increase in playerbase.
Only waiting it's the best solution, plus the server keeps on adding custom-vanilla friendly stuff, and that alone drives me to continue playing.

We'll see how it goes when the expansion is here.

[Mac]

For lower level dungeons, you really don't need to be specced Protection to tank or Holy to heal. To tank, you just need a sword and board (if you aren't a Druid or whatever), and you can get both from quests or holding onto drops. I've done pre-60 dungeons with Hunter pet tanks. I've done dungeons with Warriors who two handed tanked. I think people are just using their spec as an excuse because they don't want to tank or heal, which ultimately is fine because you shouldn't have to do a role you don't want to do if you're willing to accept not being able to get groups as easily as you would by being a little more flexible.

As for experience loss in dungeons, on the one hand, yeah, I get that it sucks not being able to put together a group because a hardcore player doesn't want to risk experience loss. At the same time, that's a part of the point of hardcore in the first place, that there is a risk, and if they're not willing to take the risk of doing dungeons, they don't get the rewards of getting superior loot drops that will help them level. That's their choice if they don't think the risk is worth the rewards.

[Pinacoolada]

It's a no from me

[Kazgrim]

I understand you don't like some parts of hardcore, such as losing xp in dungeons, but in my opinion it is part of the risk and therefore should remain.

I would like free respecs however.

[Unangwata]

I understand you don't like some parts of hardcore, such as losing xp in dungeons, but in my opinion it is part of the risk and therefore should remain.

I would like free respecs however.

I think you are wrong here. It's not a matter of risk you take in dungeon but a matter of that you don't take that risk. This will result in less population available for dungeons, and on low population server like this it's a bad mechanic.

I skipped dungeon myself today because I play hc and already done the quests. In other circumstances I would gladly do it.

[Axoc]

I understand you don't like some parts of hardcore, such as losing xp in dungeons, but in my opinion it is part of the risk and therefore should remain.

I would like free respecs however.

I think you are wrong here. It's not a matter of risk you take in dungeon but a matter of that you don't take that risk. This will result in less population available for dungeons, and on low population server like this it's a bad mechanic.

I skipped dungeon myself today because I play hc and already done the quests. In other circumstances I would gladly do it.

Different people like different things. I play a hardcore permadeath character and still do dungeons /shrug. I've never had an issue filling a group for sub-60 dungeons and with the new forum thread for LFG, the LFG channel on Discord, two brand new leveling guilds, and already existing leveling guilds, I'd be surprised if it's an issue right now for anybody playing in a time other than off-time (which will always be difficult to fill groups for no matter what changes are made).

[Kazgrim]

yea i dont think avoiding risks is something a hardcore mode would pander to. it is meant to punish you after all.

[Unangwata]

some people take risk, some don't. For every person that doesn't dungeon population gets smaller

[Kazgrim]

very true. its your choice to play hardcore as well. you can remove it any time you want.

[Unangwata]

very true. its your choice to play hardcore as well. you can remove it any time you want.

Yeah, but for welfare of all players you would rather want larger population available for dungeons, don't you ?
Current mechanic works against it

[Kazgrim]

the current mechanic is a choice. you can do dungeons still, with or without hardcore mode. it does not prevent you from doing dungeons. just because you choose not to do dungeons does not mean the mechanic is preventing you to do dungeons. if we wanted to maximize dungeon population, we would make features that encouraged dungeon grouping, like double xp. i dont like the idea of removing a core feature of hardcore, which is losing xp. i would rather see a slight xp boost to dungeons as an incentive for hardcore players to reward the risk

[Unangwata]

the current mechanic is a choice. you can do dungeons still, with or without hardcore mode. it does not prevent you from doing dungeons. just because you choose not to do dungeons does not mean the mechanic is preventing you to do dungeons. if we wanted to maximize dungeon population, we would make features that encouraged dungeon grouping, like double xp. i dont like the idea of removing a core feature of hardcore, which is losing xp. i would rather see a slight xp boost to dungeons as an incentive for hardcore players to reward the risk

I think we misunderstand here. I am not talking about choice. I am talking about what is good for the server. You want to encourage people to do dungeons, yet you defend mechanic that works exactly opposite.
XP penalty is good, except in dungeons.

[Roxanneflowers]

if we wanted to maximize dungeon population

We'd slam a fist down on the balance scales to make dungeons the only way to earn XP.

The perceived lack of dungeon population is a function of the overall character population on the server at any given time. A very small minority of characters online at any specific time are ready/willing/able to run any specific dungeon. When the overall population of characters is small, the quantity of dungeon runners is small within any given time window.

Dungeon groups still form.
They just might not be forming up "on demand" whenever an individual player might like. The reason why that happens is not because of hardcore mode (or at least not exclusively because of hardcore mode). Different people have different motivations and reasons for playing the game the way that they do. Adapt and survive.

[Axoc]

This boils down to retail vs vanilla mindset. Having to wait 30 minutes or having to utilize external LFG tools (discord, forums) or making friends on the server so you have a list of people you can whisper whenever you are building a group for a dungeon - these are all delayed gratification "vanilla" things.
Getting an instant "queue" with randoms at the click of a button (or at the posting of an ad in /world) is an instant gratification "retail" thing.
I personally am always going to veer HARD away from anything remotely resembling instant gratification. If I wanted to play retail I would go play retail.

[Torta]

Current respect costs is 5 gold. Lowering or removal isn't an option.

Hardcore mode w/o XP loos wouldn't be any different from normal x1 if player is using Survival bonus. It's designed to ensure that people think twice prior doing. It's optional, we are not forcing anyone to play in HM :)