Greetings, Tutle-wow.
I’m new here (actually, haven’t yet decided if I stick around – reluctant to renew my wow addiction), but a few levels in so far, it seems like a lively place (which is a feat in itself for a vanilla pve server) and those few extra custom quests / npcs freshen old vanilla up.
From what I read on forums, the staff is welcoming new ideas, so I’ve decided to throw in a few that’s been stuck in my head for a while now, playing same old content over and over.
To those who will make it through this wall of text : This is as much as I can remember at this point, will update the post with any more suggestions that I can dig out of my memory. I am hoping to hear some constructive criticism from server community and the staff.
An entire list of suggestions.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Dynamic world
This would probably the most time consuming in terms of smoothing out. The basic idea is to develop certain “quest packs” or “sets” for each questing zone (or perhaps only a few more popular ones). Perhaps it would be possible to mix the some actual vanilla quests with custom ones to make separate sets. Those quest sets would provide a certain atmosphere of events happening in the zone they are applied to. Then, those sets could be rotated on a certain time basis, same way like Darkmoon Faire and other world events are.
Let’s take, for example, Redridge Mountains zone. Straight off the hat, there could be three separate quest sets.
“Peaceful” set: Lakeshire and Stonewatch Keep are held by Stormwind forces. Orcs are holding their camp and the caverns at the north of the map. Gnolls are not present across Redridge, or only have a couple of small hidden camps at the edges of the map. The characters arriving there are receiving hunting, cooking quests, perhaps a chain to deal with murlocs and their poaching, delivering guard dinners and so on. Stonewatch Keep could have a number of custom quests, like scouting out the passage to Burning Steppes, delivering letters, maybe killing a tough monster or two. A chain about Morganth tricking a player to retrieve the Scythe of Elune from Roland’s Doom in Duskwood “for studies and safekeeping” could be a thing.
“Orc invasion” set: Orcs holding Stonewatch Keep and Render’s Valley, Lakeshire under siege. Players arriving to Lakeshire get all the default quests to deal with orc invasion. Possibly a scripted event could be added of orcs attacking Lakeshire, with local guards defending the place (have to make sure the local guards can win with no player interference). A player could get a one-time quest to help defend the town, with a followup of taking out orc command in the keep. Spying on Morganth’s tower (from the Tower of Azora in Elwynn) could fall into this set too.
“Gnoll” set: Lakeshire is held by Stormwind forces. Orcs are back to their caves at the north of the map. Stonewatch keep is retaken by Stormwind – or, perhaps, it is empty with a few gnolls skulking around. The gnolls are spread across all of the Redridge. The player gets all the default gnoll quests, including Yowler and Fangore, perhaps adding a few custom ones to clear out the Rethbarn mines. Taking out Morganth (From the Tower of Azora in Elwynn) before he can use the Scythe of Elune could also fit here.
These quest sets could be rotated on a weekly basis, for example, and provide a feeling of events constantly happening all around the player. That also allows to expand playable content manyfold without creating new zones. Players would be able to come back to old areas later to help their favourite settlements out of more trouble.
If the staff has access to talented scripters and really wants to take it even further, there could be scritped events for quest set rotations happening. For example, orcs marching from their camp at the northern edge of the map (can’t remember the location name for the life of me) onto Stonewatch Keep with a fight between them and Stormwind guards at the keep with orcs being victorious. Much like Stitches event in Duskwood. Once all the alliance npcs in the keep are dead, the quest npcs / mobs for the next quest set are spawned.
And this could be applied to multiple (all?) questing zones across Azeroth.
This would probably the most time consuming in terms of smoothing out. The basic idea is to develop certain “quest packs” or “sets” for each questing zone (or perhaps only a few more popular ones). Perhaps it would be possible to mix the some actual vanilla quests with custom ones to make separate sets. Those quest sets would provide a certain atmosphere of events happening in the zone they are applied to. Then, those sets could be rotated on a certain time basis, same way like Darkmoon Faire and other world events are.
Let’s take, for example, Redridge Mountains zone. Straight off the hat, there could be three separate quest sets.
“Peaceful” set: Lakeshire and Stonewatch Keep are held by Stormwind forces. Orcs are holding their camp and the caverns at the north of the map. Gnolls are not present across Redridge, or only have a couple of small hidden camps at the edges of the map. The characters arriving there are receiving hunting, cooking quests, perhaps a chain to deal with murlocs and their poaching, delivering guard dinners and so on. Stonewatch Keep could have a number of custom quests, like scouting out the passage to Burning Steppes, delivering letters, maybe killing a tough monster or two. A chain about Morganth tricking a player to retrieve the Scythe of Elune from Roland’s Doom in Duskwood “for studies and safekeeping” could be a thing.
“Orc invasion” set: Orcs holding Stonewatch Keep and Render’s Valley, Lakeshire under siege. Players arriving to Lakeshire get all the default quests to deal with orc invasion. Possibly a scripted event could be added of orcs attacking Lakeshire, with local guards defending the place (have to make sure the local guards can win with no player interference). A player could get a one-time quest to help defend the town, with a followup of taking out orc command in the keep. Spying on Morganth’s tower (from the Tower of Azora in Elwynn) could fall into this set too.
“Gnoll” set: Lakeshire is held by Stormwind forces. Orcs are back to their caves at the north of the map. Stonewatch keep is retaken by Stormwind – or, perhaps, it is empty with a few gnolls skulking around. The gnolls are spread across all of the Redridge. The player gets all the default gnoll quests, including Yowler and Fangore, perhaps adding a few custom ones to clear out the Rethbarn mines. Taking out Morganth (From the Tower of Azora in Elwynn) before he can use the Scythe of Elune could also fit here.
These quest sets could be rotated on a weekly basis, for example, and provide a feeling of events constantly happening all around the player. That also allows to expand playable content manyfold without creating new zones. Players would be able to come back to old areas later to help their favourite settlements out of more trouble.
If the staff has access to talented scripters and really wants to take it even further, there could be scritped events for quest set rotations happening. For example, orcs marching from their camp at the northern edge of the map (can’t remember the location name for the life of me) onto Stonewatch Keep with a fight between them and Stormwind guards at the keep with orcs being victorious. Much like Stitches event in Duskwood. Once all the alliance npcs in the keep are dead, the quest npcs / mobs for the next quest set are spawned.
And this could be applied to multiple (all?) questing zones across Azeroth.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Elves
Having high elves to play hordeside since Burning Crusade always made me uneasy, especially after so many wars between said elves and orcs and undead in the previous wars. Having high elves alliance-side and goblins horde-side always seemed a logical choice, taking lore into account. I am glad the server staff consists of like-minded people in this regard.
While we will have to wait for the expansion to see how these races blend into vanilla, there were a few ideas I had about elven lands as a playable zone.
Re-establishing contact with the Alliance
During the vanilla the elven lands have been blocked off from the rest of the world, because reasons (one could speculate it’s because the elves wanted to halt the spread of the plague into their homeland, but we all know it’s due to blizzards not including them into original game). Now, with Sunwell destroyed and Kael’Thas’ betrayal, High Elves turn to the Alliance for survival as a race. In order to do so, multiple messengers should cross undead-infested areas of Plaguelands. To keep those messengers safe, a number of ranger camouflage cloaks were distributed to them, that would shield it’s wearer from anyone’s sight, as long as he doesn’t move.
Crossing plaguelands at a level of 20, even with a camouflage cloak could be a feat for elven players. That should, of course, be tested to confirm being possible in principle.
Battle for the Silvermoon / Sunwell
It always puzzled me why Blizzard decided to move Sunwell to a separate island in Burning Crusade expansion, while earlier lore clearly stated that Sunwell was located in the center of Silvermoon City. I guess the lore was stretched again for the comfort of map designers.
As an idea for future raiding content, a battle over the area that housed the Quel’Thalassian Sunwell could be introduced. High elves try to retake their capital, while the Blood elves want the energies of the Sunwell for themselves. Meanwhile, the city is crawling with all sorts of undead (remaining since Arthas’s invasion), escaped experiments and other unsavory types.
At this point I am unsure how to fit in Horde factions in there lorewise (perhaps an expedition organisied at the behest of Sylvannas). As an alternative, it could be converted to a custom battleground inside a ruined elven capital, where both horde and alliance are trying to take over the desecrated Sunwell.
Elven paladins
This is a minor rant about the content, which, as I understand, is already included in the coming expansion. A certain screenshot I dug out somewhere on these forums hinted at the fact that high elves will have a paladin class to play. Wouldn’t it make more sense to have high elven warlocks instead of paladins? A thin elf waving a battlehammer left and right sounds a bit ridiculous, imo. At the same time warlocks would fit in well enough, given elven history of playing with supernatural powers. In any case, this is a minor matter, and not something I am eager to argue over.
Having high elves to play hordeside since Burning Crusade always made me uneasy, especially after so many wars between said elves and orcs and undead in the previous wars. Having high elves alliance-side and goblins horde-side always seemed a logical choice, taking lore into account. I am glad the server staff consists of like-minded people in this regard.
While we will have to wait for the expansion to see how these races blend into vanilla, there were a few ideas I had about elven lands as a playable zone.
Re-establishing contact with the Alliance
During the vanilla the elven lands have been blocked off from the rest of the world, because reasons (one could speculate it’s because the elves wanted to halt the spread of the plague into their homeland, but we all know it’s due to blizzards not including them into original game). Now, with Sunwell destroyed and Kael’Thas’ betrayal, High Elves turn to the Alliance for survival as a race. In order to do so, multiple messengers should cross undead-infested areas of Plaguelands. To keep those messengers safe, a number of ranger camouflage cloaks were distributed to them, that would shield it’s wearer from anyone’s sight, as long as he doesn’t move.
Crossing plaguelands at a level of 20, even with a camouflage cloak could be a feat for elven players. That should, of course, be tested to confirm being possible in principle.
Battle for the Silvermoon / Sunwell
It always puzzled me why Blizzard decided to move Sunwell to a separate island in Burning Crusade expansion, while earlier lore clearly stated that Sunwell was located in the center of Silvermoon City. I guess the lore was stretched again for the comfort of map designers.
As an idea for future raiding content, a battle over the area that housed the Quel’Thalassian Sunwell could be introduced. High elves try to retake their capital, while the Blood elves want the energies of the Sunwell for themselves. Meanwhile, the city is crawling with all sorts of undead (remaining since Arthas’s invasion), escaped experiments and other unsavory types.
At this point I am unsure how to fit in Horde factions in there lorewise (perhaps an expedition organisied at the behest of Sylvannas). As an alternative, it could be converted to a custom battleground inside a ruined elven capital, where both horde and alliance are trying to take over the desecrated Sunwell.
Elven paladins
This is a minor rant about the content, which, as I understand, is already included in the coming expansion. A certain screenshot I dug out somewhere on these forums hinted at the fact that high elves will have a paladin class to play. Wouldn’t it make more sense to have high elven warlocks instead of paladins? A thin elf waving a battlehammer left and right sounds a bit ridiculous, imo. At the same time warlocks would fit in well enough, given elven history of playing with supernatural powers. In any case, this is a minor matter, and not something I am eager to argue over.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Emerald Dream
I had some great ideas about Emerald dream zones, but seeing as it is already in the coming expansion I will not sow dissent into other player’s minds and wait to see how it turns out.
I had some great ideas about Emerald dream zones, but seeing as it is already in the coming expansion I will not sow dissent into other player’s minds and wait to see how it turns out.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Scarlet Crusade
I always felt bad for those Scarlet Crusade guys, who were hand-picked by some crappy blizzard game designers as a forsaken race scarecrow and a beating dummy. From what I could see, they are the remnants of Lordaeron forces, trying to defend their homeland against the scourge.
Why not make Scarlet Crusade an optional reputation faction, with their own quests and vendor items? Of course, that will block players from raiding Scarlet Monastery and Stratholme Live part, but there could be quest chains and rewards to balance that out. Although some big quest chains like Tirion Fordring’s will be blocked out by allying with Scarlet Crusade as well (even though a player could still gather the items and deliver the package to his son, even being an ally of Scarlet Crusade. Perhaps there could be a reputation penalty for that escort?), there could be some large chains Crusade side to balance things out, putting the player in front of a choice between, say, Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade. Or maybe it would be possible to ally with both factions, since they both seem to be fighting the scourge. You do see Scarlet Crusade commanders in the Light’s hope chapel post-scourge invasion for a reason, after all.
Now, since horde faction (especially the Forsaken) don’t quite fit into Scarlet Crusade, they could have their own faction to ally with, for example the Syndicate. Unfortunately, I don’t know enough horde quests to say wether they are on speaking terms with these guys.
I always felt bad for those Scarlet Crusade guys, who were hand-picked by some crappy blizzard game designers as a forsaken race scarecrow and a beating dummy. From what I could see, they are the remnants of Lordaeron forces, trying to defend their homeland against the scourge.
Why not make Scarlet Crusade an optional reputation faction, with their own quests and vendor items? Of course, that will block players from raiding Scarlet Monastery and Stratholme Live part, but there could be quest chains and rewards to balance that out. Although some big quest chains like Tirion Fordring’s will be blocked out by allying with Scarlet Crusade as well (even though a player could still gather the items and deliver the package to his son, even being an ally of Scarlet Crusade. Perhaps there could be a reputation penalty for that escort?), there could be some large chains Crusade side to balance things out, putting the player in front of a choice between, say, Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade. Or maybe it would be possible to ally with both factions, since they both seem to be fighting the scourge. You do see Scarlet Crusade commanders in the Light’s hope chapel post-scourge invasion for a reason, after all.
Now, since horde faction (especially the Forsaken) don’t quite fit into Scarlet Crusade, they could have their own faction to ally with, for example the Syndicate. Unfortunately, I don’t know enough horde quests to say wether they are on speaking terms with these guys.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Class+Racial spells
It is a common knowledge that priests of different races get some unique spells for their race – presumably based on religion they attribute to. It might be worth it to introduce similar unique skills to other classes, making choice of a race more important and sophisticated. Unfortunately, I don’t have any exact examples for this section. Community suggestions are welcome.
It is a common knowledge that priests of different races get some unique spells for their race – presumably based on religion they attribute to. It might be worth it to introduce similar unique skills to other classes, making choice of a race more important and sophisticated. Unfortunately, I don’t have any exact examples for this section. Community suggestions are welcome.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Hunter Overhaul
Now, from what I know about how game works, this would be virtually impossible to do without overhauling the core. Nontheless, I will share this idea as a concept to speculate about.
What if hunters used energy instead of mana? That would make more sense, logically, while using mana turns them into some sort of druid/arcane mage hybrid spellcaster with a gun (or bow). Using energy seems a logical choice here.
To balance the use of energy out, all hunter special attacks could be applied “on next attack”, just like warrior’s heroic strike or cleave. That would mean they have to reload their ranged weapon instead of shooting it like a machine gun which makes less sense than using mana. In that regard, all hunter DPS would revolve around weapon speed vs damage it deals. Overhauling ranged weapons, bows could be turned into fastest ranged weapons with least damage, guns would be the slowest and biggest damage and crossbows occupying the middle ground.
Hunter talents could be overhauled into trees according to the weapon of choice. “Bows” tree for boosting critical chance of bow attacks, for example, “guns” tree to decrease the “reload” time of guns and crossbows ( a good choice for 5-point talent of the first / second row) and the third tree could be a mix of melee and usage of traps.
Special attacks would depend on the choice of a weapon – or maybe ammunition type it shoots. You cannot fire sting attacks from a gun (shot) as well as shot attacks from a bow (arrow). Crossbows could be utilized for usage of either ammunition making it a good middle ground, but one would still have to manually replace ammo on the character screen.
Melee hunters could maybe get a “leaping attack” from their talent tree – sort of similar to charge and opposite of “disengage” that got added in official expansions (wotlk?).
Now, from what I know about how game works, this would be virtually impossible to do without overhauling the core. Nontheless, I will share this idea as a concept to speculate about.
What if hunters used energy instead of mana? That would make more sense, logically, while using mana turns them into some sort of druid/arcane mage hybrid spellcaster with a gun (or bow). Using energy seems a logical choice here.
To balance the use of energy out, all hunter special attacks could be applied “on next attack”, just like warrior’s heroic strike or cleave. That would mean they have to reload their ranged weapon instead of shooting it like a machine gun which makes less sense than using mana. In that regard, all hunter DPS would revolve around weapon speed vs damage it deals. Overhauling ranged weapons, bows could be turned into fastest ranged weapons with least damage, guns would be the slowest and biggest damage and crossbows occupying the middle ground.
Hunter talents could be overhauled into trees according to the weapon of choice. “Bows” tree for boosting critical chance of bow attacks, for example, “guns” tree to decrease the “reload” time of guns and crossbows ( a good choice for 5-point talent of the first / second row) and the third tree could be a mix of melee and usage of traps.
Special attacks would depend on the choice of a weapon – or maybe ammunition type it shoots. You cannot fire sting attacks from a gun (shot) as well as shot attacks from a bow (arrow). Crossbows could be utilized for usage of either ammunition making it a good middle ground, but one would still have to manually replace ammo on the character screen.
Melee hunters could maybe get a “leaping attack” from their talent tree – sort of similar to charge and opposite of “disengage” that got added in official expansions (wotlk?).
Last edited by Steyr on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Spell Damage and Resistance Overhaul
This is a big one and controversial and probably just as impossible without rewriting the entire game code as hunter overhaul. Still sharing it here as a speculation topic (who knows? – maybe someone manages this).
Spell damage vs Spell resistance have always been tricky in WoW. Even if you stack tonns of resistance to certain school of magic, you might still get a full amount of damage, although the chance of that is less and less possible as resistance is getting higher. The custom concept here is to simplify spelldamage vs resistance system, while adding more effects to spelldamage itself.
Turn resistance system into %-based value. %-number is the % of spell damage that is completely negated from spell attack (pretty much like armor is working). At the same time, stacking over 100% of resistance would have the reverse effect of the spell, for example at 101% of resistance, the target of the spell is instead HEALED for 1% of attack’s damage. Stacking 200% of resistance (if you can get that much at all) will heal the player for full spell damage instead of hurting him.
The best part of this is that this resistance system also applies to npcs and monsters. Blasting a fire elemental with a fireball, you shouldn’t expect it to get hurt. If anything, it should grow in power instead. At the same time, reverse should be true as well. A fire elemental should be particularly vulnerable to frost school and should take double damage from frost spells and attacks. Same might be applied to players – for example, fire resistance past 100% (or some other threshold) would reduce his resistance to frost by the same amount. That way, blasting a priest in shadowform with a shadowbolt would not only be harmless to the priest, but heal him instead. While hitting him with holy shock would deal double damage of an attack instead.
This would change the entire magic system in the game and possibly unbalance it, so any further discussion is encouraged.
This is a big one and controversial and probably just as impossible without rewriting the entire game code as hunter overhaul. Still sharing it here as a speculation topic (who knows? – maybe someone manages this).
Spell damage vs Spell resistance have always been tricky in WoW. Even if you stack tonns of resistance to certain school of magic, you might still get a full amount of damage, although the chance of that is less and less possible as resistance is getting higher. The custom concept here is to simplify spelldamage vs resistance system, while adding more effects to spelldamage itself.
Turn resistance system into %-based value. %-number is the % of spell damage that is completely negated from spell attack (pretty much like armor is working). At the same time, stacking over 100% of resistance would have the reverse effect of the spell, for example at 101% of resistance, the target of the spell is instead HEALED for 1% of attack’s damage. Stacking 200% of resistance (if you can get that much at all) will heal the player for full spell damage instead of hurting him.
The best part of this is that this resistance system also applies to npcs and monsters. Blasting a fire elemental with a fireball, you shouldn’t expect it to get hurt. If anything, it should grow in power instead. At the same time, reverse should be true as well. A fire elemental should be particularly vulnerable to frost school and should take double damage from frost spells and attacks. Same might be applied to players – for example, fire resistance past 100% (or some other threshold) would reduce his resistance to frost by the same amount. That way, blasting a priest in shadowform with a shadowbolt would not only be harmless to the priest, but heal him instead. While hitting him with holy shock would deal double damage of an attack instead.
This would change the entire magic system in the game and possibly unbalance it, so any further discussion is encouraged.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
BIG wall of text ahead. Here are my thoughts on every single one of these suggestions.
Dynamic world: The difference between Vanilla old world and the Cataclysm revamp is that Vanilla used to have a feeling of serenity and permanence to it. Such war scenarios would make it too similar to the Cataclysm world what with all the chaos and fighting that frankly does not make sense in the long term and oftentimes seems artificial. I don't think Vanilla has any permanent war zone between npcs kind of place, but go to cataclysm and it's everywhere, there are constantly spawning gnolls attacking sentinel hill, constantly spawning dragonkin fighting in wetlands etc. Not saying that the idea is bad, just saying that it makes it too much like Cataclysm.
About crossing Plaguelands even if elves were in Quel'thalas, portals exist. High Elves are all about magic, I'm sure they can open some gateway through.
If there was a battle for the Sunwell I would consider High Elves trying to retake their capital to be alliance high elf propaganda. The Sunwell belongs to the High Elves that did not want to leave their homeland and became Blood Elves. That's like saying Lordaeron belongs to the Stormwind human kingdom, it doesn't, it belongs to the Forsaken because they were Lordaeronian humans that died and were resurrected by the scourge. The Blood Elves want the sunwell's energy because they have the right to it, besides I don't think this dungeon/raid would make sense as crossfaction. Horde would not agree to participating in such thing.
Scarlet Crusade
"I once served the Scarlet Crusade with honor, loyalty and pride. I believed their cause to be a noble one: to rid Azeroth of the undead.
But as I spent time at the Monastery in Tirisfal Glades I realized that their grasp on reality was slipping. They now think everyone is plagued who doesn't wear the tabard of the Crusade. Innocent men and women were tortured because they were supposedly plagued.
The Scarlet Crusade must be crushed in the name of the Light. You, <name>, must destroy the deranged regime."
Shadow priests in WoW are not inherently resistance to shadow. If they were that would be yet another balancing nightmare. Oneshot by a smite priest, unkillable by a warlock.
Dynamic world: The difference between Vanilla old world and the Cataclysm revamp is that Vanilla used to have a feeling of serenity and permanence to it. Such war scenarios would make it too similar to the Cataclysm world what with all the chaos and fighting that frankly does not make sense in the long term and oftentimes seems artificial. I don't think Vanilla has any permanent war zone between npcs kind of place, but go to cataclysm and it's everywhere, there are constantly spawning gnolls attacking sentinel hill, constantly spawning dragonkin fighting in wetlands etc. Not saying that the idea is bad, just saying that it makes it too much like Cataclysm.
I disagree with this. Horde is not the ugly faction, it's the underdog/outcast/banished faction. And you are confusing between high elves and blood elves, they are the same species but not the same people politically. Blood elves tried to join the alliance and were refused because humans are xenophobic and racist (See Othmar Garithos)Elves
Having high elves to play hordeside since Burning Crusade always made me uneasy, especially after so many wars between said elves and orcs and undead in the previous wars. Having high elves alliance-side and goblins horde-side always seemed a logical choice, taking lore into account. I am glad the server staff consists of like-minded people in this regard.
While we will have to wait for the expansion to see how these races blend into vanilla, there were a few ideas I had about elven lands as a playable zone.
The area of Quel'thalas is not controlled by High Elves, it is controlled by Blood Elves. High Elf settlements are few and far between but they are most definitely not in Silvermoon and the surrounding area because the survivors of the Lich King's invasion mostly became blood elves and as mentioned before, the alliance does not like blood elves. Those that didn't become blood elves and stayed as high elves left the place.Re-establishing contact with the Alliance
During the vanilla the elven lands have been blocked off from the rest of the world, because reasons (one could speculate it’s because the elves wanted to halt the spread of the plague into their homeland, but we all know it’s due to blizzards not including them into original game). Now, with Sunwell destroyed and Kael’Thas’ betrayal, High Elves turn to the Alliance for survival as a race. In order to do so, multiple messengers should cross undead-infested areas of Plaguelands. To keep those messengers safe, a number of ranger camouflage cloaks were distributed to them, that would shield it’s wearer from anyone’s sight, as long as he doesn’t move.
Crossing plaguelands at a level of 20, even with a camouflage cloak could be a feat for elven players. That should, of course, be tested to confirm being possible in principle.
About crossing Plaguelands even if elves were in Quel'thalas, portals exist. High Elves are all about magic, I'm sure they can open some gateway through.
We could consider the island north of Quel'thalas to be part of Silvermoon as well. They are close to each other and were most likely linked by boat during the capital city's heyday. It's like the statue of liberty being considered a part of New York City even though it's on an island.Battle for the Silvermoon / Sunwell
It always puzzled me why Blizzard decided to move Sunwell to a separate island in Burning Crusade expansion, while earlier lore clearly stated that Sunwell was located in the center of Silvermoon City. I guess the lore was stretched again for the comfort of map designers.
As an idea for future raiding content, a battle over the area that housed the Quel’Thalassian Sunwell could be introduced. High elves try to retake their capital, while the Blood elves want the energies of the Sunwell for themselves. Meanwhile, the city is crawling with all sorts of undead (remaining since Arthas’s invasion), escaped experiments and other unsavory types.
At this point I am unsure how to fit in Horde factions in there lorewise (perhaps an expedition organisied at the behest of Sylvannas). As an alternative, it could be converted to a custom battleground inside a ruined elven capital, where both horde and alliance are trying to take over the desecrated Sunwell.
If there was a battle for the Sunwell I would consider High Elves trying to retake their capital to be alliance high elf propaganda. The Sunwell belongs to the High Elves that did not want to leave their homeland and became Blood Elves. That's like saying Lordaeron belongs to the Stormwind human kingdom, it doesn't, it belongs to the Forsaken because they were Lordaeronian humans that died and were resurrected by the scourge. The Blood Elves want the sunwell's energy because they have the right to it, besides I don't think this dungeon/raid would make sense as crossfaction. Horde would not agree to participating in such thing.
It would make ZERO sense for high elf warlocks. High Elf warlocks use the fel, which makes them Blood Elves and not High Elves anymore so they can't join the alliance. About paladins, female humans can be paladins, and as we all know high/blood elves are as masculine as a female human so they should be able to be paladins. On a more serious note, they are just agile, if they can be Spellbreakers and use long glaives and huge shields then they can be paladins too.Elven paladins
This is a minor rant about the content, which, as I understand, is already included in the coming expansion. A certain screenshot I dug out somewhere on these forums hinted at the fact that high elves will have a paladin class to play. Wouldn’t it make more sense to have high elven warlocks instead of paladins? A thin elf waving a battlehammer left and right sounds a bit ridiculous, imo. At the same time warlocks would fit in well enough, given elven history of playing with supernatural powers. In any case, this is a minor matter, and not something I am eager to argue over.
Scarlet Crusade
Not since after the 3rd war they're not. They are what remains of the Silver Hand and are basically crazy now. Spoiler alert: it's controlled by a dreadlord.I always felt bad for those Scarlet Crusade guys, who were hand-picked by some crappy blizzard game designers as a forsaken race scarecrow and a beating dummy. From what I could see, they are the remnants of Lordaeron forces, trying to defend their homeland against the scourge.
I personally think even the ring that allows you to become friendly with the Scarlet Crusade is a stretch. Making them a faction you can get reputation with does not make sense in the lore. The scarlet crusade emissaries all around the world either have no idea that the crusade has turned fanatic, or are just diplomats. Just look at the text of the quest In The Name Of The Light. They are not a faction that the alliance would ally itself with.Why not make Scarlet Crusade an optional reputation faction, with their own quests and vendor items? Of course, that will block players from raiding Scarlet Monastery and Stratholme Live part, but there could be quest chains and rewards to balance that out. Although some big quest chains like Tirion Fordring’s will be blocked out by allying with Scarlet Crusade as well (even though a player could still gather the items and deliver the package to his son, even being an ally of Scarlet Crusade. Perhaps there could be a reputation penalty for that escort?), there could be some large chains Crusade side to balance things out, putting the player in front of a choice between, say, Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade. Or maybe it would be possible to ally with both factions, since they both seem to be fighting the scourge. You do see Scarlet Crusade commanders in the Light’s hope chapel post-scourge invasion for a reason, after all.
"I once served the Scarlet Crusade with honor, loyalty and pride. I believed their cause to be a noble one: to rid Azeroth of the undead.
But as I spent time at the Monastery in Tirisfal Glades I realized that their grasp on reality was slipping. They now think everyone is plagued who doesn't wear the tabard of the Crusade. Innocent men and women were tortured because they were supposedly plagued.
The Scarlet Crusade must be crushed in the name of the Light. You, <name>, must destroy the deranged regime."
To reply to this, I will assume that the Scarlet Crusade already fits into the Alliance, just to find a proper horde equivalent. The Syndicate is not. First of all, they are humans of a fallen kingdom in Alterac Valley, they hate the horde. Secondly, they are basically bandits, can't make a common enemy pact with a group of bandits.Now, since horde faction (especially the Forsaken) don’t quite fit into Scarlet Crusade, they could have their own faction to ally with, for example the Syndicate. Unfortunately, I don’t know enough horde quests to say wether they are on speaking terms with these guys.
Blizzard only ever did faction-specific class skills in 2 instances. Vanilla priests, and tbc paladins. And that's for one reason: different religion. And that's because priests and paladins are archetypes that change in theme depending on what religion the priest or paladin practices. Blood Elf paladins have specific racial skills that are different from alliance because they don't use the holy light in the same way that alliance paladins do. And priests, well there's a kind of priest for every religion in Azeroth. There are holy light priests (Dwarf/human), priestesses of elune (Night elf), Voodoo priests (Troll), and the cult of the forgotten shadows (Forsaken). Blizzard makes the distinction between the various religions that a priest can belong to with some very thematic racial skills. A warrior is a warrior no matter if they're a tauren or a gnome. But a priest can be many different kinds depending on their religion which usually follows their race.Class+Racial spells
It is a common knowledge that priests of different races get some unique spells for their race – presumably based on religion they attribute to. It might be worth it to introduce similar unique skills to other classes, making choice of a race more important and sophisticated. Unfortunately, I don’t have any exact examples for this section. Community suggestions are welcome.
The logical choice would be focus. Blizzard tried focus in wow's beta and it didn't work out so they swapped to mana. While it's true that this server is all about restoring scrapped things from wow's beta, I think making hunters use focus would be too much hassle and a balancing nightmare. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't speculate and brainstorm though.Hunter Overhaul
Now, from what I know about how game works, this would be virtually impossible to do without overhauling the core. Nontheless, I will share this idea as a concept to speculate about.
What if hunters used energy instead of mana? That would make more sense, logically, while using mana turns them into some sort of druid/arcane mage hybrid spellcaster with a gun (or bow). Using energy seems a logical choice here.
I personally thing "on next attack" abilities are boring and clunky but that's just an opinion. And I think the distinction between those 3 ranged weapon times should just be style and what the player likes the most.To balance the use of energy out, all hunter special attacks could be applied “on next attack”, just like warrior’s heroic strike or cleave. That would mean they have to reload their ranged weapon instead of shooting it like a machine gun which makes less sense than using mana. In that regard, all hunter DPS would revolve around weapon speed vs damage it deals. Overhauling ranged weapons, bows could be turned into fastest ranged weapons with least damage, guns would be the slowest and biggest damage and crossbows occupying the middle ground.
That would be like making warriors have a tree for maces, one for swords and one for axes. They already have such specialized weapon talents, all in the arms tree. If hunters would get specialized weapon talents it makes sense to put them in the marksman tree and not an entire tree just for a weapon type. Also you entirely forgot beastmaster. What do the hunters that like a strong cuddly pet go for. Also, you previously said that guns and crossbow's niche is that they are slower than bows, but then there is a tree that makes them reload faster? Wouldn't that just remove the difference previously mentioned?Hunter talents could be overhauled into trees according to the weapon of choice. “Bows” tree for boosting critical chance of bow attacks, for example, “guns” tree to decrease the “reload” time of guns and crossbows ( a good choice for 5-point talent of the first / second row) and the third tree could be a mix of melee and usage of traps.
You can if we assume that hunters use magic which they do in vanilla wow, hence them using mana and having things like arcane shot. They can magic-up a poisoned bullet if they wanted I'm sure. Also crossbows in real life use bolts that are close to arrows. A crossbow shooting bullets would just be a gun... or I guess an automated bullet slingshot.Special attacks would depend on the choice of a weapon – or maybe ammunition type it shoots. You cannot fire sting attacks from a gun (shot) as well as shot attacks from a bow (arrow). Crossbows could be utilized for usage of either ammunition making it a good middle ground, but one would still have to manually replace ammo on the character screen.
Melee for hunters in vanilla is basically an afterthought. The only thing that makes sense to use as a hunter is wing clip, and that's just because it slows the enemy so you can leave melee range. The most commonly used melee ability, is an ability that helps you leave melee range. A leaping attack would never get use.Melee hunters could maybe get a “leaping attack” from their talent tree – sort of similar to charge and opposite of “disengage” that got added in official expansions (wotlk?).
You get full damage if you are unlucky, it's rng based but averages out in the long term. I guess it could be there to make it less frustrating to fight someone with a specialized resistance set as a caster.Spell Damage and Resistance Overhaul
This is a big one and controversial and probably just as impossible without rewriting the entire game code as hunter overhaul. Still sharing it here as a speculation topic (who knows? – maybe someone manages this).
Spell damage vs Spell resistance have always been tricky in WoW. Even if you stack tonns of resistance to certain school of magic, you might still get a full amount of damage, although the chance of that is less and less possible as resistance is getting higher. The custom concept here is to simplify spelldamage vs resistance system, while adding more effects to spelldamage itself.
So like armor, but without diminishing returns. Sorry, it's totally broken. Getting more than 100% resistance and healing from it does not make sense. You become more resistant to the magic school and you go from it tickling you, to not affecting you at all, and then into it positively healing you? I personally don't think it makes sense. Also if it behaved like this, resistance would get stronger exponentially the more resistance you got. So not just without diminishing returns, it's with compounding returns. That's insane.Turn resistance system into %-based value. %-number is the % of spell damage that is completely negated from spell attack (pretty much like armor is working). At the same time, stacking over 100% of resistance would have the reverse effect of the spell, for example at 101% of resistance, the target of the spell is instead HEALED for 1% of attack’s damage. Stacking 200% of resistance (if you can get that much at all) will heal the player for full spell damage instead of hurting him.
Actually, the way the game is coded. Fire elementals don't have fire resistance, they have fire immunity and apparently it's different (I found out about this from the npc maker tool). A fire elemental healing from a fireball, while it makes some sense logically cause the fire makes him grow, it would let people troll others by healing the mob they are fighting. Taking double damage from frost on the other hand, it doesn't make sense unless there is a full pokemon-like type chart. Otherwise what happens, fire elementals take double damage from frost, and frost elementals take double damage from fire? How does that make sense, fire is vulnerable to frost yet frost is vulnerable to fire at the same time?The best part of this is that this resistance system also applies to npcs and monsters. Blasting a fire elemental with a fireball, you shouldn’t expect it to get hurt. If anything, it should grow in power instead. At the same time, reverse should be true as well. A fire elemental should be particularly vulnerable to frost school and should take double damage from frost spells and attacks. Same might be applied to players – for example, fire resistance past 100% (or some other threshold) would reduce his resistance to frost by the same amount. That way, blasting a priest in shadowform with a shadowbolt would not only be harmless to the priest, but heal him instead. While hitting him with holy shock would deal double damage of an attack instead.
Shadow priests in WoW are not inherently resistance to shadow. If they were that would be yet another balancing nightmare. Oneshot by a smite priest, unkillable by a warlock.
It's fun and interesting, but does not belong in an mmo like WoW, not every rpg mechanic can be ported over everywhere, some things fit in DnD for example and don't fit elsewhere.This would change the entire magic system in the game and possibly unbalance it, so any further discussion is encouraged.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
RE: Dynamic world
I think it's a really cool idea, and I would definitely love to try a server like that. That said, it's a really big ask. I mean, they'd basically have to revamp entire zones, writing brand new quests and creating brand new mobs, and then having to do the testing to make sure they all work properly. It's quite a bit of work. It'd also make the game basically completely unfamiliar, which some people are opposed to. That said, I'd love to see it on a server and give it a try.
RE: Elves
I'd wait to see what they're going to do there with Quel'thalas and the Sunwell and so on.
RE: Elf paladins
I think paladins fit high elves well. Quel'dorei means "children of noble birth," and nobility is one of the themes of the paladin class. I also don't think elves are as physically weak as you think. In Warcraft III, high elves (technically blood elves) had a unit called the Spell Breaker that went into battle with an absolutely massive shield. Also, consider the following: gnome warriors. And given that they've been allied with humans forever like the dwarves, it makes sense there'd be high elf paladins just like there's dwarf paladins.
RE: Emerald Dream
Definitely looking forward to what they do with it.
RE: Scarlet Crusade
In game, there's a custom quest where humans (and humans only) can get a ring that makes them friendly with the Scarlet Crusade. There's also a Scarlet Crusade guild. I think the Scarlet Crusade guild is pushing for some Scarlet Crusade quests.
RE: Class+Racial spells
I suppose it would depend on the spells. I would say the one thing about race-specific spells is that they tend to cause strife among players. I mean it kind of sucks wanting to play a night elf priest for the lore but you "can't" because it's way more "optimal" to play a dwarf priest for that juicy fear ward. I can only imagine it'd be even more frustrating to find out a choice you made ages ago now means you can't get a spell you want, all because that spell didn't even exist when you created your character. But again, depends on the spell.
RE: Hunter Overhaul
I think focus or even energy actually fits the class better than mana does, and the original concept of focus regenerating only when they stand still is interesting to say the least. Again, though, that's a really big ask. They'd not only have to change spells and talents, but also gear considering a good chunk of hunter gear has Int on it, which is suddenly useless when you don't have mana, which then affects shaman because they do share some pieces with hunters.
As for an entire tree based on either bows or guns, I don't know about that. Maybe a single talent like how Warriors and Rogues have Sword Specialization and Mace Specialization and so on.
As for melee hunters, I'd definitely like to see them become more of a viable option. I don't think a leap would help. Their issue isn't that they can't close the distance and get in melee range, but rather that when they're in melee, they aren't that great. Giving them some melee abilities that give them utility and let them play a bit more of a support role as a melee class would be interesting. Maybe bring back Lacerate, but have the debuff increase how much physical damage the mob takes or something. Just spitballing.
RE: Spell Damage and Resistance Overhaul
I think spell damage and resistance works fine. Fire elementals are usually highly resistant, if not flat out immune, to fire damage. There is also such a thing as "fighting fire with fire."
Overall, I think you have some neat ideas and I'm glad you shared them.
I think it's a really cool idea, and I would definitely love to try a server like that. That said, it's a really big ask. I mean, they'd basically have to revamp entire zones, writing brand new quests and creating brand new mobs, and then having to do the testing to make sure they all work properly. It's quite a bit of work. It'd also make the game basically completely unfamiliar, which some people are opposed to. That said, I'd love to see it on a server and give it a try.
RE: Elves
I'd wait to see what they're going to do there with Quel'thalas and the Sunwell and so on.
RE: Elf paladins
I think paladins fit high elves well. Quel'dorei means "children of noble birth," and nobility is one of the themes of the paladin class. I also don't think elves are as physically weak as you think. In Warcraft III, high elves (technically blood elves) had a unit called the Spell Breaker that went into battle with an absolutely massive shield. Also, consider the following: gnome warriors. And given that they've been allied with humans forever like the dwarves, it makes sense there'd be high elf paladins just like there's dwarf paladins.
RE: Emerald Dream
Definitely looking forward to what they do with it.
RE: Scarlet Crusade
In game, there's a custom quest where humans (and humans only) can get a ring that makes them friendly with the Scarlet Crusade. There's also a Scarlet Crusade guild. I think the Scarlet Crusade guild is pushing for some Scarlet Crusade quests.
RE: Class+Racial spells
I suppose it would depend on the spells. I would say the one thing about race-specific spells is that they tend to cause strife among players. I mean it kind of sucks wanting to play a night elf priest for the lore but you "can't" because it's way more "optimal" to play a dwarf priest for that juicy fear ward. I can only imagine it'd be even more frustrating to find out a choice you made ages ago now means you can't get a spell you want, all because that spell didn't even exist when you created your character. But again, depends on the spell.
RE: Hunter Overhaul
I think focus or even energy actually fits the class better than mana does, and the original concept of focus regenerating only when they stand still is interesting to say the least. Again, though, that's a really big ask. They'd not only have to change spells and talents, but also gear considering a good chunk of hunter gear has Int on it, which is suddenly useless when you don't have mana, which then affects shaman because they do share some pieces with hunters.
As for an entire tree based on either bows or guns, I don't know about that. Maybe a single talent like how Warriors and Rogues have Sword Specialization and Mace Specialization and so on.
As for melee hunters, I'd definitely like to see them become more of a viable option. I don't think a leap would help. Their issue isn't that they can't close the distance and get in melee range, but rather that when they're in melee, they aren't that great. Giving them some melee abilities that give them utility and let them play a bit more of a support role as a melee class would be interesting. Maybe bring back Lacerate, but have the debuff increase how much physical damage the mob takes or something. Just spitballing.
RE: Spell Damage and Resistance Overhaul
I think spell damage and resistance works fine. Fire elementals are usually highly resistant, if not flat out immune, to fire damage. There is also such a thing as "fighting fire with fire."
Overall, I think you have some neat ideas and I'm glad you shared them.
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Roxanneflowers
- Posts: 211
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Not to encourage a wholesale digression here, but I've played melee Hunter on both Darrowshire (Elysium) and Symmetry and HOO BOY does it actually work out in actual gameplay WAY DIFFERENTLY than a lot of people assume (and therefore believe) when starting from the "standard" way to play a (ranged) Hunter! I mean, it's just layers upon layers upon layers upon layers of differences from how a Beastmaster or a Marksman build will tend to play. It's just SO DIFFERENT! And I'll be honest here, it is a LOT of fun to play too!Mac wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:42 amAs for melee hunters, I'd definitely like to see them become more of a viable option. I don't think a leap would help. Their issue isn't that they can't close the distance and get in melee range, but rather that when they're in melee, they aren't that great. Giving them some melee abilities that give them utility and let them play a bit more of a support role as a melee class would be interesting.
But in order to "get there from here" on how Hunters are "supposed to be played" you need to practically turn the class upside down, inside out and "wrong way 'round" before everything starts falling into place using an almost entirely different paradigm for how the Hunter class ought to be played when playing as a melee Hunter.
At some point here, when I've had enough time to review and update the posts I saved from the forums of other servers, I'll repost my build and guide for how to play as a melee Hunter here in these forums ... but I sincerely doubt that people will believe me when I say that melee Hunter is an incredibly fun and rewarding build to play, but there are some synergies between Hunter and Pet that will substantially dictate which type of Pet you want to choose to be playing with, which then in turn says a lot about the kind of (melee) Hunter you want to be a play. There's also a ton of macro scripting that needs to be done in order to make the experience bearable (which I've tested out on previous servers) and ... well, I think anyone reading this ought to be getting the point that there's a lot more to playing a melee Hunter than just pretending you're a Rogue with a Pet (because you're not a Rogue with a Pet, you're a Hunter with a Pet).
Needless to say, the Hunter alt that I've started here on Turtle WoW will ultimately wind up getting leveled as a Beast o' Melee Hunter build that I'll be posting, which is something that I was actually able to level into the low 40s on Darrowshire (Elysium) before that server fell to corruption.
Interestingly enough, I actually wound up doing Gnomeregan with my melee Hunter in a group with a Marksman Hunter and the other Hunter had a damage meter that they could run (so they did, starting once we entered the instance) so as to cross-check the performance of our two respective builds during a dive through Gnomeregan all the way to the final boss (who we defeated, naturally). There was, of course, as always, the good natured ribbing at the start about how I shouldn't feel bad that the party would have to "carry" my melee Hunter through the dungeon because I was playing a melee Hunter (which everyone "knew" was worthless, yaddee yaddah ... you know the drill). However, after we downed the sub-bosses in each area, the Marksman would check his damage meters and was having a hard time believing what he was seeing ... because the two of us were really kind of neck and neck on damage production, except that my melee Hunter was slightly ahead of his Marksman overall (probably because I was Off Tanking for the group and disposing of adds). I was also getting to use my Traps for damage output, while the Marksman was limited to using his only for Freezing Trap (in case of loose mobs). At the end, the damage out two Hunters had produced during the run really comparable (although mine was a smidgeon higher) and the Marksman had seen the radically different way that I was fighting enough (I call it Tandem Tanking) to be interested enough to ask questions about my build. They weren't going to change out of being Marksman spec, but they'd seen enough to know from firsthand experience of watching me play that I was making the melee spec WORK and that it could do some things that his Marksman spec couldn't (which, to be fair, is only to be expected).
End game raiding is a completely different environment, with completely different environmental/survival pressures placed on builds and specs, so the "rules" of how to build (and why) are quite different there from the leveling/dungeon experience. However, I can say without equivocation that it IS possible to play a melee Hunter AND make it work at a comparable level to other specs while leveling prior to PvE raiding. It is though a VERY different way to play ... starting with what I call the 4h weapon style that I prefer to use for combat as a melee Hunter using the macros I developed to coordinate and control things with.
So that post is coming ... at some point (I just need the time to edit and post it) ... but I'm probably going to need to post my Warlock and decidedly off-meta Rogue builds first before turning to the extremely off-meta melee Hunter build that I've discovered/developed prior to coming to Turtle WoW. Because, from my experience of having played the spec, melee Hunters are JUST FINE as is(!) and are not hurting for special spells/abilities beyond what they already have available to them in order to function.
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
I'd be interested to read those guides. I thought the one you wrote about a Starshards focused priest was interesting, especially in conjunction with the mana from spirit while casting guide.Roxanneflowers wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:21 amSo that post is coming ... at some point (I just need the time to edit and post it) ... but I'm probably going to need to post my Warlock and decidedly off-meta Rogue builds first before turning to the extremely off-meta melee Hunter build that I've discovered/developed prior to coming to Turtle WoW. Because, from my experience of having played the spec, melee Hunters are JUST FINE as is(!) and are not hurting for special spells/abilities beyond what they already have available to them in order to function.
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Roxanneflowers
- Posts: 211
Re: An entire list of suggestions.
Thanks.
The way I've always looked at these kinds of things is from a perspective of Knowledge Shared Is Knowledge Multiplied (or words to that effect). It's all about finding islands of stability withing the unexplored seas of chaos that lie beyond the well worn path that everyone already knows about.
Anyway, enough digression about my heresies in this thread.
