Lets talk about summoning stones!

[Hauntingsforum]

This is quickly devolving into unproductive flaming.

I am intuitively against summoning stones for a number of reasons (none of them set in stone). There are real concerns that would need to be addressed.

But I also get the problem with travel times, feeling paralyzed because you want to stay available and close-by, party members not caring and queuing from the other end of the world (absolutely "love" the first thing to read from a party member being "where is the instance?" meaning they don't even have the flight point), etc.
Given our developers can do homebrew solutions and don't need to just copy retail features - how about we come up with a clever solution that tries to make both parties at least a little happier?

My proposal: Clicking on the meeting stone at a dungeon creates a consumable item that despawns after 12 hours. Consuming the item (requires to be out of combat and a 30s channel) will teleport you to the meeting stone. So now you can prepare ahead of time and then go off to wherever you want to quest or farm. You still have to manually go to the instance at one point. It still hinges on individual responsibility. But it takes the pressure of waiting close-by out and it only benefits the rest of the group due to not having to wait.

I like the idea of an alternative to stones tbh i didnt thinkg about it cause i dont see stones as a "beginning of retailisation" of the game. But somehow hearing about stones do hurt some people in a way i did not expect. I like the idea of binding u to the stone via HS or sth else so u can prepare still have to work to do but when the tank finally is in the group u can take part in the dungeon from start to finish. Also the first response that aknowledge the downside of not having the stones. Before that i only heared yeah but its classic. Ty for the input

[Hauntingsforum]

Personally, I do not like the idea of turning the stones into summoning ones. Even when it requires 4 players to perform the summoning ritual, certain people will make sure to be the lazy 5th player.

An interesting alternative could be to allow players in dungeon level range to bind their hearthstone to a meeting stone. Max level characters would be excluded from this feature.

I like it! :)

[Hauntingsforum]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to argue with someone who wishes to stick their fingers in their ears and ignore the nuance of the situation and dismiss logic out of hand because it doesn't align with their argument. You have conceded your part in this debate.

Likewise, I have neither the time nor the inclination to retrace half a decade or more of discussions spanning the internet regarding the casualization of the game, slippery slopes that always inevitably come to pass, or the server's core philosophy and desires of both the founding members of this community and the large population of those drawn by the core philosophy of this server.

If you, too, wish to dismiss out of hand the argument because you expect me to spoon-feed you what can easily be researched long before you make a suggestion post on these forums, and you take umbrage to my tone because I find it exhausting seeing the same unpopular and doomed suggestions made without a single iota of evidence that you bothered to read the forums let alone the suggestions forum before obliviously pulling up a New Thread form singing "Golly! Have I got a great idea to discuss!"... That's a you problem.

The staff will never implement this feature, and you can put money on that. If you want someone to retread a discussion that's already been had dozens of times, find someone else. If dungeons stress you out, don't run dungeons. Don't ask the Staff to implement an un-vanilla, un-Turtle feature because of stress you've created for yourself. It's a video game. It's not meant to be stressful. That's entirely on you, and I'd suggest you consider a different game if you find it's causing you stress rather than relieving it.

If the forum bothers u so much feel free to not join the discussion. Its optional if u didnt know about that and not required for beeing part of the community at all. ;)

[Reploidrocsa]

No.
Part of doing a dungeon is willing to spend time to get there. Ofc you can start clearing the trash if the group agrees, avoid those groups who don't say a word and don't wait for no one, they're not worth it.
And if i were me i would remove lock summon and mage portals (they can keep teleport)

Yeah i avoid that group and just wait 2 more hours for a tank. Thats just not realistic to do sorry but the waiting time and the demand on tank players is really high so there is no cherry picking of groups.

so if you dont want to wait 2 hours for a tank, what can you do to get a tank fast?

[Boras]

Yeah no. This would just end up being like Retail where most of the group will just continue questing "because someone else is going to do it"

"You could just kick or talk with the person that is not moving" You can but if there is one thing I've learnt about Turtle recently then it's that no one talks, ever. If you say something then chances are extremely high that they won't respond at all. If you kick them then you will just have to play the waiting game even more. This is one of those situations where you can't win.

I'd rather they keep it how it is right now with everyone being responsible for their own travel instead of pushing it off on two people.

Its less about the travel its about beeing stressed while doing so. I dont know when u last queued for a dungeon but the current situation is they just start and if u have the longest way often the amount of dungeon that is left does not justify the journey to it. Which for me lead to leaving half way. I just want the full experience when i wait 2hours for it. Ofc as a tank and a healer u wont have this problem. But as a dps its acutally really frustrating. Lets be real here we all dont want this to be retail. But beeing forced to rush somewhere caue people start without u feels more retail then anything else. Time pressure on a slow and steady server just makes no sense. So why dont have a feature to get the last man or the last two on board so the group can have the full experience together.

Deal with it. Set your hearth nearby if it’s such a problem for you. I’ve never had issues. It’s a you problem.

[Karrados]

No.
Part of doing a dungeon is willing to spend time to get there. Ofc you can start clearing the trash if the group agrees, avoid those groups who don't say a word and don't wait for no one, they're not worth it.
And if i were me i would remove lock summon and mage portals (they can keep teleport)

Yeah i avoid that group and just wait 2 more hours for a tank. Thats just not realistic to do sorry but the waiting time and the demand on tank players is really high so there is no cherry picking of groups.

so if you dont want to wait 2 hours for a tank, what can you do to get a tank fast?

Play a Tank. Everyone wants to be a DPS including Tank-able classes. Just the day before I have seen 15 DPS in the LFT with 0 Heals and 0 Tanks for Deadmines. Or Zul'Farrak with 12 DPS, 1 Heal, 0 Tanks. In both cases there were Paladins and Warriors included in that list.

If you really want to stay DPS then there is nothing that you can do aside from making friends with a Tank and/or Healer or going away from a role that is oversaturated as it is.

[Reploidrocsa]

Play a Tank. Everyone wants to be a DPS including Tank-able classes. Just the day before I have seen 15 DPS in the LFT with 0 Heals and 0 Tanks for Deadmines. Or Zul'Farrak with 12 DPS, 1 Heal, 0 Tanks. In both cases there were Paladins and Warriors included in that list.

If you really want to stay DPS then there is nothing that you can do aside from making friends with a Tank and/or Healer or going away from a role that is oversaturated as it is.

It's a good solution indeed

[Sinrek]

Yeah but there are dungeons all over the world the argument to quest near the dungeon is not always possible and the dungeon should not dictate where i quest at all imo.

Akchuelly that's exactly what adventuring for your character is. You endure hardships, travel to places unknown, explore hidden places and discover the riches, possibly everything listed and somewhere outside the dungeon first, later on inside one.

So, the less conveniences there are the more authentic your journey will be. Hence you don't need to be zipped in. You travel there, perhaps even ahead of everyone else. Prepared, of course. That's part of what you should be good at for social (this is MMORPG after all) game.

I absolutely agree but that requires 5 man with the same mindset to be true. And dungeons designed with quest for both sides which often is only in a small degree to be found. RFK, SM just two prominent examples of dungeons that are one faction based. Again people wont even wait dm entry when ur flying to westfall from sw. The rush mentality is already here and it hurts the experience when u get the feeling of i have to be fast to get there. That is where my journey becomes a race.

If you're feeling rushed, then you should let your team know and either find yourself another team or make one. If you do not want to rush, then do as you like. Regardless of your party's desires, you're the one who's playing your character.

Sounds like it's more of a mindset issue, than a game mechanic lack of design or world interaction.

[Shroudedsoul]

No.
Part of doing a dungeon is willing to spend time to get there. Ofc you can start clearing the trash if the group agrees, avoid those groups who don't say a word and don't wait for no one, they're not worth it.
And if i were me i would remove lock summon and mage portals (they can keep teleport)

Warlocks are laughing right now.

[Holyhorrorr]

My 5 cent to this. In the restart of Classic WoW it was exactly like it is here.
Meeting stones were not useable for summons and all players you grouped with moved their butt on their own to the dungeon and it might have taken 10min longer but that was fine.

Then after some month Blizzard changed their opinion and made the "Metting stones" into "Summoning stones".
And what started happening?!
People started benig lazy asses and kept asking for summons or not even cared to start moving.

I personally also like how it is cause i not want lazy people in my group that not even take their time to move themself but expect others to use their precious time to summon their butts.

[Akalix]

As we do not endorse trapping Warlock players in large rocks, the team doesn't plan to add Summoning Stones.

Turtle is about enjoying the journey and exploring the world. As much convenience as this would add, it would discourage players traveling the open world to venture to dungeons.

[Redmagejoe]

As we do not endorse trapping Warlock players in large rocks, the team doesn't plan to add Summoning Stones.

Turtle is about enjoying the journey and exploring the world. As much convenience as this would add, it would discourage players traveling the open world to venture to dungeons.

Warlocks are laughing right now.

I am laughing right now.

[Ingameacc12345]

I'd just like to say that I love Turtle WoW team's general stance on stuff like this.

It looks like 99% of people making suggestions do not think of long term repercussions and effects of said suggestions. This is one of such cases. Another one (albeit a bit less pronounced) is increasing quest log size - people don't seem to realise that such a seemingly simple change as increasing log size by 5 or 10 quests would affect the game flow.

Please keep being adamant about proposed changes, thank you.

[Ishilu]

As we do not endorse trapping Warlock players in large rocks, the team doesn't plan to add Summoning Stones.

Turtle is about enjoying the journey and exploring the world. As much convenience as this would add, it would discourage players traveling the open world to venture to dungeons.

Thanks

[Bigsmerf]

As we do not endorse trapping Warlock players in large rocks, the team doesn't plan to add Summoning Stones.

Turtle is about enjoying the journey and exploring the world. As much convenience as this would add, it would discourage players traveling the open world to venture to dungeons.

GMs bein' based as hell as per usual. Love to see it.

[Whalemilk]

I love when people come to turtlewow and ask for convenience. That’s literally why people play classic or vanilla… because retail made everything convenient

[Redmagejoe]

Shroudedsoul and Hauntingsforum been real quiet since GM.txt dropped.

[Allwynd01]

Yeah but ur defending the feature with the argumentation to get there and just play sth else in the meantime? Is that how a game should work be so time and effort intensive that u have to bridge the time with sth else? Idk i wanna play Twow not Gta 5.

Again with the "yeah, but..." ... are you doing this on purpose or you just don't know any better? Can't write words properly because if you write "something" or "I don't know" it will take too much time and you "gotta go fast"?

Do you realize you have a problem?

1. This is a game from 2004, it has played this way and people like playing it like it was in 2004. All the additions made by the Turtle WoW team only expand the game horizontally, they aren't trying to turn it into a dumbed-down mobile game that plays itself. The majority of people like it like it is and don't want it to change, you are in the very tiny minority.

2. You come across as someone with a very short attention span or ADHD or something where you can't even type properly to save time and you want thing to happen fast, because you can't be bothered to wait.

I saw your other posts - each one is a discussion about asking for new features. This is a trend for you - demanding things to be changed for you rather than asking "What can I do to adjust myself better to factors A, B, C?". This is your personality - you see no fault in yourself, only in everyone and everything around you. News Flash: The fault is within you in this particular case.

All of these things point out that you can't adjust to a game from 2004 and instead of adjusting it, you're trying to justify through mental gymnastics how the game should be adjusted to fit you instead. Maybe you should not try to play games from 2004 and play games from 2024 instead (or ones from the past 3 years until 2024 games start coming out).

If you want to play Turtle WoW, you will play it like it is and adjust to it, if you can't adjust or you don't want to, then you don't have to play it and you don't have maintain the notion that the game should be changed for you. If you can't be bothered to learn where the dungeons are and go there, then play an MMORPG from after 2010, something like Retail WoW or ESO or SWTOR where when you queue for a dungeon, it teleports you there.

This is how Turtle WoW is, take it or leave it. Maybe the game is just not for you. If you can't adjust to a game, don't play it. I really want to play 4X games, but I tried multiple times and realized I can't adjust to the games and instead of complaining everywhere on the internet and demanding the whole genre to be changed for me, I realized I can't play those games and went to play different genres of games.

I'd just like to say that I love Turtle WoW team's general stance on stuff like this.

It looks like 99% of people making suggestions do not think of long term repercussions and effects of said suggestions. This is one of such cases. Another one (albeit a bit less pronounced) is increasing quest log size - people don't seem to realise that such a seemingly simple change as increasing log size by 5 or 10 quests would affect the game flow.

Please keep being adamant about proposed changes, thank you.

Those who demand for features are just the usual "beautiful and unique snowflakes" who think if they ask nicely enough everything they ask for will be added in the game. There was a guy who was really motivated about how Nagas can be added as a playable race. Despite being told that it's technically unfeasible for the simple reason that Nagas don't have legs and half the armor looks like shit on them, this guy was persistent on how with concentrating really hard and with positive thinking he will materialize playable Nagas in Turtle WoW.

[Zulnam]

+1

I like a lot of the hard aspects of vanilla. Waiting for little Timmy to get his ass to RFD from Arathi Highlands is not one of them.

[Bigsmerf]

Yeah but ur defending the feature with the argumentation to get there and just play sth else in the meantime? Is that how a game should work be so time and effort intensive that u have to bridge the time with sth else? Idk i wanna play Twow not Gta 5.

Again with the "yeah, but..." ... are you doing this on purpose or you just don't know any better? Can't write words properly because if you write "something" or "I don't know" it will take too much time and you "gotta go fast"?

Do you realize you have a problem?

1. This is a game from 2004, it has played this way and people like playing it like it was in 2004. All the additions made by the Turtle WoW team only expand the game horizontally, they aren't trying to turn it into a dumbed-down mobile game that plays itself. The majority of people like it like it is and don't want it to change, you are in the very tiny minority.

2. You come across as someone with a very short attention span or ADHD or something where you can't even type properly to save time and you want thing to happen fast, because you can't be bothered to wait.

I saw your other posts - each one is a discussion about asking for new features. This is a trend for you - demanding things to be changed for you rather than asking "What can I do to adjust myself better to factors A, B, C?". This is your personality - you see no fault in yourself, only in everyone and everything around you. News Flash: The fault is within you in this particular case.

All of these things point out that you can't adjust to a game from 2004 and instead of adjusting it, you're trying to justify through mental gymnastics how the game should be adjusted to fit you instead. Maybe you should not try to play games from 2004 and play games from 2024 instead (or ones from the past 3 years until 2024 games start coming out).

If you want to play Turtle WoW, you will play it like it is and adjust to it, if you can't adjust or you don't want to, then you don't have to play it and you don't have maintain the notion that the game should be changed for you. If you can't be bothered to learn where the dungeons are and go there, then play an MMORPG from after 2010, something like Retail WoW or ESO or SWTOR where when you queue for a dungeon, it teleports you there.

This is how Turtle WoW is, take it or leave it. Maybe the game is just not for you. If you can't adjust to a game, don't play it. I really want to play 4X games, but I tried multiple times and realized I can't adjust to the games and instead of complaining everywhere on the internet and demanding the whole genre to be changed for me, I realized I can't play those games and went to play different genres of games.

I'd just like to say that I love Turtle WoW team's general stance on stuff like this.

It looks like 99% of people making suggestions do not think of long term repercussions and effects of said suggestions. This is one of such cases. Another one (albeit a bit less pronounced) is increasing quest log size - people don't seem to realise that such a seemingly simple change as increasing log size by 5 or 10 quests would affect the game flow.

Please keep being adamant about proposed changes, thank you.

Those who demand for features are just the usual "beautiful and unique snowflakes" who think if they ask nicely enough everything they ask for will be added in the game. There was a guy who was really motivated about how Nagas can be added as a playable race. Despite being told that it's technically unfeasible for the simple reason that Nagas don't have legs and half the armor looks like shit on them, this guy was persistent on how with concentrating really hard and with positive thinking he will materialize playable Nagas in Turtle WoW.

Unspeakably based

[Elesion]

1. This is a game from 2004, it has played this way and people like playing it like it was in 2004. All the additions made by the Turtle WoW team only expand the game horizontally, they aren't trying to turn it into a dumbed-down mobile game that plays itself.

Have you looked at TWoW? How can you say that with a straight face? Yes, the developers draw a line and most of the community agrees with it (largely including myself). But that line is not even close to the 2004 Vanilla experience. There are numerous substantial changes we could be talking about (cross-faction, raid scaling, class changes, custom items being universally more powerful than vanilla ones, infinite free repair bots, bank and mail access anywhere, mounts at lvl 10/18, etc, etc), but let's pick the biggest one to go deeper: Respecs.

One of the defining elements of the Vanilla experience was mostly being stuck with your talent build. If you wanted to change it a few times you were soon looking at 50g respec costs (meaning 100g if you wanted to switch between raid and farm spec). Talent points were valuable. Builds mattered. If you wanted to avoid a huge gold drain you were forced to hybridize between raid spec and farm spec, to agonize over trade-offs.
Not only does Turtle cap the cost at 5g (one tenth of Vanilla!), it also provides a way to switch specs for free and *anywhere* at *any time*. You can respec between bosses, you can be in raid spec, farm spec and pvp spec three times each on the same day at no additional cost. You will always have the ideal spec for every situation. How in all hell is that the Vanilla experience from 2004??? TWoW does not "only expand the game horizontally", it is very much not *just* "Vanilla with more content". TWoW has its own balance, it's own set of features far away from what Vanilla used to be, and most people are fine with that as well.

I happen to agree with the stance against Summoning Stones. But for new players looking at the list of massive convenience changes TWoW fields, it is not at all clear why Summoning Stones should not be talked about as well.

[Allwynd01]

1. This is a game from 2004, it has played this way and people like playing it like it was in 2004. All the additions made by the Turtle WoW team only expand the game horizontally, they aren't trying to turn it into a dumbed-down mobile game that plays itself.

Have you looked at TWoW? How can you say that with a straight face? Yes, the developers draw a line and most of the community agrees with it (largely including myself). But that line is not even close to the 2004 Vanilla experience. There are numerous substantial changes we could be talking about (cross-faction, raid scaling, class changes, custom items being universally more powerful than vanilla ones, infinite free repair bots, bank and mail access anywhere, mounts at lvl 10/18, etc, etc), but let's pick the biggest one to go deeper: Respecs.

One of the defining elements of the Vanilla experience was mostly being stuck with your talent build. If you wanted to change it a few times you were soon looking at 50g respec costs (meaning 100g if you wanted to switch between raid and farm spec). Talent points were valuable. Builds mattered. If you wanted to avoid a huge gold drain you were forced to hybridize between raid spec and farm spec, to agonize over trade-offs.
Not only does Turtle cap the cost at 5g (one tenth of Vanilla!), it also provides a way to switch specs for free and *anywhere* at *any time*. You can respec between bosses, you can be in raid spec, farm spec and pvp spec three times each on the same day at no additional cost. You will always have the ideal spec for every situation. How in all hell is that the Vanilla experience from 2004??? TWoW does not "only expand the game horizontally", it is very much not *just* "Vanilla with more content". TWoW has its own balance, it's own set of features far away from what Vanilla used to be, and most people are fine with that as well.

I happen to agree with the stance against Summoning Stones. But for new players looking at the list of massive convenience changes TWoW fields, it is not at all clear why Summoning Stones should not be talked about as well.

Turtle WoW is as much 2004 WoW as Vanilla WoW. If you played Vanilla WoW for many years, it doesn't really matter if you play Turtle WoW or Vanilla, because it will still be easy enough for you. Vanilla was hard between 2004 and 2007 when nobody knew what was going on and everyone sucked at basic tasks. Back then I didn't know how to train after level 5 so I had a bunch of level 13-14 characters trained up to level 5 that were struggling with level 12-13 content and I quit the game for a few months because I thought it was too difficult, it did not cross my mind that I was just dumb and ignorant.

Now everyone plays Vanilla efficiently. The same rules that applied for Vanilla in 2004 still apply today for Turtle WoW, it's just that we learned the game and how to be most practical and efficient at it. To my 15 year old self back then the task for reaching level 60 was impossible, I had a hard time even imagining it, now it means nothing to me.

The reason most people are fine with Turtle WoW as it is is because whatever changes they are aren't bad or ruining the old school experience and why it's one of the currently biggest Vanilla servers. Other servers come and go when all content gets exhausted.

It's not like they made the game easier, some things are just more convenient because it probably makes more sense to have them like this. Class changes are still pretty insignificant unless you're trying too hard to make a mountain out a molehill, which is what you're doing with this whole statement about Turtle WoW not playing like 2004 - you're trying too hard to find reasons to explain to me how Turtle WoW is so vastly different. I play WoW since 2006 and Turtle WoW feels the same to me, just the game is not stuck in limbo and gets more content and whatever changes there are, only make things better, not easier.

[Elesion]

Turtle WoW is as much 2004 WoW as Vanilla WoW. If you played Vanilla WoW for many years, it doesn't really matter if you play Turtle WoW or Vanilla, because it will still be easy enough for you. Vanilla was hard between 2004 and 2007 when nobody knew what was going on and everyone sucked at basic tasks.

I completely agree. But we're not talking about difficulty. Summoning stones wouldn't make the game easier (travel time is not difficulty). We're talking about the feel of the game and whether convenience/QoL features change it compared to Vanilla.

The reason most people are fine with Turtle WoW as it is is because whatever changes they are aren't bad or ruining the old school experience and why it's one of the currently biggest Vanilla servers. Other servers come and go when all content gets exhausted.

It's not like they made the game easier, some things are just more convenient because it probably makes more sense to have them like this. Class changes are still pretty insignificant unless you're trying too hard to make a mountain out a molehill, which is what you're doing with this whole statement about Turtle WoW not playing like 2004 - you're trying too hard to find reasons to explain to me how Turtle WoW is so vastly different. I play WoW since 2006 and Turtle WoW feels the same to me, just the game is not stuck in limbo and gets more content and whatever changes there are, only make things better, not easier.

But the changes are significant. They're not always good and they often make things easier, not necessarily better. You're making such a mountain of a molehill - it's obvious that TWoW plays differently. You are trying too hard to explain to me how TWoW is the same as Vanilla when it feels completely different to me as someone who started playing two months after release and stopped with TBC.

Turns out - this line of arguing is not very productive, is it? It's completely fine to say "I wouldn't like this change, it kills the feel of the game for me". I happen to agree. On the other hand it's not very convincing to say, "This is objectively bad. And you have a problem if you can't see it. How dare you even suggest something like this. Everyone can see how TWoW plays exactly like WoW in 2004 and there were no Summoning Stones back then." Maybe it does feel/play the same in your mind/memory, but not in everyone's. And the line TWoW draws how far it is willing to push changes is wholly arbitrary - you just happen to be on the right side of it.

TWow is its own thing and does its own thing with its own set of design principles and goals. It is supported by the spirit of Vanilla WoW, but not chained to it. The real question should be whether Summoning Stones fit TWoW, not whether they fit Vanilla.

[Redmagejoe]

Except it's not a question. Because the Staff already answered. Why you people continue to beat this horse corpse is beyond me.

[Drubarrymooer]

Lol, this is still going on?!?!? Didn't the devs answer? Has the OP responded in awhile? Just poppin in cause this is the longest I've seen a "pls add summoning stone" thread go on. :-p

[Ishilu]

If you want to play Turtle WoW, you will play it like it is and adjust to it, if you can't adjust or you don't want to, then you don't have to play it and you don't have maintain the notion that the game should be changed for you. If you can't be bothered to learn where the dungeons are and go there, then play an MMORPG from after 2010, something like Retail WoW or ESO or SWTOR where when you queue for a dungeon, it teleports you there.

This is how Turtle WoW is, take it or leave it. Maybe the game is just not for you. If you can't adjust to a game, don't play it. I really want to play 4X games, but I tried multiple times and realized I can't adjust to the games and instead of complaining everywhere on the internet and demanding the whole genre to be changed for me, I realized I can't play those games and went to play different genres of games.

100% agree with this. Can we move this into a sticky post in suggestions?

[Vaporizer7]

100% agree with you, it should be implemented. It saves time on trips we made so many times.
A tag system like flypath would be great, we'd make the trip at least once, to unlock the stone.

[Allwynd01]

Turtle WoW is as much 2004 WoW as Vanilla WoW. If you played Vanilla WoW for many years, it doesn't really matter if you play Turtle WoW or Vanilla, because it will still be easy enough for you. Vanilla was hard between 2004 and 2007 when nobody knew what was going on and everyone sucked at basic tasks.

I completely agree. But we're not talking about difficulty. Summoning stones wouldn't make the game easier (travel time is not difficulty). We're talking about the feel of the game and whether convenience/QoL features change it compared to Vanilla.

The reason most people are fine with Turtle WoW as it is is because whatever changes they are aren't bad or ruining the old school experience and why it's one of the currently biggest Vanilla servers. Other servers come and go when all content gets exhausted.

It's not like they made the game easier, some things are just more convenient because it probably makes more sense to have them like this. Class changes are still pretty insignificant unless you're trying too hard to make a mountain out a molehill, which is what you're doing with this whole statement about Turtle WoW not playing like 2004 - you're trying too hard to find reasons to explain to me how Turtle WoW is so vastly different. I play WoW since 2006 and Turtle WoW feels the same to me, just the game is not stuck in limbo and gets more content and whatever changes there are, only make things better, not easier.

But the changes are significant. They're not always good and they often make things easier, not necessarily better. You're making such a mountain of a molehill - it's obvious that TWoW plays differently. You are trying too hard to explain to me how TWoW is the same as Vanilla when it feels completely different to me as someone who started playing two months after release and stopped with TBC.

Turns out - this line of arguing is not very productive, is it? It's completely fine to say "I wouldn't like this change, it kills the feel of the game for me". I happen to agree. On the other hand it's not very convincing to say, "This is objectively bad. And you have a problem if you can't see it. How dare you even suggest something like this. Everyone can see how TWoW plays exactly like WoW in 2004 and there were no Summoning Stones back then." Maybe it does feel/play the same in your mind/memory, but not in everyone's. And the line TWoW draws how far it is willing to push changes is wholly arbitrary - you just happen to be on the right side of it.

TWow is its own thing and does its own thing with its own set of design principles and goals. It is supported by the spirit of Vanilla WoW, but not chained to it. The real question should be whether Summoning Stones fit TWoW, not whether they fit Vanilla.

I think the things you describe as different between Turtle and Vanilla are like you say QoL, but also punishments too. Vanilla was punishing in unfun ways, in ways that did not give you the feeling of "OK, I'm going to try harder and succeed next time", it's the kind of punishments you learn to live with, because there is no way around them. I think some people, and I don't mean you in particular, confuse some of these harsh punishments as some sort of features that defined the game. I don't like future versions of WoW after Vanilla, but I can't turn a blind eye to the fact that some changes that were made in future versions were good, 99% were bad in my opinion, but there was 1% of good decisions in there. Imagine if some of Retail's QoL changes are ported back to Vanilla, changes such as:

- improved draw distance and improved landscape so the draw distance doesn't reveal unfinished content
- improved water, like the one that Classic has
- improved shadows, like Classic
- improved vegetation and interaction with PCs walking over it and causing it to move even more
- more modern hardware support
- everything that is now quest text to be voice acted
- the changes that Turtle already made about respecializing and such
- the Turtle changes to classes to make more builds viable and interesting

Especially the class changes, because, why have 3 different talent trees when only one is viable? There can even be learned something from LOTRO that also has 3 trait (talent) trees, which are Blue, Red and Yellow for every class - Blue is Tank, Red is DPS, Yellow is Utility/Support, you can specialize every class into one of these things, granted, it won't make a glass cannon into a tank, but it will change your play style drastically. I had a Blue Guardian there, which was the tankiest Tank that could ever tank - nothing could kill me, I could play half asleep and wouldn't die, the tradeoff was that my DPS was so low that even fighting regular mobs was so slow and painful I could fall asleep, so I decided to respecialize in Red and become a DPS Guardian and swap my Sword & Shield with a 2H Sword - the change was night and day. My abilities became 30% different, my rotation became completely different, my DPS was probably 3 times higher, but suddenly I became much, much, much easier to kill, it put me on my toes, I had to change my playstyle completely and it added adrenaline into my leveling.

This is something that even Turtle WoW doesn't have even with the class changes. Which is why I don't even consider the class changes to be of any significance. I wanted to play a Survival Hunter that is melee-only and doesn't even have a ranged weapon and I realized that it's a complete joke, not viable at all and as boring as trying to do the same before the class changes. I leveled up a Retribution Paladin to 60 and even with the class changes to Paladin, my rotation did not feel any different from what I remember in pure Vanilla. The new abilities added are pretty useless. Right now I'm leveling a Warlock and it also doesn't feel different from what I remember. Overall, the class changes as re minuscule and insignificant. Every class on Turtle WoW feels the same to as it does in pure Vanilla. I'm not saying this to discredit the work of the team, but to say that there need to be EVEN MORE AND MORE class changes to the point where Arcane Mage becomes more viable than Frost Mage, pure Melee Hunter becomes more viable than Marksmanship Hunter, Elemental Shaman becomes on par with Mage in terms of DPS and Balance Druid also becomes on par with Mage in terms of DPS, now I'm overexaggerating, but what I mean to say is that there aren't enough class changes and there is room for even more.

The reason I play Turtle WoW over pure Vanilla and why I will never go back to pure Vanilla is because of all the changes, I like them so much that it has become unthinkable for me to play pure Vanilla ever again. Without Turtle WoW I can't imagine enjoying WoW ever again and without Turtle WoW, I will quit WoW forever.

[Ishilu]

100% agree with you, it should be implemented. It saves time on trips we made so many times.
A tag system like flypath would be great, we'd make the trip at least once, to unlock the stone.

Hm... a middle ground. That's productive. Maybe bosses could drop a key that needs to be in your inventory if you want to be summoned? However, I wouldn't like this solution for leveling dungeons. Maybe LBRS and upwards.

Summoning stones for raids are another story, these might be a good idea. After all, having a warlock or 2 in a 20+ man raid leads to a similar experience for all who get invited late and just forces our poor 'locks to farm and carry tons of soulshards.

EDIT: probably hard to implement and probably a bad idea, but imagine summons being available ONLY for tanks and healers .

[Hauntingsforum]

As we do not endorse trapping Warlock players in large rocks, the team doesn't plan to add Summoning Stones.

Turtle is about enjoying the journey and exploring the world. As much convenience as this would add, it would discourage players traveling the open world to venture to dungeons.

I have to respect ur stance on this since ur team is running the project. I would not call it travel i would call it sitting afk on a fp path camping afk in front of a dungeon while watching youtube or autowalk the straight paths while beeing toxic in some internet chat. I like the idea of journey but for that u need an eviroment that is chill enough to not make it a rush. The fact is if im doing dungeon i travel less then i when i quest. U try to stay near or camp the entrance yeah u walked there once but otherwise u would continue ur questing or exploring the lands cause u know when the group pops up either u or someone of the team will get there and get the other people on board.

Im not here cause i want retail features all over the place. We all here cause we love the spirit of classic. Walking for no reason can be part of it but its not mandatory to feel like classic. Improvements were made all over the game changes too and summoning stones are somewhat the bastion of classic feeling argumentation with no real good argument for it. Well i dont know how much u enjoyed it to walk there for the third time with time pressure i do not.

The question is does it add to the game in a fun way, is it good? And the answer is no atleast for me.

Also a bit sad that arguments dont get read or discussed its just a chain of emotional reactions without any substance. Only a few read more then the topic or just refuse to understand the argument.

Makes continuing posting a bit pointless so i check out here!

[Hauntingsforum]

Shroudedsoul and Hauntingsforum been real quiet since GM.txt dropped.

I have other things to do then stalking the forum. Also im not scared by authority like ur post implies. I would suggest reflecting on ur post and how much they contributed to this topic and maybe u can improve personally. Dont bother to answer this i will leave the discussion so u can continue ur journey on other topics and insult other people which opinions u dont like or understand.

[Edouchan]

i think were good on avoiding lazy retail mind set people. you cant buy gold here so they wouldnt want to come in the first place

[Drubarrymooer]

i think were good on avoiding lazy retail mind set people. you cant buy gold here so they wouldnt want to come in the first place

That's not the case. We're finding bots and boosters all the time. I'm 100% certain people are making it through the cracks. I've caught and reported several myself. Turtle is in the name. The slower the gameplay, the more classic chads still stay away. Rather than going afk during a flight, try talking to people. Browse the discord or forums. Give helpful advice and ask questions. Most turtlers are here for the experience of vanilla, which includes the social, slow meandering pace of the game.

[Lasershadow]

I can just see people abusing this hard just for the DMF Turtle Mount quest.

Yeah... though I like the idea of Summon Stones being useful again I have to say I wish it could be so.

Maybe some alternative that's only available inside the dungeon? Maybe only works after killing the 1st boss.

[Reploidrocsa]

Can we lock the thread? Devs already said it won't happen