Lets talk about summoning stones!

[Hauntingsforum]

Lately i noticed i get very stressed out doing dungeons especially with the cross faction feature. Often i queue up a dungeon and find myself with two options:

A: camp the dungeons as dps for hours to be there in time
B: continuing my journey till the group is full or the inv pops up

Sadly the one is very boring and time consuming. I stand in the Barrens or Tirifal Glades with no near quest for my faction and if im unlucky my whole gaming session was waiting for a group that never came to live.

The other option is i continue my journey (sometimes u have to when HS is on CD and ur a bit far away from fp). In this scenario i found myself often stressed out. When im the furthest away i often get stressed by players or outright replaced. The third scenario is i arrive and half the dungeon is cleared. Often u have half the route done for nothing at all.

So my question is why are these stones not active to summon players?

In a Alliance group we all have the same fp´s and therefore similar routes or times we arrive. But if i queue with horde they can get some instances in a quarter of the time it takes me to get there. And same for the other faction. That results in an absolute stressfull enviroment and does not really go well with the slow and steady theme. I can be patient and wait for players but i cant decide that for other players. They wanna start have limited time and i understand it.

What does the summoning stone in its current state add to the player experience?

I would say nothing. Yeah u see players walking around in the open world but they are in such a hurry they dont have the time to interact with anything if they want to see the whole dungeon or be part of the group.

I love doing dungeons not for the loot not for gold for the sake of doing it. Alot of people dont have that mindset and visit the dungeon only if needed. Im getting more and more frutrated and i consider not queuing any dungeons at all. Im here to enjoy myself not to rush to a place im sadly the furthest away. So why not make it possible to summon with 3 players at the summoning stone? What is the benefit in waiting for the last two players with sometimes very very long ways to the instance? Isnt it enough when 3 players roam around the world do we need 2 stressed out players more to have the feeling of a living world for the cost of potential group members?

I think not. I would suggest rethinking the stance on that feature. Im not a retail fan of porting in the dungeon with no interaction at all but im also not a fan of walking half an hour for a half cleared dungeon or beeing stressed in the time i have in my day to relax.

Pls let me know what u think about it. Im relly curious to know what is the benefit of not having the stones at all? Also i have to mention i have not met one player on my journey that liked the fact this feature is not active.

As always have a good one!

[Sinergy]

Nononono. Don't wanna see my party chat filling with "summon plx" crap. It would just make ppl lazy.

[Ishilu]

Nononono. Don't wanna see my party chat filling with "summon plx" crap. It would just make ppl lazy.

This. This feature would make the game too attractive for lazy players with a retail-mindset.

Please note that during the leveling phase, it's quite possible to quest relatively near to relevant dungeons for most of the the time. For example, if you plan to go to BFD, you should be questing in Ashenvale and not in Hillsbrad.

[Hauntingsforum]

Yeah but there are dungeons all over the world the argument to quest near the dungeon is not always possible and the dungeon should not dictate where i quest at all imo. I quest where it fits my character or the lore i want to know more about maybe its just the theme of the zone. I dont think it would make people lazy and if im more willing to port a lazy player then arriving at a half cleared dungeon. The current state is just to stressfull and time consuming for no reason. There is no benefit in letting 5 players walk to the entrance. The time where people where patient and waited for each other is not the time we live in now. So for me it feels more retail to have to rush to a place cause everybody want to do it FAST and NOW and getting replaced cause i cant make it in time due to having cooldown on HS or a bad flight path.

Best example Alliance questing in Stone Tallong Mountains and queuing up for RFK. I need alone 10minutes to get there by flight path. So even if my HS is ready i need alot of time where other people can arrive in 5 minutes or less. So now i have cooldown on HS 10min maybe more and my way to the next flight path is around ten minutes or more. Thats over 20 minutes it takes me to get there. Thats 15minutes people start clearing the dungeon without me. Thats not a good feeling. Also queuing up for SM als Alliance the group fills up and ur already on the way. Then the tank leaves for now reason and u spend over half an hour for nothing. Thats just unecessary. Thats not good gameplay at all. Its just burning the time i have.

I dont know in its current state my interest in dungeons is going down alot. I dont know if this artificial obstacle is worth it. Im cool with getting there im also cool with waiting for others but im not cool with beeing stressed cause other people have not patience or time. Thats a factor i cant control but i have to suffer from in my experience. I just think the negatives are way more prominent then the positives here.

[Hauntingsforum]

Nononono. Don't wanna see my party chat filling with "summon plx" crap. It would just make ppl lazy.

I think people are more time driven then lazy. People would go there and summon others instead of waiting. Ofc there will be a player here and there that is waiting for the summ but overall people value time and want to be fast.

Would love to have a community poll on this. Cause i really think most players would appreciate the activation of the stones. Wow is a time consuming game and thats ok we signed up for it but we exchange time for entertainment and doing the dungeon walk is not entertaining its just afking on a fp and auto running through a zone with a unecessary hurry that does not fit the chilled theme of the server.

[Elisleris]

So for me it feels more retail to have to rush to a place cause everybody want to do it FAST and NOW and getting replaced cause i cant make it in time due to having cooldown on HS or a bad flight path.

This breaks the core philosophy of Turtle WOW: slow and steady.

[Hauntingsforum]

Yeah but i can only decide to go slow and steady for myself not for others. And the group is dictating the pace not the player. So if they dont wanna take it slow and steady and wait for me then there is nothing i can do about it. I have to rush to get there. Thats exactly what im talking about not having the stones makes me rush and hurry so its the opposite of what this server tries to archieve. I think the slow and steady is an argument for the stones not against them. I hate the feeling of time pressure and everytime i queue a dungeon i have to switch from ah so nice i have all the time in the world to omfg it takes so long i wont get there in time! Thats the complete opposite of my questing experience.

All i do is voting for a stress free dungeon enviroment. Its not about the convenience its about reducing the stress for players so they can have a more calm and better experience.

In a perfect world people would wait but the reality is people dont even wait for u at deadmines entry when ur flying to westfall from SW. Thats less then 5 minutes.

Also my interpretation of slow and steady is a stress free and calm experience. Not just time consuming for the sake of beeing time consuming.

[Redmagejoe]

@Title: No, let's not.

There's a large swath of people, myself included, who would quit this server if a feature like this were added. Given other QoL changes in the last year or two, it begins to smack unpleasantly of what happened to retail. I will vehemently campaign against this feature ever being on this server.

By the way, you don't have to camp anywhere near the dungeon. If there's people who whine that you're taking too long to get to the dungeon, THEY are the assholes expecting someone to sit around fingering their own asshole and blowing spit bubbles next to the Meeting Stone rather than playing the game while in a QUEUE (seriously, what idiot doesn't understand how queues work and demands people to already be there?).

[Sinrek]

Yeah but there are dungeons all over the world the argument to quest near the dungeon is not always possible and the dungeon should not dictate where i quest at all imo.

Akchuelly that's exactly what adventuring for your character is. You endure hardships, travel to places unknown, explore hidden places and discover the riches, possibly everything listed and somewhere outside the dungeon first, later on inside one.

So, the less conveniences there are the more authentic your journey will be. Hence you don't need to be zipped in. You travel there, perhaps even ahead of everyone else. Prepared, of course. That's part of what you should be good at for social (this is MMORPG after all) game.

[Karrados]

Yeah no. This would just end up being like Retail where most of the group will just continue questing "because someone else is going to do it"

"You could just kick or talk with the person that is not moving" You can but if there is one thing I've learnt about Turtle recently then it's that no one talks, ever. If you say something then chances are extremely high that they won't respond at all. If you kick them then you will just have to play the waiting game even more. This is one of those situations where you can't win.

I'd rather they keep it how it is right now with everyone being responsible for their own travel instead of pushing it off on two people.

[Bob022]

No. It's a world, not a lobby.

[Shroudedsoul]

If that's the case then why aren't y'all demanding Mages lose Teleports/Portals and Warlocks summoning?

[Karrados]

Because they have been there since Vanilla and it is part of their toolkit.

[Redmagejoe]

If that's the case then why aren't y'all demanding Mages lose Teleports/Portals and Warlocks summoning?

Mage Portals are useless from within cities with every capital city being a hop, skip and a jump from any other, but only send you to the nearest capital city and not directly to the dungeon. If anything they're tools for going home FROM the dungeon. Warlocks require 2 other people be where they're at, and are a specific class afforded that convenience, making it class flavor rather than it being a baseline behavior of the game world.

Are you so new to the internet that you think your grade-school level logical fallacies like this false equivalence will win you brownie points? We're not idiots here.

[Boras]

Lately i noticed i get very stressed out doing dungeons especially with the cross faction feature. Often i queue up a dungeon and find myself with two options:

A: camp the dungeons as dps for hours to be there in time
B: continuing my journey till the group is full or the inv pops up

Sadly the one is very boring and time consuming. I stand in the Barrens or Tirifal Glades with no near quest for my faction and if im unlucky my whole gaming session was waiting for a group that never came to live.

The other option is i continue my journey (sometimes u have to when HS is on CD and ur a bit far away from fp). In this scenario i found myself often stressed out. When im the furthest away i often get stressed by players or outright replaced. The third scenario is i arrive and half the dungeon is cleared. Often u have half the route done for nothing at all.

So my question is why are these stones not active to summon players?

In a Alliance group we all have the same fp´s and therefore similar routes or times we arrive. But if i queue with horde they can get some instances in a quarter of the time it takes me to get there. And same for the other faction. That results in an absolute stressfull enviroment and does not really go well with the slow and steady theme. I can be patient and wait for players but i cant decide that for other players. They wanna start have limited time and i understand it.

What does the summoning stone in its current state add to the player experience?

I would say nothing. Yeah u see players walking around in the open world but they are in such a hurry they dont have the time to interact with anything if they want to see the whole dungeon or be part of the group.

I love doing dungeons not for the loot not for gold for the sake of doing it. Alot of people dont have that mindset and visit the dungeon only if needed. Im getting more and more frutrated and i consider not queuing any dungeons at all. Im here to enjoy myself not to rush to a place im sadly the furthest away. So why not make it possible to summon with 3 players at the summoning stone? What is the benefit in waiting for the last two players with sometimes very very long ways to the instance? Isnt it enough when 3 players roam around the world do we need 2 stressed out players more to have the feeling of a living world for the cost of potential group members?

I think not. I would suggest rethinking the stance on that feature. Im not a retail fan of porting in the dungeon with no interaction at all but im also not a fan of walking half an hour for a half cleared dungeon or beeing stressed in the time i have in my day to relax.

Pls let me know what u think about it. Im relly curious to know what is the benefit of not having the stones at all? Also i have to mention i have not met one player on my journey that liked the fact this feature is not active.

As always have a good one!

No, it's fine the way it is. What actually happens is people refuse to actually show up at the dungeon and instead expect to be summoned instead, causing people to get irritated with each other before the actual dungeon starts. If you can't be bothered to show up, then don't queue the dungeon.

[Rat2156]

Lately i noticed i get very stressed out doing dungeons especially with the cross faction feature. Often i queue up a dungeon and find myself with two options:

A: camp the dungeons as dps for hours to be there in time
B: continuing my journey till the group is full or the inv pops up

Sadly the one is very boring and time consuming. I stand in the Barrens or Tirifal Glades with no near quest for my faction and if im unlucky my whole gaming session was waiting for a group that never came to live.

The other option is i continue my journey (sometimes u have to when HS is on CD and ur a bit far away from fp). In this scenario i found myself often stressed out. When im the furthest away i often get stressed by players or outright replaced. The third scenario is i arrive and half the dungeon is cleared. Often u have half the route done for nothing at all.

So my question is why are these stones not active to summon players?

In a Alliance group we all have the same fp´s and therefore similar routes or times we arrive. But if i queue with horde they can get some instances in a quarter of the time it takes me to get there. And same for the other faction. That results in an absolute stressfull enviroment and does not really go well with the slow and steady theme. I can be patient and wait for players but i cant decide that for other players. They wanna start have limited time and i understand it.

What does the summoning stone in its current state add to the player experience?

I would say nothing. Yeah u see players walking around in the open world but they are in such a hurry they dont have the time to interact with anything if they want to see the whole dungeon or be part of the group.

I love doing dungeons not for the loot not for gold for the sake of doing it. Alot of people dont have that mindset and visit the dungeon only if needed. Im getting more and more frutrated and i consider not queuing any dungeons at all. Im here to enjoy myself not to rush to a place im sadly the furthest away. So why not make it possible to summon with 3 players at the summoning stone? What is the benefit in waiting for the last two players with sometimes very very long ways to the instance? Isnt it enough when 3 players roam around the world do we need 2 stressed out players more to have the feeling of a living world for the cost of potential group members?

I think not. I would suggest rethinking the stance on that feature. Im not a retail fan of porting in the dungeon with no interaction at all but im also not a fan of walking half an hour for a half cleared dungeon or beeing stressed in the time i have in my day to relax.

Pls let me know what u think about it. Im relly curious to know what is the benefit of not having the stones at all? Also i have to mention i have not met one player on my journey that liked the fact this feature is not active.

As always have a good one!

No, it's fine the way it is. What actually happens is people refuse to actually show up at the dungeon and instead expect to be summoned instead, causing people to get irritated with each other before the actual dungeon starts. If you can't be bothered to show up, then don't queue the dungeon.

Even now it's bad when you get in a LFT party with a warlock. You can expect 2-3 people to just not bother making their way to the dungeons.

Add summoning stones, and this'll be the experience in every group

[Shroudedsoul]

If that's the case then why aren't y'all demanding Mages lose Teleports/Portals and Warlocks summoning?

Mage Portals are useless from within cities with every capital city being a hop, skip and a jump from any other, but only send you to the nearest capital city and not directly to the dungeon. If anything they're tools for going home FROM the dungeon. Warlocks require 2 other people be where they're at, and are a specific class afforded that convenience, making it class flavor rather than it being a baseline behavior of the game world.

Are you so new to the internet that you think your grade-school level logical fallacies like this false equivalence will win you brownie points? We're not idiots here.

All I see there is excuses for the double standard.

Never said you were, but if that's what you get out of that then it is what it is.

[Hauntingsforum]

@Title: No, let's not.

There's a large swath of people, myself included, who would quit this server if a feature like this were added. Given other QoL changes in the last year or two, it begins to smack unpleasantly of what happened to retail. I will vehemently campaign against this feature ever being on this server.

By the way, you don't have to camp anywhere near the dungeon. If there's people who whine that you're taking too long to get to the dungeon, THEY are the assholes expecting someone to sit around fingering their own asshole and blowing spit bubbles next to the Meeting Stone rather than playing the game while in a QUEUE (seriously, what idiot doesn't understand how queues work and demands people to already be there?).

All i read her pls no retail and sth. about people with finger in their asses.

Its sad when there is no argument other then we dont want it. What made retail retail was not the summoning stone it was a bunch of decision and design shift in the game over a couple of expensions. So i get what u dont want a lfg tool which ironically we have. I dont want a lobby game too but i also dont want a half cleared dungeon. As long as the LFT does not port the whole group in the dungeon there wont be a lobby game. But i dont think there is a foundation for a argumentation at all when i read ur statement. Which is ok u can just say no sadly it does not a to the discussion but thx for the inisght in what people do with fingers.

[Hauntingsforum]

@Title: No, let's not.

There's a large swath of people, myself included, who would quit this server if a feature like this were added. Given other QoL changes in the last year or two, it begins to smack unpleasantly of what happened to retail. I will vehemently campaign against this feature ever being on this server.

By the way, you don't have to camp anywhere near the dungeon. If there's people who whine that you're taking too long to get to the dungeon, THEY are the assholes expecting someone to sit around fingering their own asshole and blowing spit bubbles next to the Meeting Stone rather than playing the game while in a QUEUE (seriously, what idiot doesn't understand how queues work and demands people to already be there?).

All i read here is pls no retail and sth. about people with finger in their asses.

Its sad when there is no argument other then we dont want it. What made retail retail was not the summoning stone it was a bunch of decision and design shift in the game over a couple of expensions. So i get what u dont want a lfg tool which ironically we have. I dont want a lobby game too but i also dont want a half cleared dungeon. As long as the LFT does not port the whole group in the dungeon there wont be a lobby game. But i dont think there is a foundation for a argumentation at all when i read ur statement. Which is ok u can just say no sadly it does not a to the discussion but thx for the inisght in what people do with fingers.

[Hauntingsforum]

Yeah no. This would just end up being like Retail where most of the group will just continue questing "because someone else is going to do it"

"You could just kick or talk with the person that is not moving" You can but if there is one thing I've learnt about Turtle recently then it's that no one talks, ever. If you say something then chances are extremely high that they won't respond at all. If you kick them then you will just have to play the waiting game even more. This is one of those situations where you can't win.

I'd rather they keep it how it is right now with everyone being responsible for their own travel instead of pushing it off on two people.

Its less about the travel its about beeing stressed while doing so. I dont know when u last queued for a dungeon but the current situation is they just start and if u have the longest way often the amount of dungeon that is left does not justify the journey to it. Which for me lead to leaving half way. I just want the full experience when i wait 2hours for it. Ofc as a tank and a healer u wont have this problem. But as a dps its acutally really frustrating. Lets be real here we all dont want this to be retail. But beeing forced to rush somewhere caue people start without u feels more retail then anything else. Time pressure on a slow and steady server just makes no sense. So why dont have a feature to get the last man or the last two on board so the group can have the full experience together.

[Hauntingsforum]

If that's the case then why aren't y'all demanding Mages lose Teleports/Portals and Warlocks summoning?

Mage Portals are useless from within cities with every capital city being a hop, skip and a jump from any other, but only send you to the nearest capital city and not directly to the dungeon. If anything they're tools for going home FROM the dungeon. Warlocks require 2 other people be where they're at, and are a specific class afforded that convenience, making it class flavor rather than it being a baseline behavior of the game world.

Are you so new to the internet that you think your grade-school level logical fallacies like this false equivalence will win you brownie points? We're not idiots here.

All I see there is excuses for the double standard.

Never said you were, but if that's what you get out of that then it is what it is.

Double standards are always welcome when they cater ur point of view. Logic often gets ignored when it could negatively affect ur position. I think u have a point here even if i think there are nuances to this and its not exactly the same but it shows that a teleportation feature alone does not make a game "retail".

[Hauntingsforum]

Yeah but there are dungeons all over the world the argument to quest near the dungeon is not always possible and the dungeon should not dictate where i quest at all imo.

Akchuelly that's exactly what adventuring for your character is. You endure hardships, travel to places unknown, explore hidden places and discover the riches, possibly everything listed and somewhere outside the dungeon first, later on inside one.

So, the less conveniences there are the more authentic your journey will be. Hence you don't need to be zipped in. You travel there, perhaps even ahead of everyone else. Prepared, of course. That's part of what you should be good at for social (this is MMORPG after all) game.

I absolutely agree but that requires 5 man with the same mindset to be true. And dungeons designed with quest for both sides which often is only in a small degree to be found. RFK, SM just two prominent examples of dungeons that are one faction based. Again people wont even wait dm entry when ur flying to westfall from sw. The rush mentality is already here and it hurts the experience when u get the feeling of i have to be fast to get there. That is where my journey becomes a race.

[Hauntingsforum]

So for me it feels more retail to have to rush to a place cause everybody want to do it FAST and NOW and getting replaced cause i cant make it in time due to having cooldown on HS or a bad flight path.

This breaks the core philosophy of Turtle WOW: slow and steady.

Funny that a slow and steady server has a 30% xp feature that has no real pvp incentives, a LFG Tool, a turtle mount to be faster then usual, shop mounts that scale with player, a survival profession that gives insane rested boost on experience but gives a hard NO for a simple feature to teleport 2 out of 5 players so the group does not have to afk or start without people. Both i would consider unsocial at best.

[Drubarrymooer]

BACK IN MY DAY WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE LFT. WE JUST WALKED TO THE DUNGEON...UPHILL BOTH WAYS.

My person, sarcasm aside, you're not getting it. People here like vanilla wow. There's a large community of folks who widely regard it as the "best expansion". That's why they're here. And "the walking simulator", as many refer to it, is an affectionate moniker. Groups fall apart, not everyone min/maxes, and the "flaws" you present are generally thought of as part of the charm.

WoW is a social game. TBC and WOTLK later brought QoL "improvements" that were and still are thought of as the downfall of the game. This is one of the suspected reasons that Blizzard stopped releasing subscriber numbers at the peak of WOTLK just after a few months of slow decline iirc. Summoning stones, fast as hell mounts so you didn't need to rely on a city or town for a FP, and cross server BGs for insta bg queue popping. We stopped paying attention to the R14s, to the top raiding guilds, who was doing what, what players were ninjas and to be avoided, the serial gankers etc etc etc....the social aspects that made vanilla WoW such a success in the first place We have that all here in this comfy little home we call TWoW.

The above is why when these posts crop up every week or 2, people stomp all over the suggestion. Even I was for it then someone spelled it out for me as I am for you. If you don't get it, that's fine. I can respect that. Not everyone has to see eye to eye. But you should realize that its more than likely never going to change. This is one of the many many things that sets TWoW apart from other vanilla+ servers.

I hope that helps you at least understand where many of us are coming from. Hope I didn't come across as mean or anything. Much ! Talk to your fellow party members. What's going on, how's the weather, what loot do they want, what loot you want, how's one another's guilds performing, are you looking for a good? Are party members looking for a guild. Maybe someone is questing in the same zone or about to ding and move to the same zone you just started in. All great suggestions that most people will talk about openly in flight/running.

[Hauntingsforum]

BACK IN MY DAY WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE LFT. WE JUST WALKED TO THE DUNGEON...UPHILL BOTH WAYS.

My person, sarcasm aside, you're not getting it. People here like vanilla wow. There's a large community of folks who widely regard it as the "best expansion". That's why they're here. And "the walking simulator", as many refer to it, is an affectionate moniker. Groups fall apart, not everyone min/maxes, and the "flaws" you present are generally thought of as part of the charm.

WoW is a social game. TBC and WOTLK later brought QoL "improvements" that were and still are thought of as the downfall of the game. This is one of the suspected reasons that Blizzard stopped releasing subscriber numbers at the peak of WOTLK just after a few months of slow decline iirc. Summoning stones, fast as hell mounts so you didn't need to rely on a city or town for a FP, and cross server BGs for insta bg queue popping. We stopped paying attention to the R14s, to the top raiding guilds, who was doing what, what players were ninjas and to be avoided, the serial gankers etc etc etc....the social aspects that made vanilla WoW such a success in the first place We have that all here in this comfy little home we call TWoW.

The above is why when these posts crop up every week or 2, people stomp all over the suggestion. Even I was for it then someone spelled it out for me as I am for you. If you don't get it, that's fine. I can respect that. Not everyone has to see eye to eye. But you should realize that its more than likely never going to change. This is one of the many many things that sets TWoW apart from other vanilla+ servers.

I hope that helps you at least understand where many of us are coming from. Hope I didn't come across as mean or anything. Much !

I absolutely get ur point but i have to disagree. Wow is a game where u can be social but it does not require beeing social at all. Times have changed and where not in the early 2000´s anymore. Everything is known everything is written up in a guide and everyone has access to it. So that is one part why people demand less on each other. Also its already played multiple times people min max classic maybe even more then retail just for the sake of doing so.

I found it to be inconsistent game design. We have the turtle mount but summoning stones are bad? So what does one qol set it above another? Why is nobody crying about the shop bag, the auctionator, the bank pet etc? At this point i have the feeling the stone thematic is more a symbol of classic integrety then anything else and needs to be rethinked.

Also its not about qol its about getting the pressure from other players out of the experience for those who a here for a calm and classic experience. Back in the day a group most likely would not have started without everyone on board. Today its no problem to go in with only 4 people and just forget about the one still sitting on the fp. The walking simulator does not add anything good it just creates a enviroment that stresses out players that are dependant on those with the retail mindset of go go go fast. I have two options dont take part in group activities and not queue or beeing in this enviroment where time becomes a factor. I think with the with the LFT and summoning stones u wont hurt the classic feeling at all. LFT for not having to spam the chat and the stones for not having to get time pressured while going there. U will still often wander to a dungeon when ur way is shorter which i like as long as there is no clock running besides me showing how much of the instance i wont play due to long journey there. There is no need to let the players suffer that are further away from the haste of others. Also back in the day there was no cross faction. If i queued a dungeon all my playes had alliance fp´s and that sometimes meant to have a long way so everybody was cool with it now i compete in time with a faction that sits in front of a dungeon and have no patience to wait for me cause they dont know how my journey differs from theirs.

Classic is about the journey and the journey shouldnt be the most convenient ever but it also should not be unpleasent. I just thinkg with xfaction the downsides of walking to a dungeon is bigger then in original vanilla wow. The classic feeling argument cannot be hold on a server with cross faction. At this point its a double standard. Nobody cries about having the LFT but when u say summoning stones suddenly the classic feeling argument is made. I dont know how i should take that argument serious then?

Im for the vanilla feeling but im also in for changes where changes need to be made. Thats why i play a server with classchanges cause not everything was good in vanilla and we all know that. With new features like x faction u create new problems that needs to be adressed. And i think the activation of the stones does not make turtle retail. I think having an enviroment where u feel time pressure cause others are inpatient does.

In short i think the stones would save the classic feeling in this enviroment and counter the actual ongoing retail mindset of fast and the antisocial behaviour that comes with it.

[Drubarrymooer]

I absolutely get ur point but i have to disagree. Wow is a game where u can be social but it does not require beeing social at all. Times have changed and where not in the early 2000´s anymore. Everything is known everything is written up in a guide and everyone has access to it. So that is one part why people demand less on each other. Also its already played multiple times people min max classic maybe even more then retail just for the sake of doing so.

I found it to be inconsistent game design. We have the turtle mount but summoning stones are bad? So what does one qol set it above another? Also its not about qol its about getting the pressure from other players out of the experience for those who a here for a calm and classic experience. Back in the day a group most likely would not have started without everyone on board. Today its no problem to go in with only 4 people and just forget about the one still sitting on the fp. The walking simulator does not add anything good it just creates a enviroment that stresses out players that are dependant on those with the retail mindset of go go go fast. I have two options dont take part in group activities and not queue or beeing in this enviroment where time becomes a factor. I think with the with the LFT and summoning stones u wont hurt the classic feeling at all. LFT for not having to spam the chat and the stones for not having to get time pressured while going there. U will still often wander to a dungeon when ur way is shorter which im like and find it ok to get there. But there is no need to let the players suffer that are further away from the haste of others. Also back in the day there was no cross faction. If i queued a dungeon all my playes had alliance fp´s and that sometimes meant to have a long way so everybody was cool with it now i compete in time with a faction that sits in front of a dungeon and have no patience to wait for me cause they dont know how my journey differs from theirs.

Classic is about the journey and the journey shouldnt be the most convenient ever but it also should not be unpleasent. I just thinkg with xfaction the downsides of walking to a dungeon is bigger then in original vanilla wow. The classic feeling argument cannot be hold on a server with cross faction. At this point its a double standard. Nobody cries about having the LFT but when u say summoning stones suddenly the classic feeling argument is made. I dont know how i should take that argument serious then?

Im for the vanilla feeling but im also in for changes where changes need to be made. Thats why i play a server with classchanges cause not everything was good in vanilla and we all know that. With new features like x faction u create new problems that needs to be adressed. And i think the activation of the stones does not make turtle retail. I think having an enviroment where u feel time pressure cause others are inpatient does.

Sometimes journeys are difficult. A mount is nowhere near the same comparison as instant teleportation that requires no effort. And I beg to differ that a 5 man dungeon is a solo affair where you don't socialize or talk with anyone.... At least in vanilla wow it wasn't and isn't. Lastly, not everything is known.. people are still discovering bugs to this day.. even in older versions of the game. On top of that, believe it or not, not everyone reads all the wikis and all the strats and does all the guides and knows all the content. I've played with literal 14 year olds and this is their first foray into Warcraft. They have no idea how to play the game and no idea what these dungeons are about. I'm quite a bit older than that and I didn't get to experience half of these dungeons and half of the raid content until I came here. There's the stark difference between even watching a guide and reading a wiki and executing it flawlessly. None of your points hold any water. The devs have already stated they're not going to do it and it's not in the spirit of turtle wow and you keep arguing for it. If this is the hill you choose to die on so be it but all the responses in the world and all the back and forth thing isn't going to change anything. Have a great one.

p.s. this isn't classic and pretty much everyone I know that says "I had so much fun in classic" follows it up with several things that were sh*tty about it. I'd bet a small sum of gold but most people don't want this to be classic or anything like it because of a myriad of reasons.

Get the last word if you must but I'm gonna get some zzz's. Hope to see you in game friend.

[Sunflowerdeath1]

I dont get this mindset "harder game" = "better". To be against quality of life improvements for dungeon visiting for me looks the same as being against the possibility of flying between locations at all. Visiting dungeons is not some optional part of the game. All players need to spend time on it in one way or another, and the question is how to maximize the quality and fun of that time, but do it without rewarding lazy players who don't want to put any effort.

There is actually a very simple solution that can suit both sides – to add some token that requires some grind or gold, that allows some fast way of getting to a dungeon. The details of implementation may be different. For example, it may require visiting meeting stone first to add this dungeon to your collection. And way of obtaining tokens can also be different – for example, it can be dropped from last bosses of dungeons, or be a reward from some repeatable quest, or just have some reasonably long cooldown, and it can be made tradeable or non-tradeable, its just details.

[Allwynd01]

Yeah no. This would just end up being like Retail where most of the group will just continue questing "because someone else is going to do it"

"You could just kick or talk with the person that is not moving" You can but if there is one thing I've learnt about Turtle recently then it's that no one talks, ever. If you say something then chances are extremely high that they won't respond at all. If you kick them then you will just have to play the waiting game even more. This is one of those situations where you can't win.

I'd rather they keep it how it is right now with everyone being responsible for their own travel instead of pushing it off on two people.

Its less about the travel its about beeing stressed while doing so. I dont know when u last queued for a dungeon but the current situation is they just start and if u have the longest way often the amount of dungeon that is left does not justify the journey to it. Which for me lead to leaving half way. I just want the full experience when i wait 2hours for it. Ofc as a tank and a healer u wont have this problem. But as a dps its acutally really frustrating. Lets be real here we all dont want this to be retail. But beeing forced to rush somewhere caue people start without u feels more retail then anything else. Time pressure on a slow and steady server just makes no sense. So why dont have a feature to get the last man or the last two on board so the group can have the full experience together.

I noticed two of your previous replies starting with "yeah, but..." which is not a good sign of what is to follow.

If you feel stressed out with something, either adapt to it or stop doing it. You can't demand the server to be changed to fit your requirements and needs. Right now I'm hauling the ass of my Human Warlock to The Barrens so later today, in the evening, I can queue for Wailing Caverns. I don't want to queue in the evening and have the group wait for me to get there.

I will get there, play some GTA5 Online or Guild Wars 2, do some work and when the evening comes I will log in and queue for Wailing Caverns.

[Reploidrocsa]

No.
Part of doing a dungeon is willing to spend time to get there. Ofc you can start clearing the trash if the group agrees, avoid those groups who don't say a word and don't wait for no one, they're not worth it.
And if i were me i would remove lock summon and mage portals (they can keep teleport)

[Redmagejoe]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to argue with someone who wishes to stick their fingers in their ears and ignore the nuance of the situation and dismiss logic out of hand because it doesn't align with their argument. You have conceded your part in this debate.

Likewise, I have neither the time nor the inclination to retrace half a decade or more of discussions spanning the internet regarding the casualization of the game, slippery slopes that always inevitably come to pass, or the server's core philosophy and desires of both the founding members of this community and the large population of those drawn by the core philosophy of this server.

If you, too, wish to dismiss out of hand the argument because you expect me to spoon-feed you what can easily be researched long before you make a suggestion post on these forums, and you take umbrage to my tone because I find it exhausting seeing the same unpopular and doomed suggestions made without a single iota of evidence that you bothered to read the forums let alone the suggestions forum before obliviously pulling up a New Thread form singing "Golly! Have I got a great idea to discuss!"... That's a you problem.

The staff will never implement this feature, and you can put money on that. If you want someone to retread a discussion that's already been had dozens of times, find someone else. If dungeons stress you out, don't run dungeons. Don't ask the Staff to implement an un-vanilla, un-Turtle feature because of stress you've created for yourself. It's a video game. It's not meant to be stressful. That's entirely on you, and I'd suggest you consider a different game if you find it's causing you stress rather than relieving it.

[Shroudedsoul]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to argue with someone who wishes to stick their fingers in their ears and ignore the nuance of the situation and dismiss logic out of hand because it doesn't align with their argument. You have conceded your part in this debate.

Likewise, I have neither the time nor the inclination to retrace half a decade or more of discussions spanning the internet regarding the casualization of the game, slippery slopes that always inevitably come to pass, or the server's core philosophy and desires of both the founding members of this community and the large population of those drawn by the core philosophy of this server.

If you, too, wish to dismiss out of hand the argument because you expect me to spoon-feed you what can easily be researched long before you make a suggestion post on these forums, and you take umbrage to my tone because I find it exhausting seeing the same unpopular and doomed suggestions made without a single iota of evidence that you bothered to read the forums let alone the suggestions forum before obliviously pulling up a New Thread form singing "Golly! Have I got a great idea to discuss!"... That's a you problem.

The staff will never implement this feature, and you can put money on that. If you want someone to retread a discussion that's already been had dozens of times, find someone else. If dungeons stress you out, don't run dungeons. Don't ask the Staff to implement an un-vanilla, un-Turtle feature because of stress you've created for yourself. It's a video game. It's not meant to be stressful. That's entirely on you, and I'd suggest you consider a different game if you find it's causing you stress rather than relieving it.

For someone saying you have no time for me you sure spent a lot of time replying to me with a lot of insults.

The utter hypocrisy.

[Elesion]

This is quickly devolving into unproductive flaming.

I am intuitively against summoning stones for a number of reasons (none of them set in stone). There are real concerns that would need to be addressed.

But I also get the problem with travel times, feeling paralyzed because you want to stay available and close-by, party members not caring and queuing from the other end of the world (absolutely "love" the first thing to read from a party member being "where is the instance?" meaning they don't even have the flight point), etc.
Given our developers can do homebrew solutions and don't need to just copy retail features - how about we come up with a clever solution that tries to make both parties at least a little happier?

My proposal: Clicking on the meeting stone at a dungeon creates a consumable item that despawns after 12 hours. Consuming the item (requires to be out of combat and a 30s channel) will teleport you to the meeting stone. So now you can prepare ahead of time and then go off to wherever you want to quest or farm. You still have to manually go to the instance at one point. It still hinges on individual responsibility. But it takes the pressure of waiting close-by out and it only benefits the rest of the group due to not having to wait.

[Astrallizard]

Personally, I do not like the idea of turning the stones into summoning ones. Even when it requires 4 players to perform the summoning ritual, certain people will make sure to be the lazy 5th player.

An interesting alternative could be to allow players in dungeon level range to bind their hearthstone to a meeting stone. Max level characters would be excluded from this feature.

[Hauntingsforum]

Yeah no. This would just end up being like Retail where most of the group will just continue questing "because someone else is going to do it"

"You could just kick or talk with the person that is not moving" You can but if there is one thing I've learnt about Turtle recently then it's that no one talks, ever. If you say something then chances are extremely high that they won't respond at all. If you kick them then you will just have to play the waiting game even more. This is one of those situations where you can't win.

I'd rather they keep it how it is right now with everyone being responsible for their own travel instead of pushing it off on two people.

Its less about the travel its about beeing stressed while doing so. I dont know when u last queued for a dungeon but the current situation is they just start and if u have the longest way often the amount of dungeon that is left does not justify the journey to it. Which for me lead to leaving half way. I just want the full experience when i wait 2hours for it. Ofc as a tank and a healer u wont have this problem. But as a dps its acutally really frustrating. Lets be real here we all dont want this to be retail. But beeing forced to rush somewhere caue people start without u feels more retail then anything else. Time pressure on a slow and steady server just makes no sense. So why dont have a feature to get the last man or the last two on board so the group can have the full experience together.

I noticed two of your previous replies starting with "yeah, but..." which is not a good sign of what is to follow.

If you feel stressed out with something, either adapt to it or stop doing it. You can't demand the server to be changed to fit your requirements and needs. Right now I'm hauling the ass of my Human Warlock to The Barrens so later today, in the evening, I can queue for Wailing Caverns. I don't want to queue in the evening and have the group wait for me to get there.

I will get there, play some GTA5 Online or Guild Wars 2, do some work and when the evening comes I will log in and queue for Wailing Caverns.

Yeah but ur defending the feature with the argumentation to get there and just play sth else in the meantime? Is that how a game should work be so time and effort intensive that u have to bridge the time with sth else? Idk i wanna play Twow not Gta 5.

[Hauntingsforum]

No.
Part of doing a dungeon is willing to spend time to get there. Ofc you can start clearing the trash if the group agrees, avoid those groups who don't say a word and don't wait for no one, they're not worth it.
And if i were me i would remove lock summon and mage portals (they can keep teleport)

Yeah i avoid that group and just wait 2 more hours for a tank. Thats just not realistic to do sorry but the waiting time and the demand on tank players is really high so there is no cherry picking of groups.