Is warrior tanking difficult?

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Kingduskwolf
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Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Kingduskwolf » Wed May 24, 2023 7:21 pm

I quit wrath classic a while ago because of guild drama but during wrath classic I tried raid tanking for the first time and I just enjoyed it so much that I don't know if I can go back, but I am a little intimidated by tanking in vanilla. I was a blood dk and in wrath so the idea of stance dancing, rage management etc worries me a little since my experience is it wrath where i'm told threat is much easier to hold.

I do know that all the classes have had major and minor tweaks to their talents and such but actually translating all those into gameplay is a bit different, for example I do know thunderclap can be used in defensive which seems like it would make tanking much easier but having never played prot I don't now for sure.

So yeah basically I'm asking if I should try tanking as a prot warrior coming from wrath classic? Or maybe I should try another class like paladin?

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Redmagejoe
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Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Redmagejoe » Wed May 24, 2023 7:25 pm

Kingduskwolf wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 7:21 pm
I quit wrath classic a while ago because of guild drama but during wrath classic I tried raid tanking for the first time and I just enjoyed it so much that I don't know if I can go back, but I am a little intimidated by tanking in vanilla. I was a blood dk and in wrath so the idea of stance dancing, rage management etc worries me a little since my experience is it wrath where i'm told threat is much easier to hold.

I do know that all the classes have had major and minor tweaks to their talents and such but actually translating all those into gameplay is a bit different, for example I do know thunderclap can be used in defensive which seems like it would make tanking much easier but having never played prot I don't now for sure.

So yeah basically I'm asking if I should try tanking as a prot warrior coming from wrath classic? Or maybe I should try another class like paladin?
Hello, and welcome to the world of vanilla warrior tanking. Is it hard? Depends on how you define hard. Warrior is the class that has the easiest time tanking even with 0 talent points invested in any tree (meaning you DO NOT have to go Prot before raids to tank well), but it depends largely on your understanding of your kit. I made a helpful post in a thread on this topic a while back. Let me see if I can find it for you...

EDIT: Here you go viewtopic.php?p=29377#p29377

Kingduskwolf
Posts: 3

Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Kingduskwolf » Wed May 24, 2023 7:39 pm

Redmagejoe wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 7:25 pm
Kingduskwolf wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 7:21 pm
I quit wrath classic a while ago because of guild drama but during wrath classic I tried raid tanking for the first time and I just enjoyed it so much that I don't know if I can go back, but I am a little intimidated by tanking in vanilla. I was a blood dk and in wrath so the idea of stance dancing, rage management etc worries me a little since my experience is it wrath where i'm told threat is much easier to hold.

I do know that all the classes have had major and minor tweaks to their talents and such but actually translating all those into gameplay is a bit different, for example I do know thunderclap can be used in defensive which seems like it would make tanking much easier but having never played prot I don't now for sure.

So yeah basically I'm asking if I should try tanking as a prot warrior coming from wrath classic? Or maybe I should try another class like paladin?
Hello, and welcome to the world of vanilla warrior tanking. Is it hard? Depends on how you define hard. Warrior is the class that has the easiest time tanking even with 0 talent points invested in any tree (meaning you DO NOT have to go Prot before raids to tank well), but it depends largely on your understanding of your kit. I made a helpful post in a thread on this topic a while back. Let me see if I can find it for you...

EDIT: Here you go viewtopic.php?p=29377#p29377
This honestly doesn't sound too bad, revenge, shield slam, sunder, and the occasional thunderclap while tabing through each target to make sure threat is kept, main thing I guess I want to know is if the change to thunderclap basically eliminates the whole stance dance concept?

Greese
Posts: 56

Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Greese » Wed May 24, 2023 8:14 pm

The rotation and gearing part of tanking aren't too bad.

It is having to manage other players and groups that can make it difficult.

It is less of a problem on turtle because there are way fewer toxic players compared to classic but you will still have to advice some mage not to AoE before you can touch a mob pack, or have a hunter pull an extra pack and wipe, or have a healer literally AFK a microsecond after you pull. Being in charge of but also at the mercy of other players is the difficult part of tanking. At least for me.

Kingduskwolf
Posts: 3

Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Kingduskwolf » Wed May 24, 2023 10:31 pm

Greese wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 8:14 pm
The rotation and gearing part of tanking aren't too bad.

It is having to manage other players and groups that can make it difficult.

It is less of a problem on turtle because there are way fewer toxic players compared to classic but you will still have to advice some mage not to AoE before you can touch a mob pack, or have a hunter pull an extra pack and wipe, or have a healer literally AFK a microsecond after you pull. Being in charge of but also at the mercy of other players is the difficult part of tanking. At least for me.
True, tanking in wotlk I had the luxury of the LFG tool that while not allowing teleportation does help find people who are interested in dungeons. I do see turtle wow has something similar, would leveling mostly be tanking dungeons with that be viable?

Also out of curiosity for pve content, does faction matter much? I personally don't care much for pvp and I see that the server is cross faction but I can't tell if the cross faction also means you can join mixed guilds.

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Syrathegreat
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Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Syrathegreat » Wed May 24, 2023 10:54 pm

Kingduskwolf wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 7:39 pm
This honestly doesn't sound too bad, revenge, shield slam, sunder, and the occasional thunderclap while tabing through each target to make sure threat is kept, main thing I guess I want to know is if the change to thunderclap basically eliminates the whole stance dance concept?
For AoE tanking you do want to spam tclap as your main aoe threat generator - Redmagejoe means do not grow complacent that this will always hold your aoe threat so you need to keep an eye on your threat meter and use sunders etc as necessary but it should still be your priority; tabbing sunder is no longer necessary nor recommended. Additionally because of this, you really want to grab improved tclap if you ever plan to tank while levelling to make it extra sticky. Your best tanking spec for levelling is actually arms, skipping the rend line (breaks CC) and imp Heroic Strike.

RE stance dancing, yeah it's not that required for tanking. Mainly you want it for charging or, if you want to have the best fun you can as a tank warrior, going sweeping strikes to whirlwind with a chonky 2H (so long as you have a healer who is happy with the extra damage taken).

If you're not on it already, join the discord - there's a ton of advice in the Warrior channel!
Redmagejoe wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 7:25 pm
I made a helpful post in a thread on this topic a while back. Let me see if I can find it for you...

EDIT: Here you go viewtopic.php?p=29377#p29377
Btw could you repost the threat image on that post please? It's not showing for me crying_turtle. I'd never heard that advice about using shield bash over sunder before so I was super curious! I'm assuming it's based on TPR?
Juniper <Gnomish Cosmonaut Corps> - Hunter | Gnome | 54 | War Mode | S&S
Kyra - Warrior | Night Elf | 25 | HC | S&S | Lorekeeper
Kolgra - Warrior | Orc | 31 | War Mode | S&S
Merry - Paladin | Dwarf | 29 | HC

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Syrathegreat
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Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Syrathegreat » Wed May 24, 2023 10:56 pm

Kingduskwolf wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 10:31 pm
Also out of curiosity for pve content, does faction matter much? I personally don't care much for pvp and I see that the server is cross faction but I can't tell if the cross faction also means you can join mixed guilds.
Nope! Guilds are cross faction too. Really you just need to pick your race well since anything other than Human, Orc, or Goblin will require weapon skill items at endgame
Juniper <Gnomish Cosmonaut Corps> - Hunter | Gnome | 54 | War Mode | S&S
Kyra - Warrior | Night Elf | 25 | HC | S&S | Lorekeeper
Kolgra - Warrior | Orc | 31 | War Mode | S&S
Merry - Paladin | Dwarf | 29 | HC

Rat2156
Posts: 271

Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Rat2156 » Thu May 25, 2023 12:08 am

The hardest parts of tanking are always situational awareness and having to deal with DPS players. While tank classes can be hard or easy, it's always tanking itself that can prove a challenge rather than playing a class

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Bigsmerf
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Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Bigsmerf » Fri May 26, 2023 4:00 pm

Learning and mastering just about any class can have some level of difficulty, including warrior, especially tanking. But you could likely master it by the time you're 60 and raiding, given you tank some dungeons while you level. Managing threat is always going to be tough in vanilla, but if you work hard enough you can make what you want to do work (To some extent at least.). I mean, if shammies can do it, I doubt you'll have a hard time tanking.
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Iambuck
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Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Iambuck » Sat May 27, 2023 9:08 am

In dungeons as a tank you'll be the success or failing factor. If you know how to manage to following points you have no reason to fail :
- hold effective aggro
- know the dungeons (the difficult packs, the patrols, the boss mechanics)
- put up marks on mobs for your dps to focus
- call out dps/heals when they do something wrong, you should be the group leader as a tank

In other words you need to chew-up the work for everyone.

Then for raids you take the same points but to a bigger extent. Also if you plan on being the main tank, i advise you pick an off-tank you know AND you trust. Every raid needs an off tank and the off tank role can be very specific fight per fight. I would say sometimes harder as offtank as you need to be more reactive than pro-active

Ishilu
Posts: 321

Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Ishilu » Sat May 27, 2023 9:46 am

Without doubt, tank is one of the more challenging roles in dungeons, especially for trash groups, but a lot depends on how the group cooperates.

Many dps players think they're already doing a good job if they only gear up nicely and make big numbers, but that's far from true.

Good dps will watch their own aggro, avoid cleave and AE damage, focus targets (either as marked by the tank or just based on the given situation, like killing healers and casters first), help out with CC (at least when asked to do so), peel the occasional mob off your healer, finish of runners, kite aggroed mobs to you instead of letting you run all over the place and then do nice numbers as icing on the cake. If people do all these things, tanking and healing becomes much easier.

An experienced tank can compensate a lack of good gameplay from others to some extent, but you shouldn't be afraid to tell people (politely!) to adjust their game so that you can safely tank your way through a dungeon.

Of course, a tank needs to learn their class, too, but often, when difficulty ramps up, it's because of inexperienced or entitled group members and a lack of teamwork.

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Redmagejoe
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Re: Is warrior tanking difficult?

Post by Redmagejoe » Sat May 27, 2023 9:47 am

As per earlier request, here's a repost of the threat chart image: https://i.imgur.com/KixFAUp.png
Syrathegreat wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 10:54 pm
Btw could you repost the threat image on that post please? It's not showing for me crying_turtle. I'd never heard that advice about using shield bash over sunder before so I was super curious! I'm assuming it's based on TPR?
It's that Shield Bash generates 180 bonus threat at all levels (when you are 12, 32, and 52 respectively), an obscene amount at the level you get it when (just in case you still can't see the chart) Sunder 3 (level 34), Revenge 1 (level 14), and Heroic Strike 9 (level 60) all do less bonus threat. Since Revenge and Sunder aren't exactly doing damage, and Shield Bash damage is comparable, you can see how it's the best option for threat generation whenever it's up.

This of course drops off once you are 34+, but that's a great many levels where Shield Bash is your opener as a tank, for only 10 rage and that much instant threat.

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