Discipline Priest

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Valadan
Posts: 9

Discipline Priest

Post by Valadan » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:54 pm

I was playing around on how to give Disc Priest a monk style spec (maybe meme-spec?), without changing too much, although when you are changing things you will have to make some sacrifices, and obviously... change is change.

Obviously the values on these could be/should be revised and you could even swap the order of the two talents I changed to ensure less build shenanigans.

I tried to be the least disruptive to the current builds as I could, but tell me what you think!

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Spriggit
Posts: 38

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Spriggit » Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:52 pm

It's certainly better than the current DISC tree.

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Mativh
Posts: 253

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Mativh » Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:21 pm

Good concepts! It would allow a monk priest build to be played (what the discipline spec was originally ment to be) and indeed it isn't invasive of other priest builds.

My brainstorming inspired by yours:

Image
Force of Will (reimagined)
Talent
Requires Priest (Discipline)
Your melee attacks have a chance to make your next spell to be instant cast (roughly 4/8/12/16/20%, not affected by weapon speed, similarly to the druid talent; omen of clarity).
And your spells that require casting have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to increase your melee attack speed by 25% for 6 seconds.


Force of Will would work similarly to your reimagined martyrdom suggestion, but not favoring fast weapons.

The duality of melee/spells triggering each other would allow a more dynamic playstyle, either balanced or focusing more on either melee or spellcasting, while supplementing with the other.

It might at first glance seem like a too strong talent, but the (lack of the) melee capacity of the current discipline priest should be taken into consideration.

Force of Will could switch position with Improved Inner Fire in order to allow melee/spellcaster shadow priest hybrid builds:
- Forsaken (& Human/Dwarf/HE) Shadow Ascendant, (which is even more focused on willpower than the holy priest)
- Night Elf Warden or Demon/Mage Hunter — finally making shadow night elves more lore-adequate
- Troll Shadow Hunter or Loa Priest
That would quite amazing.

Force of Will could also be used for an anti-spellcaster/magic-user hunter roleplaying build, combining manaburn and melee, at the expense of the healing and spell damage output.

Improved Inner focus would make sense to be a deeper monk talent that is more powerful, as it'd be one of the main melee discipline defensive abilities, allowing this playstyle to be viable if one decides to dive deeper into it.

Image
Improved Inner Fire
Talent
Requires Priest (Discipline)
Increases the armor and attack power bonus granted by Inner Fire by 15/30/50%.
(or alternatively, by an additional amount equal to 10/20/30% of your spirit, similarly to the holy talent; spiritual guidance, or the arcane mage talent; arcane resillience)


Image
Martyrdom
Talent
Requires Priest (Discipline)
Gives you a 100% chance to gain the Focused Casting effect that lasts for 6 sec after being the victim of a melee or ranged critical strike or if your health drops below 20%. The Focused Casting effect prevents you from losing casting time when taking damage and increases resistance to Interrupt effects by 20%.

I've opted to preserve the original function of Martyrdom because it is used by non-discipline builds.

New talent, positioned next to the Meditation talent in the discipline talent tree:

Image
Could be called Flow State or Art of War
Talent
Requires Priest (Discipline)
Allows you to equip fist weapons in the off-hand weapon slot and while wielding fist weapons or a staff or being unarmed; melee critical hits cause you to enter into 'Flow State' for 10 seconds, during which your dodge chance and hit chance are increased by 1/2/3/4/5%.

A responsive and rewarding way to include a weapon specialization talent (and monk playstyle adequate defense), so melee discipline priests are more inclined to use weapons that fit them thematically.

These talent's could still allow the discipline to be a support spec as it has been so far, while similtaniously resurrecting the monk discipline build for those that wish to play as such.

The melee discipline priest would rank in physical damage capacity slightly below the retribution paladin and enhancement shaman, and quite below pure physical damage classes, considering that it is a melee/spellcaster or melee/healer hybrid.

Anyhow the monk discipline priest would be (in case it'd be considered), it'd have to be brainstormed in theory first, values fine tuned, concepts adapted, and only then tested in-game, so it shouldn't be disregarded at the initial phase because it might seem not perfect in this or that way.
Feel free to suggest changes to these ideas.
Last edited by Mativh on Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:08 pm, edited 38 times in total.
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Gladeshadow
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Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Gladeshadow » Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:03 pm

Looks fine as long as things are mostly added rather than subtracted. A lot of people like the discipline tree, to taking away their vanilla experience shouldn't be done. But with some modifications to existing skills and talents while adding new talents, the current discipline builds shouldn't be hurt. And as long as it doesn't detract from others - I don't want to hear melee priests whining they aren't doing as much dps as a fury warrior. If they did as much damage as a fury warrior, it subtracts from the warrior's role.

Valadan
Posts: 9

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Valadan » Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:17 pm

Yeah, my idea was to make as little changes as possible, I do like the ideas that Mativh gave! I think the Martyrdom/Force of Will would be interesting. But I didn't specify as to what because I did want you to be able to Insta-cast Heals.

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Mativh
Posts: 253

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Mativh » Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:12 pm

Valadan wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:17 pm
Yeah, my idea was to make as little changes as possible, I do like the ideas that Mativh gave! I think the Martyrdom/Force of Will would be interesting. But I didn't specify as to what because I did want you to be able to Insta-cast Heals.
Thanks, you're right, first I wasn't sure if it would be balanced and wanted it to be an offensive capacity focused talent, but if instant heal is chosen over an instant offensive spell, it would decrease the damage output, and mana is limited. So I've edited the Force of Will suggestion to be not only about offensive spells, but all spells, allowing a melee-dps/healer hybrid or to use instant heals situationally, similarly to the original Martyrdom suggestion.
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Valadan
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Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Valadan » Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:53 pm

Mativh wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:12 pm
Valadan wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:17 pm
Yeah, my idea was to make as little changes as possible, I do like the ideas that Mativh gave! I think the Martyrdom/Force of Will would be interesting. But I didn't specify as to what because I did want you to be able to Insta-cast Heals.
Thanks, you're right, first I wasn't sure if it would be balanced and wanted it to be an offensive capacity focused talent, but if instant heal is chosen over an instant offensive spell, it would decrease the damage output, and mana is limited. So I've edited the Force of Will suggestion to be not only about offensive spells, but all spells, allowing a melee-dps/healer hybrid or to use instant heals situationally, similarly to the original Martyrdom suggestion.
You know what? After reading through, I think your ideas are spot on. I do very much like the idea of not prioritizing attack speed, this would probably mean that you would most definitely need to use daggers instead of fist weapons. I like the idea of being able to off-hand fist weapons but I do think it's a bit weird in it's specificity, It would probably be easier the talent just give you dual wield, and that does seem a bit off (Although not completely)

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Mativh
Posts: 253

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Mativh » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:47 pm

All talents improving the offensive spellcaster Holy Priest are in the Holy tree, except for the original Force of Will which is originally a deep Discipline tree talent. Fot the sake of coherence and also if the Force of Will was reimagined (as suggested above), it'd make sense to include a new talent Next to the Spiritual Healing talent which is deep in the Holy tree and there is only 1 talent in that row:

Image
Divine Providence
Talent
Requires Priest (Holy)
Casting Smite grants you 'Divine Providence', which increases your Holy Fire and Holy Nova critical chance by 3% for 12 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times and will be spent once Holy Fire or Holy Nova are used.

This would allow the offensive spellcaster holy priest to be more clearly defined (as well as be a more viable build).
Last edited by Mativh on Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mac
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Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Mac » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:10 am

I think it's a great idea and a good start.
Gladeshadow wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:03 pm
Looks fine as long as things are mostly added rather than subtracted. A lot of people like the discipline tree, to taking away their vanilla experience shouldn't be done. But with some modifications to existing skills and talents while adding new talents, the current discipline builds shouldn't be hurt. And as long as it doesn't detract from others - I don't want to hear melee priests whining they aren't doing as much dps as a fury warrior. If they did as much damage as a fury warrior, it subtracts from the warrior's role.
I agree with that.

Andima
Posts: 45

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Andima » Tue May 23, 2023 9:54 am

Really cool concept for the discipline tree.

How do you feel about a 30+ deep talent to allow monks to wear leather? It may fit the lore and the playstile and will take advantage of the 'gear vacum' shamns and hunters leave at lvl 40

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Galas
Posts: 10

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Galas » Tue May 23, 2023 12:28 pm

Making discipline-monk priests viable like it was intended in wow alpha would be not only amazing, I would just play the heck out of it. Even if its comes out being weak, thematically is just too good.

And probably as shown here with a couple of talents it would be doable. And maybe a couple of hybrid agility-spirit sets?

Just allow me to play Kharazim from HoTS here and I won't play anything more. Supports for life. turtle_in_love_head

Ulukay
Posts: 60

Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Ulukay » Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:52 am

I think it's worth making a switchable talent in the discipline branch that would give some advantage in close combat (dodge, attack, or whatever), but would not allow the use of spells that require cast time or channel. Similar to how Shadowform's talent works. And also think about adding talent to the skill of using weapons - a staff, a club, brass knuckles.
That is, make a melee fighter with the ability to use only instant spells.
Make "Power Infusion" as a stance, "Mental Strength" giving an increase in attack strength (for example) and possibly change "Force of Will".

I really want to play as a monk, but unfortunately, it's not done well at the moment.

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Wilsonsds
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Re: Discipline Priest rework idea.

Post by Wilsonsds » Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:03 am

Hello everyone

I spent some time thinking and came with some ideas, them i mixed with some that were discussed above. So for starters, one thing that i didnt change was almost any of the priest disc talents save one (improved inner fire).

At the chart bellow the blank spots are the spaces where there are no skill, the occupied spots are where the arrows from the trees are and the Disc Talent is where the discipline skills are (save for power infusion, that i moved to botton right.

01 TO 05 SKILL ----| BLANK SPOT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | BLANK SPOT |
06 TO 10 SKILL ----| DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |
11 TO 15 SKILL ----| BLANK SPOT | DISC TALENT | OCCUP. SPOT | DISC TALENT |
16 TO 20 SKILL ----| DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |
21 TO 25 SKILL ----| BLANK SPOT | BLANK SPOT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |
26 TO 30 SKILL ----| BLANK SPOT | BLANK SPOT | DISC TALENT | OCCUP. SPOT |
31 TO 35 SKILL ----| BLANK SPOT | BLANK SPOT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |

So the new monk skills will be placed where the Blank spots are.

01 TO 05 SKILL ----| scared_turtle_head 01 | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | wary_turtle_head 02 |
06 TO 10 SKILL ----| DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |
11 TO 15 SKILL ----| maintenance_turtle 03 | DISC TALENT | OCCUP. SPOT | BLANK SPOT |
16 TO 20 SKILL ----| turtle_in_love_head 04 | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |
21 TO 25 SKILL ----| turtle_in_love 06 | crying_turtle 05 | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |
26 TO 30 SKILL ----| turtle_tongue 07 | sad_turtle 08 | DISC TALENT | OCCUP. SPOT |
31 TO 35 SKILL ----| angry_turtle 09 | insidious_turtle 10 | DISC TALENT | DISC TALENT |


First all priest would have to start with a new Autoattack, called Martial Strike autoattack.

Martial Strike autoattack

It is an autoattack that uses only your unnarmed attacks while still holding a weapon in your character. Your base attack DPS will not be based on the weapons, but your unnarmed skill, attack power and auras. Then will depend upon class balance if the weapon procs would happen or not, even while using Martial Strike Autoattack.

scared_turtle_head 01 - Way of the fist

This talent increases unnarmed skill to help with the hit on unnarmed attacks (using Martial Strike autoattack and unnarmed autoattack) and give a chance to proc a hability called Mixed Attack (while weapon attack, i mean, normal autoattacks may also procs but with lower % on hit)

Mixed Attack

Will do yellow damage and will count as an unnarmed attack (even if you have an weapon eqquiped). The objective of the "Way of the fist" is to make sure that the monk will have a decent +hit on his attacks for the lack of cloth items with unnarmed skill bonus and cloth items with +hit. The ammount of damage may depends on class balancing (but could work alike a raptor strike).

Its a 5 points skill.

1 point = +02 Unnarmed skill
2 points = +04 Unnarmed skill
3 points = +06 Unnarmed skill
4 points = +08 Unnarmed skill
5 points = +10 Unnarmed skill and the Mixed Atack hability

maybe staff autoattack may work with the same % to proc a Mixed attack, sisne its a established monk weapon.

wary_turtle_head 02 - Way of the feet

This talent aim to give the monk more dodge and a nice proc: Hability called Flip: a chance on dodge, when the skill activates you need to jump, and if you do you get a bonus dodge while in air.

Its a 5 points skill.

1 point = +1 on dodge
2 points = +2 on dodge
3 points = +3 on dodge
4 points = +4 on dodge
5 points = +5 on dodge and the Flip hability.

The bonus granted by the Flip hability may be determined by class balancing.

maintenance_turtle 03 - Improved inner fire

This talent would give some of the monk's spirit (%) to his melle attack power.

Its a 5 points skill.

1 point = + 40 % of priest spirit on attack power
2 points = + 80 % of priest spirit on attack power
3 points = + 120 % of priest spirit on attack power
4 points = + 160 % of priest spirit on attack power
5 points = + 200 % of priest spirit on attack power

Some may think its a bit higher, but remember a rogue for example gets 2 AP by 1 Agility. And their gear gives AP as well above the attributes.

turtle_in_love_head 04 - Outter Fire

This talent gives some of the monlk's spirit(%) to his stamina and some armor (something about 15%).

Its a 5 points skill.

1 point = + 02 % of priest spirit on Stamina and +05% armor
2 points = + 04 % of priest spirit on Stamina and +10% armor
3 points = + 06 % of priest spirit on Stamina and +15% armor
4 points = + 08 % of priest spirit on Stamina and +20% armor
5 points = + 10 % of priest spirit on Stamina and +25% armor


Before anything be said remember that priest armor is one of the lowest, and since monk became a melle dps, it may be affected by cleaves.

turtle_in_love 06 - Keeper of the Flame

This hability would give the monk two stances where he can add fire or holy damage on his attacks, the damage would be a % of the combination of (healing bonusx1/2 + Shadow damage + spell power)x(some multiplier).

Its a 5 points skill.

1 point = + 02 % of priest (half o fHealing bonus, spell power and shadow damage bonus) on melle attacks.
2 points = + 04 % of priest (half o fHealing bonus, spell power and shadow damage bonus) on melle attacks.
3 points = + 06 % of priest (half o fHealing bonus, spell power and shadow damage bonus) on melle attacks.
4 points = + 08 % of priest (half o fHealing bonus, spell power and shadow damage bonus) on melle attacks.
5 points = + 10 % of priest (half o fHealing bonus, spell power and shadow damage bonus) on melle attacks.

I was thinking when i designed this to compensate the lack of weapons for the monk. While he is using Martial Strike autoattack

crying_turtle 05 - There is no pain

A small survability, reducing % damage for X time, i was thinking something about 2 to 5 min CD. Or instead of the % damage reduction, a hability where the next attack does no damage.

Its a 3 points skill.

1 point = - 20 secs on CD + The hability by itself.
2 points = - 40 secs on CD
3 points = - 60 secs on CD

turtle_tongue 07 - Feing Casting

The name is self explanatory, a casting where if interruped would stun the kicker. The way i think it could work was like a stance type of skill that is instant and unnoticeable, where it last for a couple secs, where you can cast anything, and this "casting" when its done does nothing, only if you are interrupted. So it becomes a guessing game if that greater heal is real or just a feing cast. The CD of feing cast could be around 1 min.

Its a 3 points skill.

1 point = - 06 secs on CD + The hability by itself.
2 points = - 12 secs on CD
3 points = - 20 secs on CD

sad_turtle 08 - Body Conditioning

+fall damage resistance, jumps slight higher and +run speed

1 point = +0,5% on moviment and jump and -10% on fall damage.
2 points = +1,0% on moviment and jump and -20% on fall damage.
3 points = +1,5% on moviment and jump and -30% on fall damage.

angry_turtle 09 - Spell monk

This hability is to give the monk a+ % (like 300%) spell costs, but the mana regen ins increased as well. This hability would give the monk a chance on casted speel give an extra Mixed Attack, that chance keeps stacking on each spell cast, until used, them goes back to the base % again. The idea is to give an extra Mixed Attack after a spell used.

Its a 1 point skill.

insidious_turtle 10 - One Punch priest

with this hability the monk have a chance to activate instantly inner focus even out of CD on a chance on hit of his melle attacks.

Its a 1 point skill.

================================================================================================
ALMOST FORGOT SKILLS 1 AND 2 ARE WITHOUT A REQUIREMENT, BUT AFTER THAT ONE IS REQUIREMENT FOR THE OTHER
3 -> 4 -> 5 AND 6.
6 -> 7 -> 9
5 -> 8 -> 10
So it almost works as a 4th spec and a smite priest cant get the lasts kills without investing in the monk skill tree]



In the end is basically what we discussed before, but i guess now is left more or less organized.


The idea is to create a melle DPS that has its uses on PVP, besides that is a mixer between instant spells and melle attacks. Sure that he could use a castingspell on his own to cast but that would be expensive. Its a melle DPS spec that can cast offensive and defensive speels.

Yeah, meme names for the skills, but i was running out of creativity

Also, the idea is the monk be able to share loot with priests

Ahh, btw i didnt boter in the calculations, if the devs find somehting usfeull i bet they will tweek it and balance it.
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Ulukay
Posts: 60

Re: Discipline Priest

Post by Ulukay » Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:51 am

The problem is that the developers most likely don't care about everything described here, so there is little sense and it is unlikely that there will be any changes. The most we can do here is to share our wishes. 😒

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Imonobor
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Re: Discipline Priest

Post by Imonobor » Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:52 am

I'm currently leveling a discipline priest and melee/wand weaving, but even with Inner Fire talented, the melee attacks just don't have enough OOMPH to be satisfying or even viable against shadow spec's damage. It seems disc monk is still a niche leveling / meme spec.
I'd love to see the Class Changes patch bring some love to melee priests, because the potential is there. This thread has some incredible suggestions. In particular, I'd love instacast procs (without having to use Hand of Edward the Odd, which is expensive, has crap stats and damage and is only available at max level).
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Tess322
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Re: Discipline Priest

Post by Tess322 » Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:14 am

Hey everyone, I have been pondering how Discipline could be made a unique spec without altering too much and still allowing 2 distinct play styles - pure smite dps, dps/heal hybrid.

Talent changes:
Discipline Tree
Row 1:
Wand Specialization 0/5
Your ranged attack power increases by 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of your spell power.


Row 2:
Silent Resolve 0/3
Reduces the threat generated by your spells by 6%/12%/20%


Improved Power Word: Shield 0/3
Increases damage absorbed by your Power Word Shield by 10%/20%/30%


Row 4:
Improved Inner fire removed.


Focused casting 0/2
Your Smite and Mind Blast have a 5%/10% chance to cause 100% of your mana regeneration to continue whilst casting for 8s.
*Smite priest is well known for its deficiency when it comes to mana, this adds a unique mana regenerative mechanic which also could be used to have more diverse gearing choices.

Row 5:
Atonement 0/1
Causes Power Word: Shield to apply a buff lasting 16s causing the target to be healed by 75% of your spell damage done. Reduces cooldown of Power Word: Shield spell by 2s.
*Atonement is nothing new but it creates an interesting gameplay unlike any other class. Whilst the 75% paired with respectable damage may seem very strong, the requirement for Power Word Shield to be cast on the targets before hand overall lowers the dps and hps of the healer making it a more sustain heal mechanic.

Reflective Shields 0/1
Causes 50% of the damage absorbed by your Power Word: Shield to reflect back at the attacker. This damage causes no threat.
*Reflective Shields was practically unusable talent, this will bump it up a bit.


Holy Tree
Row 4:
Searing Light 0/2
Increases the damage of your smite and holy fire spells by 5%/10%. Increases the critical damage done of your smite and holy fire spells by 30%/60%.
*Smite priest lacks 100% increased crit damage of other casters, this talents helps with the viability of the build.

Spell Changes:
Inner Fire charges removed.

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