What was thought process behing Thunderhead and Bloodlust?

[Keds]

The only reason I can think of, it's to support the raid, but if this was the idea, is it worth it?

Enh already has mana problems on it's own, adding two new abilities on it's rotation isn't going to help either. Doing a little research you will also realize the people aren't choosing these talents either, if the idea behind it, was to increase the shaman contribution to a raid, this isn't it nor is i fun. If you are thinking of supporting a raid, elemental can do better by bringing the same things enh does, while also bringing the damage.

In Vanilla enh shamans in raids was a meme because of its lackluster damage in PvE, nature school spells and spell hit chance and mana. Also the itemization didn't really help either.

My suggestion to help enh is not to make it a support class by adding buff to others, but increase it's pve damage potential, maybe increasing (spell)hit chance, or a proc that on 3rd or 5th hit it's a guaranteed critical hit so it can proc our Elemental Focus for more mana sustain, without giving us any more burst damage. (Something like https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=12590/felstriker from BRS)

Also give some love for the tank aspect of it so he can work as a off-tank, that way we can have more shaman participation on our raid by bringing another toolkit to it.

Also, Spirit Shield and Ancestral Guardian doesn't seem to be working properly.

[Keds]

What do you guys think about something like this? Also Bump

[Gantulga]

It's in the name: "enhancement". It isn't "self-enhancement". The spec revolves heavily around enhancing others, from improved totems to stormstrike.

It is perfectly logical to elaborate further on the support aspect and the two custom talents make perfect sense.
You can fix their PvE problems (without increasing their PvP burst) and not gouge the supportive side of the class.

If you don't like the idea of playing a support class then there are multiple, pure damage dealers to pick from.

[Karrados]

Self-enhancement would be an incredibly dumb name, so don't take it too literal when they just call it enhancement, it doesn't mean it only enhances others.

You are enhancing your weapons and yourself with the Elements by using the Weapon Enhancements and the Elemental Shields. There are Talents that improve it for yourself and Talents to improve it for everyone else.

I don't see why the Shaman shouldn't get some buffs to themself instead of more utility.

[Wrathweaver]

Hmm
1 Ancestral Knowledge
2 improved light shield and guardian totem
3 Thunderhead and the rest in restoration for example.

This is what i see from the talent tree, light shield on tank as a healer or some quick targeting method as other specs.
Damage does not fit too well in resto, but i do use thunderhead for the mana reduction as solo enh even though i should not ofc.


Love lightning shield, but Wate Shield was a yahoo moment back in the TBC day for me.
Water Shield is almost cooler than zombies or small machine guns with a huge ammo capacity.

Most people dont use improved light shield or thunderhead solo, because its not really good talent meta.
That is sadly what drives decision making of players, not gameplay but pure meta.
Not powerful enough in meta?= Skip the talent or petition to remove the spec/spell.
No removals is a decent mindset in general for any ingame class.

[Kashchei]

I personally hated the idea of loading more of shamans value into giving all of it's utility and power to other classes.

Thunderhead is a dead talent but it's fine in theory to give your shields to other targets maybe a max of 1 per shield.

Bloodlust is a terrible capstone when compared to getting elemental fury instead, the only value it has is to dump onto a tank at the start of a fight.

[Ninjerk]

I can't speak for all of the retail expansions, but shaman seem to have long suffered from not having someone design it with a coherent vision of what the class is supposed to be and how it's supposed to play. IIRC, I think it was also the least-played class for a good time.

Mage abilities just scream that someone had a very good idea of what the class is supposed to be and implemented it. The talent trees are fun to play with. Shaman don't have this to nearly that extent (and perhaps few classes compare).

[Keds]

We also have to take into consideration that literally MOST of our spells are buffs to others as well. With the changes that the turtle staff made, seems that they don't take this into account.

We need to remind ourselves that shamans have the PvP burst damage JUST because of one spell only, Windfury. But we can't hinder the Enhn PvE damage just because of this. I'm sure that they can figure something out without making yet another buff based spells to others or making us OP in PvP.

Also another way of seeing it, is to just looking at the currently endorsement of the talents they added.

[Gantulga]

I personally hated the idea of loading more of shamans value into giving all of it's utility and power to other classes.

Thunderhead is a dead talent but it's fine in theory to give your shields to other targets maybe a max of 1 per shield.

Bloodlust is a terrible capstone when compared to getting elemental fury instead, the only value it has is to dump onto a tank at the start of a fight.

Thunderhead provides additional damage when used on the tank and has PvP uses. It enables a unique interaction for a single talent point which is good. The issue is that the threat from the shield goes towards the caster and not the target. This should be changed while giving lightning shield a cooldown when cast on another target.
Bloodlust both helps with threat generation and you can coordinate with a beefy melee DPS to use it during a burst phase, making you even more liked.

Both are good and interesting talents. The actual issue is the fact that Bloodlust can be, and is picked by healer shamans because most of the resto tree is hot garbage.

[Stinkyjames]

I personally hated the idea of loading more of shamans value into giving all of it's utility and power to other classes.

Thunderhead is a dead talent but it's fine in theory to give your shields to other targets maybe a max of 1 per shield.

Bloodlust is a terrible capstone when compared to getting elemental fury instead, the only value it has is to dump onto a tank at the start of a fight.

Thunderhead provides additional damage when used on the tank and has PvP uses. It enables a unique interaction for a single talent point which is good. The issue is that the threat from the shield goes towards the caster and not the target. This should be changed while giving lightning shield a cooldown when cast on another target.
Bloodlust both helps with threat generation and you can coordinate with a beefy melee DPS to use it during a burst phase, making you even more liked.

Both are good and interesting talents. The actual issue is the fact that Bloodlust can be, and is picked by healer shamans because most of the resto tree is hot garbage.

What is with this constant cope of forcing shamans to enhance everyone but themselves? even with this talent its a giant cost to use max rank shield.

Stop it with the constant crap of forcing a shaman to be useless by himself.