Worgens as a Neutral Race

[Ryo3000]

Suggesting new races to be added to the game seems to be a hot topic, but people being unsure what to add as to maintain balance to both sides and the issue of the difficulty in creating brand new models. I figured Worgen belonging to both sides would sort of address both of these issues, as their models do exist and they were introduced in Cataclysm as playable.

From a lore perspective this would be a heavy deviation of Retail WoW, but i don't imagine that as a bad thing, all that's really needed is a disgruntled group of GIlneans to want to not be under the control of Genn anymore and as luck have it there was already such a group.

Darius Crowley started the North Gate rebellion even prior to the Worgen curse running rampant in Gilneas, he has multiple reasons to dislike Genn and challenge his orders.

• Crowley was ignored when he insisted Gilneas should send a meaningful force in the second war.
• He then was ignored when he pleaded Genn to remain in the original Alliance.
• The small force ont he third war was met with the displeasure of Genn.
• When the wall was built, his lands were left out of protection and he wasn't compensated for it.
• He was then arrested due to the rebellion and only set free being ordered to go fight worgens.
• Crowley might not even be aware that the worgens he was killing were once fellow gilneans.

If we change the bit where Crowley offers himself and the rebels as bait and instead they're sent/tricked to be bait by Lord Godfrey to aid in the escape of the royal family, it wouldn't be unthinkable that Darius would be incredibly pissed at Genn Greymane.

Following through to the part where the night elves help the citizens to control their curse, where Genn reveals he's been a worgen all along and was getting helped by Belysra to keep it under control.

So many people would have a problem with this.

The king has been lying for months about his curse, he's been getting help from an outsider after preaching isolationism and more important than anything he knew there was a way to contain the curse all along and kept it solely to himself while still ordering the execution of cursed Gilneans that maybe could've been saved.

Crowley can just lay it all on Genn and decide to leave the kingdom then and there, he can eventually contact Jaina seeking shelter for him and the refugees that decided to leave Gilneas, she can be unsure what to do but she also literally fought alongside the new Horde, she knows Thrall and Cairne. It might not be the most pleasant option to Darius, but what else can he do at this point? March his survivors to Lordareon and be buddies with Sylvanas?

Being transported by ships or magic, where would we put these refugees? Who would be able to help them control the beast within? Clearly the Tauren, initiate them on the path of the great hunt, help them find balance using their shamanistic and druidic magic same as the night elves did.

Crowley leading the refugees that yearn for freedom and are seen as "monsters" fit the horde so well, they're not burdened by kings and nobility so much as they're held on their honor.

And even if Crowley only sees this arrangement as temporary and intend to one day return to Gilneas, that suits the Horde just fine as well.

[Kefke]

Even without changing the original self-sacrifice, I would imagine that he could still wind up pretty pissed upon finding out that there was a way to save the people he was being sent out to slaughter. For the rest, I feel like you present some good lore reasons for this to work. Though, on the flip side of the coin, Gilneas is slated to be visitable in the next patch, and I'm not sure how much of this would clash with what Turtle has already gotten prepared (on the other hand, that might make this the perfect time to introduce playable Worgen, as we are just now seeing the lands they would be coming from).

[Totuga]

10

[Whalemilk]

No furries

[Kefke]

No furries

(Looks at your profile pic and squints.)

[Whalemilk]

No furries

(Looks at your profile pic and squints.)

Got me there hahaha

[Karrados]

I said it once and I will say it again: Worgen should not be playable by any Faction. The people of Gilneas should have been "wiped out" as a few cursed Soldiers managed to slip past the wall during their retreat and they started infecting people one by one.

The only thing that should await us past the walls is a very hostile zone to both factions with a small camp of survivors that managed to secure a Village where they are waiting for any help from the outside, be it Alliance or Horde.

Would you be picky about who saves you if you were surrounded by Furry Con Regulars?

[Reploidrocsa]

I always thought a missed opportunity to be a slave race of forsaken: they start capturing them and with the help of warlock from the shadow council they begin to transfer forsaken souls into worgen bodies, so those are loyal to the horde. For the public image, they're a group of sentient werewolves who seek the aid because their own kin wishes to exterminate them.

On the other hand, the ones who still retain some sentience realizes this problem is way too big for them so they reach the alliance kingdoms to help erradicate those abominations wearing the skins of their fellow comrades

[Ashstache]

I always thought it would be cool if worgen were counted as demons and could be enslaved by warlocks, or even gained as permanent pets.

Non-feral worgen with sentience are stinky, though.

[Mac]

Reminder:
Worgen aren't furry english speaking werewolves
They are purebreed worgen from another dimension, bought into this world by the scythe of Elune.

Cataclysm's worgen are a disgusting retcon.

Keep worgen as they are and have always been. Remove retcon quests.

This has been your lore friendly reminder

It is a great questline. I recomend doing it.

This isn't the lore, though. In Vanilla, there are two types of worgen in Vanilla: the ones summoned to Azeroth (by Arugal as well as the Scythe of Elune), and humans who have been cursed and transformed into worgen (such as the people of Pyrewood).

However, a lot of the stuff that the OP mentions, like Darius Crowley, has nothing to do with Vanilla and is not the lore. But it still stands that the worgen curse is Vanilla lore.

[Jongyi]

Vanilla-style worgen with wearable armors for alliance and ogres for horde are always good theme.
I guess turtle already have the models somewhat ready as they showcase on one of the threads.

[Ravenstone]

This isn't the lore, though. In Vanilla, there are two types of worgen in Vanilla: the ones summoned to Azeroth (by Arugal as well as the Scythe of Elune), and humans who have been cursed and transformed into worgen (such as the people of Pyrewood).

When in Worgen form the people of Pyrewood still attack anyone and everyone. They are a separate enough distinction as you say, but Worgen can never be friendly or neutral, at least not enough to introduce as a playable race.

The factions are never going to be balanced, but it shouldn't really matter even if they aren't since most things are cross faction, PvP being the only important exception there. It would be better to add something lore friendly and more complete to the Horde than doing a half arsed job with two buggy races.

[Galendor]

This isn't the lore, though. In Vanilla, there are two types of worgen in Vanilla: the ones summoned to Azeroth (by Arugal as well as the Scythe of Elune), and humans who have been cursed and transformed into worgen (such as the people of Pyrewood).

When in Worgen form the people of Pyrewood still attack anyone and everyone. They are a separate enough distinction as you say, but Worgen can never be friendly or neutral, at least not enough to introduce as a playable race.

The factions are never going to be balanced, but it shouldn't really matter even if they aren't since most things are cross faction, PvP being the only important exception there. It would be better to add something lore friendly and more complete to the Horde than doing a half arsed job with two buggy races.

Pyrewood villagers are sane and Alliance-friendly in human form. What could stop them in searching for a cure or, at least, taming the beast inside?
And don’t forget about dalaran wizard Alphus Wordwill from Lands of Conflict who is searching for cure too.
Combine them - and you'll have a great starting experience for a playable race.

[Jongyi]

Ogre for Horde race as ogres theme fit perfectly with the horde
And worgen for alliance. Like Galendor pointed out, there is nothing stopping some wizards finding cure for Pyrewood and gilnean worgen.
Plus someone has already show ogre and worgen models with wearable armors in one of these threads

[Galendor]

Plus someone has already show ogre and worgen models with wearable armors in one of these threads

It was Kazgrim - and, AFAIK, he doesn't work on Turtle WoW.

[Jongyi]

Plus someone has already show ogre and worgen models with wearable armors in one of these threads

It was Kazgrim - and, AFAIK, he doesn't work on Turtle WoW.

Ah, i thought he was somehow associated with dev team.
My bad
Would be cool if devs asked his permissions and use his models as playable races though

[Ravenstone]

Well a cure would presumably render them human, which could already be roleplayed. Taming the beast en masse or in any sizeable number seems like a joke in my mind and doesn't do justice to an ancient god. Short of going out and beating the shit out of Goldrinn in a raid to somehow weaken their feral instincts so Worgen could be introduced in a later patch would be deeply unsatisfying, much like retail WoW lore.

[Karrados]

Cata Worgen and the "Cure" are a retcon and a terrible one at that. The Worgen Form is untameable and that is why it was "Forbidden" by the Druids.

If Druids cannot hope to Master that Form then there should not be a Cure to make it tameable either. The moment you go down that route is the moment you want Cata / Retail apparently. Keep Worgen Wild and Untameable.

[Mac]

Well a cure would presumably render them human, which could already be roleplayed. Taming the beast en masse or in any sizeable number seems like a joke in my mind and doesn't do justice to an ancient god. Short of going out and beating the shit out of Goldrinn in a raid to somehow weaken their feral instincts so Worgen could be introduced in a later patch would be deeply unsatisfying, much like retail WoW lore.

It wouldn't necessarily have to turn them back to mere humans, though. Galendor brings up Alphus Wordwill from Lands of Conflict. Here's the exact quote from him (emphasis mine):

Only one place in all of Lordaeron bears traces of this strange curse: the fortress of Shadowfang Keep and nearby Pyrewood Village in Silverpine Forest. I believe that this curse is somehow tied to the moon. When the full moon rises, those afflicted by this curse undergo a transformation, turning into strange, man-wolf hybrid creatures. This transformation is mental as well as physical; the worgen, if I may call them that, desire to hunt, slay and eat. No matter their dispositions as humans during the day, at night under the full moon these individuals are bloodthirsty monsters. This begs the question as to what can be done with them. Are we morally correct in eliminating them, as they are a danger to all mortals? I do not believe so; rather, I believe we should find a cure. If possible, this cure would not prevent the transformation, it would do more – it would preserve the afflicted individual's mindset after the transformation. Such an effect would allow good-hearted worgen to take on fearsome physical abilities and use these against the Forsaken, the Scourge and other evil powers. Given proper funding and support, I believe that I could create such a cure.

The cure Alphus Wordwill is looking for wouldn't turn them human but rather turn them into "good-hearted" worgen. And while the canonicity of the RPG books is debatable (they were only declared non-canon post-Vanilla due in large part to all the retcons introduced by the various expansions), the idea that there could be a cure that tames the beast without removing the beast is a legitimate idea that existed during Vanilla, and not a "retcon" that was developed only in later expansions.

[Totuga]

I love this community
Laughing and enjoying this thread a lot.
Looking at you, antifurry pandaren xD

That said, No.
Worgen with a cure would need to start at around level 30 when first created.
Worgen, 10 years after the crowning in WC3:FT (which is when WoW begins), has no cure.
So, adding a cure would break the lore/timeline.

Has blizzard done that before? Yes, with malfurion and illidan, and look how bad it was.

I'm cool with TWoW adding coherent races, but worgen having a cure, and therefore, becoming a playable race, would disrupt the timeline on silverpine, SFK and if we get very nitpicky, winterspring.

Besides, Alliance is fine as it is. They have the best race, let the horde have one more race.

In all seriousness,a horde is a horde. It makes no sense that a whole horde has the same amount of races that a simple alliance. Even during WC3 the orcish (pre durotar) horde had more races than any other.

[Jambiya]

If we ever did get a neutral race, I’d always thought it would be goblins all things considered.

[Ashstache]

I am willing to pay money to prevent playable worgen from happening honestly

[Mac]

I am willing to pay money to prevent playable worgen from happening honestly

How much?

[Kefke]

If we ever did get a neutral race, I’d always thought it would be goblins all things considered.

I think that would make the most sense.

[Noce]

id rather see worgens as part of some druid quest to get a new form or make a feral dps form. if made a quest like thing then make it like u get more dps in cost of health. mbe a execute thing. u gain burst dmg but u lose portion of health for duration, reduce heal or smtn like that.

for new races or such, i could see and it makes sence that goblins turn to be in both factions, why they only pick a horde side in 1st place. then those pandas, tuskars, ursas would make good choice for new playable races for both factions. mbe ursas for aliance only. not to mention a gr8 injustice to ogres not being in game from start. honorable mentions for satyrs and nagas.

[Kazgrim]

[Fishi]

Would much rather see far-spread vermin races such as naga, gnoll, razormane, or maybe even centaur playable first, and also unfortunately with the correct lore, though roleplaying as as someone inflicted with the worgen curse would be very interesting, playable sentient worgen kind of don't really exist.

[Mac]

Just a thought, but what if worgen weren't a race at all, but rather a sub-race that other races could opt into? It is a curse after all.

You'd start a long quest line where you explore the worgen lore, maybe forced to fork over some gold and expensive items, maybe forced to do some dungeons and kill some baddies. More precisely, the quest line could have you helping Alphus Wordwill (Dalar Dawnweaver for the Horde) develop a cure for those under the curse of the worgen. On the final step of this long quest line, you're warned that completing it will afflict your character with the curse of the worgen (within the quest, Alphus/Dalar asks you to become cursed yourself in order to test the cure, which will free your mind of the effects of the curse but not remove the curse entirely). If you accept and proceed, your character loses one or more of their racial abilities. Humans, Orcs, and so on might lose their weapon specializations. Others like Forsaken might lose Will of the Forsaken. The racial they'd be giving up should be something significant.

In exchange, you'd get the worgen racial ability to transform into a worgen, which could give something like a 5 or 10% increase to spell casting and attack speed but at the cost of draining your mana/rage/energy (or maybe health, but it would have to do so in a way that also didn't break crowd control effects on you).

Additionally, upon completing the quest and becoming a worgen, you'd take a significant hit to all your faction reputations, although not to the point where you'd be at war or unfriendly with any of them.

Something to consider.

[Galendor]

id rather see worgens as part of some druid quest to get a new form or make a feral dps form. if made a quest like thing then make it like u get more dps in cost of health. mbe a execute thing. u gain burst dmg but u lose portion of health for duration, reduce heal or smtn like that.

for new races or such, i could see and it makes sence that goblins turn to be in both factions, why they only pick a horde side in 1st place. then those pandas, tuskars, ursas would make good choice for new playable races for both factions. mbe ursas for aliance only. not to mention a gr8 injustice to ogres not being in game from start. honorable mentions for satyrs and nagas.

Keep in mind that in Vanilla lore there's no connection between worgens and druids. Wa have no Cataclysm lore here (at least, as I know).

[Andromath]

Vanilla Lore where the Worgen are concerned is a bit curious.

They came from another dimension where they, 'fought the lords of the verdant flame,' if I'm recalling the lore from back then correctly. However, an artifact belonging to Elune is what enables them to come to Azeroth, suggesting they have some sort of connection to the Moon Goddess. Of course, Elune herself isn't exactly the Goddess of snuggles and butterfly-kisses, but at the same time it's curious that a race of savage monsters more interested in slaughter than the traditional three F's (Feasting, Fighting, and you know what else), would be connected to her.

I wouldn't mind seeing Worgen made playable in Turtle WoW, although I'm not sure there is a satisfactory way to explain it from a story perspective without some sort of direct intervention by Elune. The thing with that, is that the Scythe of Elune already alludes to that happening, almost making it seem as if Elune is either unable, or unwilling to extend herself further on their part.

If they were made playable, perhaps they'd fit in best as a kind of, 'prestige,' race. There are a number of races which seem like they'd have fit that mold, such as the Draenei/Eredar. That said, I don't know if something like that would really feel, 'Vanilla,' either, which seems like it would be counter-intuitive to Turtle WoW's goals of Vanilla+.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they were an alternative form for Moonkin. Given Balance's moon themes, a wolf-man howling at the moon and blasting people with moon-fire seems appropriate. As others have stated, however, there was never any solid connection between Worgen and Druids until Cataclysm. All we had until then were extrapolations from the, 'Lords of the Emerald Flame,' or what not.

Just to wrap up with my two coppers:

If they add worgen, great! I don't see myself playing one, but I'm sure some people will be happy.
If they don't add worgen, great! I don't see myself playing one.